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In my opinion, WW has no right to decide what you should or shouldn't do.

You, after all, no right from wrong. Does she?

and your WW has creditability for what reason?

This "pot" stirring could actually be a benefit to you. OM#2 might know more than what's being told and get him angry enough and oops!!

WW is asking me to leave them out of it.

No fucking way!!! This is her shit to own!!! Get that poly asap. There's more...there always is.

WW is asking me to leave them out of it.

She thinks _YOU_ should leave them out of it??? Ha, _SHE_ brought them into it.

One more thing....OM2 will definitely call her on the work phone(that's what she wanted..right?). This...I bet, she will admit to, but will lie about about the context of the conversation. Just getting their stories straight. Textbook serial cheater.

Thank you, I feel validated. I agree, she has no right to decide on this, and it is her shit to own.

We had a discussion last night about "consequences", and I told her that if everything is suddenly back to "normal", and there are no repercussions to her infidelity, then what would stop her from being unfaithful in the future?

I asked her if the tables were turned and I was the WH, how would she respond if she was trying to protect our marriage?

I think I've got the high ground.

WW is asking me to leave them out of it.

No fucking way!!! This is her shit to own!!! Get that poly asap. There's more...there always is.

DITTO

Fuck with you? You'd think your wife was enough. Wish the jackass would gain some self-awareness.

He can't stop you CO, nobody can, so keep doing what's right.

Then, Idiot OM#2 calls her cell while I'm on the phone with her, leaves message saying he's breaking NC because I'm now interfering with his marriage and he wants my number so he can "fuck with me." Lovely guy, it seems.

I wish my fww's OM decided he wanted to fuck with me. I would beat him till near death. If not for my kids I would have done so already. But damn to fuck with you when he is in the wrong. I say give his wife everything you have on him. Fuck him. He is a (a whole bunch of bad words go here).

We had a discussion last night about "consequences", and I told her that if everything is suddenly back to "normal", and there are no repercussions to her infidelity, then what would stop her from being unfaithful in the future?

This is an important point CO. Things will not be normal for a long time (sorry), but it is important that at some point your WW do some digging to figure out what need the A's were filling in her. Why she turned to men outside of her M for affirmation, attention, whatever. Why she was not able or willing to talk to you about these things.

A couple of books my FWW and I found helpful were the often-cited Not Just Friends by Glass, and Sexual Detours by Hines. I found Sexual Detours especially helpful in understanding the dynamic of her A and our M.

There appears to be a long (8 years) history here. You may have most of the significant information, but the experience of many of us here on SI is that you probably don't. The lie detector testing should be a quick way to check that. As for why your WW looked outside of the M, that usually takes some time and IC to begin to work through. Then once you both know why, there may be additional time for her to learn new coping mechanisms to use in place of attention from OM.

In my opinion, her having further phoe or text contacts with OM or not is no longer such a pressing issue. More important is her acceptance and passing the lie detector (including a question about have you broken NC). Engaging and being productive in IC. Her tolerating the anger and inevitable difficulties (roller coaster) you are going to experience. Working through her issues without blaming you and others. Working with you, if you so chose, to restore emotional intimacy and authenticity to your M. If she is still in contact or going underground with the A, then she will not be willing or able to do these things to work on herself and the M. Still, I understand the need for transparency and rebuilding turst (it has to start sometime, it takes seemingly forever), so access to accounts, phones, frequent calls and photos from her to verify locations are all good ideas.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 3:28 PM, June 7th (Tuesday)]

CO- I have been following your story. Stay strong brother!

Do not accept the gaslighting from anyone. You are not too tough, you are not too much.

Your WW wants to leave OM and his BS out of this? Too bad. Your WW and OM gave that up when they started an affair.

She asked you to leave them out of it ??

She's the one who brought the into your marriage in the first place.

I feel bad for all the BPeople in your WW's life.

Regarding OM#2's BW: she needs to have the evidence that is available, especially if her BH is lying to her about the nature of the A. You would want anything she had if the tables were turned. I think you should provide her with the email where her WH admits to a PA, and any more new evidence pertaining to her WH. That's all you can/should do for OM#2's BW.

Your WW got thrown under the bus by OM#1 in his email to her, and now OM#2 is more concerned with protecting his own M than he cares about your WW. I have to admit that I am glad that your WW is being rejected by OMen. That will help her wake up to the fact that she was not so interesting or irresistable as she thought she was. She was just a piece of meat to them...she was just "available."

