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Just Found Out :
20 years ago but just found out.

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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 4:52 AM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

Atrowspark,

Thanks for your reply. I don’t know what else to do. That’s all she says she remembers. She said because she loved me, nothing sexual happened. So I guess I have to take that and just go with it. I don’t think I could compare my situation to the horror stories I’ve heard about on this site.

posts: 28   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2019
id 8421276
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 9:49 AM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

Hi Reen,

I am glad that your wife has provided some more information about that evening. From your reading here, you will probably have come across the term 'trickle truth', which is where a person reveals details in little bursts, each containing more information than the last.

The reason why so many people have seen red flags is not so much what your wife has said, but the way she has done it. Suddenly bringing up a 'meaningless' event from two decades ago, for no apparent reason. Then claiming to remember no details about it. Then remembering details about it.

It is exactly the same process that people go through when they learn much worse stuff. Like a wife who reveals that she kissed a workmate after a Christmas party, but it was only once, they were drunk, it didn't mean anything, blah blah blah, and it turns out to have been a two year long affair.

So when people see that kind of smoke, they presume there will be a similar kind of fire behind it.

It is clear that your wife knew she should not have gone anywhere with that guy, because she lied about it the following day (not very well, because you detected it immediately). And you were right about her sister knowing about it. Not only did the sister know about it, she actively set it up!

So it is possible that you are getting trickle truth not because your wife spent the night in bed with that guy, but because she knows she did a bad thing by going out with another guy and lying about it, and that the story does not make her or her sister look good.

Essentially, what you are going through now is the same process that you would have gone through twenty years ago had you trusted your gut instinct and pursued it then. It is brand new to you. And that is why it has unsettled you.

In your position, in an attempt to get closure, I think I would ask one more time if she had told me everything, including what happened after they got back to the apartments where they both lived.

And given the close proximity of the guy, I would want to know how much more contact she had with him, and if he tried to parlay that evening into something more. A lot of young guys would have tried to.

As others have said, it is about you reaching a point where you feel comfortable to drop it.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:52 AM, August 16th (Friday)]

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8421351
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:09 PM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

My wife of 19 years just told me last night, after a couple of beers, that she went out with a guy 20 years ago when she was home on summer break from college. “Nothing happened!” We were in a very committed relationship.

Did you ask her why she told this to you that night, out of all nights? What occurred that night that sparked her to bring it up?

So she was an 18-year old, spending a summer in Denver with her sister(s) at an apartment with a pool. She and her sisters hung out at the pool, which suggests that she was confident enough about her looks to be out in public in a swim suit.

There was a guy living upstairs from the sister. I'm certain there were a lot of guys living in the apartment, but this particular guy was one that your WW's sister(s), and/or your WW, got to know. How/when did this happen. Probably at the pool. Young men, in Denver summer heat, around a pool with scantily clad young women, who are sometimes wet from the pool. You get the visuals.

In some fashion, your then-girlfriend told you that she was going to attend a concert with her sisters. The next day, when you asked her about it, she was evasive and awkward. Now, she tells you that, instead, she spent the night dancing in a club with this guy.

Since they lived in the same apartment, did they drive there together? Who drove? Did they drink? Did they drive home? At club closing time, like 2:30 a.m.? Was there no goodnight kiss?

You mention that your girlfriend agreed initially to attend the concert with this guy, even though she had a boyfriend, because she was excited about the band. Excited enough about the band to cross a line she felt important to emphasize, but then not excited enough to actually do what it took to see the band even though tickets were purchased? Everybody knows that concert lines can be long. You either arrive early, or prepare to wait. She obviously wasn't that excited about the band.

I agree with others. This feels like a TT situation.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 6:13 AM, August 16th (Friday)]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4183   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:45 PM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

The key-issue is not what she says or remembers, but rather ARE YOU HAPPY?

Are you OK with her answers? Do you think that 2 months, 2 years, 20 years from now you wont be carrying resentment, anger or questions about this issue?

If you are happy with what you have, move on. Delete SI from your browser history and move on. If you think this site helped you then maybe donate. Any amount helps.

But if you still have a niggling feeling…

I think M1965 post on the unanswered issues is excellent. I would follow his suggestions.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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id 8421398
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 1:11 PM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

M1965, and Butforthegrace,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah it makes sense! Her sister set it up because she wanted my gf to stay in Denver and not go back to Texas, school or me! I knew that, but wow, setting her up with a guy upstairs!

So I guess I’m going through a “trickle truth” situation because I think she knew most of that when I originally asked for it. I think the night she told me, she wasn’t thinking about what impact this would have on me. I think she was in a silly mood and let out something she really didn’t mean to and now it’s too late. She knew it was wrong and I think admitting everything was hard for her because she knew it would hurt me.

