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Svon, I love your attitude. Half an hour ago, the OBS told me that OW will be in my town for a weekend. The risk of running into her made my heart race. I just finished reading Something Wicked this Way Comes and saw OW as pure evil. After reading your post, nope she is just playground equipment. I am going to use that image for her little visit in my town.

[This message edited by Bestthing at 11:00 PM, November 5th (Monday)]

She was a distraction, playground equipment for a broken man with no morals or boundaries.

You know I am completely on board with essentially everything you say Svon and this is no exception. Thank you.

I feel the same as you. At this stage of my life, I want an intact family and stability more than I want anything else and I am certainly under no illusion that leaving and starting over results in a fairy tale ending with the absence of any pain or loss. Most days/weeks I am good. Others, like today when I am sleep deprived from a great girls weekend away (with some triggers, nobody in that group know H's history) I just get a bit down that this is forever a part of my story...then I put my bitch boots back on and say, "hey, life can sometimes suck, what's in the past is done and can't be changed, judge based on what is in front of you now".

You are so right Svon about reality vs non reality. The way you framed it is very much how I was able to reclaim my history as not being "fake" or a "big lie". His "playground equipment" were his artificial, non real life, for about an hour weekly, just enough time to get the deed done. His APs will take zero of my happy memories from me, those are mine to keep and they are the reality.

((()))

Bestthing, I actually dream of seeing the AP. I would hold my head up high, walk by and hysterically laugh at what she thought she could take. What a joke. Never let her see you weak. Never allow her that power and satisfaction.

Hopeandhealing, I think not only think alike, but are on the SAME damn roller coaster. I was down yesterday too I find it harder on days when I am with people who don’t know and can’t vent a little to. So, I kind of hid in a back corner of the house so as not to upset the kids. I don’t like them seeing me upset and sometimes it’s easier just to let it out. My emotionally challenged husband finds me and asks “what’s wrong?” My reply?? “Seriously? You’re going to ask that? Don’t ever ask me that again. You can assume it’s the wounds from that dagger you stabbed into my back over and over for years unless I tell you otherwise. Either try to comfort me or get the hell out”. Here is the best part... this morning he asks again! I just glared at him. His response this time was “I am sorry. I shouldn’t have asked that. You just looked mad instead of sad this time”. This time I just walked away and laughed at the stupidity. Of course, I didn’t let him know I thought it funny in the end.

Svon,

I am sorry you had a hard day yesterday. I have found the undulating hills of the roller coaster relent and even out with time, but they certainly still exist.

I remember when my WH asked me what was wrong/is everything ok earlier on in my recovery. I think the daggers he had plunged into my back with his As relocated themselves and came shooting directly out of my eyes at him. Really? You dare ask such a stupid question? Of course something is "wrong" and not everything is "ok" you dumbass. I told him (perhaps not so pleasantly) to never ask me that every again, that he needed to check in with me by asking me "how are you doing today, do you want to talk about something". If I wanted to talk, I would, if I didn't, I wouldn't (and he could breathe a sigh of relief and put a check mark in the "I checked in with Hope today" box and move on with his day with a heel click of glee).

The question highlighted to me a) his lack of insight b) his desire to get back to "normal" as quickly as possible and c) that despite his effort to understand my pain and be sensitive to it, a WS will never have a clue the depths of the pain caused by the lies and the betrayal. Until you have walked these shoes, the pain is only truly familiar to those who have experienced it and to suggest otherwise is insulting to those on the path of recovering.

His response this time was “I am sorry. I shouldn’t have asked that. You just looked mad instead of sad this time”

That would have made me laugh too...at least he is "checking in" and concerned about how you are doing. They have those cards of people's faces showing different emotions to assess people's/children's capacity to interpret emotions, perhaps investing in a set (or making your own) would be worthwhile and he can practice interpreting your different emotions and you can give him a guideline of the appropriate response with each one -

Angry face=stay away, go do some dishes or busy yourself in some way which I would want, check back in 15 minutes

Sad face=Ask if I want a hug and apologize again for your ridiculously poor and self serving behaviours.

Happy face= Count your blessings I am still here and be the best damn partner you can be.

(I am kidding of course).

