SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BW:

Your post got me thinking...

Yeah, why the Hell *shouldn't* you be able to have a NC legal document set up for you NOW. Not in the usual SI sense I read about, but for you and your H's peace of mind, privacy, etc. After all, you and your H seem to be very much of the same mind as I (and my huband) am.

Check into it with your attorney. Despite what many bleeding hearts advocate there is no reason, legal or other-wise, why your life and marriage has to involve the OW/OC(forget the moral issues...they didn't exist when the child was conceived anyway).The responsibility for the raising of this OC lies squarely on the shoulders of the OW, who made the decision to bear OC. H is merely a cash cow.

Incidently, I was thinking about OW/OCs last night in general. You see, my housecleaner for the past 15 years is, in fact, an OW with an OC! I was always very sympathetic to her situation (still am, to a certain degree) but now (not surprisingly and also a bit ironically) view her situation in a slightly different light.

So, I guess what I have concluded from this mini epiphany is that I do have the capacity to emphasize with OW/OC....just as long as it's not *my* OW/OC!

We will be on a family cruise for the next 10 days and I am really looking forward to it. H and I always have the warmest, happiest moments when traveling. I think I have some gypsy blood in me!

Take care guys.

Hugs to you all.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:07 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

twokidsmomny...

I do still understand that my sons have a half sibling and there will be a day that they will have to be told, but not until they are old enough to understand what happened. That I can deal with.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:07 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

2kds and always:

Don't be too fearful of telling your kids. Initially that was a HUGE issue/fear for me, but if you've followed any of my previous posts you know that it was almost a non-event in my household.

Of course, I was able to mitigate that fear almost immediateely after finding out about OW/OC due to my kids age (18 and 20).

My kids were raised in a happy, healthy and supportive environment. I'm sure yours will be also. When the time comes to tell them, they will have the maturity and emotional security to handle it. In fact, in our case I feel it was a VERY real life lesson in safe sex and the consequences of not taking precautions. I don't think this lesson would be lost on a daughter either.I believe it enabled them to view their dad as human, humble, remorseful and all the other characteristics of a good person that made a bad mistake. Our family dynamics are unchanged by this situation.

Trust that yours will remain the same also. Your kids love you, and that love will supercede their father's transgression.

Hugs.

Hi everyone,

Beetrayed, I hope that you are 100% in the moment on your vacation. I am glad that you are going to have a good time.

Twokidsmommy,

Your words are important to me also. I am glad that we are on the same page about family. Keeping my family together is the most important thing for me.

I didn't want the problems of OW/OC to harm my son or change his living situation. This is the first reason why I was able to stay with my H when I first found out about the A.

My son didn't deserve the consequence of being separated from me or his dad.

For those of you who's children don't know about OC, I want to encourage you to tell your children at some point sooner, rather than later. It is easier to deal with children and tough issues before they reach teenagehood. Teenagers have enough normal struggles, so it would be better for them to have already dealt with this issue.

My son found out in a very terrifying way when the OW called my house and he was listening on the phone. I never intended on telling my son about the situation until after oc was born. But even though this way was painful, God turned it into good for us.

We helped our son through the trauma. It has been a little over a year and now he doesn't care anymore. I am willing to converse with anyone who hasn't told their kids yet, about how my son handled if you want to PM me.

If you read Dr. Phil's website on OW/OC or Dear Peggy's, you will see that they both say that if an OC is involved you HAVE to make room for them in your marriage.

Everything I have been taught told me that my marriage is what is important. Their is danger to a marriage when it is (your own) child-focused. So

how much danger would your marriage be in if it is OW/OC focused? That is what this OW want to make WS think, that WS attention should focusesd all on this new little baby. WRONG!

I found that my H and I being stable, communicating and dealing with problems successfully is a good sign and example for my son. He has seen that through this negative event, a family can stay together and continue to respect and love each other.

I have had to counsel my son to forgive his dad. Eventually he was able to do it. He went from idealizing his dad to seeing his dad as a real person who makes mistakes and needs forgiveness too. He is in a healthy state of mind now.

[This message edited by icando at 12:47 AM, June 4th (Sunday)]

Disclaimer: This post is in no way meant to be a flame, slam, bash or offense to anyone. Please remember while reading this, that I am only stating my opinion based on what I have read on the last 4 pages of posts. I am a BS that does not have to deal with this situation, therefore please feel free to take what I am about to write with a grain of salt.

Infidelity That Begets an OC.

This is such a hard subject to contemplate, much less write about.

