SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm so sorry you are sick again on top of everything else.

I recall thinking to myself, "seems he looked up how to apologize for having an affair." He was saying and doing all the steps I've read about.

He never blamed me. He didn't even blame her. It was 100% on him.

Here is the thing. He was doing/saying the right things. Maybe he read a book about how to help your spouse heal from your affair...but that's what we would suggest he do, and maybe he did it on his own. (that's good).

The key is to watch his actions not listen to his words. The promising N/C and saying he hates OW but... running over to her when she "needs" him goes against his words.

He says he is trying to find IC (came up with this on his own -good) but are these just words?

My point is that he is saying the right things and even if they are taken word for word from something he read he is at least doing research on his own to fix this and following the advice he was given.

My problem area is still the games. He was still playing them when he (his words) was trying to find a way out of the Affair. He was hurting you for her enjoyment.

I don't know, I'm a strong believer in never reveal your sources but I can't see how you can get past this without him having the games/words staring him in the face and explaining it to you. Could you just print 2-3 messages out? To show him how his timeline isn't meeting up with his actions at that time?

Rest, take it easy for the weekend. Sign the papers that need to be signed on the house. If you feel better having him there then keep him with you if it hurts having him around then send him home. Do whats best for you.

I’m sorry you are not feeling well. Please rest up! That is your number one priority now.

I’m surprised at the hate you have towards your H. I wasn’t sure that would be your reaction after you spoke with him. It it is completely justified and I understand it. I guess I never expected it.

You did very well in letting him speak. And saying very little. He knows you are in complete control and he knew it. You saw the love bombing for what it was. A bunch of words.

When I was 21,I dated a serial cheater. I was madly in love and he was so wonderful. Obviously he preyed on me b/.c I was young and dumb. His sister in law was the one who told me he was a cheater. So I ended it. He demanded to meet. Relentless. Wouldn’t give up. So I met him in a restaurant. We ordered.

I ate my meal for about half hour while he talked and love bombed me. Of course all a bunch of crap. He finally stops and asks me if I had anything to say. I looked him in the eye and said “maybe you should eat - your food is getting cold”.

He stood up and threw his money on the table and stormed out. I sat there (after his scene w/ people staring) and kept eating. He realized i wasn’t buying his load of crap.

And never looked back.

Just like you. I’m not very sure you will feel there is any chance of Reconciliation here. Sometimes the Affair and cruelty is a deal breaker. Just knowing he had recent contact to help the OW with a problem in her home is enough proof he doesn’t understand the pain he caused.

And maybe he never will.

Regarding his actions during the A. At DDay2 my H was becoming unglued. I thought he was having a breakdown. He walked in the door and with no warning he demanded a D. He wants out.

He told me after the fact that he just wanted to run from the mess he created. He told the OW it was over but she was pressuring him to end it with me. He was confused and torn on what to do. He didn’t think I would stay with him at DDay2 so he decided to just end the A and our marriage.

I one upped him by calling the OW and found out the truth.

Part of what your H says make sense. He probably did want to end it but knew the OW would not let it end quietly. However he has to take full responsibility for the Affair no matter what.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:18 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

I agree with the other poster who said to ask again about the mind games. Did you get an explanation about the broken NC? Why did he go round to OW's house?

You just take care of yourself, as far as the future/the relationship/the house - put it all on the back burner for now and physically heal. Let WH help (get you nutritious meals. tea etc) if it will get you better faster.

This.

((((SpeedBump))))

You get some rest this weekend! The flu sucks.

((((SB))))

It hurts to read what you wrote, knowing that you have to walk this walk. Sigh...

I think on the mind games, that is something you can talk about forever and never get a good answer on. Ever. Because there is nothing to be said that can ever possibly bring it back from the land of the horrendous. You will just have to choose whether to move past it or not. If he can grow or not. If you actually want to be with someone capable of this, even if they can learn to keep it bottled in.

Set aside the sex and romance they shared. Pretend that part of it never happened, and it was just your WH and his drinking buddy best friend playing games on you. It’d be little/no difference. It’s just a whole ‘nuther thing. Two cats playing with a mouse. Well...it turns out the mouse has fangs.

You’ve been enormously strong! You got dropped into the jungle of human nature people only read about, and are surviving. Just keep taking one step at a time, and never letting go of your control, SpeedBump.

Sending strength!

If he hadn't started the adultery he wouldn't have had to end it. Not being able to end it has low value to me. Speaks to the same weakness present to start in the first place.

I think it's no wonder you came down with the flu. It's flu season and you've been severely stressed. When stressed and run down you are susceptible to illness.

I'm a rancher and relate to how animals behave. Stressed calves get sick and die. Stressed animals are unthrifty and perform poorly. A secret to animal husbandry for all animals is to keep stress to a minimum.

