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Kristine,

Originally my H assumed OC was his "b/c she said so". I set his ass straight in a hurry considering the OW self-admittedly "dates around". No way no how was I going to give up everything we worked for over the last 10+ years to a woman who can't keep her panties on let alone get her own man. I helped H find the Barracuda (our lawyer) and he has given us excellent advice so far. He has also told us that we have an excellent chance of winning custody of the OC should it be proven to be my H's. That would kill the OW...

In our case we are willing to uphold my H's responsibility according to the law. The problem is the OW thought she could waltz in and out of our life and demand things she's not entitled to (crib, stroller, etc.). She wanted H to admit paternity and then pay for those things. The problem w/ that is that it's just shy of blackmail. We envisioned a life where she's always in the shadows and we're waiting for the other shoe to drop or the next demand for money to come. Neither one of us could live like that and we both agreed that nothing will happen w/ this OC (if proven) w/o a legal document in place that clearly identifies the responsibilities and boundaries. One of which will be NC and confidentiality. I am going to insist that we request the court records be sealed - permanently if possible.

Let me know if you need anything else.

BW

BW-

So you are waiting for the results of the paternity now right?

I feel like we did the right thing by going to a lawyer. She helped me out a bit. We will not retain her unless the OW files for paternity and CS.

crazed,

Don't beat yourself up. Your H is being immature and insensitive. He is passing his guilt and blame onto you. Don't let him; stand your ground. Hopefully it will get better, but it will probably never be easy, especially if he continues to be an insensitive ass.

Does he know what he may be risking if he continues to blow off your feelings? Perhaps he needs to be reminded?

I hope you feel better soon. I'm going away again for another week. We travel a great deal in the summer, but as usual, I'll be thinking of you guys.

BT,

Know what he is risking...i have to assume that he does. but even if he does it doesn't matter. at the end of the day we probably would end up leaving. b/c what he says that he/we are doing the minimum for this innocent child and that this is a responsibility that he can not walk away from and it is barely the minimum and he is disappointed and discouraged that i am fighting the minimum. the funny thing is that i know that, i have not asked him/us to go no contact. i just want to feel like i can pout from time to time, and from time to time if i feel hurt, i won't be met with "well the choice is you're, you know what MY responsibilities are, you can stay and do this with me or you can go. i can't believe you are going to fight me on the minimum."

what am i missing here you guys? i know that being an ass doesn't help the situation but dammit, what is wrong? if i'm hurt and can't stop being an ass then i guess it will be my fault for making the relationship so unbearable right? so now its my fault b/c i simply can't just accept and embrace it all, especially since he is doing everything right now right? i guess it really should be that simple? and like a damn stepford wife i should have any feelings or voice any thoughts? i don't know.

Thank for you support ladies..

crazed,

Your H is self-centered and self absorbed. While I understand that there are some WS who choose NOT to go NC, that doesn't give them license do act like *you* are the problem. He is being an unreasonable ass.

Your situation (unfortunately) is a prime illustration of the difficulty of R without NC. If your H wanted to see the OC AND respect your VERY UNDERSTANDABLE EMOTIONS, he would figure out a better way of doing it without making you feel like you are the "bad" person in this situation.

It's up to you how often you want to be made out as the bad guy if he does not change his way of addressing you.

I'm sorry you have to be further victimized by this insensitive being.

TAke care

Kristine,

We have not yet received the results of the DNA test. I know it's coming w/in the next few weeks and am trying to mentally prepare myself however close to the edge I currently am!

Crazed,

I know exactly how you feel. There are days when I just want to hear I'm sorry over and over until I tell him to shut up. I want to hear that he screwed up and this is all his fault and he will move heavan and earth to fix it. Unfortunately men don't understand that women need to hear the words. If you ever read Men are from Mars...you'll know that men think actions speak louder than words whereas women need the verbal reassurance. We don't get it, however.

IMO I think you should gently explain to your H that the two of you are a team and need to agree on a plan re OW and OC and stick to it. It's the only way your relationship will work.

Best to both of you,

BW

Crazed you said "b/c he has to pay child support, be a one night a week father, and have to dealing w/ a fucken bitch of a BS."

LOL All things that are HIS FAULT, HIS CHOICE, HIS DOING which ever way you want to put it.

Woman I know you want to work together to repair your marriage. Crazed you have to stand your ground. I am such a B - I would have said something like he created this f--ing Bitch with his ACTIONS - since you are the victim here NOT HIM, NOT slut, not even the OC, YOU.

