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I got my STD tests back. I’m clean. When I told her she said “I’m glad you have a pc of mind knowing you don’t have an STD. I told you that you didn’t need to do that, THE 1 TIME WE HAD SEX HE WORE A CONDOM.” I then asked if she was going to get tested and she said no. I laughed. She sucked his dick (ONLY TWICE -haha) and they had anal sex (with no condom), so I don’t know what planet she’s on. I keep telling her, you think you were his only side piece? He’s got a couple of people like you in every city he does business in. I’d be scared shitless... She had nothing to say to any of that..

Also I am planning on moving into an apartment to get away from her for a while. Reason I’m not kicking her out of our house (actually my house, remember she’s “not on the mortgage so she could easily get out whenever she wanted”) is because since she works from home and our daughter’s school is literally 2 minutes away. She does all the school drop offs and pick ups. My only concern with separating right now is that when this goes to court will the judge see that as me abandoning my daughter and can that be used against me? We would be splitting time with our daughter obviously. Should I wait to move out until after I talk to my lawyer on 8/1?

Always talk to your lawyer anytime you are going to make a change.

Can you get an emergency appointment with your lawyer? Can you get this simple question answered by phone right now and still do the appointment on August 1?

Tell your lawyer your STBXWW is having fantasies about rape and get full custody. Protect your daughter.

Do you know for sure your daughter was with her grandmother when she was having fun with her AP?

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 7:21 AM, July 25th (Thursday)]

JA1982,

Please read this and follow closely. Read it everyday if you need to. Your WW has been lying to you for quite some time...Fact. She has become a master at manipulating you. Nothing has changed here... She’s still doing it. I’m sorry to say this, but your wife thinks you are a pushover. She is taking major advantage of you...walking all over you. She is going to continue doing so. Her stating her fantasies, as twisted as they are, really come down to her fantasizing about having an Alpha Male, which you are not. (Refer to the book ‘What women want in a man’ and it will be clear as day after the first chapter or two). I am not saying these things to hurt your feelings. I am giving you the hard truth which you need more than anything right now. Your willingness to be active on this forum is a good sign that you are open to advice...Excellent.

First and foremost, get yourself a VAR (voice activated recorder). I recommend the Sony ICDUX560BLK Digital Voice Recorder...80 bucks on Amazon. Keep it on you and hidden at all times. Your WW is not stable and at any point can call the cops, tell them you hit her, and off to jail you go. Your VAR is get out of jail free card. Please look more into this, it is a tactic preached to women planning divorce.

Trust me, you're in for the fight of your life. If you're not prepared, you can bet the other side will rebut you right out of fatherhood and into poverty. Your children, with your current and future finances, will be out of your life forevermore.

What ever you do, NEVER LEAVE YOUR MARITAL RESIDENCE unless ordered by the court!! If you do, your STBX is free to do unto you as you are about to do unto her. It'll be a mistake that'll cost you dearly.

If your WW files first, she's already plotted her next 10 moves against you. This is not where you want to be. If she files first, you can expect:

1) a restraining order that evicts you from your house and prevents you from contacting your kids.

2) to pay temporary child support, temporary alimony, community debt, and/or bills accumulated by your STBX during these proceedings. This can be 1 to 3 years. You'll be bankrupt well before trial.

If you've got "skeletons" in your closet, prepare accordingly, ahead of time. Do likewise with your STBX's skeletons. Gather all incriminating info while you can. Never give her the opportunity to cover her tracks.

Gather supporting evidence with photos and videos. Put a trace program on the computer and a recorder on the phone. Don't be afraid to record phone calls. Make it your business to know where your STBX goes in cyber-space. Above all get witnesses, especially professionals involved with your STBX & kids. You may want to hire a PI. A visit to your local spy shop will be very worth while. Think of it as an investment.

This is all said to get you to start looking at the bigger picture. These thoughts are very overwhelming but as shitty as it is, this is your life now. You need to do what is necessary to be the father you want to be. Use that as your motivation. Take the first step and schedule an appointment with a good reputable men’s divorce lawyer. I went through three lawyers before I ended up with Cordell and Cordell.

