SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

W - keep the wife; lose the mom.

Upon further reflection: yeah, I really mean that.

You've read enough stories here to know that, as bad as infidelity is, the things that really kill attempts to reconcile are gaslighting, TT, broken NC, and friends and family who are not friends of the marriage. You now know that the first three are not a factor, at least so far, and you presumably understand how rare that is.

As for the F&F issues, your wife's sister has demonstrated how valuable a friend or family member can be in this sort of situation, and you've done a good job of separating your wife from a highly toxic set of false friends at her volunteer position. But just imagine how things would be going now if her sister had, when she first thought something might be going on, said something along the lines of "if you're considering seeing somebody else then there must be something really wrong with your husband." Or if, after D-day, she had said "the way he's been neglecting you, you needed to something for yourself." Maybe you would be in the same place now but it would have taken a lot out of both of you to get there. Similarly you may be able to ignore your mom's comments but if she keeps it up it will take a lot of energy out of you and your wife - energy that will then not be available for the hard work of reconciliation.

You can't jettison family as easily as volunteer work, and I'm not suggesting you do so. But some of these relationships may need to change if you decide to reconcile, and maybe even if you don't.

I agree with Eric and disagree with Foley.

Even if the Mom is sticking a few jabs in there, she's still your Mom and unless she does something purely evil like set your wife up with someone else or tries to kill you and your family, never abandon the Mom. THAT DOES NOT mean don't put her in your place. She was fine IMO when she said "I never liked her anyway" which hopefully is not true but is simply trying to be aggressive in supporting you. However, the other comments were somewaht shots at you and you don't need that. Simply saying "Mom, I appreciate the support and your taking my side, but sometimes you also take swipes at me and I didn't do anything wrong to deserve this". Just please try to be supportive of me here rather than break me down".

Eric I garee. I never liked the question "were you planning on leaving me ?". To me, that is a bad question because many cakeeaters have no plan to abandon stability and to keep a loved one but they want a hall pass which helps destroy the loved one. I prefer the question "How long did you plan on keeping this going ?" "What the hell did you think was going to happen if I found out " "Why should I believe this is going to be the only time ". Just because they have no plans on leaving doesn't mean they aren't evil. Now in Walloped's case, it sounds like she's not evil but a good person who really, really fucked up. In many other cases, they are evil. Walloped will never fully recover from this because he's a man of principle and loyalty and trust and it has been shattered. I don't blame him. I couldn't either. Do you throw everything away or reconcile ? His call and he weighed it out carefully. Good for him. he chose one path, SG chose another but both were calculated.

I hope in Walloped's cases, she measures up to the expectations he sets forth because he is the leader now IMO since she damaged their relationship. I hope she improves, continues to realize the damage that has been done and aids Walloped in healing as he didn't deserve this shit sandwich

You know, part of what I think makes this so hard is the complete lack of loyalty. This is the person who was supposed to have your back damn it! And it's like trust; once someone has been disloyal that can never be forgotten.

Your dog bites you. Your best friend disses you. Your spouse cheats on you. It changes things.

We can all understand sexual attraction, ego boosts, etc. But it's our loyalty to our spouse (as part of our moral code) that is supposed to stop us. We shouldn't trash them to other people. We should support them through thick and thin.

And for crying out loud we should be "forsaking all others"!

Hang in there Walloped. You're doing as well, or even better, than can be expected.

Walloped - about Mom

I had to train my mom to respect my boundaries. I cut her out of my life for several years because she didn't. She dissed my husband both behind his back and unknowingly while he was in the car (call came over bluetooth) and he heard the whole thing. We both skipped the upcoming family Thanksgiving and my whole family knew why. And even though she knew she was the cause, I didn't see nearly enough remorse to patch things up with her for a while. It was an immediate reaction that left no question about why we weren't there.

It hasn't completely changed her. But the relationship between us changed too - it's much more stiff-armed/distant. She doesn't get to hear my life-goings-on because she doesn't get it. She's still my mother and I love her but I'm distant for a reason; my family is my husband and children. They get my priorities.

I agree with Western's questions.

This is precisely right, the question wasn't "would you leave me", because that is akin to asking someone in the second move of a chess game if they would move the king to the right. The question of how long it would have went on is the material one.

Wallup's wife was in a period of emotional transfer. The facts as we know then is that she loved her boyfriend, and what he represented, so much that she was even willing to risk it with her sister basically knowing something was going on. If this was a mere fling she would have tapped out and found herself. She was involved with this man as much as a in-love woman can be.

By emotional transfer I mean that when she had a bad day her new first instinct was "I need to tell my boyfriend about this". When she had good news, her inner soul was "I can't wait to tell my boyfriend!". And yes, when she was horny her first instinct would be to play her own sexual mind movies over her and her boyfriend's sexual encounters.

Wallup has had twenty years of these emotions built up. That means something. He was and is the comfortable old blanket. She never really compared the two, because both existed in her universe. But the process that was underway was one of transferrence to the point where her boyfriend would have built up enough history and trust to become her "primary". This is how love and trust work. This is why people date. This is why old people who look like prunes still hold hands in the nursing home.