Its your life that is being turned upside down, you were use to it one way and expected it to change for the better with your husband and your future children. Not the circus he made your world.

The oc is not a victim because it does not know any different-- It didnt have a dad (or husband) that was always there and was use to life one way and now its another, NO the oc has only known its father the ONE day a week and will only know him that way if it continues or only on the phone if one of the parents moves away, but that is the way life is for oc and gee since oc knows no different it is perfectly fine = no life interuptions, no way of living altered, no change for OC. OC was born into that situation and that is oc reality now- so no big woop for OC. Thats life.

Now for you it is completely opposite your life has been interrupted. KWIM

explain that to your LOVING NON SELF CENTERED H

Unfortunately, when you stand up for your self respect..those who are intmidated by your behavior want to label you a Bitch...Well that's just TOO damn bad !...The cowards can always leave .......

I never did a thing to TOW or her life, but be married and loyally blind to my WS.......but, after D-Day did I decide to give her everything she wished were true of me ! If standing up for decency and self-respect makes you a bitch...then I am now one too!

I guess she tells all of her "low life pond scum friends" about me now...that I'm that "damn bitch of all bitches" !

[This message edited by lunnychick at 6:04 PM, January 25th (Thursday)]

Crazed,

Do you believe that your husband is being disrespectful to you and to your marriage?

You have every right to draw a line firmly in the sand and let him know that THIS is what I can/cannot tolerate right now. He can choose to ignore that line and you have every right to decide that you've had enough. You are not less of a woman because you aren't able to deal with having an oc in your life. You are not a bitch betrayed spouse. You are a hurting wife that has an insensitive husband.

Are you in IC right now? If not get there quickly. If your husband is up to it get into MC also. The two of you are NOT working as a team. He is making decisions without you and trying to make you feel guilty if you don't agree with him. That's not healthy for you or your marriage. In order for your marriage to attempt in some small way to heal he HAS to be considerate of your feelings. This ain't easy shit! It's a long, slow, grueling process that has many, many ups and downs. I'm almost 4 years out and I still occasionally have major breakdowns.

Your husband isn't supposed to have a child with another woman while he's married to you. If goes against everything we learn. It goes against everything we believe to be right and good. It's like the ultimate betrayal. You don't recover from that kind of stuff overnight.

You say that your husband is only seeing the oc once per week. That's not enough to be a daddy. That's a half-assed attempt at making himself feel less guilty. That child wouldn't miss him if he only showed up once a month because he's not an integral part of it's life. Forgive me if I don't know the details but, has DNA, visitation, child support been established through the courts? If not what's HIS hold-up?

Me

Crazed-

I feel the same way about my H. He sees his daughter for 2 hours every other Sunday with the OW and I am not allowed to be there. They do meet in public. He pays a minimum child support to her that they agreed upon before I even knew about the child. He says he wants to do more becuase he is attached to his child but knows I can't handle it. In the past we have been fighting because I have wanted the NC but he has refused. I felt like he wasn't taking into consideration my feelings and that he was just going to do what makes him happy. But we are now starting to work together on coping with things as they are. We will get the DNA results back next week and if they come back that she is positively his we have some serious talking becuase i cannot continue to allow him to see his daughter witht he OW involved too.

I have been in your shoes. You just ask a simple question about the OC or the visitation or whatever adn the H takes it the wrong way and blows up. He has called me an F%$#ing bitch many times over the OC becuase of the tone I would use with him. My tone though was more becuaes I hate the situation he has put me in more than directed at him. He is starting to realize that when I get bitchy it is not necessarily directed at him but just frustration at what he did and is doing to me. I think I am rambling and I don't know if I made any sense. I don't really have any advice for you but you are not alone in your feeling about the OC and they reaction you get from your H about the OC.

Wow, I am so sad there is so much anger and hurt on this thread this week. crazed and scooter-you have every right to be concerned. Me&my3 said it so well-I couldn't express it any better.

IMO, both your H's are confused and trying to keep EVERYBODY happy. Where they are wrong is that their vows were to YOU--they need to put fixing their marriage first. PERIOD. Demands by the OW can not be allowed. With OC's that are so young, your H's involvement is to absolve some of their guilt towards OW/OC and because of control by OW, not because they are providing any paternal guidance to the child. If your H's want a relationship with the child, there is no reason why it can't wait a few years for their involvement-babies need their moms for care, and it is the OW's responsibility, as she made the decision to have this child. OW is using the child as a pawn to keep your H wrapped in and drive a wedge into your marriage. If H doesn't see this, perhaps you need to make it loud and clear to them. It took my telling H very clearly-at our MC's office-that I could not tolerate a relationship with OC now, and if he pursued one--I would leave. When that came down for us, my H wasn't sure he wanted a relationship-he was still getting over the fact that the child was his and working through those emotions, but what I said was that he can want the relationship, but HE CANNOT ACT UPON IT if he wants his marriage to work. I also told him though that things MAY change in the future and if he would want a relationship later on, we can revisit the subject. For now--IT IS A CLOSED DISCUSSION.

