SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree with BFTG. I don't think you have nearly the entire truth about the affair. I think it's been severely minimized.

Schedule the polygraph and insist she take it if she wants to attempt R.

Schedule the polygraph and insist she take it if she wants to attempt R.

If I could give your WW this advice, I would. It would be exactly the kind of "all in" action you're looking for her if she would step up and ask you to book her one. If she's telling the truth, she would jump at the chance to prove it.

Mrs. Achilles, if you're reading this, come clean if you haven't already. Take the polygraph. Get into IC. And please, stop fighting the consequences of your A by being angry at Achilles for his pain and frustration. Stop pushing him to do what you want instead of do what he needs to feel safe and respected in your marriage.

I have been thinking about what Butforthegrace said to you yesterday, as well as your reaction. I think it's on my mind so much because it is the crux of so many problems here lately. His painful comments were to remind you that you have been hurt. In your desire to fix your M and keep your WW, you are completely ignoring that pain through compartmentalization, otherwise it would not have stung so badly.

BFTG is telling you that your focus should sound like, "I hurt so much. I feel so sad. I feel so badly about my life. I am so confused and scared." And your WW should be every minute asking how she can help you and care for you during this traumatic time, a life-altering injury that she inflicted.

Reconciliation is about your feelings--not your feelings about her, but your feelings about you. Only you. But your pain and loss is not present in any of your posts, just an obsessive focus on what she is or is not doing and feeling about you and the M.

What I need is for her to understand what allowed her to have the affair so that it can be dealt with and I can be confident that an affair won't happen again. She needs to fix herself. If she can/can't do that, I will have a much better idea of what I want to do. Even if we end up in divorce, I want her to fix herself if she can.

Your goals in life should not be about your wife. You can't control her. You can't fix her. You can "need her to understand," but that is trying to control whether or not she understands! Make your requests, judge her responses, and act accordingly. Stop trying to guide her or fix her poor responses. Your job is not to talk her into fixing herself or to check on her to see if she's doing it. Your job is take care of yourself, but you are ignoring yourself entirely as if the only part of you that exists about you is how she "makes you feel."

You think reconciliation is about her fixing herself. But reconciliation is really about you fixing yourself while she fixes--or doesn't fix--herself. And you won't admit that it's going to take a long time, she may not actually do the work, and you need to get out of her problems and work on taking care of your own self, which you seem to have no clue how to do. (Read the thread in the Healing Library on "Codependency in the Marriage: a BS's Common Mistakes.")

Insisting on a poly is fine but only insofar as it is a test, but you won't let her take a test and fail her. You keep trying to tutor her or slip her the answers instead. A poly is a good example because she should JUMP at the chance to give you what you need right now. When she doesn't, you need to accept that you have nothing to work with and move on with filing for D. Instead you are thinking it's your job "to make her understand" why you need a poly. By insisting on it, you fear you will exhaust yourself trying to get her to do it so tell us it won't help. But that's not your job, to cover for her and what she won't do. Or to ask less of her. Your job is to accept who she is when she begs off of requests, not work harder "so she understands" and does what you want.

BFTG has it exactly right. And I think it stuck with me because so many threads are focused on the same "trying to get my spouse to get it" exhaustion.

Stop trying to get her to do anything and instead do for you. You need to care for yourself.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:43 AM, June 18th (Thursday)]

I agree with all of Ownings's post. I wanted to add she should jump at the chance to take the polygraph, and ACTUALLY TAKE THE TEST. Jumping doesn't mean much. Most waywards will readily agree to take the test. Doing otherwise makes them look guilty right off the bat. Most agree, enthusiasticly,because they don't believe their BS will actually follow through with having them take it. And if they say no, then it's clear they are still lying. And many BS don't follow through, coming here,and telling us they said they would take the test. And the BS takes that an an indication that they're telling the truth. They're not.

However, your wife is a member here, and reading your posts. So she has the added benefit of knowing how she should respond to the requirement of a polygraph. So her response means nothing.

Find a reputable administrator, and schedule the test. Two of the questions should be.."Did you have vaginal sex with OM?" And, "did the affair end when your husband thinks it ended?"

Owningit: thank you for that. I agree with your clarification of what I was inarticulately trying to say.

I agree with all of Ownings's post.

I agree with all of Owning's posts. Yes, plural. She's always spot on and I've learned so much from reading her insights.

A lot got put out there for me to digest, Thanks for that.

Just to clarify, what pissed me off about BFTG's post was not his comments on what me or my wife were doing and why. Throwing my wife's sexcapades in my face hurt. I think about them every day. I met him, know what he looks like and even went to his baby shower. The images in my mind are incredibly vivid, played over and over on an endless loop. By the way, I have trouble believing it too. I keep waiting for that shoe to drop.

