SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OH man CO...

Guys and Girls....

She's something else..

Sounds like there's lots more going on here than we imagined...

She's a master at this game..

She didn't make a mistake..

She's disgusting in my opinion.

SO sorry...

'Beware the fury of a patient man'

John Dryden was right.

A single, dedicated man is nearly impossible to stop. And one who waits a long time before exacting revenge is even harder – the target never knows that it’s coming.

(((CO)))

I hope you go see that lawyer ASAP.. Get those ducks lined up. You are going to be swimming knee deep in crap real soon. I don't see anyway she is going to be able to explain away the nightie let alone those emails.

Just WOW is all I have to say.

Please take care of you. We are here for you.

boundaries on the dvd's and emails, she was was down the slippery slope, way past appropriate boundaries...

My fww did this too, a few months before her PA started. They are really testing themselves, thinking they still aren't over the line, since the PA may not have begun, but get the thrill. She is trying to titulate him.

I wouldn't take the reference to women seriously, chances are she is throwing stuff out there to keep him interested. He is pushing back (butter? Are we talking anal sex/Last Tango in Paris?).

My guess is the affair went physical very quickly after those emails, if it wasn't already an affair.

Also, she seems to be aware you are onto her. She may be monitoring you...

Hang in there. Take breaks from the detective work, and mind torture, ad channel it into working out, doing things that build up your esteem.

CO, Sparky brings up some valid points and would explain to me why your wife seems to always be ahead of the curve.

Maybe you are to focused on spying on her and not paying any mind to her spying on you!

big 2 x 4

Something about your approach, CO, doesn't seem right.

So many people are saying how they admire your patience. Every time I read that, I get a check and a strange feeling.

What is bothering me is that I am now having a difficult time believing that you love your WW or want to salvage your M. I am beginning to believe that you hate our W, and this has turned into a game for you. I believe that you think that to win, you have to wait until your WW has violated as many boundaries of your M as possible, and that you must have evidence to prove every single thing when it is over.

While you are gathering evidence and waiting, she is getting deeper and deeper into her dark world of infidelity….and so are you. You have been reading her email for about a year, and many of them have indicated real violations of your M boundaries. Yet you wait….for what? To see how far WW will go? Really, what would it take for you to say, “Enough is enough?”

While you wait in secret, you have shown photographs of your WW’s soiled panties to the world….and they didn’t have semen in them….they were just soiled. Had you confronted WW and exposed OM after you were sure the emails were inappropriate, you might not have ever tested her panties... much less shown them to strangers. But you might have had to do it anyway…

The problem is, as long as you remain silent, you have no chance at the A ending, or R and beginning to rebuild your M.

The A is just getting more and more nasty, W is going farther and farther down wrong path, your M is getting more and more damaged, and you are standing by, watching her….hoping not to stop her from destroying herself and her M, but to catch her at her worst….whatever that may be by the time you decide to turn on the light and expose the A.

You already know she is having an A. You are just waiting and watching as her A and your M get more and more sordid....yet you wait, watch, and listen...doing nothing to stop it from getting worse, all the while knowing that the time you're giving the A is akin to giving WW more rope with which to hang herself.

Is this admirable? I'm still scratching my head trying to understand why this is admirable.

Act now, before more damage to the M has been done, and before your W has done things that you consider unforgiveable....or tell us that WW has already passed the point of no return with regards to you and your M, and you want all the extra evidence so you don't feel silly D'ing over a few emails.

(Mods, please let me know if I have said something inappropriate and if I should delete this post.)

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 1:13 PM, April 29th (Friday)]

HurtingHopeful,

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.

When I confronted, I felt certain that my evidence would be more than enough to extract a confession on the spot with blubbering, snot slinging, and a river of tears. After all, I had read more than 125 emails that were EXTREMELY similar to Onions's evidence. Sure, none described detailed intercourse positions, but like onion's WW, all the emails were carefully written to either insinuate something, or screamed of an underlying message.

