Topic is Sleeping.
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 12:36 AM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Thanks to everyone who posted in the topic. I have read all 46 pages. It is an odd comfort to know I am not alone in my feelings and experiences.
My WS met the OW at the fitness center. The A has gone on for three years. In May we moved 1400 miles away; he promising it would be over once we moved. Yet after six months and many lies professing it was over, it remains an EA. I always believed him, only to find I was, again, the patsy. I get all the excuses that many of you have shared: "If I wanted her, I wouldn't be with you," "I'm committed to you and our marriage," "She's just a distraction," etc. etc.
Yesterday he left for our old home town, "to play it out, to end the relationship with her." He has promised to come back fully committed to me with the specter of OW no longer in our lives. To commit to rebuilding our relationship and our future together.
I'm skeptical, obviously. He told her months ago that he left me along with many other fabrications. My only satisfaction is that he has lied to her more than he has lied to me, and, if he really does break it off with her, she may be as devastated as I am now.
But, then when he does come back to me, says it is truly over and that he will no longer have contact with her. How am I to ever know? (Another promise, WS says I will have access to all his devices when he returns - we shall see.). I'm afraid the nightmare will never be over.
CaliforniaNative ( member #60149) posted at 2:21 AM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Why are you playing the pick me dance? Are you financially dependent on him or have children that would be impacted?
CatsEye ( member #69037) posted at 3:43 AM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Let me get this straight.
You caught your cheating husband in a LTA. The two of you moved 1400 miles in order to end the affair. Now, he has gone back to your home town by himself in order to visit his mistress under the excuse that that's how he's going to end the relationship with her and you bought it?
Best of luck.
[This message edited by CatsEye at 9:43 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]
Svon ( member #65627) posted at 3:55 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Dilero, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am also sorry you will be faced with judgement as to how you are handling it when it appears you only wanted support. You have been heard. Many have felt your pain. I hope you find the strength and the passion to demand the life you want and deserve. If that is with him then no one should judge. You have the right to design your life. Happiness is out there. I pray you find it.
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 6:53 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Yes, that is the story. For some odd and inexplicable reason, I believe him this time. As some of those in this topic have written, at this stage of my life I see a better future with him, than without him. But, if it does turn into another sham, I am prepared to seek other options. BTW, there are no financial or family reasons that would compel me to stay in the relationship.
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 6:57 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Thank you, Svon. Yes, support is what I need, not judgment. Love is a mysterious and fickle passion, one not easily abandoned.
amanda123 ( member #43207) posted at 7:51 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Dilero, I feel you are giving him a test. I think you want to trust him to do the right thing by you. I hope for your sake he does.
My question for you is why did he need to go back there to do it in person? Why didn't you go with him?
CaliforniaNative ( member #60149) posted at 8:50 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Dilero- I don’t believe anyone is judging you. At least I am speaking for myself. Since you come here requesting advice, we like to say “Take what you want and leave the rest.” I have been on here over a year now, a club I never wanted to join. If you go to the R forum, they will tell you time and time again the pick me dance does not work. Old ways won’t open up new doors.
If what you’re doing isn’t working change it. You have given him a chance and he didn’t meet your expectation. You don’t need to change the goal, just change the plan. The 180 seems to help a lot of people.
[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 3:39 PM, December 7th (Friday)]
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 10:11 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Amanda123, yes, I do suppose it is a test. The reasons I did not go with him are part excuses, part real. From our old home town, he will be going to northern Ontario to attend to some issues with his elderly father (and I really do not need that drama). Second, I have some obligations here that would be difficult to rearrange. Third, we have two dogs to consider and to take care of. Forth, I really did not want to be around him given the situation he will be addressing in the home town. Regardless, the eventual outcome would probably not be altered with my presence. And, I'm sure my behavior would have been less than refined. All in all, I'm hoping for the best and expecting the worst.
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 10:36 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
CaliforniaNative, your advice is good; if what I'm doing is not working, then change the plan. He is fully aware of the ramifications and, should we split, he will be in a much tougher situation than I. We are both fully aware of the risks should things not work out.