Happy Tuesday everyone. Snow is falling where I am, ski season is almost here, something to look forward to.

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 9:31 AM, November 6th (Tuesday)]

Hell yes, but I am not about to let someone else enjoy the new and improved when I deserved it all along.

This is how I am currently feeling. My sister, the only other person that knows other than my IC, and I were just talking about this very thing. She is also a counselor by profession so she has been great. Lord, I could not have made it this far without her.

Right now, my H is being the man he was 20 years ago and if he is back, why would I throw him to the curb? I am still waiting to see how long it lasts, deep down I want to believe he knows what he is up against--what it is going to take to get through this, but he already failed miserably and I don't have faith in him anymore...it is so very sad.

She was a distraction, playground equipment for a broken man with no morals or boundaries.

I am using this!! I wrote POSOW a letter (didn't send it) but will probably go back and integrate this. I read my letter about every other day. It reminds me what a screwed up POS she is. Here's my favorite excerpt, it always makes me smile...am I weird?:

Here is some advice. If you can’t find a way to make this up to your husband and decide you want to end your marriage, next time have the damn courage and bravery and fucking conviction to find a divorce lawyer. That’s how moral people do it. Stop being an insecure, manipulative, malicious, weak human being that goes around inserting themselves into another family because they have to steal a life since they can’t make one on their own.

This is my water shed moment and this will be last time you will take up any head space. You see, I am confident and I am extraordinarily better than you in every way. I choose the hard road when it’s the right road. I don’t behave inappropriately with men just to validate myself. I rely on myself to make me happy and have a clean heart and a clean conscious. I don’t live with shame and guilt for destroying my family. I don’t manipulate others and formulate plans to destroy another person’s children and family. I don’t have to live with secrets and lies. I put others before myself and I definitely put my children and my family before my own needs – always. I don’t have to beg and plead for forgiveness for the rest of my life, from my spouse, my kids, or from God; I know where I’ll spend eternity. I live with integrity and my moral compass remains securely intact. There was and still is absolutely no comparison. Ever.

Until you have walked these shoes, the pain is only truly familiar to those who have experienced it and to suggest otherwise is insulting to those on the path of recovering.

Nail on the head. Last night was another awful night of tears and sadness. Our discussion moved to my fears and he was trying to convince me that he would never do this again because he can't believe how much pain he has caused. He told me he couldn't ever "do this" again and when he said that he waved his hand at and over me to show me he meant my disheveled shell of a body and tears. I told him that what he was seeing was nothing compared to what is going on inside. He just looked at me. No one understands unless they've been here.

Angry face=stay away, go do some dishes or busy yourself in some way which I would want, check back in 15 minutes

Sad face=Ask if I want a hug and apologize again for your ridiculously poor and self serving behaviours.

Happy face= Count your blessings I am still here and be the best damn partner you can be.

I think this would help my H! He probably would love to have some direction without having to ask. I walked around on eggshells for YEARS, now he is and he is having a hard time with it.

And, to just go back to not wanting to give up the "better" man to someone else....as I am contemplating what I want to do, I keep thinking about things that he has told me. One point, during a "pity party for one," I told him that "It's NOT FAIR!" He replied with telling me "You know what's not going to be fair? I am going to forever treat you like a princess, no one will be treated better than you. You took care of me for twenty years and I am going to take care of you for the next twenty. We are not going to have the complacent marriage that everyone else has and everyone is going to be jealous of you for the wonderful husband I am going to be."

So, if this were the truth and this were to happen, can I live with the pain and disappointment in him and live with facing my murderer every day, live with triggers, and not just set myself free? Are those things worth what he is promising?

I have much more life behind me than I have ahead of me. Going forward, doing what is best for me is primary. Right now that is remaining in the marriage.

My WH was the BS in his first marriage. I still love him, but not the way I used to. I can recognize his good qualities, but the memory of the depth of the betrayal never goes away. We don't really talk about the affair anymore.

Hopeandhealing , thank you so much for the encouragement! We think so muck alike!

Onthefence123, I laugh when my husband says he “could

Never do this again”.... no shit, you might not have that many years left to get another affair lasting years under your belt. I love your letter! It’s perfect!

Needfriendshere, I feel the same way. I choose what best for me and my kids. For now it’s marraige. Not much to gain fro leaving it.