To my surprise, instead of a blubbering confession, I received complete denial. Admitting to only being silly and sending inappropriate emails. I had failed to consider that both FWW and OM were journalist majors in school and could send more underlying insinuations and secret implications than I would ever be able to decipher.

My earlier post explains the details that followed.

Point is - Onion's WW will more than likely deny everything.

Then Onions is forced to decide whether to stay or go based on what he knows, suspects, and can prove.

Would any of us end a M based on a few suggestive emails? No! We would demand NC. But then what?

Like Onions, I needed to know if there was a PA, and specifically if there was intercourse...

That was just WHAT I needed, my personal line in the sand. Problem was, FWW knew that would be my line in the sand and was determined I would never know enough to make an informed decision.

Thus, she was always in control, by controling the information.

Sure, 2 years after dday under heavy duress she finally admitted to receiving oral sex from OM.

To this day, almost 4 yrs later - I DO NOT know if that is all the truth or not.

Sure, we are somewhat reconciled... But is it because I am in the DARK?

Maybe...

stillnpain and CO

I just was posting my opinion. I could be way off base in this instance, but there have been many times here on SI when I have had a gut feeling and not written it, only to have someone else write it for me, and then have others jump on the band wagon. I thought I'd stick my neck out this time, and post my gut feeling to CO.

Here's where I'm coming from: there was no sex in my H's EA, and it lasted only 2 weeks before he decided he wanted to end our M to M OW. Sex doesn't have to happen for boundaries to be violated, and for a M to be (almost) ruined.

Onions, is intercourse your line in the sand like stillnpain said it is his? Maybe that is where I am lost. To me, any personal relationship where intimate things are spoken about whether in person or via email is my line in the sand. Now that H did it once, if it ever happens again, H knows that I'll be done, and I won't look back.

Just saying to Onion...what are you willing to endure and become before you decide WW has violated M enough for you to draw a line in the sand and give her a chance to redeem herself before she completely destroys your M?

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 2:01 PM, April 29th (Friday)]

It seems to me that Chopping knows the rules of classical tragedy instinctively - the rope that WW may hang herself on is not his to give - he knows that.

BS here....

I would like to share my thoughts. I've been following this thread as well and want to somewhat agree with HurtButHopeful.

I don't know but at times it all seems a bit strange to me.

I understand that everyone has their own story and their own way of dealing with things but this waiting and watching I don't understand.

The following e-mail would have done more than raised my eyebrow.

OM: Thanks for the document. Did you attach yourself to it? That would be great, so I can enjoy you!

WW: I wish. Good night.

The next two e-mails are shocking/appalling ....

OM: YOU are the best!

OM: LOL! You are really something. <p>

WW: I am sad...I am patiently waiting for (our upcoming meeting overseas) so that I can get a big HUG.

OM: That's all you want?!

WW: I always knew you were a mind reader..I will think of more. A big sloppy X.

OM: I could say what I think about you!

WW: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I mean what more do you need?????

This is so bad I can't believe you don't see it and want to stop it. These e-mails are so very wrong, so disrespectful and hurtful towards you and your marriage.

If I had found the e-mails from my WH sooner ( his e-mails were much less incriminating than yours )I could have possibly stopped the EA from turning into a PA.

Now, I did not find them in time but I did confront him right away. He denied it, I did not believe him and told him to leave. I was so hurt, sad, angry etc. but not willing to give up just yet. I let him come back and we talked this thing to death but.....I started checking everything and anything. Yes, it was a very difficult time (he was still denying an affair)

One thing though.....at that time I had not found the SI forum yet.

You have found this great forum and have gotten a lot of support and information on what to look for and ask for (Passwords etc.)

All I had was those e-mails and that they were with a co-worker. I searched and searched and when I found something I showed it to him but he played it off, made up a story, got angry etc.

I did not let up though and he finally broke down....it was too much for him to live with these lies.

