SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know how much I have to contribute to the conversation, but I want to say this has been one of the best discussions I've read on the A, period.

I'm not at the 3yr mark yet, but I have to say that D and how it would come about has already entered my thinking.

The opening lyric of a song, "Got a wife and kids in Baltimore jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back. Like I river that don't know where it's flowing, I took a wrong turn and just kept going.."

About a month ago, I got up on a Sunday morning went to church - alone again - and afterwards I almost took that wrong turn. I actually headed down the road. I stopped in a subdivision that was just under construction and sat for about two hours. When I finally went back home - no one even noticed that I was gone.

That said.. this thread does offer a perspective of the future. This is looking forward to what I still have to contend with and it's been a great "heads up".

As it applies to the WS. One of the things my wife said several times, early on in MC was, "Please don't allow me to fall in love with you again, then you leave me over this. If you're gonna D me do it now."

I wonder if others couples have the same dynamic?

"Please don't allow me to fall in love with you again, then you leave me over this. If you're gonna D me do it now."

You touched on exactly what I was going to post.

After Dday, BS are advised to not make any major decisions right away. Give it time, give it a year, etc. I'm not saying I disagree with this advice, but after reading the replies to this thread, I get the impression the longer the BS waits it out, the more guilt they feel about divorcing because of infidelity.

The longer you try to reconcile, the more time you have invested in the marriage and the older you are in age (which for some, their age factors in their decision).

Not sure if I'm making any sense, but I wonder how many BS know deep down, on Dday, if infidelity is a dealbreaker or not. But because of the emotions surrounding Dday, they are incapable of making such a life changing decision, but ultimately it resurfaces, often years into reconciliation.

The bottom line for me has always been this:

The marriage failed because of the WS's infidelity, and NOT because of the BS's inability to get over it. Whether it's 5 years later or a month after dday, it all comes down to the WS's decision to stray, period.

[This message edited by Clint at 9:37 AM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

I think it forever changes the dynamic in a marriage, leaving the BS with lots of doubts. Once the BS gets over the initial panic and trauma, there is resentment, doubt, and all types of things running through his/her head.

I've heard that the easiest, healthiest recoveries are made through divorce.

Not sure if I'm making any sense, but I wonder how many BS know deep down, on Dday, if infidelity is a dealbreaker or not. But because of the emotions surrounding Dday, they are incapable of making such a life changing decision, but ultimately it resurfaces, often years into reconciliation.

I think this was me. I had already dealt with infidelity before and I never ever wanted to deal with it again. But inside I was split, in my first relationship I hadn't done anything to the relationship to "deserve" it. IN my second relationship I had gone into a depression for 6 months due to loss of my businesses. I quite simply blamed myself and took all the blame and she allowed me to (of course)

somewhere inside I was blown to bits (I actually did develop PTSD due to this)in a way I had never been. Making that decision right then was very hard. I simultaneously wanted to her leave, to stay and to die.

I remember just wishing again and again she would just have died instead.

I don't know if I could have respected her enough to let her go had she wanted to reconcile and said to me what Plesk3yl's W did. She'd already blown her promises to bits I'm not sure I would have promised her anything or felt the need to.

Some of us are very calm and rational in the face of an affair but most of us are a basket case we couldn't make a decision about it if we wanted to as we have been effectively made bipolar by our SO's.

I'm sure for many that being dismantled by the affair ensures you are incapable of leaving or doing anything productive for a while but once you are strong again can emotional resources to go.

But there are others I believe that thought they could and tried to reconcile and eventually realized Nope not going to cut it, it just isn't good enough, or I see my spouse too differently now and myself too differently now, and I know I'm capable of loving more than I do and I want to with someone else.

I've heard that the easiest, healthiest recoveries are made through divorce.

I don't know about easiest but I could see the healthy part.

With D, you have some closure (especially if there are no kids involved).

It's like the old saying about yanking off a bandage vs. pulling it slowly. It's going to hurt like hell for a second, but after that you'll be fine.

R sometimes (often?) feels like you're just slowly pulling and pulling and pulling. At some point, you may just say, "The hell with it" and yank it the rest of the way off.

_CG

R sometimes (often?) feels like you're just slowly pulling and pulling and pulling. At some point, you may just say, "The hell with it" and yank it the rest of the way off.

good analogy, compgeek

I love statistics. You can interprete them any way you want.

I can think of a few reasons for BS's leaving after three years.

If the affair was a male "Mid-life crisis", they possibly have children in their teenage years. The BS may be waiting for the kids to go to college before filing for divorce.

Also, if the BS was a stay-at-home mom, it may take about three years for her to get a job and get on her feet before she feels capable of going on her own.

Or it could be that we all believe that statistic that it takes "At least two years" for a BS to get over an affair. They struggle through those two years and if things are still terrible they file for divorce. Many states have a one year mandatory wait so the divorce would not be final until year three.

