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I would have already filed for divorce if I was in you shoes. The fact that you haven't leads me to believe that you don't care all that much about the sexual part of all this - just the fact that she's spending all her time with this POS. If that's the case - the sex isn't the killer for you - than you might be able to just wait her out. She'll either get tired of all this crap and come back to you or she will file for divorce herself. Either way you can just sit back and accept the plan B thing and let her decide how your life is going to proceed.

[This message edited by theDrifter at 1:04 PM, March 21st (Monday)]

I am glad you are filing for divorce. Based on my own situation, I believe that some forms of middle aged craziness have elements of literal delusion and addiction, and the best way to recenter the wayward is make them see reality by having consequences. You filing for divorce isn't just the best thing for you--it is the best thing for her, too.

And using the same analogy, taking care of the kids and house while she parties and cheats is, essentially, enablement.

Snap her out of the mania by letting her hit bottom quickly.

Then, afterwards, you can figure out what makes sense for you both longterm.

Not sure what you two are debating over, I agree with most of the stuff both of you, as well as others, have said.

Look, I did do some stuff wrong, obviously, but she's using that as her excuse to behave the way she is. Why be accountable and feel guilty when you can justify it and blame me instead?

I know I'm not responsible for the way she's acting, that's on her, but it IS codependent issues. Yes, a part of codependency is someone putting their energy and focus into someone else, to avoid looking at themselves, but there's another part of it. The part where the codependent person has built up anger, fear, pain, and resentments, and doesn't know what to do with it, so they blame the other person.

That's where she's at with me. She's not a bad person, she's a sick person. She's still 100% responsible for her actions, and I'm still pissed, but that's what's going on.

All this, "she's a cheating, lying whore bitch, dump her" I can do without. I look at her as a sick person, not a bad person. I don't know how this ends, I really don't, but that's how I feel and where I'm at. She is doing things that made her skin crawl over the last 20+ years, lying, cheating, adultery, etc. So what's the real her?

JM, you're doing fine, keep moving forward with D. The process takes time so you can make a final call later.

Meantime, you probably already know that the sick/bad distinction doesn't matter right now. Because right now she's taking a chainsaw to your family and that needs to be contained.

I know it's hard not to diagnose her, but you can get into all sorts of trouble trying to base decisions on what particular flavor of fucked up she is. Try to avoid it.

"What particular flavor of fucked up she is".....LMFAO

There is nothing wrong with choosing to try to work it out with someone who is actively cheating on you. This is your life and if that is your choice then so be it. I think what the others are trying to say is sometimes you have to be willing to end the marriage in order to get the other persons attention. Right now all your doing is allowing her to continue with this behavior. Sadly waiting this out might not be in your best but that is up to you. Cheating is not a illness. Its a choice. I personally would avoid any physical contact with her as long as you allow her to keep this up. The last thing you need is a STD on top of this heartache.

I personally agree with the others about filing but it is a personal choice and you can choose to do what is best for you.

Good luck.

I think your going to need it.

C

*What's the real her?*

Actions, not words.

You didn't cause this. You can't control her. You can't cure her.

In the Healing Library, look up BS FAQ # 11. It's called the 180. Protect yourself and your kids. Sometimes they need to hit rock bottom and bounce once or twice in order to seek the help they need. Don't let her actions take you and the kids down too. Be an example to them of how to deal with a crisis.

Strength

the question becomes how much do you help as opposed to how much do you protect yourself ?

I am one who feels divorce is the main option. yes. No names launched her way but certainly she's not behaving in a normal, rational way.

I was afraid she was using some of what was discussed to justify her behavior based on the initial post but I saw how she took it and ran with it.

Let me ask you this; how many opportunities have you given her to reverse her course of behavior ?

What is it that makes her believe she is entitled to do this ?

Have you ultimatumed her yet ?

What is your specific gameplan ? File for divorce, then what ?

How do you know this is a sickness versus greedy behavior ?

[This message edited by Western at 1:31 PM, March 21st (Monday)]

JM, I'm with you on several levels here. Foremost, so glad you're back to meetings. I had a similar experience, active in AA for 10 years, slowly slipping away from meetings, then going back after DDay. The program saved my ass during the shit storm of my wife's infidelity. I don't plan on being inactive again.

We did the whole sex game thing too, apparently going much farther than you and your wife. Just the same, sex wasn't the problem. Dishonesty, lying & her state of mind were the problem.

That said, I agree. They're not bad people, they're sick people. But until she wants to get well herself my instincts suggest that your best move is to play hardball, as it's often prescribed here on SI.

Good luck. Take care of you now, and the kids. The meetings will go a long way in making thathappen.

DR

Include a card with the note "Good Luck finding out if there is better out there. You are off to a wonderful start."

Love this!

I agree. She wants to see if the grass is greener while keeping you on the back burner. No No No. Don't let her do this to you.