The same thing can happen with your wife. It took from Sept. to Dec. to have him confess. It may not play out the same way with you but I feel you are losing more by waiting.

The longer this goes on the more resentful you will get.

How long can you go on pretending? You can't possibly be as loving and caring etc. towards your wife knowing that she wrote those things. Also, don't you want to know how she really feels? This is your marriage, your family, your life and you have a right to know. Aren't you worried that if this goes further that your health could be at risk? How can that work in your favour?

Either you are very, very good at pretending (but it must eat at you deep inside) or you are somewhat different and she is going to notice your change in bahavior.

Clearly there is something going on with your wife that you were unaware of and which now affects your marriage. Wy not start and find out what it is so you two can fix it.

Thank you for listening.

(Mods, same goes for me, please let me know if I stepped out of line posting this.)

Maybe we should cut CO some slack.

He's a SAHM, gave up what I assume was a very lucrative position to help out more with raising his DD and at present his WW has him somewhat over the barrel because of his employment situation and her activities.

He has to get more "ducks" in row than most because of his situation.

Lastly, he doesn't need me to toot his horn for him, his actions do that aptly enough.

CO

I might have missed it: Was the decision that you be a SAHD a joint decision? Did you two talk about the financial impact? Social consequences?

This might sound sexist but there is a real issue with men being at home. It takes a very confident husband to accept this role because (unfortunately) society often doesn’t acknowledge it. People think you do this because you were fired, can’t handle the pressure of work etc. – it’s something forced on you rather than a choice. There is also the issue of the woman not seeing the husband in a masculine light because he’s focusing on these “soft” issues. Have you two ever discussed these things? I suggest you open that discussion. It sounds as if your marriage can do with better communications.

CO – Don’t go looking for other affairs. I don’t see your comments to the OM as a coming out message. It’s too farfetched that she is confiding with her lover about her lesbian affairs with other women… It’s like a plot from a porno. Like I already said: I think there is something going on based on what you have posted BUT like my teacher at the police academy often said:

“When you hear the beating of hooves in the night you think horses, not zebra’s”

We hear the beating of hooves and time and time again we have seen the horses that make that noise. When you post your evidence and the e-mails we expect to find infidelity - but maybe this time it might be something different. That’s all I’m suggesting you do; be willing to have an open mind to what might be causing the marital issues.

OK, no one here needs to apologize or feel they have to couch their words in this thread, at least not to me. I really welcome all opinions. I can take it, no worries. I don't think anything disrespectful has been said, and it's good to have "second opinions" all around. I know you all have good intentions.

First off, with regard to the apparent "new taste in girls" comment from WW, I don't put too much stock into it as far as acting that out. It might be a fantasy of hers, or perhaps she's trying to be titillating to OM. It's an issue to address, obviously, but I'm more concerned about her sharing those details with him than the actual content of the message.

What is bothering me is that I am now having a difficult time believing that you love your WW or want to salvage your M. I am beginning to believe that you hate our W, and this has turned into a game for you. I believe that you think that to win, you have to wait until your WW has violated as many boundaries of your M as possible, and that you must have evidence to prove every single thing when it is over.

HurtButHopeful, I have to disagree with your assessment. I think stillinpain's comments are more in line with my thinking. I certainly don't hate her. I'd say that I'm pretty angry though about what she is doing. I don't at all see this as a game that I'm trying to win, rather something I have to do for my own peace of mind, and as stated repeatedly here, to minimize the flurry of lies and deception after confrontation. Knowing my wife, I feel that she would have least to lose by adamantly denying any PA. I think it's much easier for a WS to minimize an EA, mainly because there's always room for interpretation ("just friends", "kidding around", "it's not what I meant"), and some might say it isn't "going all the way" with an affair. Of course we know better.

I never put her panties up for viewing, only a piece of blotting paper with reagent on it, mainly to get assistance with interpretation of the test result.