You've been severely stressed for a lengthy period and are run down (lost weight). You were susceptible and it got you courtesy of adultery.

Actions over words. Others here have said it. Actions over words consistently for a long time. There are stories on SI about the WS doing all the right things and selling it for a short period time but they can't sustain it.

Having changes of perspective and back again over a short period of time is pretty typical. I think it's part of the "sorting out" process. I also think that being in need of support (caring for while sick) makes one thankful to a certain degree. It also can make you angry that you are relying on and are vulnerable to the person who harmed you so badly when weak and in need of help.

It certainly isn't time to make major decisions. Good for you for not succumbing to going "home". That showed strength in a period of weakness. Stay strong, SpeedBump. You are doing well even if it doesn't seem so to you. Get well, get stronger, get back to work. You are in charge.

Wants to find someone to talk to understand what is wrong with him because something definitely is. He has tried looking for someone to see but hasn't gotten an appointment booked yet because....'it's so hard."

If you believe nothing else that pages of wisdom has given you please believe this, UNTIL HE WORKS ON HIMSELF ONLY HE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT HE HAS DONE TO YOU. PERIOD.

My very biggest mistake back in the day (but when you first get slammed with infidelity you are not really too smart about much, you are in shock and denial at first) was not insisting on my WS going to IC for himself. I just took it all upon myself that I was somehow smarter, that my love was stronger (I think of this now in hindsight and know how stupid that sounds) and I was going to lead the way to show him all the things he was missing and hope he would then change into a great and caring husband.

Can't be done.

I had to learn to release control of the reigns, I had to let go and let my WS figure out his own life. And in letting go you also take the chance that they will not come back to you. But they must learn on their own otherwise they will never truly absorb how horrible it was that they felt they could make these choices and then call it love.

It is super easy to let someone, even your betrayer/emotional abuser/spouse to come back in the door when they are looking as if they are contrite and humble and "want to help" when you are feeling as down as you can possibly feel. I would however keep remembering that just because he seems nice now he still has not gotten help for his own personal demons. They are still inside of him. He felt he could do this to you and he kept saying "he could not stop it, or he just did not know why" type of stuff and that is the part that you cannot allow yourself to listen to.

He is not helpless, he does know how to pick up a phone, he does own a computer and he needs to pick up his big boy panties and figure out how to get some help... all on his own. And leave you alone to work on you and what you need and what you want going forward.

So sorry you got the flu on top of everything else. Keep drinking fluids and finding a way to eat, even if you are drinking Ensure or whatever to put nutrients in your body.

[This message edited by realitybites at 6:54 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

Hi Speedbump

As others have said, even at your physically weakest point you are an incredibly strong woman.

You did absolutely perfect.

The only thing I’ll stress that others have said, cheaters handbook or not, he is saying the right things.

That in itself means nothing except that it gets him a chance to prove himself thru his actions. He needs to show that over months or years.

And in the end, none of it matters unless you feel it. And you don’t have to decide that until you’re ready to decide it.

So let him do what you are comfortable with him doing for you as you heal your body. You’ve been going purely on adrenaline since DDay. Another collapse was inevitable.

At some point you may want to confide in a trusted manager at work so they know what you’ve been thru and you keep your position. But you know the lay of the land there better than us so you decide what’s appropriate.

Thanks for writing. I know it must have been exhausting just to do that. Don’t have big talks again until you feel up to it.

You are the leader now here in this relationship. He takes cues from you. He knows it so let him follow your lead.

Hugs.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:01 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

My very biggest mistake back in the day (but when you first get slammed with infidelity you are not really too smart about much, you are in shock and denial at first) was not insisting on my WS going to IC for himself.

Yes, he's definitely going to need IC if this has a chance of R.

SB, get that timeline too and it should include whatever happened with OW after DDay. His words and his actions don't match on that one. Keep monitoring him and watch what he does. He's giving you a lot of words but not a lot of action just yet. Actions are where the truth is.

I told him I bet that had I told him that before all of this mess, he would have shut down the conversation and put me right back in my place of "lucky to be in 2nd place in his love life" position. All he could do was state over and over that what I felt wasn't true.

This part is what makes all of the color drain from my face. There are so many layers of psychological abuse going on with all of this that it horrifies me for you. Telling you how that what you feel wasn't true is such a massive red flag that I can't even put it into words.

No one has the right to argue with you about how you feel or what you think. No one. No one has the right to dismiss your concerns the way that he has been doing with you. No one. What concerns me so much is that not only did he respond to the damage of his affair by trying to tell you that what you think and how you feel is wrong, he is so well practiced at dealing with conflicts and confrontations in this truly dysfunctional manner that he doesn't even flinch when using such a degrading and dehumanizing form of psychological abuse on you. This goes beyond gaslighting in that he acts like he is entitled to tell you what you should think and feel. That is very disturbing and a sign of much larger problems going on inside of him.