I couldn’t even begin to fathom the depths of a BS’s feelings in this situation. It is bad enough that our spouses have strayed from what we thought was a good M. But, to have fathered a child out of the union, whether planned, deceived or not, is one of the most hard to deal with consequences I can think of (aside from STD’s and aids of course). This means that, no matter what you would rather happen, you will most likely have the presence of the OW on the outskirts of your M for at maximum the next 18 years.

Most of the posts I have read, just from the last few days have been pretty emotional; most especially in regards to the OW. I do think it is completely unhealthy to yourself, and all involved, to keep OW bashing, when your FWS was just as culpable in the A. I know, I know, most of the whore calling is mostly to the OW while she is behaving badly after the A ended, but that doesn’t make it right. Anyway, I certainly don’t see this support thread as an OC bash, but I do have some concerns about what I have read.

I think that not being involved in a situation such as this gives me the ability to look at both sides, with an open mind, and better interpret what the actual intention of a post might have been. See, you BS’s that are going through this situation are dealing with it on an emotional level. Now, I am not saying that as if it is a bad thing, but when emotions are involved common/moral sense tends to take a bit of a back seat.

To me it appears that some of those, whom you have accused of flaming and bashing you for your opinions and statements in regard to OW/OC, were completely misconstrued. From what I have read, the comments seem mostly about the OC and the seeming lack of consideration or respect for their unasked for circumstances.

The one common theme that I have seen, just in the last 4 pages (‘cuz I couldn’t possibly read the entire thread, so many pages) is placing the entire blame for the OC on the OW. I do believe it takes two to tango, whether the OM was deceived into thinking the OW was on BC or not. Guess what, he still dipped his stick where it didn’t belong to begin with. It seems that once we decide to take our FWS back, we fully absolve them of any responsibility in the fallout from the A. I have read about WS offering to pay for the OW to abort the child they conceived. My question now would be how many of you BS’s would actually consider aborting a child? I could never even imagine being asked to do that to a child that was, moralistically right or not, conceived in what I believed was a loving relationship. I have strong feelings on the subject of abortion, so forgive me for stating my opinion. It is not intended to flame or offend anyone by any means.

So, yes the OW decided to have the child, be it for altruistic reasons or not this child still happens to be the seed of your FWS loins. Again, it still took two of them to make the child. Therefore, no matter the fact that you are moving forward with your M and wish the OC had never come into existence, the truth of the matter is, the child is there, and since the FWS had half the input to make it happen, he is truly responsible for a portion of OC welfare. It is an unconscious decision, to take the risk of a possible child, on the part of the FWS when entering into a sexual relationship. And, as we all know, abstinence is the only 100% effective method of birth control.

While it may be financially strapping to the family unit as it is now, it is still his responsibility to provide. When we, as BS’s decide that, even in the face of the upcoming birth of an OC, we want to remain in our M, we unconsciously agree to be his support for this situation. We unwittingly become a part of that equation. The FWS should be responsible; financially for sure and maybe emotionally, depending on his character.

It bothers me to think of the moral character (of lack there of) of a man, that has fathered a child, who either does not want to accept responsibility for his actions, requests the OW to have an abortion or would willingly give up his parental rights to said child. To me, this lack of moral character and fiber of being shows a flaw that just might lead him to stray again. Again, JMHO.

So, now that I have gone so completely all over the board on this one, I will get back to the main subject. While the OW might be a conniving, sneaky, poor excuse for a woman and mother in your eyes, your feelings for her should not overflow on to the OC. Believe it or not, he or she (the OC) really had no choice in the matter at all. Yes, as someone said, they are a victim as well as the BS and the marital children. They (the betrayed spouses and any children of either union), in my eyes anyway, are the victims in the whole scope of the A.

So, as much the BS’s here have complained about the amount of support their FWS have to pay to the OW, fair or not, if the situations were reversed and the FWS had left and gone to the OW, the same support would be expected, even more because of the fact that there was a marriage involved that was broken apart by the infidelity. Also, in some cases, not only is CS a given, but there is sometimes the awarding of Alimony (SS).

In closing, while the situation is unfair to you, as the BS and any marital children you may have as well as the OC, it is not just the OW who is at fault. She did have a little help getting that way. I have read the following statement, “I am not responsible for OC and will not let anyone put that responsibility on me” as well as others to the same effect. But in a way it is (joint accounts and bills and such), because you have opted to stay in your M, make it work and be a partner to your FWS. Unfortunately he is at least partially financially responsible.