Svon ( member #65627) posted at 11:49 PM on Friday, December 7th, 2018
Dilero, you asked how you would ever again gain trust. I know what is working for me.... checking and double checking all emails and phone.... all apps, etc. my husband has pledged to stay off all social media accounts and removed them form his phone. Furthermore we talk... a LOt. He answers questions all day everyday if I choose to ask. I ask often. I repeat the questuons over and over checking for the same answer or to see if his introspection of himself has changed his thinking. The first question I would want to know from your husband if he were mine is “if she was Just a distraction why do you need to end things in person and what is it in our life that you still need a distraction from?”
I asked my hubby that shortly after DDay... he described his emotional state when affair started. When I asked why he kept it going all these years after he no longer needed a distraction he explained it was about controlling the situation and fear of pain. The pain being me finding out and he being exposed. Controlling her or “feeding the beast” was cowardly yet easier. That being said. He dropped her flat from day 1... something that so scorned her that she did disclose details that I didn’t need to know in hopes of hurting me more and hoping I would leave him. He was right in his thinking that she would never let him walk away without a fight. It does not excuse his cowardice, but is a detail that helps me further understand what was going on which was important to me.
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 5:52 AM on Monday, December 10th, 2018
Svon, thanks for sharing your experience. I wish my WS would exhibit a little patience with me. He gets quickly agitated and shuts down when questioned. If I repeat a question the response is “I’ve already answered that.” I also asked, if she was only a distraction, why did you stay, the response “I can’t explain it, I get frustrated because I can’t find tywords”. Even more mystifying is why he knowingly hurts me with his behavior then claims he loves me, is committed to me and wants to rebuild our relationship.
Yes, he is a cake eater. I just wish he would give up his white cake with lemon frosting.
gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 6:04 AM on Monday, December 10th, 2018
He gets quickly agitated and shuts down when questioned. If I repeat a question the response is “I’ve already answered that.” I also asked, if she was only a distraction, why did you stay, the response “I can’t explain it, I get frustrated because I can’t find tywords”. Even more mystifying is why he knowingly hurts me with his behavior then claims he loves me, is committed to me and wants to rebuild our relationship.
I went through the same thing (sometimes still do).
My advice is to do a 180. That is not behavior of a remorseful spouse (any more than continuing an EA after moving 1400 miles away).
Do a 180 for YOU - to help you get your head on straight. As much as we may want to R - and as much as our WS may profess to want R - his actions speak volumes.
I spent MONTHS thinking I needed to "make new memories" and try to get along during the healing.... and for many that seems to work fine. Unfortunately, my WH's head is so far up his backside that was not a good strategy. Detaching from him as much as I can has been a Godsend. It ain't easy -and I slip plenty - but its really helped me change my focus to ME - where it should have been from day 1.
We cannot change our WS - we can only change ourselves.
M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived
It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies
shellofme ( member #57133) posted at 5:51 PM on Monday, December 10th, 2018
gmc94: good advice, and thank you.
Dilero: I just popped in here to get book recommendations, so I hope it's okay that I'm posting.
Protect yourself and observe your WS behavior. If he's a good candidate for R you'll see it in his actions. It can take a while for most WS to respond appropriately (to pull their heads out of their butts and think about their BS 1st), but there is a lot of help (scripts really) for WS on SI, and in the books we mentioned. Meanwhile, you can protect yourself in whatever way feels right for you. Good luck.
hopeandhealing ( member #63089) posted at 8:33 AM on Tuesday, December 11th, 2018
I have not chimed in on your posts, as I have been out of the country for the past few weeks, but I have now caught up and wanted to say I am sorry you are joining us in this group, but you are amongst some very strong and insightful people who will try to help guide you through our collective experiences.
I wanted to follow up and see how your WS trip home went? What was his behaviour when he returned home? Do you have access to his devices?
GMC gave some great advice with the 180 considering your WS's reactivity to your questions particularly his quickness to anger/become frustrated. HIs response may be defensive in that he sees what he has done, the pain he has caused you and doesn't like to face it (to which I say too bad) or, possibly he has not yet successfully extricated his head from his rectum to truly have remorse for the depth of pain he has caused you. Either way, his emotional response is not what you need to heal and the 180 is generally regarded as an expeditious way to help said WS remove his head from it's current dwelling.