That's not even saying that one her boyfriend was her emotional primary she would have necessary left him. In typical affairs such as this it's not like she's following a playcard. It usually results in behavioral change then the "I love you but I don't love you" speech. The ILYBIDL speech is proof alone that this isn't a well defined thing, this is basically how the cheater works it out in their brain. At this point, emotions have largely been transferred. It's tought to poinpoint when this would have happened, but all we know is that she was in the process of escalating their relationship based on their frequency increasing. She was needing and craving him more.

Even during emotional transfer it doesn't mean that the cheater will actually leave a spouse. There is a shitload of history. There are social stigmas. There are family committments. Financial concerns. Simple logistics. How the AP influences the wayward. Etc Etc Etc. There are so many factors it would take a shrink years to peel back why the wayward doesn't leave, which is why I think it's folly to even discuss it on a message board or waste a poly question on it. It's a true red herring.

The real question is "Would I have never not been 'the man' in your life, either emotionally, physical or both?"

Bigger wrote

It’s time to continue the hike…

Reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote (MHRIP):

When You Come to a Fork in the Road, take It.

Glad the poly came back the way it did. Don't overthink things. Time will reveal tomorrow what a million questions can't today. Focus on the little graces.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 10:43 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Walloped needs his Mom right now. Cutting her out would be a mistake IMO. Now sitting there and telling her 'thanks for the support but please be respectful as well' would handle the situation IMO but only Walloped knows.

BTW, while some here choose to reconcile and I am not making opinions based on that, it is natural for a mother to take her child's side and be angry that someone destroyed him/her. I wouldn't expect anything else. Respecting the wayward at the request of the betrayed is something that comes highly recommended but regardless of what anyone says, Walloped's Mom isn't the one who had an affair here. If Walloped can start to forgive his wife for the affair, then it would be pretty petty to ditch Mom right now over a few comments which he seems to be able to get over.

I do take issue with her treatment of Walloped however in some cutting comments about him. That to me is crossing the line and based on Walloped's comments, but I think he's got a handle on it.

I don't talk to my sister in law because she is both verbally abusive and cheats on my wife's brother. He is too much of a coward to stand up for himself so I cut her out. For a while, I took on the verbal abuse head on and kept winning. When she started to cheat, she was done in my book. So I am not immune to such situations. His Mom hated the SIL until she had the kid and he cut her out. Now with the grandchild, she puts on a fake act just to stay involved but it damages both his Mom and Dad severely and why should his mom and dad suffer because he made a bad choice in marriage ? They shouldn't.

Walloped's story is different of course and I am not relating the two at all other than to say that Mom is still family and you shouldn't cut her out for having your back (although based on the comments, I don't know where she was coming from)

I agree completely with Eric above.

Not to get side-tracked by my Mom, but after my Dad died 20+ years ago, she became very bitter and angry at the world and never really moved on. She always had a sarcastic and cyncical bent, but it got a lot worse. Now she's nearly 70, been single since, and has a generally negative attitude about most things. I have never put much stock into anything she says. I consider my repsonisbility to do the things I should do from my end and let her say whatever she wants to - it has no impact on me. My brother has always taken it to heart - he's more of a softy - me? I can be a cold-hearted SOB when I want to. So I ignore her comments. Funny thing is she's absolutely wonderful and warm and loving with my kids. Especially my oldest son who is named after my Dad. Yeah...couldn't have called that one, eh?

This thread is strange…

It’s like we are sitting in a car driving along the highway in the middle of the dark night in the worst storm ever. The engine is spluttering, the transmission gives a loud bang every now and then, we are low on gas, the steering is pulling the car to the side of the road, the window is cracked…

And all we do is argue about if we should have classic rock or country and western on the radio…

[This message edited by Bigger at 3:36 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Had some time to think about the poly and what it means. Mostly nothing.

I said this to someone is a PM. What it does let me know now is that at least I know the whole story, or most of what's relevant to me. That she was finally honest about that. Doesn't make it easier to deal with - it just means I have knowledge.

I also got two key pieces of information. One, that this was her only affair, which was key to me and frankly I didn't know was true. Because once that boundary was crossed, why couldn't it have happened before? And two, she's hasn't broken NC.

The other two questions were really meant to see if she's being honest - I didn't care so much about the answers. Meaning if she had said she wasn't truthful or that she had considered leaving me and would have passed with those answers, I would have been hurt, sure, but I'm already knee-deep in shit. What's another foot? They key for me is passing - i.e., being honest, not the answer itself.

In the end, it just means I can now focus on what's in front of me without always wondering about stuff. I'm more relieved than happy.

And no, I'm not fitting her for a halo just because she was finally honest. She still the person who betrayed me, us, our kids and our marriage. She still the person who went had fell in love with another guy for 3-5 months. I'm not getting over that anytime soon. However, I do think we need MC as there's a bunch of stuff I want to ask her and we need to hash out, but I think we'll screw it up if we go it alone (Bigger alluded to this). IMHO, we need to do it in a "protected" environment. But I had to pull back from our mini conversations and stuff - too soon and too fast. So I'll take it slow. And I plan on continuing IC, as I still get nightmares, and ancillary reactions. So that helps me cope. The key is I know where she wants to be and she's not running out anytime soon - that allows me to focus on where I need to be and want to head to.