Western wrote - "What is it that makes her believe she is entitled to this?"

This one I can answer. Not too sure of the other questions. Again, it goes back to her codependent issues. Her position is, and has been, she is full of fear, pain, anger, and resentment. In her mind, I made her this way. It's my fault, I caused it. And so, yes, she blames me for everything that is negative or wrong in her life, and so she can justify her actions because she "deserves" to do this.

Classic codependency behavior. Anything to not look at yourself and the issues in your life that bother you. Again, I'm not justifying her behavior, or I wouldn't be this pissed off, but she's a sick person, not a bad person. Our therapist agrees with this assessment.

Look, I did do some stuff wrong, obviously, but she's using that as her excuse to behave the way she is. Why be accountable and feel guilty when you can justify it and blame me instead?

I believe you meant "rationalize," not "justify."

There is no "justifying" her actions thus far. None.

In any case, I believe you're on the right track now. Good luck, and come join us for a beer over in the Menz thread under "I Can Relate."

DailyReprieve- yes, I know the game,and it was supposed to be based on honesty and openness, not dishonesty and secrets.

Come join you guys for a beer?

"You're killing me Smalls...."

Come join you guys for a beer?

We do have root beer in there. And ginger ale.

And there's no judgement on people who do not partake, as long as you can tolerate the fart jokes.

Besides... the beer's all virtual, anyway.

What caused me some confusion is, it seems the concensus on here is to file for divorce, to try to shake some sense into her. Bring her back to reality. And then I have our therapist saying, "maybe the best thing to do is let her go, fall flat on her face, and let her realize the mistakes she's making", basically, stay out of it and take care of myself.

So do I listen to the professional, or everyone else that has gone through it?

Great, not only do I not get to drink, I have to listen to farther jokes.

This must be my lucky day......

And then I have our therapist saying, "maybe the best thing to do is let her go, fall flat on her face, and let her realize the mistakes she's making", basically, stay out of it and take care of myself.

So do I listen to the professional, or everyone else that has gone through it?

I may have missed something, but I don't see any contradiction between the advice you've been given here and what your therapist is saying - the only difference being that your therapist may not be advising you to file the divorce paperwork.

As any number of the betrayed husbands here will attest, filing that paperwork is the biggest bucket of ice water you can legally deliver to your wife to shake her of the notion that you're going to willingly remain her "Plan B."

Here's where the comedy portion comes into play -

I went to my AA meeting last night and there were roughly 100-150 people there. There was a newcomer who was there with her 2 year old son, Tyler. I bring clementines with me to the meetings, so I reach across the table to give him one. When he's done, he comes up to me and asks for another. He sits down next to me and eats it. Then he wants potato chips from the vending machine, so I ask his mom if it's OK, she says "of course". He puts his arms out to pick him up, and carry him over to the machine. He puts the $1 in, presses the buttons, and I turn around to carry him back, and all the women there are looking at me. I'm getting the "guy in the park with a puppy" look.

After the meeting he's hanging out with me, and I give him a big hug and tell him to keep bringing his mom back because she's worth it. Again, I notice all the women watching me. I went into that meeting feeling like crap, and this little boy brought up my spirits.

Now the funny part is, this is who I am. It's what I am. Help others whenever I can. My wife doesn't consider me a real man, or respect me. She wants to hang out with this guy in the club and smoke weed (at least once that I know of) and find someone that "She can depend on, and that will take care of me, and share my life with".

On her mind, it's the guy partying and smoking weed in the club, not the guy trying to help other people. Oh well.

there's a difference between the therapist and here because;

1) You can't 'let her go and fall on her face' because you are married to her, attached to her financially and she has access to your house and kids. It's not like a girlfriend who you can dump easily.

2) The harder she falls, the more damage you will have to clean up when she comes crawling back

3) because it will hurt you to continue seeing the trainwreck occur

As long as she even has the title of Mrs. JM, your name is on it.

Ask your therapist this question If she goes out and has 7 boyfriends and has one or two kids over the next three years and comes back because she has burned herself out, do I simply say 'welcome home, I am glad you are back " ?????

How experienced is your therapist in infidelity ?

BTW, I suggested divorce not even to knock her off the fence but to protect yourself and the younger kids

What caused me some confusion is, it seems the concensus on here is to file for divorce, to try to shake some sense into her. Bring her back to reality. And then I have our therapist saying, "maybe the best thing to do is let her go, fall flat on her face, and let her realize the mistakes she's making", basically, stay out of it and take care of myself.

The only difference between the two sets of advice is one to watch her do this while in the process of divorce (which can be stopped at any point before the final signing) and watching her do this while you are married and not filing.

There could be some legal risks watching her do this while you are married. Bills she might rack up smoking weed, hanging out in bars and with this OM are also half your bills.

Being married does have legal ramifications while she is out finding out for herself.

Might be one question you ask your lawyer friend, how could this affect you financially...staying married while she is out doing this.