And yes , Butforthegrace, I remember the sexually charged environment around the pools (slight exaggeration) at their apartment complex when I brought her home from school earlier that summer. Wet bods every where. I remember being uncomfortable about that during the summer, but all I could do was trust her...and I did.

As far as the band, it was an older group we liked in school, not our favorite really. It was a close, convenient and a cheap thing to do to go see them. I could see them wanting to go to a dance club. My gf and I danced a lot in college. I think their conversation included how she could teach this guy how to 2-step and other country music dances.

So... I guess I’ll continue to draw out the TT and learn a little more...I hope. At this point we are in a happy relationship, I’ll have to look back at our courtship from now on, with less Rose color in my glasses and a little more gritty realism. Overall our relationship has been awesome!

Thank you all so much for helping through this.

[This message edited by Reen at 7:32 AM, August 16th (Friday)]

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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 1:24 PM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

I don’t think I could compare my situation to the horror stories I’ve heard about on this site.

If you took the time to post here, then it deserves attention, no matter what your story is

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8421418
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 11:31 PM on Friday, August 16th, 2019

Hi Reen,

Your last post adds a lot of context to how the 'date' happened. Your wife's sister really is a piece of work!

Her sister set it up because she wanted my gf to stay in Denver and not go back to Texas, school or me! I knew that, but wow, setting her up with a guy upstairs!

Your wife has had a great marriage with you, and her sister could have derailed that for her, purely for selfish reasons. How can people do stuff like that without seeing the bigger picture?

Thankfully, your wife had other ideas, and the relationship survived those attempts at sabotage.

A thought occurred to me about your wife saying she was hesitant about going to the concert with the guy, but he was so enthusiastic that she said yes. Would you say that your wife is a bit of a people pleaser?

Her sister never should have put her in that situation, but she was pursuing her own agenda. It must have been tough for your wife, at the age of eighteen, to be caught between her sister - presumably older - and that guy, both saying she should go, it would be great, etc. Particularly if she is a bit of a people pleaser.

You know your wife better than we do, Reen, and you are smart enough to balance our thoughts against what you know, and come up with something that your gut trusts to be the truth.

And I do recommend trusting your gut. You picked up on something being 'off' in that phone call twenty years ago, and you were right. So trust your gut now, as you gather information. When you reach a point where you feel like you have enough to close the lid on this and leave it behind, do it.

Earlier in your thread, I caught some flak for saying, "...she didn't run off with anyone", and I should have phrased what I meant better.

So here goes!

Your wife was an eighteen year-old girl in a relationship, but not even engaged, and with an older sister actively trying to sabotage her relationship.

It would have been easy for her to go along with her sister's idea of staying in Denver rather than returning to Texas. And it would have been easy for her to have become involved with someone else at that apartment complex and send you a 'Dear John' letter.

She took neither of those easy options. She stuck to her guns, came back to Texas, and the rest - as they say - is history.

Nobody made her do that; she did it because she wanted to, and because she wanted you. And I do not think she was faking that. What would have been the point to fake it?

So even if your glasses have less of a rose tint to them, I hope they still allow you to see the bigger picture.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 1:08 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

M1965,

Thank you so much for your attention and insight! You have expressed the situation better than I could. It was like reading my thoughts as I read your words. It makes sense that an 18 year old would make the decisions she made under those circumstances...I guess!

You are right that we had and still do have a close, loving relationship. Regardless of the reasons she actually went out, she always loved me. I have copies of our texts and letters. No doubt love was always there. At this point , I guess, even if she wanted a last chance stud or, as I’m beginning to believe, a fun night out with “the guy upstairs”, it doesn’t matter at this point as long as I have: acknowledgement, a little remorse and information to fill in the holes.

posts: 28   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2019
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 2:26 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Hi Reen,

I am happy if anything I have said has helped, as everyone else who has contributed will be.

At this point , I guess, even if she wanted a last chance stud or, as I’m beginning to believe, a fun night out with “the guy upstairs”, it doesn’t matter at this point as long as I have: acknowledgement, a little remorse and information to fill in the holes.