[This message edited by Unbelievable35 at 7:37 AM, July 25th (Thursday)]

Dear JA1982,

Moving out of your home is a major course of action that could affect other legal decisions. I suggest you run that past your attorney before you make that move.

Best,

Bigheart

Please read Stevesn's post on the previous page. Excellent guidance there. If she hasn't read the book how to help your spouse heal from an affair then I would definitely get her that book to go along with Stevesn's post. That is, if you are interested in reconciliation.

She seems to be working on things but from a distorted and self-serving place. She doesn't realize that she needs to make herself safe for you and to help heal you. I mean, her therapist has probably said some of these things but they haven't sunk into her in a meaningful way. So if you want to try to reconcile then the book and comments from the other post will help you potentially breakthrough this mindset she is stuck in. Her words point to the fact that she is trying to work on herself but I haven't seen any words or actions to her trying to help heal you.

I am also not sure if you've really laid it on the line for her with just how much pain she has caused you? Many men have trouble articulating how they feel and explicitly discussing the pain they are experiencing. Do you think you are in this category?

If you are then it could be an additional factor in why she is still glossing over your needs. However, if you have broken down emotionally in front of her or just clearly explained How Deeply she has hurt you with her actions and the terrible thing she wrote about you, then it just shows an incredible lack of empathy on her part. Again, the book I referenced could help here and she could discuss it with her therapist if she needs to.

I always think reconciliation should be considered if the relationship is a long-term one and you have a lot invested. However, when someone has been incredibly hurtful it makes reconciliation a very difficult thing. I wrote before that nothing is impossible and I believe that. But reconciling the relationship, from my perspective, becomes very hard when a WS has done certain things. For some people that is sleeping with the OP in the marital bed. For others it is the duration of the affair and the amount of Lies it took to sustain it over months or years. And still for others it is comments like your WS made to the OM that were very belittling of you. When these things are present they diminish the chance of successful reconciliation.

So, if you still want to try to reconcile you need to take an extra firm hand up front and set very clear and demanding expectations of what she is going to need to do to make herself safe and to heal you. Because if you have a particular trigger that is causing you pain it is going to last a long time and she needs to understand that concept deeply and take actions accordingly. When you are damaged and traumatized it can be a very difficult time to take a strong stand for yourself. Some people can do it out of their anger but many people are too overwhelmed. Please look again at all the advice and the resources here to help you do this for yourself. It will help you regain some of your self-esteem but it will also help her understand what she has to do. And that in turn will help you make an informed decision about any possibility of successful reconciliation based upon the action she takes.

My only concern with separating right now is that when this goes to court will the judge see that as me abandoning my daughter and can that be used against me? We would be splitting time with our daughter obviously. Should I wait to move out until after I talk to my lawyer on 8/1?

Definitely speak to your attorney first. You'll want to see if there's a way to begin a physical separation without abandoning your interests in the home and to get a legal temporary agreement regarding custody.

Talk to a lawyer before you do anything. She sounds crazy. I wouldn't put anything past her. Who is to say she doesn't just try to move a guy in while your gone.

Other posters are correct... DON'T MOVE OUT without legal advice. It may affect custody and support arrangements later.

If this is your wife playing nice and trying to help save her marriage and heal someone she loves, can you imagine what will happen if she flips the switch and decides to fight you? (I'm betting this will happen soon).

She's decided what's good enough for YOU and YOUR marriage (no STD tests, No timeline, deleting information, refusing access to information).

Now you decide if that's okay with you. Don't tell her she must or you will __________

Just make your decision and ACT. Taking action will help you feel confident and in control.

WW words: I'll do anything to fix the M.

WW actions: Except answer your questions, because it is hard for me to face my terrible actions and betrayal of you. I don't want to be reminded of it so shut the f--- up about it and move on. M fixed.

