SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The VAR was gone.

Where did you put it? I mean, unless it was sitting on the dashboard how did she possibly know it was there?

I'd bet $$ he paid for the trip. Are you sure that she the supposed friend is really going?

I've got to believe your WW is reading this forum.

Yeah and OP's history would make it easy for her to identify him.

I put the VAR Velcroed under her seat. I only access si from my phone. I have no idea how she knew it was there unless she was taking Per cautions and checks to see if anything was in the car. I have a feeling she only talks to him outside the house. I know they talk when she takes the kids to the park after school and she takes walks almost every day. We have our counseling appt in a week so I'm hopeful there

Tel her friend and her hubby who is taking her on the trip the situation and they may be helping in infidelity.

Since you are taking legal steps can you tell her sternly that this put the marriage on rocks.

The best enabler for cheating is the secure home provided by BS. Do not let it continue. If this get worse You can even mention that and ask her to leave the marital home

[This message edited by goalong at 3:55 PM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

"I put the VAR Velcroed under her seat. I only access si from my phone. I have no idea how she knew it was there unless she was taking Per cautions and checks to see if anything was in the car."

How many innocent people check under their car seat before every trip? According to the movies, guys in the Mafia have periods where they have to check their cars for bombs and bugging devices, but for them it goes with the work. Who else does that? Before I came to this forum, I had never heard of VARs under car seats. So I can see why people think your wife may have checked your phone, found out where you go online, and found this thread.

Alternatively, the VAR might have dropped out of its velcro cradle, your wife heard it drop, and found it. Some models do also beep when their batteries are low, which can give them away.

Another alternative is that your wife is watching you a lot more closely than you realise, and she followed you when you were hiding the VAR.

Whatever the case is, it is very odd that she did not say anything about finding it. It's like she's playing a game. She is certainly not behaving like an innocent person.

I think you need to be as guarded with your phone as she is with hers; there is a good chance that she has been into your phone, and she may have put some spyware on it. I am not good with all that technical stuff, but I am sure there are people here who can advise you what to check for, and how to remove it.

To borrow a technique from the enemy (cheaters), I think you should get yourself a 'burner' phone from which to do your 'serious' surfing and emailing. If your wife is aware of this thread, she can still come back to read it, but if you have a second phone, and you keep it out of her hands, she won't be able to check it, or plant spyware on it. Start yourself a new email account, which you only access via the burner phone. Obviously, if she is reading this thread, she will know you have the burner, but that doesn't matter as long as you hide it well.

And if she is checking the sites you surf via your existing phone, why not put on a good show for her? Check out several private investigator's websites and get quotes for their services (which is a good idea anyway), contact the "Cheaters" TV show about how to have a cheating partner trailed by a TV crew, check out sites that specialise in catching cheats...Give her something to think about. It will also be useful knowledge for you.

Oh, and if it is at all possible, you should move Heaven and Earth to go on that trip with her. It would be very revealing to see what she would say if you wanted to go. Do you have a friend or relative who could go with her?

[This message edited by M1965 at 4:24 PM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

I did suggest going on the trip. She literally laughed said it's a girls trip not a couples trip. She went on to say that she has not seen her bff in 8 years and she doesn't need me tagging along ( this is her childhood friend they have known

Each other since they were 8) Plus her friend paid her way and I would not be allowed in the area they are working.

So, lots of good reasons for you to not go on the trip. It could be exactly what your wife says it is, or it could be an excuse for her to hook up with her friend who lives close to where they will be. There is no way to know without an independent source of information, and as the bulk of her communications with the friend are spoken, by phone in the park, that cannot be recovered (unlike emails or other written messages).

If everything is innocent, and she is just getting a kick out of teasing you with this, it is a very stupid and childish game to be playing. If she and her friend are intent on hooking up, and it is not innocent, your wife is playing a different kind of stupid game. I say 'stupid' in both cases because if your wife damages the marriage by destroying trust or alienating you, she is still going to have to live in the marriage, day in and day out, herself. Even if she is in some kind of 'hearts and flowers' fantasy emotional relationship with the friend (which may not be the case), the reality of it is that she is going to come home after the trip to the home that she shares with you, with the four kids she has with you, and if she has turned the atmosphere toxic, it isn't going to be any better for her than it is for you.