I agree that his actions do not match his words. He seems well polished in promising things, but has a ton of excuses for why he hasn't done any of those things yet. Despite all of his excuses, he still managed to stay in contact with the OW every time she calls on him. I can't help but wonder how many meetings took place without leaving a trace.

I can't help but notice that every time you have met with him in person, you have fallen deathly ill within 24 hours of having seen him. The first time, you were hospitalized as a result. And this time, you have been unable to get out of bed for quite a while now. This makes me very concerned for your safety and well-being.

Please take care of yourself. And make sure to have a lawyer look over any documents that he wants you to sign. I would also do a check for any unexpected life insurance policies taken out against you with your WH as the beneficiary.

F1

I suspect the falling ill is more likely a vulnerable and compromised immune system being hit by the germs being chucked out by the poor inflight air systems nowadays, just recycling the bad air.

I have reread your original posts.

Here are some things you will hear.

It didn’t mean anything. It meant something to you!

He is glad you found out because he wanted to end it. IN A PIG’S EAR! If he had wanted it over he would have ended it.

They can easily take this underground. Burner phone or just walking next door.

Who started it? Someone had to say the first out-of-line comment.

Just get well. That is your most important thing. Take care of your job. That is your second important thing.

She wants your husband and your life. Can you imagine the hell those two would live in if it happened.

And lastly, you wrote that he doesn’t share things with you. Well, he certainly shared body parts with her. Isn’t she special!

And so he is across the room from me now, sleeping on the couch.

Why not toss him out? Tell him you need some time to yourself until you've recovered from the flu. This will accomplish two things. One, it's going to let him know in no uncertain terms that you're still all about taking charge of your future. And two, it'll give you a well-earned breather so you can think. You don't have to be mean about it, but he needs to get out of your room. He's most likely not going to want you out of his sight. Cheaters are often surprising clingy after confrontation. But mostly, that's about not wanting you outside their sphere of influence and not being able to gauge your mood.

It's not surprising that the whole thing felt so surreal and hollow. There was never going be a good enough excuse for what he did. But not having an acceptable answer for why he did it or why he played these cruel games with you is something HE needs to figure out. While he's considering his answers, the process invites an internal dialogue which needs to happen. His rationalizations won't be satisfactory, but he absolutely needs to see in detail how shallow and unwarranted his thought process actually was. And he needs to give voice to it, even though it's going to show him for a spiteful, petty person. He can never change what he can't acknowledge and he's no good to you unless he's serious about change.

There are some day-to-day things you need to take care of anyway. You need to rest and recover from your illness, and if you don't want to go back to that house, you'll need to find some place to live for awhile. You could tell him plainly that you want him working on getting the house ready for sale, maintaining strict NC with the AP, and will hear his proposal on how he plans to repair the marriage. There's no harm in letting him know you're on the fence, but he needs to understand that you're not making any commitments without hearing all the facts. You can always meet him for another discussion next week or whatever.

ETA: What did he have to say about the broken contact when he fixed the OW's sink? You couldn't tell him what you specifically know without him finding out how you know it, but if memory serves, he was going to "explain" it to you.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 9:35 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

Speed bump! I too have a had the flu the last three days it's no joke and therefore you do what you have to get well when if that means taking advantage of your husband's guilt and having care for you. Flu can easily turn more serious or develop into pneumonia so rest and get plenty of fluids!!

Take your time. No big decisions until you're 100%

House of Pain said what I have been thinking about the mind games but far more elegantly and kindly. Particularly, "there is nothing to be said that can ever possibly bring it back from the land of the horrendous. You will just have to choose whether to move past it or not. If he can grow or not. If you actually want to be with someone capable of this, even if they can learn to keep it bottled in."

The question you likley have is whether he is suppressing some horrendous desire to be cruel from here on out or will he truly never sink to those levels again. In addition for R to be a possibility you will at some point have to forgive him. That level of true forgiveness is not possible for most people. It truly is a gift because it is so rare. For me an important element will be whether she initiated the games and he happily played along, or whether he ever instigated them.