Even with all the help here, I have no idea what I am doing. I went almost a year trying and failing to deal with this by myself, obviously my wife was no help as she continued to lie. It took me that long to realize I needed help. So I get help here and discover it's a hundred times worse than I thought. Crushed again and back to and beyond zero. I am physically and emotionally exhausted. I can't even think straight. Sometimes I have to read posts several times just understand them.

Fix myself. I don't know how, I'm not even sure I know what's wrong with me. Maybe that's why I obsess with trying to fix her, if I can fix her then I can fix myself. Assbackwards I see now.

I old her I wanted her to take a poly, she agreed and even researched local polygraphists. So of course, like HellFire said, I took that as she was being honest and didn't follow through. Time to follow through. In addition to HellFire's two questions. I would like to know if there has been any other affairs.

So yes I have been struggling with this process, I am as frustrated with myself as probably some of you that have gone through this before are with me.

I guess I am a hard learner, but I do appreciate the input

So you told her you wanted her to take a polygraph and she researched administrators? Then why didn't she follow through? If she is being honest,why wouldn't she want to prove that? Why wouldnt she want to set that part of your mind at ease? Do you have to make her follow though for her to actually do it? Even if you told her she didn't have to, she should have wanted to. It's extremely troubling that she didn't.

You research the administrators. That way you know they're reputable. That way she can't blame a hack admin when she fails.

Hellfire,

Part of it we are still in lockdown here. Other than that good question. She could have scheduled for a while out.

I am definitely going to follow through with this.

Achilles, be the one to pick the administrator and follow through. Don't rely on her to do it. Tell her the date and time. Somehow people are managing to get them done despite the pandemic.

Fix myself. I don't know how, I'm not even sure I know what's wrong with me. Maybe that's why I obsess with trying to fix her, if I can fix her then I can fix myself. Assbackwards I see now.

Get into IC. Pick up a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" or re-read it and implement it if you've already had a read through. Brush up on the 180 and implement it at least partially. DO NOT push your WW to read books, manage her IC, or help her figure out her whys or hows anymore. That is for her IC to do and listen: It's very important to back off of her whys because the answer you think her whys are and the real answer she will come to may not be the same answer. She needs to figure out her own whys in order to understand how this happened and prevent it from happening again in the future.

So I get help here and discover it's a hundred times worse than I thought. Crushed again and back to and beyond zero. I am physically and emotionally exhausted. I can't even think straight.

This is why the 180 is such a strong recommend for newly minted BH's. In your case, it is doubly important because your WW is playing you so close, in my opinion gaslighting you. She has you focused on seeing things her way, and she is relentless about it.

The 180 is not "punishment". It is a way for a BH to get psychological space. To find your heart. I'd recommend disengaging from your WW completely, for at least a few weeks.

I can clearly state a neutral observer wouldn't believe anything your wife has said without a polygraph and three witnesses.

I say this after reading her thread and your thread, there is so much being hidden.

Still working with the OM whom she "has trouble being intimate with for 4.5 years".....

As mentioned, other people are able to take polygraphs. Read in the jfo forum, and you will see other WS are taking the test.

Odd that your wife can't because of Covid.

Are you reading her thread? We are not allowed to discuss what she is saying on other threads. But I'm wondering, if you were reading it,and didn't know it was your wife's thread, would you believe what she is saying?

Hellfire,

Google it , our county is the stupidest in the country. I see it and I have your same concerns.

Blablayahblah, I get it, implausible on its face.

BFTG,

You failed to address anything I said about my concerns to your comment about me so stick it up your ass and leave me alone. Come to Cali and we can discuss it. I am tiered of keyboard warriors

Thought about it and stupid, sorry

You failed to address anything I said about my concerns to your comment about me so stick it up your ass and leave me alone.

Ok, wow. Is this what you apologized for? I hope so because BFTG did not say anything offensive in mentioning the 180. It was very accurate and helpful info on the 180, to be honest.

Your anger at us is normal. I have to go back a long time to when I was dealing with this all--about 11 or more years. I posted a lot on a different forum, not SI, and I would become enraged at some of the things they said. Most of it I laugh about now, but a few posters were total %$+÷!)%&*! Butforthegrace is not coming from that complete S.O.B. place, he's not. Someday you will realize that your anger is coming from other places but is not caused by the posters.

So, let's address what he wrote that upset you. They were explicit reminders--in some graphic detail--of what your WW did with and for her AP. Can I ask, if you are thinking about this non-stop, then why would it hurt so much and make you so angry when BFTG says it? Why do you suppose it brought out so much anger in you?