She doesn't seem to understand that, and I sympathise with you for having to deal with her immature approach to this. Instead of teasing or being dismissive, she ought to be taking your concerns seriously, giving you transparency and reassurance, and making sure that her family does not fall apart. Instead, she just seems to focus on herself. It will be good if the counsellor you will be seeing next week can get her to see that your concerns do matter, whether they are well-founded or not, and that her current attitude is not making anything better.

My WS came up with every excuse under the sun for the trip she made and me, being naive (and not suspecting that anything was going on) and also not wanting to sound like an arse, fell for it.

Huge mistake.

I think you need to explain to her that the trip is going to end the M. I am assuming this is not how you normally behave, so she should understand that these are the highest stakes she is playing with.

It also shows her that you are standing up for yourself and the M and that you care.

At this point there is a lot of work to do to repair the M, but if she goes there is a huge amount more, if it can be saved at all. Shine the light on that now. Don't be accusing, be honest and emotional.

I'm sure you don't feel like being reasonable and that you are mad as hell but, as you'll see from this forum, somehow the BS has to do a lot of the hard yards no matter how grossly unfair that is.

The reason she is so adamant about going is because she is in the FOG and she can only think about this fantasy. So you need to make it all as real as possible. For me, that includes calling the guy up and warning him off. And yes why not tell the H of the friend because does he need all this sh*t in his life either? He might stop it happening.

Finally, as M1965 says there are red flags and alarms blaring all over this. You've caught an EA that's about to go PA and you only have one chance to stop this so give it your best shot and don't pull your punches. If she still goes, well that becomes a different story and you can deal with that if it arises.

One of the biggest problems that I can see from your posts, is that communication between the two of you has almost completely broken down. It almost appears adversarial at this time.

You have lost trust in your wife, and vice versa. I am not trying to point blame at this time, but until some level of intimate conversation is restored, things will not improve. The air needs to be cleared about honesty and transparency between the BOTH of you. You need to relay your concerns without being accusational; she needs to be reassuring without being defensive and unsupportive.

Is it possible to get back to this point before your trip? You mentioned going to counseling next week. I can't think of a better time in your current circumstance than to open up at this appointment. Lay out your perceived timeline of where you have seen your marriage break down. Listen to her side as openly as possible, and see if it is a real possibility that she is being honest. Let her know how much more secure your marriage felt when both of your phones were not guarded by one another.

More than likely, one of two scenarios is going to play out:

1. She isn't as emotionally involved in her old boyfriend as much as you believe. But due to some changes in her behavior, it has driven you to a level of uncertainty that is at the very least, destructive to you and the marriage.

2. She is emotionally involved, and her behaviors have taken on those of a wayward thinking spouse. If this is the case, than she has shut you out emotionally, omitted information, lied about accusations, and for a lack of a better word, has been cruel about letting you twist in the wind.

Communication and commitment are going to salvage this marriage. The lack of either is going to destroy it. That is what needs to be the focus of your first MC appointment.

You say you attached the var under seat and now its vanished?

Then I have to believe she found it- and her not mentioning it does not bode well.

She's onto your efforts to catch her, and is staying a few steps ahead of you. Modern phone tech is what it is unfortunately. If she is tech savvy then the tools are there for her to stay ahead. If she is past the point of wanting to even discuss finding the var with you then she is checked out completely and biding her time to exit on her terms.

More than likely, she's reading this forum, or a similar one and is using the info to stay ahead of your dragnet. she's gone to a burner phone, or hidden apps for her communication with OM. Apps can be installed, used, and deleted completely from her phone for when she is around you. You know what's going on, and she knows you strongly suspect but need proof. She's not going to give you proof- not easily at least as you have shown your hand. Next level vars, or a PI on her trip might catch her.

