SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I guess I don't know if "on your case" is the best way to describe it. If you'd prefer not to get my advice, I can certainly stop posting it for you.

Some of what I say is hard, but I truly do intend to help.

Good luck in your reconciliation.

XHZ- Not anything now aday's just those first few posts, I was like what did I do to this guy. I get it now, I don't mind it, I know where you are coming from, and I know your general stance on things, and I know you know my story.

Some of the things you are taking as "attacks" are meant to help you open your eyes so you can gain self-awareness.

You seem to want to go on the defensive rather than being open to what people are trying to help you understand. Developing some humility would help with that.

As to the unhealthy shame and genuine remorse, I am curious as to how you feel they can coexist, given that shame causes people to turn inward and away from others.

As a side note, I, a human female care a WHOLE LOT MORE that I was exposed to STD's without my consent than I care about 3 lazy words. I would love it if some posters would stop acting like all people fit into boxes according to their genitals. It is rude, especially when you are speaking for a group to which you do not belong and it is AGAINST the guidelines of this website.

That said, PP - I think you have come a very long way in 16 months but defensiveness 99.5% points to where we need to dig. I do it too. Also digging pretty much sucks and we can get burnt out so take care of yourself and step back when you need to.

The word mistake rankles and hurts the hearts of many BS's which you are aware. Mistakes are thoughtless, affairs require a lot of careful planning. Mistake minimizes the betrayal and a wayward's agency in the affair, even if you don't intend that. Your BS might not mind that word at all, but it is good to be mindful when posting on a website full of people having the worst times of their lives because someone they loved couldn't be bothered to think before they acted.

I think that we all could use more thinking before we post.

We are human, waywards included. We aren't always mindful. It is easier and better I have found to own when we are less mindful and apologize for any hurts we may have caused when someone points it out. Everyone fails at this sometimes though, myself included.

XHZ- Not anything now aday's just those first few posts, I was like what did I do to this guy. I get it now, I don't mind it, I know where you are coming from, and I know your general stance on things, and I know you know my story.

I don't remember exact things, just that you were pretty foggy. Everything I post, I try to measure against whether I think it could be helpful, even if sometimes harsh. If I overstepped, my apologies, but my goal is always to help in a way that I think will be effective.

I didnt post as an attack but to state the truth.

Men and women who cheat when they get caught regret getting caught and the restrictions placed upon them by their spouses.

(Like no opposite sex members as friends, no more happy hours, no more being friends with those who hid affair, no more locked phone, open access etc)

By posting stating women are more remorseful than men, you are basicslly saying. Honey Im more remorseful so you need to deal with it.

You need to stop this kind of thinking.

Women are not more remorseful than men. You knew the moment when you felt dirty about the relationship was wrong and you continued it. There are men that did it and women.

Quit trying to sugar coat your own recovery. If I were your husband Id consider your responses and this post as a , see... im More remorseful, get over it.

Work on you and fix why you decided to cheat, not on see world Im more remorseful. That kind of think is what got you where you are today.

[This message edited by Txquail at 2:40 PM, June 29th (Friday)]

I just want to say a few words in defense of pinkpggy-

One, we often get into semantics in this site. I understand bs folks don’t like the work mistake in regards to an affair. I️ can understand that because the word is broad. People order a burger at a restaurant and it comes back with ketchup and you asked for no ketchup, that is a mistake. But the definition of mistake says action or decision that was misguided or wrong. So by definition an affair could be construed as a series of mistakes. It’s a series of decisions that is misguided or wrong.

Maybe I know Pinkpggy a little better than others. I know how hard she has struggled and still struggles. Attacking that to me is a mistake- it’s miguided. She got upset in this thread, and people interpret it as wayward behavior. I interpret it as someone who is frustrated about feeling misunderstood. And I can see the projections of that so clearly. I think this stems from her confessing to the group that she has broken nc (indirectly) and has been caught in a lie recently. I can see this is triggering to some, but really, let’s have some compassion here. She was willing to be vulnerable in a “support group”. We need to encourage these kinds of confessions if we are to help anyone. All we are teaching here is that waywards cannot share their drawbacks in the journey to be better. We are all trying to get out of infidelity or we wouldn’t be here, why do we have to have such a poor reaction to someone who is stumbling but trying to learn from the stumble? I just see no humanity in that. Pinkpggy I hope you will stick around and I am glad you are gear sharing lessons for others.

Well said, hikingout.

Thanks for posting what I was thinking Hikingout. The frustration level seemed really high in this thread.

I generally agree with HikingOut, but the thread title is perhaps the problem.

I haven’t read the whole thread so maybe I’m missing it, but I’m curious as to how the leap was made from pp’s original post about the difference between male and female typical use of support forums and the perceived difficulty of a WW/BH couple reconciling as opposed to WH/BW, to SHE being accused of arrogantly trumpeting HER own remorse. I didn’t see anything even remotely like that in the OP.

