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I hope you get some answers that are acceptable to you one way or another. I think your actions indicate the seriousness that applies to your situation and he sees that you are not going to allow anything to be swept under the rug.

Wishing you tons of support.

I just wanted to add: trust your gut. I wish I’d trusted mine more the first time (or the second, third, 4th, 5th...) my senses were telling me my ex husband was being unfaithful. My gut was right and my heart, that adored the man I delusionally thought he was, was wrong. Don’t let your husband gaslight you.

Wishing you strength.

Damn, you've handled this like a champ. I just want to say, this is exactly how a BS should be responding to an A, or to root out an A.

I'm just impressed by your actions and resolve.

If you do indeed find out that he was using the viagara to masterbate, is that a deal breaker? I mean, 35 yrs of marriage and he's just watching porn to get off would be a very harsh 1st time offense. I hope you get to the bottom of this soon, for your anxiety sake.

ann1960, he hasn’t acted shocked or sorry. He says he didn’t mean to make me upset. Really, no compassion or empathy whatsoever for my anxiety, anguish, feeling lost.

WalkingHome, 25 years we had marriage counseling to “improve communication”, and we are right back where we started. This is just a bit discouraging.

My husband is a mountain climber. He TELLS me what he’s going to do and when. I don’t climb-I have difficulty with altitudes over about 10,000 feet So he spends time and PLENTY of money on this hobby. I spent money trying to figure out what the hell is going on in my marriage because he doesn’t like to answer questions. And although I don’t earn money, I make it possible for him to have a demanding career, hobbies that take him away from home for training and execution of said climbing, and raised our kids. He doesn’t take care of the house, I do ( no housekeeper). I change the filters, make repairs I can, hire repair people when I can’t do it. I earn my keep. And believe me, Walking Home, I feel like a TOTAL IDIOT for giving up my lucrative career for this. I’d shoot myself if I had the combination to the gun safe. I’ve been so stupid to trust him.

In our conversations Thursday, Friday, and Saturday:

When I asked about the porn....”I don’t wanna talk about it “ “It’s not your business.”

When I mentioned it seemed he’s drinking more than he used to, and why he was hiding the bags from the liquor store he said, “Because I don’t want you asking about my drinking”.

When I asked what all is in the gun safe (I think he may be hiding money there) he said “I don’t have to answer your questions.”

So, yeah, I’m kind of wondering what he’s capable of. Clearly he doesn’t consider confiding in me.

I told him he has to get an IC in the next two weeks or things aren’t going to be pretty. He agreed.

I totally lost my shit Saturday night and resorted to yelling. Same pattern from years ago. He sits acting like we’re talking about the weather. I finally lose it just to get a reaction. And then I look like the crazy one.

Went to my IC today. She’s encouraging me to let him get to a counselor. OK, fine. But I’m not going to wait 5 years for him to get his act together. We had a counselor for YEARS.

I’m staying away a few more nights.

On Friday, I started the conversation by asking him what he thought of Thursday’s conversation. He said, “Um, I guess I don’t know. You want more open communication from me and tell you what’s going on.” I told him I had more information than I had let on and it was time for him to tell me everything. I said I’d like for him to be really forthcoming about what’s going on in his life that affects me.

Silence. We’re sitting opposite each other at the table. Six minutes of silence. Then a political robocall. Then he says he’s just thinking, not ignoring my question. Then silence again. Five minutes of nothing. I just kept sitting there, waiting.

ELEVEN minutes of SILENCE before he attempts to answer my question.

That’s when deflection, blaming me totally for DB, and some explanations started.

I mean, it’s not unusual for him to ponder a bit before answering a question, but have any of you ever encountered that length of total silence?!?

ohsospecial, it's time to learn about narcissism, narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), passive-aggressive behavior, and co-dependency.

This is classic NPD/PA behavior, stonewalling and the silent treatment until you blow up. Then, you look like the problem. It's not you. He's an asshole and he's treating you like shit.

He has the power in this dynamic because he maintains the power by doing nothing.

You are most likely deeply co-dependent, without even the slightest clue that this is a thing for you. I was floored when I learned about this and my role in the dynamic. Putting myself second all the time for the sake of the relationship. So incredibly stupid for my own success and future.

