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I am sorry np5

Why was your first response with your daughter to cover for your wife? (i.e. saying it might be the cousin?). i think asking if she is sure is fine, but don't offer to cover anymore. You have already told your children, your wife is doing this in front of them, they already are in this.

Have you found a family counselor for *all* of you to deal with this, particularly your children?

Good on you for asking her to leave. But, long before those 3 weeks are up, I think you need to start figuring out a plan to financial security and next steps *without your wife.* She may not wake up, she sure as hell hasn't for over... 18 months now? Promises and more breaking of promises and more promises... the cycle will continue as long as you'd like.

I think others may be right in that it doesn't matter how she feels, she can't stop herself. And it isn't your job to save her. Or cover for her. It is your job to be healthy *to you* and *to your children.*

What are the next steps should your wife not get the epiphany you'v been waiting so long for? Do you know your legal rights for your state? Have you consulted attorneys? Do you have financial plans in place?

NP5...

It takes two to save a marriage...sigh

YOU are the only one putting forth any effort.

Please read what spaceghost has done.

You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.

You told your kids your WW can't be friends with OM..because of what HE asked her to do???

Good Lord. Stop blaming everyone else for your wife's behavior.

She chose to have affair.

She chose to go to a hotel,get naked, and "lean into" OM.

She chose to involve two of your kids in her affair.

She breaks NC.

She is responsible for her actions.

Unless she is a very stupid woman, she has known all along exactly what she was doing. Because, honestly, you write about her like she is a child who doesn't understand anything at all.

You said your vows again?????

She is still having an affair. Her breaking NC, and those warm, fuzzy feelings she has for OM clearly indicate this is still, at the very least, an ea. Her saying vows to you was nothing more than her manipulating you into thinking she *really* gets it this time.

I'm not sure if it's a parent/child dynamic going on here, or if you like playing KISA. But it's unhealthy.

Your poor kids. They need therapy. This is imperative. Otherwise they will grow up and seek out relationships that mirror what they grew up with. The chances of your daughters seeking out men who will cheat and abuse them is sky high. What would you tell your daughter when she comes home crying because her husband has had an affair, and refuses to stop contact? Would you tell her to hang in there? Stick it out. Divorce is not an option? And when she gets a an STD that renders her unable to have kids? Or HIV? What would You tell her? Think about that. And then give yourself the same advice.

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:44 AM, February 23rd (Monday)]

I'll keep it real short.

Whenever I post to a BS, I think immediately of the them, and their children...if they have any. And in your case, the children have been at the forefront, simply because they are not only aware that something is wrong, but have already been used by your WW for deceptive reasons.

And then YOP posts. And I think even more about the kids, because he offers a view that I never thought of in the same level of depth that I do now.

So, no 2x4s coming your way, but the one thought that is crossing my mind: do you think that your WW will manipulate your children even further with this latest discovery? Do you think, with what has just happened in the last few days, that your DD would have come forward with the Skyping information if she knew what the fallout would be?

NP5,

I know you want to save your marriage. But, dude, its like you are counting on winning the lottery, sinking all of your resources into that long shot and then not understanding why you are always broke.

It is time to start investing in a solid foundation towards healthy living. If you would go forward with your separation plan (splitting time with kids and parents like you suggested), there is nothing to say that your wife cannot prove her actions will actually match her words during that agreement. After so many false starts, I fear that things will never really change for you and your kids unless you move on to the next step.

Just be healthy and help your daughters to be healthy, your wife's healing (if she truly does want that) is her own responsibility.

ETA: One more thought, if you do R with her, you need to know everything. It is time for a polygraph. If she refuses, then you know her words are just that, words.

(((((NP5))))).

[This message edited by TigerLilyxx at 10:59 AM, February 23rd (Monday)]

I just can't help but thinking that your daughter knows what is going on, knows it's wrong and is now watching to see what her Daddy does about it. It seems like she expects you to do SOMETHING.

Don't let her grow up thinking that this is how marriages work. Show her that her Daddy can make the hard decisions. Show her that her Daddy is a man. A good man. A strong man.

She may not see understand ALL of this right now, but she will when she starts looking for her own man. Give her the right tool to measure him.

Hey NP5,

I don't often post, but I have kept up with your thread.

What is WW doing to show you she means it this time? Has she read any of the recommended infidelity books? Is she going to IC? Has she agreed to post here more often?

As others have pointed out, watch her actions, not her words.

Wow.