That sounds like a plan. And when you have those things, tick the boxes and put this whole episode in your rear view mirror as you and your wife drive into the future.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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Atrowspark ( member #63200) posted at 2:27 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Ask her to take a polygraph and if she passes then be satisfied that you know the truth and let it go. If you merely rely on asking her and hoping she tells the truth then you will have lingering doubts, maybe not much doubt now but years down the road those doubts may grow. It is very important that you are convinced you have the whole story in order to move on. Otherwise you may be back here some time in the future.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2018
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 3:12 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Atrowspark,

Thanks for your input. The polygraph seems a little drastic considering it was 20 years ago and she loved me then as well as now. I’m hoping that I’ll get enough info to put this away and move on. Again, it’s because of the wonderful relationship we have. We are best friends and the thought of not being with her is unbearable!

posts: 28   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2019
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SorrowfulMoon ( member #59925) posted at 3:18 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Ask her to take a polygraph and if she passes then be satisfied that you know the truth and let it go. If you merely rely on asking her and hoping she tells the truth then you will have lingering doubts, maybe not much doubt now but years down the road those doubts may grow. It is very important that you are convinced you have the whole story in order to move on. Otherwise you may be back here some time in the future.

I think there is a good chance that more happened that night and that you also think that deep down.

Your approach is basically rug-sweeping and will fester with you.

You are in a no win situation as taking a Poly does seem drastic and may impact on your long-term relationship with your wife.

You have to balance the two but I would at least give yourself some time to digest before making a final decision.

p.s. just a thought. Imagine the situation when this guy met up with his friends the following day and he told them that all they did was line-dance. How many would have believed that? None I would imagine....

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 9:23 PM, August 16th (Friday)]

posts: 330   ·   registered: Jul. 31st, 2017   ·   location: England
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 4:04 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Sorrowfulmoon,

Thanks for your input!

Your comments are a downer at this point. All I can do now is inquire a little more, then give it up and accept the fact that we were both 18 and young people make more bad decisions than most. It’s because we are best friends and have always been that will give me comfort despite any doubts about what may have happened.

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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 4:10 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Sorrowful moon, you're being melodramatic about the guy telling his friends all he did was line dance on a date. Haven't you ever been out with a member of the opposite gender and not had sex?

Believe it or not, people do that all the time!

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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 8:08 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

I just want basic information like:

Why did you go out with him?

Who was he?

Where and how did you meet?

How was it decided that you would go out with him. Really sister’s idea?

Did you tell him about me?

Where did you go exactly?

Was the concert a real option?

Did you know I felt you were lying about attending the concert with your sister on the phone the next day but I buried it?

What did you do there?

What did you do afterward?

Did you make out in the car? Anywhere else?

Did he take you back to your sister’s or his place?

What time did you get home?

How “far” did you “go” with him?

Did you “go farther” than you planned with him?

How did you feel about it the next day?

Tell me about any and all other encounters you had with this guy!

Did you feel guilty when you wrote a lie in your letter telling me you went to a concert with your sister instead really going out somewhere else with someone else?

Are you being honest?

I don’t expect full truth if there was sexual activity. I’ll just have to live with what she tells me. The other questions, however, I want answered!!! I can put it all together in my head and then be able to finally, let it go! I hope!

[This message edited by Reen at 2:25 AM, August 17th (Saturday)]

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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 11:09 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Hi Reen,

I just want basic information like:

Why did you go out with him?

Who was he?

Where and how did you meet?

How was it decided that you would go out with him. Really sister’s idea?

Did you tell him about me?

Where did you go exactly?

Was the concert a real option?

Did you know I felt you were lying about attending the concert with your sister on the phone the next day but I buried it?

What did you do there?

What did you do afterward?

Did you make out in the car? Anywhere else?

Did he take you back to your sister’s or his place?

What time did you get home?

How “far” did you “go” with him?

Did you “go farther” than you planned with him?

How did you feel about it the next day?

Tell me about any and all other encounters you had with this guy!

Did you feel guilty when you wrote a lie in your letter telling me you went to a concert with your sister instead really going out somewhere else with someone else?

Are you being honest?

I don’t expect full truth if there was sexual activity. I’ll just have to live with what she tells me. The other questions, however, I want answered!!! I can put it all together in my head and then be able to finally, let it go! I hope!

What you have written there is perfectly reasonable, because those are the things you would have asked her at the time.

It can be incredibly hard to work through a list like that in a face-to-face conversation, because they can get derailed or go off in all kinds of directions that prevent you getting the answers that you need.

So I suggest that you put your list in a letter, with a suitable explanation before it. And then give your wife time to work on her response.

I think that could be the most productive way to try and get all of your questions addressed in one hit, and it gives your wife time to examine her conscience before she answers.

The key thing with an exercise like this is how you frame it. It is important to explain what the aim is, why you need the answers, and that you love her.

Just as your wife will spend time considering her answers, you need to look at your questions and consider - honestly - how you will handle the answers. Look at each question and think: "If I get an unpleasant answer to that, what will I do?"

Sometimes we can ask questions wanting the 'best' answer, for reassurance, and when we don't get it, it can be hard to deal with.