Thank you. People may be astounded to know the amount of PMs I got after my posts these past few days. The majority from BS saying they understood what I was saying and to keep posting and don't get down. BS that I had never seen post anywhere.

I appreciate all the back up.

Truly, the only opinion that matters to me is my husband's. We've had a great week so I must be doing something right!

Darkness Falls- people were pulling in info from a post I made in Monday as well as a few responses I gave to another poster. They were "let down" by my responses\actions and applied it here. It just kind of all spiraled. Apparently in the eyes of some BS I couldn't get it right. It's just ironic that this has been an awesome week for me at home! Lots of good news, good talks, good dinners, and good sex!

I hear you on the only opinion mattering being your husband’s. Glad things are going well!

So happy to hear you have had a good week on the home front Pinkpiggy!

The best example of this, IMHO, is testimonials from women who lose a lot of weight, or women who get plastic surgery. Suddenly, men treat them very differently. Not "one man", men in general.

Actually, this works for both genders. Men who fix something unattractive, i.e., lost weight , got toned, fixed bad teeth, more hair, eye contacts, dress well, etc. will find more attractive women looking their way.

Attractive people in general, male or female, will draw more sexual interest from the opposite sex.

[This message edited by shiloe at 9:42 PM, June 29th (Friday)]

I didn't read the whole thread, it appears to have veered away from the original question. In my limited experience both as an outside observer in friends' A's and as a very young WW myself in my first M, women are (IMO only) definitely NOT more remorseful. And this was also the opinion of my IC, that many women who have A's are not cake eaters, but are basically done with the M by the time they cheat. So they have "reasons" and justifications for why they do it.

In my case specifically, I was not remorseful. I told him I was going to do it before I did it, and it was an exit A. I saw it as my only out for someone who would not divorce me.

Of course this was wrong and skewed thinking and I was very remorseful after this happened to me and I know how it felt like 30 years later (great, right?) I actually wanted to apologize to my ex, but I didn't want to open old wounds 30 plus years later.

Anyway, I personally have found way more men who cheat who have no thoughts of leaving their M, but most women I have known have been the opposite.

my 2 cents.

Shouldn't true remorse be about how the other person feels? Not about how the other person feels makes you feel? I mean isn't that sort of the whole parent child in jail thing. The parent bails the child out of jail because of their guilt and they don't want to be in pain because their child is having it hard. Enabling the bad behavior out of their own guilt and shame. Where a good parent would allow the kid to sit in jail for a time and learn for the good of the child instead of giving into their own shame. I see a lot of what some call their remorse actually being about the person feeling pain, but the focus is not on the other person's pain as much as it is on their own pain for causing pain. Just saying. This whole thing seems to be more about what other people think and about how they view your remorsefulness and you need to get past needing that affirmation and validation. If you are more worried about how you are viewed and how being viewed a certain way (whether right or wrong in your opinion)makes you feel, you just aren't there yet. Up to you to trust the people that have already been there or the BS that never went there because they were healthy enough to never even go somewhere that a healthy dose of conscience wouldn't consider. Just saying, some of us consider true remorse to exists when defensiveness is gone. Personally, I think there are stages to remorse. I don't doubt you have it. Plenty of us thought we did and know we felt something. But, when I stopped the shame and guilt and really focused on who I had become and owned it-defensiveness was no longer there. Being called a cheater or asshole or whatever no longer bothered me. I didn't worry about me or how I felt or how she was feeling made me feel. I just SAW her. You just know when true deep remorse gets there. No way to explain it till it happens to you.

No stop sign.

Answer No.

Cheating Wives are just like Cheating husbands.

In most cases they REGRET getting caught.

Then they get upset about how hard it is to work on

Seems to me like more WH walk away from a marriage with children involved, no? Seems likely that a WW might try to “keep” the family together so she isnt a single mom.

Pp,

Wow, I had seen this post before, but not replied, and I saw it was bumped up.

But the post got away from me, and I got tired. Let's just give everyone what they want...burn us all at the stake. We cheaters get what we deserve and none of us are remorseful because we are just mad we got caught. Oh, and it was for sure a choice, and a decision, not a mistake, we are not allowed to use that word anymore, ever. We all shall wallow in self loathing for the rest of our pitiful miserable existence.AMEN.

That says a great deal, and it is so succinct and emotional. And I have felt this at some point, as a WH I suspect many (most) feel that I do not deserve the grace my BW has shown me.

I'm grateful for it, and I wonder if BS's who R have thought their WS got away Scott-free. The only "pain" is pathetic loathing of yourself, is does not even approach the level of pain due to betrayal. I'm remorseful, by no means eloquent, or verbose, and I do not post alot.

Still I thank you for that insight, and how it speaks to me, and reminds me that I do not want to wallow, but make myself better for my BW and kids.