WW actions: No I won't be transparent and give you access to my phone/cloud account. I deserve my privacy, regardless of the doubts YOU have and how it will make you feel better and help you to trust me again.

WW words: I'm not making excused.

WW actions: I only did this because I was depressed. I only did this because of YOUR drinking pushing me away. I only did this because I didn't feel loved by you.

Seriously look at her actions and think of what she has DONE to help you heal. Has she gone out of her way to DO anything that helps you believe she can be trusted again?

JA:

Your wife does not respect your strength.

Why?

THE 1 TIME WE HAD SEX HE WORE A CONDOM.” I then asked if she was going to get tested and she said no. I laughed. She sucked his dick (ONLY TWICE -haha) and they had anal sex (with no condom).

Cheaters lie a lot.

You should be driving at this time not her.

She not only cheats but severely degrades you and she's calling all the shots? What's wrong with this picture.

You can stay together but you are nowhere near what a true R requires. Which means nothing has changed. From what you're posting you have a higher chance of getting a repeat.

Better wake up

[This message edited by Marz at 6:22 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

Doesn’t she realize she can get diseases thru her mouth? Sheesh!

Got it. Will not move out until I speak with my lawyer.

She finally wrote out a timeline for me. I haven’t see it yet. She left it on the counter for me to see when I get home from work.

Also, I asked her (again) that I need full disclosure. I need to know everything. She said she agrees. I then said if you still had those text messages that you deleted, would you let me see them? She replied yes. So now I’m thinking about trying to go into the iCloud to recover these things, which I’m sure she didn’t even think about. I am not that smart when it comes to shit like that though.

I will say that at this point I know enough that I’m pretty sure I want to end it. I just want to know everything so I can have closure and I’m not always wondering. I feel like if I do see these messages and I learned that she is continuing to lie about the timeline and how many times they had physical meetups then it would only make it easier for me to leave and heal.

Definitely go for the iCloud messages. You can also look into restoring deleted texts with various phone programs. If all else fails, you could ask her to take a polygraph just to see what she says.

Her story of so little physical encounters is not believable. AND she went from blowing up at you and telling you to rugsweep to suddenly agreeing with you and making a time line. Something's afoot here. She's probably decided to give up a little more information and make it look like she isn't still lying but I'm betting if you actually press her on it and/or get access to the texts, you will find out the truth is something completely different.

She finally wrote out a timeline for me. I haven’t see it yet. She left it on the counter for me to see when I get home from work.

How long did it take her? I'm just giving you a heads-up so you don't get too upset, but it's not going to be anywhere nearly as complete as you're looking for. Regardless, you should keep it for if/when she does give revised versions.

So now I’m thinking about trying to go into the iCloud to recover these things, which I’m sure she didn’t even think about. I am not that smart when it comes to shit like that though.

I didn't know one bit about Apple products prior to my DDay 1. I'll PM you to guide you through the basics, if you'd like.

JA1982,

Its great that you're so decisive, so just a couple of things here.

- Take note on what others have said, if you have examples of her liking RAPE and so forth, I'd use that to gain full custody of your daughter. No way in hell should you subject your daughter to being around a women who is depressed, likes that kind of lifestyle and the type of men that are willing to do that to her are not going to be safe for your child.

- I'd contact the girlfriend again, just to make sure you got her, and not the boyfriend intercepting this info. May want to send her screenshots of what these two were doing.

- If you're on title, have your WW move out. Shes not on title, no way should you have to move. As for the daughter going to and from school, you better start to take control of some of that. You'll have a better case showing the judge that once you were leaning towards divorce, you took over those duties and you're a responsible parent. That will show well in court and for the judge. If you cannot do that, hire someone or ask a family member to do it for you. Start establishing a routing of YOUR TIME with your daughter, keep those notes and share that with the courts. It will help you with custody.

- Lastly, if you're moving to D, you may want to reconsider looking through all the icloud messages. If you need it for closure, if thats the only way. Otherwise, theres no point in seeing things that will trigger you in the future, and will be in your nightmares. If you're going to divorce anyway, why weigh yourself down, it will take longer to heal and recover from with that information.