I hope that one day soon you realize the damage this woman is single handedly doing to your children.

Her words mean nothing even when accompanied with tears.

Have her show you by her actions.

In the meantime in the next 3 weeks set some goals for yourself.

1. Find a lawyer.

2. Find therapy to help your kids.

3. figure out a way to split your time, without you giving up your home to her.

I will say it again. Until she has real and serious lasting consequences her changes are not real, and will not last.

For Gods sake man, if you don't do it for you do it for your kids. You are allowing your wife to abuse all of you. That is not ok.

Sofa,

Before she was very sorry. Now she is very very very sorry. Before she wouldn't do it again. Now she won't do it ever ever ever again...

I don't have the answer. I won't ever have the answer.

She has read "NOT just friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" twice. She has the knowledge. She just doesn't see it or understand deeply what it means. She is addicted to the feeling she got, I would assume. What other choice is there? That she is purposefully trying to have me kill myself? I do think she loves me, it's just that she's broken and she has lost her will.

One thing she did say last night, that she would "Prove them all wrong!" Good! You do that Edith! There is some will there! Use that, at least, to defend me and our family!

I will say that her anger to me has abated drastically. At least she isn't raging at me any more. Perhaps it is a realization that the time is up and she needs to make a choice now, or it will be too late. I really can't take another NC violation. I am exhausted.

She is going to IC. Her latest got cancelled by a winter storm and was rescheduled for tomorrow. Had she gone, perhaps she wouldn't have chosen to break NC.

What do the children know? I'm not sure as they have been talking with each other about it, and not to me. I have tried to reassure them that their mom and I love each other and are working on this issue and that I am NOT OK with her being friends with him.

Words do matter. If she shows concern or talks the remorse, either she is lying or she is sincere. What I can't take right now is being without a care for my suffering, which is what I have had for 18 months. She says she's "so sorry for having hurt you!" Then she sees him in a hotel room. WTF? If you really were sorry, then you would stop. You didn't stop, so perhaps what you were sorry about is that I found out the truth.

Edith, do you want a stupid doormat husband that feels no pain because he is clueless? Or do you want a husband that trusts his wife because she has earned that trust? Your actions tell me you want a stupid doormat. Your sorrow is just for the consequences of being caught.

Did you have sorrow about your actions before I told you that I knew about the Skyping? I don't think you did.

You tell me "Please don't do this!!" Did you beg yourself that before you picked up the phone? That's when the plea should have been made, to yourself. Not after the deed was done to avoid consequences.

Hey brother.

Your last paragraph exactly described the difference between remorse and regret. If she was truly remorseful, even the thought of contacting the OM wouldn't cross her mind except to be repulsed. If she's still worried about consequences, it's regret and only a matter of time before she tries again.

Strength

[This message edited by 5454real at 1:37 PM, February 23rd (Monday)]

NP5,

I've stayed out of this until now. You need to hear some hard truth. Please know that I am not trying to hurt you, I am trying to wake you up.

Edith does not give a fuck about you. She. Does. Not. Give. A. Fuck. It's been 18 months and she still hasn't managed even the most basic NC. He is a ray of sunshine on a gloomy day?? What is she? A twelve year old girl?

She has manipulated you every single step these last 18 months. Think about that. A year and a half. Over 500 days. That's a long time. If she gave a fuck, she'd have made some progress by now. She posted here twice. She hasn't been back. Even after she begged you to give her another chance, and said she'll prove us wrong, she isn't taking advantage of one of the best resources out there for a WS. She just isn't making any true effort.

Please, NP5 wake up. Please see her for who she is. She is incredibly damaged and you cannot save her. And she doesn't want to save herself. If she truly did, she would be moving heaven and earth to do it. Look at the Wayward Forum. Read the posts from the truly remorseful. Notice how very, very different they are from your wife.

Please stop letting her kick you in the heart. And please get your kids out of this nightmare. Because I promise you, this is a nightmare for them. Only you can save them. Please find your anger at least for them.

(((((((HUGS))))))

I know you're a good guy and you think we just don't understand. But we do. We really do.

Do you still have an agreement not to read her posts on here?

I think you are doing yourself another huge disservice by not reading what she is posting here.

I have told her I will not read her posts and I am going to honor that. Please don't tell me what she posts or others say on her posts.

I have, however, given her OK to read only this thread of mine. She is not expressive in writing while I am much less expressive verbally. She can really talk for hours and hours. We're different that way and its one thing I really like about her.