I personally feel that R is more feasible if the truth is known to both parties. That doesn't mean that I think I may get all the truth, but if I confront with what I have, and she says it was only an EA (when really a PA was going on), then little is left in the open to deal with amicably and I will always have a lingering doubt.

This is not to say that I am NEVER going to confront her if I don't have proof of a PA. I will set a deadline, or deal with it when I feel comfortable that I've exhausted my options.

I don't think it's admirable in any way. Nothing about infidelity is. I honestly don't want to be dealing with this crap. Like anyone else here, I'd rather be enjoying life to its fullest and not be burdened with betrayal. I'm not comfortable with this any more than what many of you are feeling about this situation. I very much regret that I wasn't paying close attention to what was going on, and now that I am, I at least feel the need to get as much data as I can while I have even a bit of tactical advantage.

Once she knows all the details that I have, those doors of opportunity will probably close fast.

There are other "regular life" issues on the schedule that make confrontation at this time a bad one. Not that there ever is a good time for this, but maintaining the status quo, at least for a short while, is far better than having to deal with those other issues simultaneously. This is certainly not my deciding factor, however.

I know that I could pretty easily end this affair any time. I'm sure a single email to the BW would do it. WW and OM are thousands of miles away, and there's little chance of them being in the same place in the next several months. Since the damage is already done, I would rather take a bit of time to quietly gather more information.

[This message edited by ChoppingOnions at 1:44 AM, April 30th (Saturday)]

Thanks for your gracious response, CO. I know my bluntness is confrontational at least to some, and insulting at most to others.

and she says it was only an EA ,

and

Since the damage is already done, I would rather take a bit of time to quietly gather more information.

So on your side, even if it is only an EA, the damage is already done. You only want to get more proof to try to force her to admit the PA. Do I understand you right?

If she never admits the PA, and the damage is done, are you going to remain M to a woman who you know had a PA, just because she didn’t admit it, and hate yourself for the rest of your life for staying?

I might be jumping the gun by going there, but I am trying to figure out why your waiting and your need for more proof matter in the long run of your M?

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 9:54 PM, April 29th (Friday)]

I heart goes out to you CO. Your story has a lot of echoes for me and my situation with my FWW. I hacked access to my FWW email account "building a case" so-to-speak. For me it was as simple as guessing her PW.

It's different for everyone; but really, how much do you really need to know? How much further can she and OM go? In hindsight, in my case I think I held on too long with the spying. What I had found out through her emails NEVER seemed to cease shocking me. It was bewildering, in that I didn't want to believe it, but there it was. It also made it harder for me to see the problems in our own marriage (and I'm not saying in ANY way that it is your fault, because it's not). The best thing I ever did was confront her, tell her I knew everything, and tell her it was over. It was really because I just became too disgusted, not only with her, but myself. I kicked her out, I started living my life and things started looking up for me. I was able to focus on taking care of myself because I did not have the emails to distract me. We were cordial and even friendly at times for our limited interactions after that. Eventually, several months later she asked to come home after she got sick. Now 1 1/2 years from DDay, we're in R, but I still think about whether I am better off trying to do it on my own.

Didn't you say OM was from another town? I know for me, one of the best things I did was write a short one sentence "f*ck you" email to him. (Another thing I wish I had done sooner). I know people have a lot of differing opinions on contacting OM. But if you have a chance to reclaim yourself and/or nip the A in the bud, I would recommend going for it. You'd might feel better about it in the long run--I know I did.

CO: like many others here, I've been following your story. I remember what you first said in terms of background. "We've been a couple 18 years, married 15."

This must be a pretty hard shot to take to your identity. I have been with my W for 14 years, married 12, and I lost my sense of self when dday rolled around for me. Like many others here, I have been impressed about your ability to keep your posts calm. Your profession must have taught you to bite your tongue until it bleeds.

It's a hard road that you are on and I wish you the best.