I have one theory, based on my own life. My theory is that your wife's offenses make you depressed instead of angry. You feel helpless to the facts instead of outraged by the facts. So you get mad at someone for putting the facts in your face instead of mad at the person who brought those facts into your life.

Next time you get upset at thinking what she did, go find your WW and tell her loud and clear. Stop protecting her to save your M. When you feel confident, safe, and healed inside and in the partnership of your M, someone saying those things won't anger you because you'll have a list of 25 ways you have worked past that. Then you calmly remind the poster not to disrespect the work you and your WW have done.

But you are nowhere near this.

And that's why you became enraged.

Find your WW and scream at her how hurt you are. Don't hide from this and keep it inside just to save your M. It will never work. She'll just find a new guy. You see it here AALLLL the time. Get it out. Let her feel it. Let there be consequences.

The more a BS gets real + the more a BS insists on requirements, consequences, and hurdles = the stronger the reconciliation

If the wayward can't handle it, you were never in real reconciliation anyways.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:57 PM, June 18th (Thursday)]

As usual, Owningits says what I say better than me. Achilles, I do apologize for causing you pain, but to me what is lacking now is your anger against the person who has been extremely shitty to you, and, from my reading, increasingly so as time has gone by.

I didn't even realize the comingling of the A and the marriage. She had you participate in social events with the AP, while the A was active? That is such a high degree of disrespect, directly in your face. A giant "fuck you" as she looks you in the eye. My observation about infidelity is that one aspect that plays into R is the degree to which the A is truly a bubble, compartmentalized from the marriage. The more it is, the more it can be set loose. Yours is the opposite. No compartmentalization at all.

Your WW's behavior was despicable, and she is still behaving in a despicable, wayward manner, trying to force you to see things from her perspective. To me, the question whether she is still lying is secondary. Maybe she has told you all; maybe there are some ragged edges lost due to the sheer magnitude of data of her betrayal amassed over 5 years; maybe she's outright lying about the threshold issue of PIV sex. Either way, at present, her behavior suggests she does not contain one ounce of empathy for your pain. She is gaslighting and browbeating and using every tool in her toolbox to get you to empathize with her. She has you walking backward, into infidelity, when you should be walking forward, out of it.

Get pissed at me if you want, brother. Don't forget I was cheated on, too, and left for another. I've spent days laying on the floor of my office, alone with the door closed, weeping in helpless pain. Everybody here on SI has been there. I'm here out of love for a fellow betrayed man. My bedside manner may be rough, but I come from a place of compassion. I'm a believer in ripping the band-aid off, not inching it off slowly and tortuously.

The person you should be pissed at is your wife. What frustrates me (and others) about your thread is that you are wallowing in the muck of trying to protect and go easy on the one person who has fed you a shit sandwich. Where is your anger, man? Even an enemy doesn't do what she did to you.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:42 AM, June 19th (Friday)]

It is very important that you vent your rage and anger towards her. Not abuse, but the rage a BS feels towards their WS. And she, if she wants R,and if she loves you,will take it all in,hear you,and comfort you. It's a necessary step on the path to R,and should happen often,in the beginning,and peppered throughout the process.

Sitting by a lake,and having nice quiet talks about mutual needs,at this point, is a bit ridiculous. You are still bleeding out, and she wants to tell you what she needs from you. Um..no. That comes later. Right now,the two of you must deal with the gunshot wounds she put in you.

Schedule the polygraph in a different county.

Be forewarned. Many unremorseful WS eventually tell their BS they think this place is toxic, and want them to stay away from this site. It's extremely common. We don't love her. So we see through all of the emotions that may be clouding your view. When we start to get too close to the truth, the WS gets scared that they no longer have control over the BS, and their situation.

Don't allow that to happen.

Believe it or not, we all want you to reconcile. But we all want you to have the entire truth, the respect you deserve, and for her to do the hard work, so it's a successful reconciliation.

It's hard. Painful. Ugly. But worth it.

Don't stop posting.

Hellfire said

Believe it or not, we all want you to reconcile.

Not me sir, I want you out of infidelity. I just reread your thread. 2 1/2 months of a WW so callous and disconnected from your devastation. Your way out is not R at the moment. And given the nature of her activities I believe you will not find this was her only transgression. That message you related very early on in this thread where he asked "Can you do me a favor?" You know what that meant, right? Her response, "Sure" speaks volumes about how easily she could subjugate herself to another man. I can't even imagine what you you are going through. You deserve so much better than what your WW can ever provide from here on out.