The only way out of this is to stop asking him questions, stop expecting answers, stop thinking he might change and to focus 100% on YOU and the things within your locus of control. Your lawyer, your D filing, your IC, your housing plans, etc.

In all likelihood his lies and secrets are deep, very very deep, and he will do everything in his power to keep you from learning the truth about him.

Proceed as best you can without additional information. Seek sanity and stability where you can get it, not with him. WORK your IC, ask for homework to improve yourself and then do it.

It took me a long time to extricate myself from the nightmare of my marriage but I'm free now and I have a very successful career and a plan for my future. It took some time but here I am.

Wow, heartbroken, thank you. My IC mentioned the word narcissist for the first time last week, referring to my H tendencies. I will go to the library tomorrow. Do you have a favorite reference on N and co-d?

But he seems like such a nice, generous man. He’s great at his job, has a reputation for treating subordinates well, etc.

BTW, both of our fathers were drinkers My dad stopped when my mom told him, once I was out of college, that she wouldn’t put up with it anymore.

His dad was in a hepatic coma from alcohol poisoning during our first year of marriage. He pulled through and never drank again.

My H and I aren’t big drinkers. Until a year or so ago, I might have one or two glasses of wine per week. I now have a glass most evenings. But it doesn’t bother me at all to go without. He does drink more, but never seems drunk at all.

have any of you ever encountered that length of total silence?!?

Yup. I got this a ton after I started confronting my ex about his affair. And after the never ending silence, he’d say something like “I don’t know” or “what do you want me to say” or my personal favorite, “why do you want so badly for there to be someone else?” Spoiler alert: there was someone else but he was trying to make me feel like a bad person for questioning him. When I finally told him my proof, he acted like I had wronged him for snooping.

Seriously, your husband does seem like he might be a candidate for NPD. The best way to deal with these people is go as low contact as possible and get all your ducks in a row to get away. It sounds like you’ve already taken many of those steps to protect yourself.

co-dependency doesn't have to refer supporting addictions like using alcohol or drugs. It can also mean supporting users of ... people.

The narcissist's drug is attention, respect, admiration, sex, love, etc.

You give ego kibbles, and so does everyone else the narcissist seeks out.

As codependents we willingly participate in this.

There are a lot of books and webpages devoted to this topic. It's baffling when you first learn about it but after you start to understand a lot of crazy things start making sense.

Did you check phone records to see if he contacted her after your conversation? I know this is not recommended because she has no reason to be honest with you, but can you call her and tell her that you know about the Valentine's gift and would like to know about their affair? I am not sure this would work, but if he can fool a poly, maybe she could give you some information. Do not tell your husband you are doing this before you do it.

Sounds like there are control issues here. You have a lot invested. Slow down. Deep breath.

Take this with a grain of salt...

What is your ultimate goal? A loving marriage? Intimacy? Stealth marriage? Alone in a gorgeous house?

You are traveling at Mach speed to show him you WILL not be wronged. (Oh I understand the wronged part, and that’s an understatement for many of us here.) It seems like you’re not going to get anywhere with the technique of tell me why, how and who or you’re getting served a divorce. I would try softening a bit and going down the road of trying maybe even pretend understanding. Start with super hard conversation regarding the dead bedroom (btw I speak from experience on this advice, no sex/intimacy for 10 years and conversation never going deeper than the weather). If you approach him like a CIA interrogator on the blue pill, solo sex, porn I have a hunch he’ll shut down. You’ll get more out of him by providing him a safe conversation without judgement. You just might hear things that start to bond the two of you back together. He may confess to an affair. He may open up about ED and being afraid to tell you. Who knows. You’re stuck if you continue with questions and he responds in silence.

From what you’ve written I don’t think your husband is guilty of an affair. You seem pretty thorough, I think you would have uncovered something more than the blue pills.

Even if there is no affair your marriage is in crisis and probably salvageable. If there has been an affair it is salvageable. If you look up the statistics more marriages survive than not.

So I go back to the original question. What is it you want?

You went hard at him and got nothing.

Maybe try a soft approach with something along the lines of "we can't get past what we don't share" and create an opening for him to confess...soft sell it with "I love you but I need to know so that I can forgive..."

Fane empathy, understanding, spin some justification like "I know you were lonely, any man would have been tempted to..." "Who could blame a man in your situation for..." "We need to work as a team and we have to be honest to get through this..."