One thought: I recall you expressed frustration that you had not caught on to this sooner. I felt that way in my own situation once, but no more. Maybe you will never trust again, but you were not foolish or stupid to trust your W. Who else but your spouse should always have your back, should always have your best interests at heart? Are we to walk through life alone, always expecting the dagger from those closest and dearest to us?

Anyhow, advice is a dangerous gift. I don't envy the choices you face right now. Good luck finding your best path.

[This message edited by zenhouse at 12:40 AM, April 30th (Saturday)]

Zenhouse,

One thought: I recall you expressed frustration that you had not caught on to this sooner. I felt that way in my own situation once, but no more. Maybe you will never trust again, but you were not foolish or stupid to trust your W. Who else but your spouse should always have your back, should always have your best interests at heart? Are we to walk through life alone, always expecting the dagger from those closest and dearest to us?

Good point and wow, I think we must expect that dagger from those closest to us. It seems that is the way it happens with lots of bad things that happen to people.It always seems to be those we would least expect or suspect.

Bigger, your timing is impeccable. You always post some insightful thing right at the same time I'm posting a long diatribe.

The SAHD thing was primarily my idea. Very big changes were going on with her company at the time (which would involve added travel for her). At the same time I was getting quite burned out with my work, which I'd talked about leaving for years. The opportunity seemed right. We had discussed that probably it would be 6 months, although it's now just over a year. I happened to decide to leave my job just at the time that I found out about her correspondence with OM, which was coincidental. It was not forced on me.

Being a temporary SAHD doesn't bother me one bit, as far as being concerned what other people think. It does concern her, in the sense that she cares what her family and friends think about it. I agree with you on the issue of the "other affairs" bit likely being a non-issue. You last poignant comment is a good one, and I am keeping an open mind about things.

Hurtbuthopeful? said:

So on your side, even if it is only an EA, the damage is already done. You only want to get more proof to try to force her to admit the PA. Do I understand you right?

No, that's perhaps a secondary effect of it. Proof of a PA is far more tangible, and can't be minimized or gaslighted like an EA. If I have definitive proof, then admission becomes irrelevant. Even Bigger is questioning the validity of the evidence I have right now.

The comments "and she says it was an EA" and "since the damage is done" are both hypotheticals. I'm just saying that IF it's come to this (EA or EA/PA) then the damage is done. I don't think my evidence is as strong as some think it is.

Wavering, thanks for your story. It sounds like you probably had more proof than I, though. If I had enough details beyond the suggestive comments disguised as pseudo-professional emails, then the situation would likely be very different.

Zenhouse, I really liked your comments. You read me well. And you're right about my profession. It's also true that the dagger that comes from your apparent ally in life hurts worse than any other.

This is just a random thought-but I'm worried about you.

You just seem to have a little too much 'control' over this....

It seems *to me* that you are patiently watching your wife throw herself into another man's arms-possibly standing by while she initiates a physical affair.

Yes, more proof would be nice-but at the cost of another man having her?

I don't know-just seems worrisome to me. How are you coping? (drinking, denial?)Why are you waiting?

I haven't read all the responses-and I'm probably waaaayyyy off-but I don't know it's just...I don't know.

I have been keeping up with this thread as well, and frankly have also wondered about the ongoing control displayed. While it is admirable to be able to act that composed under the circumstances, and I often was amazed at how calm I was during the investigation period, I wonder about the long term damage it may be feeding.

Once my wife's story was finally out, it became difficult for me to start letting go of my paranoia and allow for reconcilliation. Certainly we are forever changed by these circumstances, however at some point we have to take control of our lives again, and prolonged distrust, and calm in the eye of the storm can make that transitionn even more difficult.

I went into super sleuth mode when I started suspecting something was up, but CO in my opinion has more than enough circumstanstial evidence to confront. Lingering doubt is a fact of these affairs. It seems to me that perhaps CO has been in this investigative mode for so long that he is seeking the perfect case and solution, which I think most would agree does not exist.