I've asked myself can anyone do something so horrible and truly learn after the fact it was wrong and NEVER have it be something they have any desire to do again. I'm not sure about your husband, but I will share that when I was little (under 10) my mom would get upset and loose her temper (i.e. go crazy) and beat the dickens out of me with a belt, stick anything a little bendy (i.e. not a bat...). Afterwards I would crawl off crying and our dog would come to me to comfort me. For awhile (not sure how long but I did it at least 3 or 4 times), I would spontaneously just start hitting the dog and yelling at it for no reason just as my mom had done to me. Then one time as the dog slinked away it dawned on me that I was doing exactly to the dog that my mom was doing to me and I felt so ashamed and regretful. I still do. I still can't understand why I did it, but I never done anything like that again. Not only not done it but at no time while being anger have I had any desire to physically hurt someone (....I am very capable of saying terrible mean emotionally hurtful things). Not one iota of desire. I friend in college got so mad at me during a verbal argument that she proceeded to punch and kick me and gave me a black eye. I didn't have to suppress a desire to fight back, I wasn't interested. I get why people resort to violence when mad (to relieve their own discomfort and frustration), so I wasn't mad at my friend from college, but its just not in me. When I was younger I would throw and break things I guess as a substitute, but even that is gone now.

I find it fascinating that a switch could just flip in me like that. It was like in a single moment who I was and what I was capable of fundamentally shifted.

I guess I shared this to say it is possible for someone to be capable of things at one point and then never again because they realized to their core it was wrong and that change was not a rational decision but a change they didn't really control but happened. But I think it is the exception and not the norm.

Follup: I reread this and realize I say that I can't see how I could want to beat my dog, but then later say I get why people do respond to discomfort with physical violence to others. But I can't really change either statement because I feel both ways, I get why others do it, but I do not see how "I" could of ever done it because that behavior is so unlike who I feel I am now.

[This message edited by otter at 9:52 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

Flu? Good grief! Get rest, drink lots of water, and rest. Whatever you do, remember your physical health is your top priority right now.

Post when you are better. We are all here for you.

I just wanted to say what a strong woman you really are going through this hell. The club no one wants to belong too.

I just want you to know that you have my full respect. Sometimes people that really love us just toss us aside. And then regret what they have done.

God bless you.

And so he is across the room from me now, sleeping on the couch.

Sounds like you need hatefulnow’s friend Bill. He’d know what to do, and he’d be the man to do it.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=635617

I know, I know, lightning is going to strike dead for that one.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 11:36 AM, February 15th (Friday)]

Furious1's reaction:

I told him I bet that had I told him that before all of this mess, he would have shut down the conversation and put me right back in my place of "lucky to be in 2nd place in his love life" position. All he could do was state over and over that what I felt wasn't true.

This part is what makes all of the color drain from my face. There are so many layers of psychological abuse going on with all of this that it horrifies me for you. Telling you how that what you feel wasn't true is such a massive red flag that I can't even put it into words.

No one has the right to argue with you about how you feel or what you think. No one. No one has the right to dismiss your concerns the way that he has been doing with you. No one. What concerns me so much is that not only did he respond to the damage of his affair by trying to tell you that what you think and how you feel is wrong, he is so well practiced at dealing with conflicts and confrontations in this truly dysfunctional manner that he doesn't even flinch when using such a degrading and dehumanizing form of psychological abuse on you. This goes beyond gaslighting in that he acts like he is entitled to tell you what you should think and feel. That is very disturbing and a sign of much larger problems going on inside of him.

Speedbump, I have to agree completely with Furious1 here. The monster inside him that allowed him, encouraged him, to not only break his vows in the first place, but play horrifying psychological games with you, is still 100% present in the man before you.

I truly believe he is a sociopath. He played those games because it was fun.

Now, he is acting out the part of being a remorseful, oh-so-sorry model of a cheater who wants you to believe he understands how badly he screwed up and NOW, now, he will fix himself and fix your hurts.

Look at the topic name you chose: "Being played. Paralyzed."

You are still being played. I wouldn't trust this man as far as you could throw him.

All he could do was state over and over that what I felt wasn't true.

Yes, this is a man who will twist himself into knots to get you to belieeeeeeve him, who will do everything he can to sow doubt in your mind, to make you question your own thoughts and feelings, to get you to back off and quit with questions or statements that make him feel bad. So your feeling bad is wrong. Your thoughts and beliefs are not true. What's going on in your head must be changed so he doesn't have to.

You are so incredibly strong to be holding firm and resolute.

Please remove this man from your hotel room as quickly as you can. Tell him to go home now. Call the front desk and ask them to move you to a different room so you can have peace without him knocking on your door. Tell them to keep your stay there strictly confidential. Look up menus from restaurants that will deliver. Start researching home health care and see if you can hire an assistant for a month to come to your room once a day and bring you medication, take care of daily needs like laundry.

You deserve space from him AND healing. Keeping him around you is not going to speed your return to health, it will continue to add stress to your already weak body.

I've been following along SpeedBump, and silently adding my support and healing vibes for you. You asked if any of it sounded familiar. One thing my ex said to me about "why" is "I didn't think I'd get caught". That's the only thing about what your H said to you that rings true to me.

Protect yourself. Look after yourself. This man is not on your team. I know you really want him to be, but he's not.