If a WS is hurt that the BS leaves after all the hard work they put into R, then tough. Now they know how it feels to have the rug pulled out from under their feet.

I got an awful lot out of this thread...kept thinking of us, our situation, of course. We're 3 years from his last PA, less from his last EA, much less from the last time he was heading down the flirting road (he still denies this--she was obviously flirting) and got to the point of lying to me about whether he was with her.

And now I'm helping a hurt friend who D-day was months ago-her WS is sooo remorseful, not resentful.

Someone (Pug..?) on this thread that a resentful WS was common--it's what still makes me nuts, that he was/is so surly about making R efforts. I'm stuch on this point. Stuck.

And someone else (Syzy?) noted the A was the marker for wanting satisfaction in the M...that's where I am. A lot of the other really obnoxious behavior (bouts of yelling at me, swearing at me, getting aggressive in demeanor, not wanting to do soething if it's one of my interests as opposed to his)...I feel strongly that it is just too much. I think of when he's obnoxious like this and realize that if it was date, it would be a last date...there's just no reason for him to be regularly engaging in obnoxious behavior.

I told my hurting friend something I really seized on in Glass's Not Just Friends:

*People donnot stray because they're not getting enough at home.

**People stray because they are not giving enough at home.

So, if he still doesn't give enough...is he still a strayer, even though he says he's changed and won't do it again? (He's a *serial* cheater...there were a number of others 10-1 years back.)

I get the impression the longer the BS waits it out, the more guilt they feel about divorcing because of infidelity.

Not for me -- if I decide to D after all this time I will not feel any guilt and it will be because of the A. I can't find the post now but as someone said "the tolerance for error after an A is much smaller." If I decide to D, I know I will have tried my hardest but WH destroyed the M in his decisions during the A and afterwards.

This thread is so good. I printed out everything to this point.

I am between 3-4 years out. I don't want to be married anymore to my WS or anyone else for that matter.

I don't leave because of guilt mainly and that was already mentioned.

My husband has quit trying to repair the damage and effectively quit about 3 months after d-day. His anaolgy was "see that dog wagging his tail....he does something wrong and I can scold him and he'll walk around for a while with his tail between his legs but eventually he'll go back to being a dog because that's what he is."

While I understand the comparison and the underlying message that my husband doesn't think he should have to walk around with his tail between his legs for the rest of his life...... I just don't see a solution to the problem (being his adultery) and my lack of respect for him because of his betrayal.

Now I just look at him as that dog I guess.

I now wish I had divorced him immediately contrary to almost everyone's advice.

wow... this thread is great.

i'm going to put on my WS hat for a minute instead of the BS one i've been living with lately.

i have a whole new conversation i need to have with WH. its not that i haven't thought about it recently but i've been so angry that i haven't been willing to "go there". its been 5+ years since he found out about my A. i wonder how much of this he feels. i really thought that a couple of years ago we had really moved on b/c of some his behaviour. maybe he was just checking out all the way emotionally.

I discussed this thread w/ WH. He's a bit worried, but I wanted him to face reality, this is a long road to travel. What he feels is so far away, I am still being triggered by.

I have retreated and I realized that it's b/c in a few days is the anniversary of the start of the A. It was affecting me subconsciously. It was two years ago, it seems so long ago to him but still affects me viscerally.

From what I see, what tips the scales is that WH recognizes that R is a gift. That if I can't get over it and decide to D, it is not b/c I can't get over it, but b/c he did these horrendous things that I would have to get over. The future is too hard to see, but for right now I see the right attitude coming from him.

Excellent thread. My dday as about 2.5 years agot and I did D my ws immediately. I knew the marriage was dead and wanted to secure my assets. (You can read my profile for the details of the long and winding road.) However, we are still together and in R. We will probably remarry, but I'm not sure.

Recently, we were in the ER because ws was very, very ill. I thought "oh my god - we're not married and I have no legal rights in his care. I have to get remarried." I also thought "if he needs long term nursing, I'm sending him home to his mother. I'm not going to take care of him after what he did to me." So I have a deep desire to stay with him but apparently lack the deep commitment I used to have toward the quality of his life. I do love him and want stay with him, but I will never feel the way I did. Sadly, I don't think I'll ever feel the way I did with anyone. I've been broken and am forever changed. So, I'm staying with what I know and one thing I do know is that he will never betray me again. I also know that he can never betray me again because I will never allow my heart to be that vulnerable again - with anyone. It sucks all around...there are no winners, only losers in the infidelity game.

edited to add: this sounds more morose than it is. I have rebounded and experience more joy than sadness; forgiveness than resentment; love than hate. I've just realized no one has my back because that's my job. Each day is better than the last and I look forward to the future - with or without him.