It is sickening to have to do it, but it is an effective technique to get a confession.

Narcissists want to win. They come in all guises. There is the kind that threatens and sometimes carries it out. Others might play on your sympathy until you back down. Some will give you the silent treatment. There is no “one size fits all” definition. Look at yourself and how you feel around this person. Are you constantly on guard? Are you walking on egg shells. Are you sad ONLY around this person? The main issue is what affect it has on you to interact with them. Remember it is all about power. They want to win at any cost. This usually stems from childhood but you aren’t responsible for that. You are to protect the integrity of your personhood. Your sense of self worth should not shrink because of them. A good relationship is reciprocal. You each give, and get, over time, equal amounts of respect, love, attention.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 8:12 AM, March 3rd (Tuesday)]

ann1960, thank you for your reply. Your question is valid: what is my ultimate goal? Well, my ultimate goal is to know the truth about where I stand in this marriage, which depends on what the truth is about his activities. It’s tough to make a decision when huge chunks are missing. I would like a loving marriage. We have 5 grandchildren and a 6th on the way, all age 6 and under. They are a joy. We have lots of shared memories. But, I’m not afraid to be alone if I have to be for my health.

HalfTime2017, thanks for replying. Porn, masturbation, and using the pills is not necessarily a deal breaker. BUT what might be is that he’s had those pills available for years, including while we had the DB. He made choice after choice to use them for his own pleasure, knowing they could be a game-changer for us. As I said much earlier in the thread, we wouldn’t have remained sexless then.

At one point during our talks, he said he masturbated and used porn because “it’s easier. No pressure.” Well, duh, of course it’s easier when only one person is involved. Anytime you add another person to your life, it’s automatically more complicated.

And it may seem I've gone at the speed of sound here. But, I actually panicked when I found those pills. I had no idea if he was cheating and planning to leave me. I waited 2 months after the discovery before I retained a lawyer. I really kept hoping he would discuss the pills with me since we’d had lots of...good times on our vacation in October.

But he didn’t. And I need to protect myself.

WalkingHome, thanks for continuing to follow.

Y’all, I went over my plan to confront with my IC, my sister (who is the most diplomatic leader I’ve ever known), and a trusted male friend (who said go directly at my H: “I think you may be cheating and here’s why.”)

I reread portions of Crucial Confrontations and Crucial Conversations, as well as articles specifically about confronting a partner about potential cheating. Then I wrote down how I wanted to open the discussion and a short list of topics. I started all three days with expressing concern about the marriage. I asked open-ended, non-accusatory questions at first. Really, I displayed no anger either Thursday or Friday. Even Saturday started out okay. I recorded most of our talks and have been transcribing them. I am really pretty happy with the way I handled Thursday and Friday.

I think you’re doing awesome. I wish I had been half as calm and methodical as you have when I discovered my ex’s affair. I did the pick me dance for six weeks and I’m so ashamed I didn’t stand up better for myself and allowed my ex to do more psychic damage to me.

Got a text that says, “I love you. I’m working on finding a counselor.”

I had left a note yesterday before he got home with the names of 2 counselors that my IC thought might be a good fit. So I texted back, “Did you see the names I left for you?”

“Yes, I looked at their websites.”

Well, both are CSAT and counsel on issues that came out in our discussions. It will be interesting if he does not choose one of them, since HE is the one that asked for help finding one.

Well, whatever. I’m doing minor repairs around the house today and will be gone before he gets home. Haven’t seen him since Saturday night, and I’m not sure when I want to spend the night at home again.

Is that normal for him, to sit there and not answer?

I realize that some people are naturally pensive and don't like to argue...but it seems odd.

Is his body language showing confusion? Is there some logical reason for his silence in terms of concern he is being recorded, baited, or similar? I don't mean the obvious...that you suspect he had an affair...is he thinking you are accusing him of something illegal or something that would cost him his job?

There is an elephant in the room there...what is he saying about it?

This is a really tough place to be and hurts more as time goes on...he needs to come clean about whatever it is ASAP to stop the hurting.

That’s when deflection, blaming me totally for DB, and some explanations started.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? How did he deflect? What reasons did he give for the DB? What were some of his explanations?