Am I saying that the BS should allow the OC and OW be a part of the picture in their life from this point forward? That is not for me to say. That decision is solely up to the Husband and Wife. It is not up to the OW, or even the OC. Am I saying that the FWH has to feel that he should spend time with OC? No, that again is completely up to the FWH with the implicit agreement of the BW. However, I am saying that the FWH has an obligation, yes and obligation, to the child he fathered. Had he not been seeking sex, solace, companionship and the greener grass on the other side, the child would not have come about and you wouldn’t be in this situation, on this site or even in this thread.

[This message edited by CajunWoman at 3:40 PM, June 4th (Sunday)]

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:08 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:09 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

(((TwoKidsMommy)))

I am so sorry for offending you. It was not and never has been my intention. Like I said, it was just my take on the few pages I read. I am in no way saying that anyone's choices were wrong. Remember I said they were their choices to make. I was just mostly trying to say that the others who were being accused of flaming and bashing were merely trying to point out the seeming lack of compassion for the situation that the OC was in, through no fault of their own.

I also willingly admitted at the outset that I am not in those shoes, and that I consider this situation one of the hardest consequences to deal with as fallout or result of the A. I would never presume to say that I know how hard a decision it would be to make in regards to the OC. I am glad that I do not have to go through it, and have the utmost respect for those on this thread that are.

In the case of the father statement that you took such exception to. You should re-read it, preferrably with as open a mind as possible. I spoke specifically of those men that refuse to accept their responsibilities. I will clarify this, I did not question the moral fiber of those men who choose to have no emotional relationship with their child. I only questioned that of those who do not want to accept the financial responsibility (their's by action of sex with OW alone, which can always result in pregnancy) and those that offer to pay for the OW to have an abortion, or give up his parental rights. Those that do accept and acknowledge, whether they physically/emotionally spend time with their child or not, are the ones I consider my heroes. Not only are they remorseful and working 100% at R, they are also man enough to stand up and do what is right.

It also goes without saying that the spouse of such a man is a hero in and of herself. It takes a strong sense of self to be able to make a life out of that, given the financial and emotional issues that have and can arise.

I know I have stepped on many toes here and many of you do not agree with one word of what I said. I do humbly apologize as that was not my intent (hence my disclaimer). My fingers got a little key happy. I just wanted to say the snippit about the OC being a victim in all this too.

I also understand what you are saying about the absolution and forgiveness issue as well as that you are not using this forum to rant about him and his A. I apologize if it seemed that I was accusing anyone of that. This is just the "feel" I got from reading the posts. Again, I do truly apologize.

I have never agreed with child support laws either, as they don't fully take into account all dynamics of each person's life. Do I think it is fair that one mother continues to live in an expensive home and the courts force her AP to pay such an exorbitant amount of money in CS? Hell no. The courts are the most corrupt system I know of in this world. They have let politicians run their judgments rather than ethics and morality.

I will not be going through the courts to get CS from my FWH. He will set up a direct deposit to my bank account of a previously agreed upon amount, based on both our proposed budgets. But let me also say this, he has also stated that if he has to, he will get a second job, just to be sure that we, his D and I, can survive.

Admittedly there are always gray areas in every possible situation and circumstance. I was just giving general statements, based on what I had read. I am guilty of one main thing here and that is that I try very hard to look at things from both sides of the coin. The entire situation is untenable at best, impossible at worst. There is no black and white, no absolute right or wrong. There is only the opportunity to make the best of a bad situation while doing what is right for all involved.

Again, I am very sorry for any pain, hurt and offense I have caused.

[This message edited by CajunWoman at 8:57 PM, June 4th (Sunday)]

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:09 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

I laughed when I read cajunwoman's post. It is so predictable when people try to make you feel responsible for the actions of others.

Again, there are people in this world (we all know them) that will try and make you feel like you are responsible for something you didn't have anything to do with.

As far as staying in my marriage after the A, are you implying that I am obligated to stay OUT of my marriage because my H had a A? And by staying in my marriage I am agreeing to Come whatever whenever? I don't think so.

I understand what marriage means. It means a decision to commit and a decision to love. I won't allow anyone else to define my marriage for me. I don't have to justify or explain why I decided to stay in my marriage. Maybe everyone doesn't approach an affair from the viewpoint that the marriage has to end.

If I ended my marriage then I would have been doing it because the trifling whore wanted me to do. Why should I defer to a whore?

As for bashing OW, I am all for it and will not stop. I don't care who it offends.