So, if this were the truth and this were to happen, can I live with the pain and disappointment in him and live with facing my murderer every day, live with triggers, and not just set myself free? Are those things worth what he is promising?

That's the million dollar question isn't it?

For me, it really comes down to what is before me and is it enough? So far, it has been. I don't really subscribe to the model of "the grass is greener" elsewhere. I suppose it could be, but I expect there will be brown patches to work around there too, just in different spots, requiring different work. I kinda like dealing with the brown patches I know and are familiar.

northeasternarea

Can I ask why you stayed after false Rs?

The way I see false R is that your WS saw the pain you were in after DDay and CHOSE to put you in that pain again. He may not have been that person through out your marriage, but he is that person now. You gave him a gift of R and he responded in a way that is not in the best interest of your family.

Can I ask why you stayed after false Rs?

The way I see false R is that your WS saw the pain you were in after DDay and CHOSE to put you in that pain again. He may not have been that person through out your marriage, but he is that person now. You gave him a gift of R and he responded in a way that is not in the best interest of your family.

He didn't see the pain I was in. I had too much pride to let him see. We/I basically rugswept the whole thing. He didn't do any real work, and I didn't demand that he do any or make any changes.

We did separate. My first SI post was in the divorce/separation forum. I saw him do his work. I decided on giving it another try when he told me that he had to be a better man, whether or not I stayed married to him.

We are only still together as a result of God's grace and mercy.

[This message edited by northeasternarea at 7:30 AM, November 8th (Thursday)]

DomestTourist, If you are still around sorry for the belated welcome to our forum. I read your story and im sorry you had a double betrayal. Please feel free to jump in and make any comments or give us your opinions on what topics are going, or start your own topic.

I believe when there is a LTA the BS does not pay attention to what is going on. Looks the other way. Because maybe it's to hard to get to the real truth. We ignore the signs, the obvious signals. I did and I will not ever do that again. I will engage and pay attention to my marriage.

hardtomove

i am going to respectfully disagree with you. i had no idea and did not look the other way. I did not ignore signals.

My husband was and is the guy everyone wants to be married to. The most handsome and most successful family guy. His kids nor I could ever have imagined that he would lower himself to do what he did.

Could I ever imagine him cheating? Maybe. With an uber successful beautiful woman who wouldn't get out of his way. Could I imagine in a million years that he would lower himself to paying for back alley nasty? Never.

I can relate to so many BS in this topic. All the stories have so many similarities and are all so typical, so horrible and hurtful. I haven't seen too many people who have split after LTA and give so many of you credit for staying and R. I can't even imagine. In the beginning I was hoping for R and for him to come to his senses but that never happened. I am currently still separated and no plans of R. I feel nothing for him anymore. My WH is still seeing OW but their relationship is still very affair like in that they still have no real life incorporated. He still has not told his family or our kids he is seeing her, although he knows they all know. He won't spend time with or see her kids. I'm not sure if he met them yet but if he did he does not see her when she has them. OW is divorced now for almost a year due to the LTA. My H has still not filed for D since moving out almost a year ago. I know I can file but I put that on him to do. I am ready when he does. I have an attorney, my financial paperwork completed, and my retainer fee set aside. I am still in my home with my kids. I have no idea how their relationship is still lasting or how stupid and desperate she must be to stay with a guy who still hides her from his family and still has not filed for D! It's not like he can blame me because nobody can stop a D from happening. He only brings up filing when we argue. Every time he does I tell him to get it going and let me know when papers are ready. Still nothing. I guess what I am wondering is how did the LTA end for those who chose their AP? Did their relationship last or did it crash and burn? I am curious, not only because of the pain we BS suffer because of this but am very curious to know if the OW go through any similar pain and suffering. I just can't see how two people can find true happiness by hurting others so badly. If there is any pain and suffering to the OW or WS they truly deserve it.

Hardtomove,

I think As are different, for some there are signs, others there are none. Some WS do treat their BS poorly/differently during their As, others, such as mine was business as usual. Nothing vastly different, no "red flags" so to speak. No time missed, no money spent, just getting the deed done and coming home like nothing happened

Nevertome,

I am sorry for what your WH has put you through.