As an aside - regarding the whole 'accepting of infidelity" vs. it being a deal-breaker. Before all of this, I would have said I was firmly in the latter camp. Yet here I am. How can I explain that? I have no freakin' clue. You can call it co-dependence, but I think of it more of me looking at my life and evaluating what would make me most happy. I "believe" that staying married to her would accomplish that, assuming I can get past or deal with what she's done. But that may not be true and I won't know that for certain anytime soon. It will also depend on her.And what I do know is that she wants to own what she's done, but I think she's not there yet, so she has work to do still.

I am just SO impressed by Monday Morning Quarterbacks.

Walloped, you continue to handle this in an amazingly sane and well thought out way. Asking the questions at poly that were important to you; that you needed to hear a response to makes absolute great sense regardless of whether others think those questions are important. Personally, I would want to hear an answer to those questions if I was still trying to decide, as you are, whether or not to try and R.

I agree with Bigger that it is time for you to try to begin engaging/interacting. Not full scale/full speed as you don't want to do something that freaks you out. But slow baby steps. Go up a level when you have become comfortable at the level you are at. Just know this. You have changed as a person. You will never look at life quite like you did before. And that realization is going to hit you smack in the face every now and then. When it does, don't let it defeat you. Don't even let it discourage you. Just remind yourself it is a burden you now bear and that you are strong enough and smart enough to be able to throw it on your back and keep moving.

Speaking as a guy who now gets senior discounts at the movies I can tell you this: you have a lot of life left to live and it WILL be get better. You have kids to raise and be proud of; grandkids (eventually) to delight you when you are a senior; a career that a large % of the population would love to have; and a W that, if you decide to give her the gift of R, seems to be ready to work her tail off to help you heal. True, life is and always will be different than what you planned. Probably always a little less than what you thought it would be. But think of this: 95% is certainly less than 100%. But is 95% a bad grade? Hang in there. Keep following your gut. You are doing great even if you can't see that yet.

Yet here I am. How can I explain that? I have no freakin' clue. You can call it co-dependence, but I think of it more of me looking at my life and evaluating what would make me most happy. I "believe" that staying married to her would accomplish that, assuming I can get past or deal with what she's done. But that may not be true and I won't know that for certain anytime soon. It will also depend on her.And what I do know is that she wants to own what she's done, but I think she's not there yet, so she has work to do still.

Again you "get" it.

So do you have a plan yet for moving towards that mountain Bigger mentioned?

Glad to see you juggling family, wife, poly and work emergency. Multi tasking works for you.

HM

PS

If the pressure gets to be too much call your brother, call your buddy, get the out the quads and go get dirty.

After all we will have 4-5 days of rain to enjoy now.

[This message edited by happyman64 at 10:13 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Just make sure you don't get one of those MC who rugsweeps affairs and blames you for it. Having a MC who is experienced in infidelity is a plus. You should never own any part of this affair.

I hope you can rebuild this but please do so on your own schedule. Don't feel rushed, mind movies are natural and keep strong. You've done a great job here and I truly feel that while your WW is remorseful and sounds like a very good person who messed up, you have shown her some strong consequences and that is something many here don't do before moving on. Just stay vigilant

Congrats on Mrs. Walloped making it through the poly exam. I think you can put this happening in a more positive light, meaning that she has been telling you the truth since about well dday. This is absolutly a positive. You can't make it go away and not many of our fellow SI members can say the same. You know when in sexless marriages the advice the spouses get its just to do it? I know you are not ready to make the decision just yet, but couldn't you... just do it? I bet you've heard about HB before and I don't recall any couple here attempting the big R to take so long to start HB. As alway wishing the best to you and your family, whatever you may decide.

There are also many people who say they will never accept forms of welfare.

Then they find themselves unemployed, and the boundaries take a decidedly more pragmatic approach...

I am glad she passed the poly, brother.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 1:44 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Wal, have you taken any breathers/breaks lately? To take your mind off of everything infidelity related, including SI? If your job allows, take an afternoon off and go with your brother to the race-track, or play some pool etc.

Best wishes

I think that he should go to Flashdancers to get his mind off of things

You seem so focused on her wanting to leave you more than you want to stand up for yourself.

Her leaving you for OM was not viable. Three days of week for three months she would drop off the kids, go play wife with OM then come back for the kids.

If she left to his apartment, there is no way she could have been able to get the kids to school, go back and play wife, then go back and get the kids and then take them back to his apartment.

There is no way your 16 and 19 would uproot their lives. Your WW would lose your family and the majority of both your friends.

This was not a choice of you versus OM, she would lose almost everything.

Stop the focus on Om and ask how does she expect to move forward. You are not the same people nor will you have the same marriage.

She was the unhappy one, what has changed other than being caught.

I think this will be a very difficult R mostly because of how this affair ended and the personalities of the people involved.