It's like a kid being put to bed, asking Mom, "Mom, is there a monster under my bed?", wanting an answer like, "No, sweetie, I just looked, and there are no monsters down there. Sleep well".

What we don't want is for Mom to look under the bed and then say, "Wow, yeah, there's three of them, and they look really angry".

So please take some time to work out what your responses will be if you get a less-than-desirable answer to each question. That is important for both you and your wife.

Your wife providing the answers is 50% of the process; you dealing with those answers is the other 50% of it. It can be a bumpy journey for both of you, so it helps if you prepare yourself for it, and you figure out what you want the final destination to be.

Also, acknowledge before you begin that this will be a tough thing for your wife to do. From what you say, you sound pretty reasonable. You are not doing this to punish your wife, or hurt her. But for her, it may feel that way, so this needs to be done with sensitivity and empathy.

I mentioned how important the framing of this is, and a letter gives you a better opportunity for doing this than a spoken conversation.

If I was doing this, for your situation, I would write something like this:

[Wife],

The reason that I am so bothered about that night twenty years ago is that I knew at the time that something 'off' had happened. You told me in a letter that you went to that concert, but when we spoke on the phone, I could hear in your voice, and in what you said, that you were not telling me the truth.

It hurt, and it bothered me, but I did not pursue it at the time. There were a lot of unanswered questions for me.

Now that evening has resurfaced, all of those unanswered questions have bubbled up to the surface too. And I think it is time that we cleared the air about this.

I want our relationship to be honest and open, and for there to be no barriers built of secrets or dishonesty between us. So I have written down the things that still bother me about that evening, and I hope that we can work together to put this thing to rest.

I want you to know that I love you.

I loved you like crazy back then, and I still do now. And I hope you love enough to be honest with me.

I am not doing this to make you feel bad, or to damage our relationship. I am doing it to get rid of something that has been sleeping in the background of our relationship for twenty years. I am asking the questions that I should have asked twenty years ago, so that we can finally work through it, together, as a couple, and finally be able to leave it behind.

And I think it has bothered you for all that time too, and that is why it came up in conversation a week ago.

Please understand that you have had twenty years to process that evening, because you know everything about it. For me, much about it feels new. That is why I need to have honesty, so that I can process it the way you have, and get closure on it.

I know that this is tough for you, and I would not be doing it if it was not so necessary for me to finally have peace of mind about what happened back then.

This is not about judging you, or putting you on trial. I am not going to judge you based on your answers. I understand that you were eighteen at the time, not the woman that you are now. I know that eighteen year-olds do not have the knowledge, maturity, and experience to always make the best decisions.

I loved you then. I love you now. Nothing is going to change that. [Note - if you are going to say this, be 100% sure in yourself that it is true. You really need to think about this before beginning this exercise].

Please, [wife], give me the honesty that I need to be able to get past this.

Now, if this approach does not feel right for you, that is fine. These forums work best when people kick ideas around, work out the pros and cons, and weed out the ideas that will not help someone get to where they want to be.

As I close this post, I want to return to what I said earlier about you preparing yourself for receiving some tough answers to tough questions.

If we ask a question desperately needing a certain answer, it can be devastating if we do not get it. Look at your questions, think about the best and worst case scenarios in terms of the answers they may receive, and consider how you will handle them (and if you can handle them).

My thoughts are with you, Reen.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 11:48 AM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

... and keep in mind (while hearing the answers) that she was only a teenager at the time, not as an excuse, but for context.

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8422047
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 4:38 PM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

M1965,

Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually thinking about writing letter to express my words as well, but I think it’s too formal for us. I am however going to print out the questions to have as a reference as the conversation continues. If she claims to not remember enough of this information then that would be a problem. I can’t stand the idea that she is not being forthcoming at this stage. She knows I’m not going to judge her by today’s standards. She also knows how much this has spun my world around. I’m a little anxious about how it’s going to go down. I really believe that once the lies have been corrected in my mind, I’ll be good to go. I hope a revelation of full blown sex doesn’t derail me emotionally!

posts: 28   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2019
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 Reen (original poster new member #71259) posted at 4:43 PM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Shutterhappy,

I’ll keep her age at the time in mind. I remember, like most guys, talking about how hot some girls were, just guy talk. I never considered cheating. Not even the couple of times I was “hit on”, including once that summer she was gone.

Thanks Again

posts: 28   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2019
id 8422172
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 8:33 PM on Saturday, August 17th, 2019

Hi Reen,

I was actually thinking about writing letter to express my words as well, but I think it’s too formal for us.

Go with whatever works for you, Reen. I hope you get the answers that you need.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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