My WH did not have as many partners as yours, but I can relate to the long term betrayal (my WH began cheating about 2 years into our marriage - married x 22 years - and stopped 5 years ago when I read a suggestive text between he and his final AP...I should have pushed that further, but I am too trusting and couldn't fathom him having done what he actually has.

I agree with you, that not all BS know or miss signs about the A.

My WH is also everybody's friend, super outgoing, involved in our community, seemingly outwardly morally intact and socially gifted. Nobody would think him capable of what he has done, not the least of which was me.

Sydney,

I don't know the exact stats on WS and APs going on to have a successful relationship, but it is very low, less than 10% I suppose it is an extension of the "fantasy" brought into real life and justified forever more. I can't imagine many are successful when the foundation is based on lies, deceit, betrayal, but hey, perhaps it's best they have each other in that regard if your WH couldn't get his head out of his ass to see what he was losing. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he will eventually see this, but with your sentiments already being those of indifference, he has missed the gift of R you were willing to give him.

I commend you for standing your ground and not doing the "pick me dance". You are worth much more than that.

i am going to respectfully disagree with you. i had no idea and did not look the other way. I did not ignore signals.

#MeToo

99% was done at work

no constant texting/calls on the cell

they ultimately started using FB messenger (and possibly other apps)

the signals I did see I confronted him about - he said it was all work-related stress - and that was 10 years ago when the sex began

WH kept his woman "friend" secret from before the marriage. Contact was sporadic 1st 4 years after M. Assuming I believe WH (which is often in question), sex didn't start until 14 years after we were married. Except 1st time (at hotel during convention), all sex done during the day at her hotel or after she moved to our town, at her home (again, assuming I believe WH)

He was lying to me from the get-go about this ONE particular person - I had no clue who she was until she told me about the A. Why would I?

Maybe some WS give off these "signs", but mine is an EXTREMELY good liar. I had absolutely ZERO clue. There were other women during the M that I suspected - and I always confronted..... so what else is a BS to do?

Sdynee,

I read your post and you had a few questions i can answer from my experience, but keep in mind that all situations are different. You asked how it ended. For my husband, exposure ended it. According to him, and let’s be honest, how to I know for sure, but he wanted it over for years but was a coward. He knew his AP was crazy and not letting him go without a fight or informing me. He literally referred to his affair as “cowardly kicking the can down the road to avoid ruining his life”. Crazy, yes. He knows it and is in therapy. He had no true feelings for her yet she, only silver lining for me, was left heartbroken. He was relieved. Not sure this helps you, except to point out that all situations are different and only you can determine what you need in your life to be happy.

Svon, our situations really do sound familiar. The fact that you WH wanted to get out but was afraid to end it does that make you feel any better about the a or does it not matter because the end result is the same?

I'm really wondering why WS' have LTA with no intent of leaving their BS? From what I've been reading, the answer can be real simple they are cake eaters, selfish etc. I accept that can be true but I'm really questioning for the WS that really does love the BS and their family, is happy and doesn't want to leave the M not bc of financial issues, they aren't staying until the kids get older etc. I mean the WS that really loves their spouse and enjoys being with them, treats them well (I mean as well as you can while cheating and living a double life) and doesn't want a life without them, what's the point in risking all the things you say you love and value for something that means nothing??

Today I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around why they would keep making the choice of a LTA if what they say they really want is their BS and M?

Butterflybeauty, I know it has helped me. Don’t get me wrong, my husband’s cowardly ways are shameful and no matter the circumstance a long term betrayal feels like a death. But, I don’t think I could have stayed if I believed he loved her and had real feelings for her. If I got the slightest impression that he even missed her, I am pretty sure I would have walked. I was warned by a therapist that he might “ mourn” her. Ya, that wasn’t going to happen in this house. Luckily it didn’t.,Knowing that she was pathetic playground equipment at best helps me realize where “home” and his “real life” always was.., here, where it should have always been. I can reference the affair as just some fucked up shit he was doing similar to drinking, drugs, or gambling. Also, it helps me come to grip with the length. It was long since he didn’t get caught. That’s how most affairs end. Had it been intense and passionate he would have been exposed years ago or he would have left me for her. So in some odd way, this knowledge helps.