All her alligator tears sound like so many other WW's we've read about here on SI. She's crying because the gig is over and she is scared things might not go her way anymore, depending on what you do now and in the future. Don't get your hopes up until time and her actions have proven she is actually trustworthy.

Hang in there. You're strong and you have your head and heart on straight.

Glad the liking girls thing is not one more surprise for you to deal with, and was just (another) lie/stupid thing she said to OM.

Just gave OM#2's BW the update and she heard his filthy VM. He's on a business trip for a week and she's cut him off completely. Guess he can enjoy his own fog all alone.

WW goes in and out of her own fog, it seems. After last night, she said she was feeling really good about things. Now, she said with today's events, she's upset and didn't want it to become a soap opera. You can probably imagine what my response to that was.

Thanks for the great advice, all; really good ideas.

Which reminds me, I need to make a big SHOUT OUT to Bigger. Your idea about catching her making contact after confrontation was a complete and utter bullseye. I hope you read this because I owe you one!

Called WW and told her. WW is now upset because of the impact to the BW and their marriage. Then, Idiot OM#2 calls her cell while I'm on the phone with her, leaves message saying he's breaking NC because I'm now interfering with his marriage and he wants my number so he can "fuck with me." Lovely guy, it seems.

You are interfering with his marriage????

OMG...

No, you are interfering with his lie, and waking his wife up to what their marriage/what he really is.

And he wants to fuck with you?

What, more than he already has?????????????

clearly he does not think he is in the wrong.

Don't let your wife feel sorry for him either, or for the repercussions.

I fear her sadness and crying is because of the discovery and mess. give her time before you actually truly believe you are witnessing "remorse" from her.

stay strong. i've been following your story, and admire your strength.

you will be alright, no matter what.

Then, Idiot OM#2 calls her cell while I'm on the phone with her, leaves message saying he's breaking NC because I'm now interfering with his marriage and he wants my number so he can "fuck with me

."

Like he didn't already "fuck with you" when he fucked your WW? It's perfectly acceptable for him to do that but it's not acceptable behavior for you to talk to his BS when you find out about it?

CO, if you can document in a meaningful way not only the call, but the telephone number that profane and threatening call came from, that might be useful to you later, especially if OM #2 continues to harass you (and he sounds like a jackass who might). His behavior might end up rising to an actionable level.

If OM#2 is on a weeklong business trip, he might have placed that call from a company mobile phone. I would be surprised if he didn't, unless he carries two mobile phones with him.

Usually, employers frown on their employees using company property to drum up liability exposure, so if he ends up fulfilling his wish to harass you, maybe having proof of the number from which the call originated will be useful later.

I'd get a copy of the message to his BS, as well. It speaks a lot to his current state of mind (lack of remorse) and is probably crucial information for her. Not a brainy move on his part to leave angry voice mail messages like that.

Lastly, it seems that WW wants you to leave OM#2's BS out of it because she does not want to see OM#2 hurt, inconvenienced, etc., because that in turn hurts and inconveniences WW. How does it help OM#2's BS to be left in the dark?

Protect yourself and family. Ask OW#2 if he owns a gun. You may need a RO.

It would appear that OM#2 is pretty desperate. He emailed WW saying it's now a 'war' and to be prepared for the outcome. Threatening to call the police. Says I'm "vindictive" and that she deserves better than the "asshole" that I am.

I can't think of anything the police would do, when his wife is willingly calling me for information. Last I checked, that's not against the law. He seems to think that NC means only between BS's (WTF??).

I'm not worried. He's several states away (and actually out of the country now).

Aw, the OM is fighting for her honor...ain't that precious.

fantasy world...unraveling...so fast

oh darn!

It would appear that OM#2 is pretty desperate. He emailed WW saying it's now a 'war' and to be prepared for the outcome. Threatening to call the police. Says I'm "vindictive" and that she deserves better than the "asshole" that I am.

I can't think of anything the police would do, when his wife is willingly calling me for information. Last I checked, that's not against the law. He seems to think that NC means only between BS's (WTF??).

I'm not worried. He's several states away (and actually out of the country now).

You may not be worried. . . .but it looks to me like he is threatening violence against you -- either male rape or murder.

You should beat him to the punch - and file a police report. I think complaining to his employer about him using a company cell phone to threaten you should also be considered.