I don't think she could do much more blameshifting and gaslighting than what I have already heard in the last 18 months, so little would surprise me...

notperfect5 - is there a reason you are not removing your children from that school? The director knows and has not removed the teacher. Why are you still sending your children there? There are many places where children can learn music. They don't need to be near this 'man'.

Also, why are you discussing your wife and her boyfriend with your children? That sounds wildly inappropriate.

Have you given any thought to what your children are learning from this? Children model themselves after their parents. Yours are learning to treat people like dirt, and to accept being treated like dirt. You would be doing them a far greater service by removing your wife than you are by allowing her to stay.

You do know she was with him last Monday night, right? Her story about being followed into the bathroom was garbage - made up by an attention hungry nutcase that wants you to think every man wants her. And then staying at the dance club until last call and finally going to her friends house? The story is pathetic. I think you know the truth, but you don't want to believe it.

I do think she loves me, it's just that she's broken and she has lost her will.

I'm sorry - but that woman loves no one but that woman, and I'm very sorry to say, but I don't think it's her that is broken and has lost the will.

She is going to IC. Her latest got cancelled by a winter storm and was rescheduled for tomorrow. Had she gone, perhaps she wouldn't have chosen to break NC.

Stop making excuses for her. She's been lying and playing you for 18 months, and you're going to try and suggest that ONE IC appointment would have stopped her continued breaking of NC? Seriously?

Why do you want so desperately to deny what you know is true? Surely this pathetic excuse for a wife is not worth all of this heartache. She's teaching your children some of the worst life lessons there are to learn, and she's nothing but a lying slug to you, and yet you continue to act like she's some misunderstood saint.

SHE IS A LYING CHEATING PIG!!! SHE ISN'T SORRY AND SHE WON'T STOP!!! YOU NEED TO END THIS - IF YOU DON'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOURSELF, PLEASE CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN TO TEACH THEM THAT PEOPLE THAT BEHAVE THIS WAY FACE CONSEQUENCES.

NP5

Listen to the people . There are a majority of people posting to you who believe you got one of the stupidest and least believable story about last Monday night that we have ever heard. You took her word for it. The reason she is under so much stress right now is because she has seen your reaction to the skype thing and she knows there is a lot more from last week that you do not know . It's called guilty conscience .

A good PI I am sure could get the surveillance footage from that club and find out if musical was there .

If not there is your first polygraph question .

But you must want to find out the truth . You say you are exhausted . We all believe you . It is exhausting just reading what she is putting you through .

Has she admitted to anything? That is the FIRST step in her truly being "sorry".

Edith, do you want a stupid doormat husband that feels no pain because he is clueless? Or do you want a husband that trusts his wife because she has earned that trust? Your actions tell me you want a stupid doormat. Your sorrow is just for the consequences of being caught.

What do you want np5? Remove "Edith" from those questions above and direct them at yourself, and be strongly aware that you cannot control her actions. It is not wrong or selfish to have needs, expectations, hard boundaries, and consequences. She is concerned with only her own wants right now. She doesn't need you to look after them too. Who's looking out for yours and your children's?

Notperfect

Has your wife ever looked for a job at the school?

It could save her a lot of driving, the schooling could cost a lot less for employees and it will keep her busy during the day.

It worked for us.

HM

Edith, do you want a stupid doormat husband that feels no pain because he is clueless? Or do you want a husband that trusts his wife because she has earned that trust? Your actions tell me you want a stupid doormat. Your sorrow is just for the consequences of being caught

The thing is that WS don't consider their spouses during an affair. So she isn't doing things against *you* most likely.

A complete rephrase of this should be - Edith, who do YOU want to be? An authentic person who has healthy relationships? Or someone sneaking around and living two complete lies - one with your family and one with your AP.

And then a second one, NP5 - who do *you* want to be?

Don't expect her to save you, she can't even save herself. And you can't save her, and you really don't want a wife that needs to be "saved" from herself anyway.

I am sorry for anyone but your children. They are square in the middle with no advocate. I to was in that position and it is painful. I am sorry but you need to get an attorney and file. Your wife is teaching your children to lie for her, cover up for her. Your teaching them she isn't to be trusted they have to be her watch dog. Now how screwed up.are these kids going to be. And your big thing is to save the marriage. I am not being pc. But to he'll with the marriage save the children.

There is no reason to read her posts.She has a fog filled head.

Dude I do feel for you, but you have a choice your children have none in this hell.

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 7:35 PM, February 23rd (Monday)]