I'm rambling too-this is such a hot button so I can understand why you would be so upset. Hugs to you.

It is a tough road--it sucks.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 7:47 AM, August 17th (Thursday)]

K--

So glad that you are feeling a bit more in control. Sounds like you found a good attny should you need her services in the future. Just always try to remember-this is OW's problem--that she created! Burden of proof, and responsibility for the child she choose to bring into this world is her responsibility.

Hopefully you can focus on your marriage, and prepare yourselves to work together should you have to deal with an OW/OC in your life. Good luck.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 8:52 AM, August 17th (Thursday)]

he has finally started to see that the OW is using the OC as a pawn. Everytime they meet, she tries to make him jealous- talking baout her boyfriend and showing my H love letters from her BF. what a slut. 5 months later and she is still trying to get him back. But before, he was taking it and respond to her tactics but now he just blows her off and tells her he doesn't care about her BF. He wants her to be with someone else. It makes me madder than hell that she continues to pursue him.

Unfortunately, I couldn't tell him that he couldn't see his child. he had to make that choice a nd he had already made it when he told me about her. She was already 7 months old and he was attached to her. I couldn't make him choose between me or her. he told me he would choose me but i know he would have resented me for making him choose. so i am trying to work with him on him seeing his daughter. he knows that the visitations cannot continue as they are he is just waiting now for the dna results. then we will sit donw and try to figure out options that he can take to the OW with out her ending up taking us to court.

Ladies,

Thank you all so much for your support and words of wisdom. No one was rambling and everything makes perfect sense. As we all know, R is incredibly difficult and we have our good days and bad days. Believe it or not most of it is good. His OW was a ONS and she is not fighting for his time or attention. I believe she has no relationship with her father either, so it is hard for me to understand why she would bring a child into this world under the same circumstances. But I will not waste anymore of my time trying to figure out her pathetic life.

I know WS is commited to us and loves me and is good to me, now. Of course that doesn't erase the past and well yes, he can be really insensitive sometimes. He says that he is trying to be patient, and is patient 9/10 times, but every now and then he too may lose his patience. *sigh* the injustices of our lives...hopefully one day we'll all wake up from this and it won't hurt anymore right?

thanks for being here you guys...we all have our moments of triggers and frustrations and after all we've been through...if that makes us a bitch..so be it!! (:P)

I just want to send hugs to everyone. As for me, my husband and I have separated and are just waiting to sell our home we owned together to proceed to the next step. I can no longer accept coming in third. It seems his conscious is first then his responsibility to the OC is second and then there is me. I am tired of getting the short end of the stick.

Phoebe- I totally agree with everything you said.

lunnychick- I am a bitch too. But I am at peace, knowing that I tried to live thru this and it just wasn't meant to be.

The worst part is that we have two beautiful awesome children together who adore their father. My heart breaks everytime I think about that. I have accepted that my marriage will never be and don't miss him as much as I hurt for my children. They are the true innocent victims.

Please pray for the sale of my house so I can go onto phase II and get off this hamster wheel.

[This message edited by overdone at 10:54 AM, August 17th (Thursday)]

twokidsmomny-

Thank you so much for the kind words. I have told my H that if she calls to tell him the OC is born, he is not to talk to her. She can figure out how to deal with things on her own.

Luckily he is not curious as to if the child is his or not. He feels that in his heart and his head that the OC is not his. There is a real doubt since she had an early u/s and it put her at 7 weeks, 3 weeks after he was with her.

I'm having some of the same things going on with our situation. H is so guilty about OW/OC--also guilty about me but as our MC said yesterday, he has one foot on the pier and one in the boat and he's going to fall in soon. He's committed to our M, but his feelings about them colors a lot of our days.

OW and OC live across the country and OC is 7 months old. H has seen him a handful of times, never alone with OW, and I even got to meet baby once (with her there--boy was that fun LOL). But she cannot stand the idea of my involvement in anything and has said that that one meet was it.