You are in the position that inspired my username. I don't know what to tell you other than you are in for a long tough haul if you are not willing to cancel her trip, expose, and file on her.

I think jb3199 has given you some great advice. I don't know where this is all going and obviously I'm not privy to your relationship, but I think all the talk about D and filing is a bit premature.

Start off by fighting for your M and make it clear how much you love your wife and want things to succeed and that she is in danger of taking everything to the point of no return. Tell her how much you don't want that to happen and use the MC to work out what you both need to put right in your M.

There's a chance that you can stop this in its tracks.

And, if she won't listen then it's not for the want of trying on your part and the other options can follow in their own time.

Well it seems the marriage counselor has an opening today I don't know if it's fate but we are going in very soon for a first appointment Wish me luck

Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Unfortunately, MCs are not uniformly good, so if it goes bad, please do not take it personally!

Rooting for you!!

Well that did not go so great. It started out well. My wife was actual listening and participating When the subject of the OM came up My wife basically said she feels like I'm trying to control her and it's not ok that I want to read their conversations that this friendship is no different than any of her friendships with females. She admitted to talking to him everyday but quickly followed up with the fact that she talks to other friends daily as well. The MC sadly seemed to be on my wife's side actually said if I try and stop her trip that I may ruin my own marriage and I need to work on my trust issues.

When we left my wife had that flip smirky attitude. I told her I was uncomfortable with this therapist. She laughed and said of coarse you are you only want to see someone who agrees with you. She has agreed to go back to THIS MC but will not see anyone else

I'm just not sure what to do. I'm so sad. I just assumed the MC would see my side but I was painted as a paranoid controlling husband and she was basically given the greenlight for all of her behaviors Thank you everyone for your help I'm just not sure where to go from here

[This message edited by Isittrue619 at 2:23 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

I certainly wish you luck.

..... if nothing else, MC will provide a (hopefully) calm and structured setting for you to express your love and fears to your wife.

Sending you strength and peace.

MOB

What kind of a marriage counselor puts an extraneous friendship above the actual marriage?? Have you been "controlling" with her other "friendships"? If not, how can they paint you as such? This MC sounds terrible. If you can find a place to review them, make sure you do.

Sorry that this has come to this but I think you're going to have to decide what you want. Are you willing to live with this behavior and just watch for definitive proof of an affair or are you not? If you are not able to live with this then I think you are well within your rights to say the following:

"I am extremely uncomfortable with your continued close friendship with Mr X. I cannot prove that there has been a physical affair but the behavior that you have exhibited is not acceptable to me as a partner in this marriage. I am going to ask you to stop being so close with this man. I do not want you to text and talk to him daily or visit him without me being present. I am asking this as your husband and I hope that as my wife you will agree to place our marriage and our happiness above any need to have this friendship. Will you do that for me?"

If she won't do that then I think you are going to have to decide whether you can continue in this marriage unfortunately.

I feel like my wife manipulated this MC. I knew this would happen my wife found an opening and once she started manipulating her my wife's attitude and demeanor totally changed. So apparently this "friendship" should be treated like all her other friendships. Never mind the fact that she was in a very intense relationship with him for 4 years and they were each other's firsts for everything I'm told that I should treat it just like one of her female friends. I'm very disappointed and discouraged

I think this is really where a lot of people fail. You are basically being put in the position to where you have to accept her relationship with this man and any other one she makes along the way or the relationship ending will be your fault. Me personally I am not a shy person when it comes to lines. I would tell her look I told you I don't feel comfortable about this and you just want to make me out to be the bad guy. So let's go that way. You talk to him one more time or see him you can consider us divorced. I'm won't be treated with such disrespect any longer. I would go get divorce papers drawn up to show her just how serious you are. If she leaves on her trip I would file them and turn my phone off. She would have no communication with me until she came back. She would also find out that half the money would be gone along with anything else that would need to be split up for the divorce. The more you allow this to go on the more she is going to feel entitled to cheat on you. Just my two cents .