OW had a daughter at age 17. Then she had 3 abortions (children by a variety of men). She told this to my H. Then she purposely planned a pregnancy by WS without his knowlege and now has an infant daughter. She is age 27 now.

So in a 10 year time span. She has 5 pregnancys. She had abortions by the other men because they weren't going to provide the gravy train for her. Why have 3 abortions until you get to a married man?

And look at her form of birth control, abortions. She is in the medical field. Talk about immorality. She doesn't mind using abortions. Although I have never felt or stated that she should have an abortion.

OC will suffer because her mother put her in this situation. She will suffer from lack of proper moral training and because she is not loved by her mother. Her mother had her to control, use and destroy my family. If she loved her child so much, she wouldn't try to destroy the father of her child. She would want her child to benefit off a relationship with him.

But her viewpoint is, if she can't have him than neither is his wife going to have him. She thinks that she is the wife and she literally wants to be me.

I can make that statement because I just recently found out that she impersonated me more than once. When I say impersonated I mean that she pretended to be me and answered questions and gained access to my personal information.

And as for holding WS responsible, you need to go back more than 4 pages and read.

[This message edited by icando at 3:05 AM, June 5th (Monday)]

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:10 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

The topic of OW/OC is a touchy one for anyone much less someone who is living it. The choice as to wether or not you bring OC into your life and family is a personal one. This is not a cookie cutter situation and the circumstances are different for everyone. I have been dealing with this situation for a little over two years. The pain is more than I can even begin to express. I offered to support my H with whatever decision that he made in regards to OC as to wether he decided to be a part of OC's life or take a backseat. I hold both H and OW responsible for the affair not OC. If I choose to be beligerent in my posts about OW that in no way clouds my mind and takes away any responsabilities from H for his actions in regards to the affair.

The people who post on this forum are venting their frustrations on dealing with this very touchy subject. Wether what is being posted is "politically correct" or not their statements are coming from a place that harbours alot of pain and they need to be able to express that without being judged.

My H recently allowed OW's H to adopt OC. He made that decision because he felt that it was the right thing to do. He did not do it because he was trying to get out of CS obligations or to avoid being a Father to OC. For those who have never been in this situation, to try to analyze the feelings that are expressed here is a waste of time and typing, although I realize that it is difficult to read things that you do not agree with if you have to start a post with a warning that it is not meant to offend and that you have never walked in the shoes of those of us who would do anything not to be here you probably should think twice before you hit submit.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:11 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

I'd like to clarify a point here:

Adoptions now take many forms. Many birthparents today (mothers, usually, but sometimes also fathers and grandparents, too) have an OPEN ADOPTION relationship with the adopting family.

Adoption does not have to mean permanent, irrevocable severing of all ties and contacts between biological family and adopted child. That does still happen but is just one choice among many available today.

So, in short, it doesn't work to make comparisons to adoption when talking about NC with OC.

Actually, adoption practices today provide interesting models of how it could be possible to have a relationship with OC without it taking over your regular family life.

That would be my preference, since I am a child advocate. But I also see that some OW are really negative and troubled people and unless you could have a third party intermediary handle all contacts related to OC, you wouldn't want contact.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 11:11 PM, June 8th (Thursday)]

This is an open adoption if OC ever wants to have a relationship with H then he would be welcomed into our family without hesitation. We have two sons ages 8 and 10 and I feel that explaining to them this situation would do more harm than good. When they are old enough to understand then we will tell them but not now.

I haven't been posting much lately but just got back from 10 days away and found all this!!

We all deal with this crappy situation in different ways and do the best we can. I for one an grateful for this forum and thread, to get ideas, information, and support!

I was away at one son's graduation and one son's wedding--what a week. And in the middle, I cancelled meeting OC for the first time because FOW insists on being when I meet him (I don't know why--does she thinks I will do something horrible? My H will be there and he's the dad, after all!) H and I were afraid if it went badly or contentiously, that it might ruin the wedding, for me especially, in some way.

Just to say that the wedding was bittersweet. Am of course gloriously happy for my son and his bride, but was sort of cynical inside about all the flowery and naive thoughts about love lasting forever, trust being there forever, and all that innocence I lost when I learned about the A. Lucky for me, people don't think it's wierd for mothers to cry at their kids' weddings!!

So now 10 months after d-day, and 4 months after the birth of OC, I expect to finally meet him and to try to establish some sort of "adult" relationship that will allow myself and my H to be this kid's family when he's with his dad--we'll see if OW will tolerate it. But I'm afraid it will be difficult with lots of drama and threats. Will let you all know.

(((((25 wimsey)))))