So now we're negotiating how to continue visits and a fatherly R with the baby with all these contraints. From reading some of your replies, I see that H is trying to be all things to all of us and that his primary goal should be our M. I think he's seeing that finally, with MC help and much patience on my part--but where it will lead who knows.

I have said to him that OC will not miss a R with him at this age, and if OW can't come to terms with us as a unit, then maybe it would be better to let it go for a few years. She claims to really want her son to have a father in his life, but puts so many obstacles in the way of that because of my existence, that it isn't possible. H says he sees that that might be what has to happen, but can't give up the idea that there must be some way to compromise. Trouble with that is that it means continued talking with her, arguing with her, etc.--hardly the minimal contact necessary for his withdrawl and our reconnection.

We're a year out from d-day and I thought it would be a little easier now--and I guess it is in some ways--I've stopped losing weight and am eating and working okay, but the emotions are still so raw. And I think a good part of that is due to the fact that NC cannot be maintained in an OC situation. So how long do I have to look forward to these feelings being so strong so much of the time?

I also have trouble with the fact that day to day, H is being terrific, does what he should be doing to help me/us heal, and we are having good days together a lot of the time. But this continued intrusion of a difficult OW really throws a monkey wrench into a already awful process.

Now I'm rambling--but it's good for all of us to know we're not alone in these situations--everyone's sitch is different, yet so much the same. Sucks no matter what.

All,

A lot of interesting topics have come up as a result of recent posts. If I may throw in my two cents...

Be very very careful about paying OW CS money BEFORE DNA testing confirms paternity. Here in NY, payment of $$ is considered ADMISSION of paternity. I don't care if the OW claims she and the OC are starving, do not pay w/o proof. Protect yourselves and your family/children at all costs.

Second, if you desire a R w/ the OC and OW doesn't want you there, tough. Once it goes through the courts and H receives visitation, there is nothing the OW can do about you being there. She cannot control who is w/ your H when he is w/ the OC. Remember that your H has RIGHTS too! It's not all about the OW anymore...once they open Pandora's Box and want CS, they give up their exclusivity to the OC. Your H has a much right, if he so chooses, to be a parent to that OC as the OW does. She does not call all the shots anymore.

In our case, we are waiting on DNA confirmation and I am furiously praying it comes back negative. However, I'm prepared (I hope) for a positive result. We've talked about the idea of visitation and possibly custody but have not made any decisions. We are taking a wait and see attitude.

If you are even a bit religious, or even superstitious, say a little wish for me that my nightmare ends. I'm doing the same for each of you.

Hugs,

BW

25whmsey

Sounds like you ad I are going through similar experiences. the OC was 7 months old when My H told me about her and the A. He was already attached to her and already paying CS without my knowledge without DNA. we get the results nexxt week. THe OW has pushed for him to be involved as the father and he wants to be but she will not allow me to be involved and puts a bunch of other constraits on him. We tried a meeting and it didn't go well. So they currently meet in public every other sunday for a couple of hours. I hate it. Once DNA is proved, then my Ha nd I are going to seriously talk about what kind of father he actually wants to be not waht kind the OW wants him to be and how can we make that happen without paying her more than we are and without her being involved. SHe hasn't gotten the understanding that my H and I are a unit because he is just now starting to push that onto her. When they meet she keeps trying to make him jealous and get him back. so she is not seeing us as a unit yet. Once DNA is established, she will have to see that or he will not be involved. that is the end of that. I can't put up with her continuing to try to get my H back and break us up.

It sickens me how these women use their child as a pawn to try to get what they want.

scooter-my heart goes out to you. I understand completely about you not wanting to tell H he had to make a choice, it is his choice to make. For me, it was about protecting our children first, and how much I could handle with contact with OW/OC. For visitation to happen with an infant or toddler, it would be hard without at least some contact with the OW. When a child is older, it is easier to allow them to make a decision to see their father, and for the visitation to happen without OW. My H has been very clear that if visitation is to happen in the future, it will only be through an intermediary to pass off the child, be it the nanny, or someone else. It took several across the table CS discussions/negotiations with attny's present for her to even start to get it. I have quite clear to my H that if and when the time is right, I can make some room in my life for this child, but I will never make any room for OW. What these OWs don't get, and I'm not sure if they ever will, at least in our case--is its not about them!! If they produce a child with a man outside of marriage, they loose some rights and control over that child--they can't have the child, CS and all the control.

BW--why does it take so long for the paternity test? My H's only took 5 business days--but it was not court mandated. The waiting must be agonizing...but there is a reason for everything.

Hugs to you all.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 1:06 PM, August 17th (Thursday)]