I then said if you still had those text messages that you deleted, would you let me see them? She replied yes. So now I’m thinking about trying to go into the iCloud to recover these things, which I’m sure she didn’t even think about. I am not that smart when it comes to shit like that though.

Hi JA,

Why not call around a few private investigators in your area and explain that you are trying to recover deleted messages, photos, etc. Explain the various places you think they may be (e.g. icloud), and ask if they do that kind of recovery work.

PIs actually do that stuff a lot, and they have experience for where things can be hidden. So if you worry that you are not that technically proficient, a PI might be a good way forward.

If you do it, you may always wonder if you missed something. If an experienced PI scours icloud and your wife's phone/i-pad, it could give you some reassurance that anything that could be found has been found.

Yes, there is a cost involved, but it is a one-time thing, designed to support your decision-making, so I would say the pennies are worth it.

I can understand why you feel like D is the way to go here. Speaking personally, I see very little in her actions (both the vindictive nature of the affair and her actions after it) that suggest she is a person who will bring you years of secure and stress-free happiness if you stay with her.

She may well have her demons, in which abuse and humiliation - both given and received - produces to a sexual thrill, and she may need to get professional help to combat that. However, that is not your job.

You are not her parent, her guardian, her doctor, her psychiatrist, her in-house punch-bag, or any other role she might wish to cast you in. You are her HUSBAND.

What you have to ask yourself is if she has it in her to do honor to you as her husband.

If she is going to change, she has to be the one who drives her recovery. If she lacks the commitment to make that effort, it suggests that she is comfortable with who she is, and what she does.

If a person gets their rocks off by being abusive to you, or about you, that adds a whole additional layer to infidelity, and does not bode well for the future. It says something about them, doesn't it? I see no gain for you in ignoring that message, no matter how hard your wife tries to bulldoze you into doing that.

Her actions since discovery strike me as a calculated cycle through several different attitudes, in an attempt to see what works on you.

At first there was a kind of surrender, with promises to do whatever it took, though that was undermined by contemptuous statements about you lacking the emotional intelligence to understand her actions, and assertions that it was not that bad at all, really.

When that ploy hit a brick wall, she tried the old chestnut of attack being the best form of defense. You faced aggression and statements that implied that you and your refusal to role over, play dead, and accept whatever was done to you were the real problems here, not what she had done.

When that did not make you cave in, she tried to rush you through, and tell you everything had been said, it was all in the past, and it was time to move on. No need to dwell on it, move right along folks, nothing to see here.

And now she is making a show of doing what she angrily refused to do before, which is to provide a timeline, and making contradictory statements about being happy for you to see messages that she thoroughly deleted.

If she was fine with you seeing the messages, she would never have deleted them in the first place. However, if she believes they are gone and far beyond recovery, making such statements makes her look good without any potential damage arising from you being able to see them.

You said earlier that she does not know about all the evidence you have, and I think that is giving her a false sense of security.

Call me cynical, but I believe she will keep giving you crumbs until they satisfy your curiosity (and shut you up!), all while insisting that you now know everything and must be a paranoid nut-job to still be asking questions. Isn't that what she has done so far?

Which brings me back to my initial statement about the value of getting a professional to do the work to retrieve as much deleted material as possible.

Nothing I have said here comes from anger, or an anti-reconciliation agenda. I have argued in several cases that truly remorseful wayward partners should be given the chance to prove themselves, both in the forum and in private messages. My motivation for suggesting that parting might be a better long-term solution for your emotional well-being comes from concern for you.

Abuse is not sexy. Abuse is not fun. Abuse is not a game. Abuse is abuse. And you are now the victim in an abusive relationship. I believe you deserve better than that.

How long you choose to remain in that situation is up to you.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:34 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

Definitely go for the iCloud messages. You can also look into restoring deleted texts with various phone programs

Google Fonelab