[This message edited by ktm250mx at 10:34 AM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

I 100% agree that this thread is one of most important and overreaching discussions on Infidelity that I have seen anywhere...including all of the many books and articles and websites out there on Infidelity.

The only piece I can think to add to all the salient insights already posted....

A BS who does choose to reconcile will probably reach an awareness that, yes, the betrayal has "changed" the M for them.

They will at some point come to realize that to stay in the M, they will have to settle, or compromise with themselves to accept the new version.

For some, the new version may be an overall improvement.

For others, it will have to be settling for a version that has been watered-down from the innocence and noble potential it once held for them.

And perhaps, it is this scenario that Syzy made mention of initially in the post. That at some point a couple of years out, some reconciled BS simply cannot, ultimately, settle for less than what once was.

Infidelity sadly does take away that which is the very fiber of being "married."

It is amazing that this post is here just when I needed it. I am 4 years out, but have been struggling mightily since last March 2007.

I have teenagers which makes it worse. I can support myself..that's not the problem.

I have contacted a law firm for the first time today asking for advice and amount of retainer.

Being a good husband was not enough after his A. I never held him resposible for his not stepping up and am not trying tosend him a wake up call either. He has had plenty of time to wake up. I think I've known for years that this was a deal breaker.

I'm tired of fighting it and of feeling guilty that I no longer feel consistantly loving towards him. I can't make my feelings stick and it's exhausting me.

Thank you for making me feel not alone because a few years has passed.

holly & hexed bring up a point that I think is important to consider in R. - particularly for us BSs that are this long out and finding ourselves facing confusion.

In the early days, it is expected to need to talk about the affair - often and at unusual times. We feel entitled to that as a right.

However as time progresses, perhaps we stop discussing our feelings. We hate to ruin the moment or we feel like we have already discussed this. So instead we try to either deal with it on our own or we try to push it away..deny that this is what we are really feeling. We look at the good, try to put a higher value on that, and move on. We wonder what is wrong with us...why we aren't happier now...or if we are just permenantly broken...and we quit talking. WSs think everything is fine and we begin to fade into the background in our marriages.

Until one day we just feel like we cannot accept this anymore. Because we haven't been talking, because we have been fading into the background, we no longer can really identify the problem. All we know is that it started on d-day and has just "never been the same since then". We figure that we are just one of those that can't get over it.

Perhaps there is another way to go about this....a way that those few of us who have successfully R. and claim that it ALL truly is better now understand. You know the ones....we hear them and we truly believe them. We just don't know HOW they managed to do that.

Maybe the answer (or the avoidance of the problem) is in the continuing to talk about it. Maybe infidelity is something that you never "get over" but instead something that you agree to now face together - for the rest of your life.

Just something to think about....

I know how often I hold so much of these feelings and thoughts inside of me. But I also know when I DO finally talk to my WS about them, how much closer I actually feel to him.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 10:49 AM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

For me, if my H and I divorce, it won't be due to the infidelity. His EA/?PA was symptomatic of issues within himself. Divorce between us will be due to his inability to purge his self-destructive thoughts that become destructive actions.

I want a M that is capable of full, true intimacy and don't feel I should settle for anything less.

But as far as the BS D in the 2-4 yr range, I think it's human psychology that reflects both the stages of grief and the stages of M.

Newlyweds have the honeymoon stage where faults and issues are overlooked. The HB phase after DDay is similar in that the issues take a back burner to the "reclaiming" of the spouses. HB can also be forms of bargaining and denial in the processing of the betrayal.

But after the honeymoon stage, comes the conflict resolution stage. This lasts from 6 mos to 3 - 5 yrs after the wedding day. There can be a lot of anger. And couple will argue or withdraw during this stage.

I've read many posts where the BS who had HB are 6 to 9 mos out from dday and find themselves angry. And moving further past dday many BS hit the plain of flatness which is similar to the depression Kubler-Ross described.

After that, the BS faces acceptance and the choice in how to accept it. For some BS's, they realize the A was a deal-breaker for whatever reasons. Others decide to remain M.

But I think that's why they say it takes around 5 years to get through the betrayal and successfully have R'd.

All the crazy emotions that come with the death of the M have to be worked through while attempting to revive the M.

Infidelity sadly does take away that which is the very fiber of being "married."

how true

However as time progresses, perhaps we stop discussing our feelings. We hate to ruin the moment or we feel like we have already discussed this..

This is indeed a real scenario for us.

We did have a lengthy discussion last week. It ruined the moment, it ruined a couple days, but she continued to offer, 'If you need to talk, I'll answer anything.." and I felt better after a day or two.

Maybe the answer (or the avoidance of the problem) is in the continuing to talk about it. Maybe infidelity is something that you never "get over" but instead something that you agree to now face together - for the rest of your life.

Do you know if this is the case with a majority of truely R'd couples?