I am 16 months from dday after discovering my WH had 4 PA. I can honestly say I have days I barely think about his As. They no longer consume me and my triggers have no power over me anymore. They have taken a back seat in my life and I am grateful. The peace I now feel came very much from letting go of the outcome and filling my life with things which filled my heart, irrespective of my WH. At the end of the day, I am happy, even happy with my WS and the current state of our M. I do look forward to a life with him, which I can't say I felt even 3-4 months ago.
The nightmare as you call it will be over when you decide it is. When you draw your line in the sand and stick to it, whatever that might be. It is different for us all. For some the WS won't go near the line and follow all the requests of the BS, those are the remorseful ones, the ones who see the damage they caused, accept responsibility and gently answer all the questions, even the ones you ask over and over because in the trauma of it all, you can't keep all the answers straight. Some WS walk right up to or cross the line and it is then up to us to find our voice and follow through with our pre-established consequences, to take back our power to demand better treatment. The 180 allows you that.
In terms of trust, I believe Svon has given some good insights. She has watched her WH's behaviours and he has been patient with her questions, he has been honest and forthright, she can double check his accounts and they communicate a lot. My take from that is he is being honest and vulnerable with her, perhaps I am misinterpreting, but those behaviours are helping her to heal and move forward. Transparency and vulnerability are so key in my mind. There can simply be no more secrets.
I wish you the best on your healing journey.
Me- BW (45)
Him - WH (46)
M - 22 yrs, DC (20,17)
DDay - Aug 2017, 4 LT PA
ButterflyBeauty ( member #68828) posted at 7:14 PM on Wednesday, December 12th, 2018
1 year since DDay is coming up and the holidays are here! As we make our plans for all of the upcoming holidays it seems that the emotional roller coaster has picked up speed. I really want to enjoy celebrating the holidays with my WH and children. It has been really hard emotionally, I feel more sad. I haven't had the desire to do the things that I usually do (baking cookies, shopping, decorating). I haven't even listened to any Christmas music! I am trying not to put a lot of pressure on myself but I want our kids to enjoy the holidays. I don't want to cheat them of that, so I'm trying by best to get it together.
Anyway, my thoughts keep going back to how great the holidays were especially last year and then I remember the A was going on and about to be exposed. I wonder if I'll ever be that happy again. That is what I'm working towards but lets face it, its a long journey. Right now it seems so far off but I am trying! Then when I think about the years before that its the same thing. The weight of the LTA is feeling overwhelming. It wasn't just one holiday season, it was almost 4! Suddenly the amount of time hits me again like the mac truck!
I feel panic about all of that time lost. (then when I think about it I remind myself the small amount of time actually spent with AP and that gives me some relief ) 15 minute quickies still add up over the years though
The fact that it was an LTA is really upsetting me right now. All of the sudden my brain is trying to find a happy place before this nightmare began and it is so far away! I can't believe it. I feel crushed. Our family traditions and all of the things we used to do. Last year especially but now when I think about the good memories, I can't help but think about the A. It was right there all that time!! So again I get sad thinking about how happy I was this time last year, and all the years before and it is hard to be happy this year because now I know the truth. And I feel like I'm loosing these holidays just like the others now feel lost to me also. I can still remember the good memories. Like I have picked up from some of you here, they are MY memories and they are real and true for me but as soon as I remember how happy I was or felt, I then feel hurt and upset.
Im just feeling the magnitude of the length of time right now and I am trying to rationalize it to myself. The length of time sounds long but it wasn't every day, it wasn't a lot of time spent, there weren't any feelings, anniversaries, gifts, etc. Do any of you ever get overwhelmed again by the LTA piece of the infidelity?
I'm trying to keep a positive attitude when I feel like this by reminding myself, this year I can be happy and there are things to celebrate. My WH isn't cheating and hasn't been for a year. Look at the work and progress we have made. This is better because that part of our lives and M are DONE! This is part of reclaiming the holidays and really having them become just OURS again. This is what I'm telling myself. Is that pathetic?
Has anyone else experienced this before? How do you handle these feelings?
Hurtandbroken99 ( new member #59681) posted at 8:11 PM on Wednesday, December 12th, 2018
This is your first Christmas since Dday, so don't be so hard on yourself. A LTA is devastating. My first Christmas after Dday, I didn't want to celebrate at all. (I was sure it would be my last one with my family - I was set to D). So I basically didn't. Didn't decorate. Didn't bake. Didn't help put up the tree. Didn't watch our traditional xmas movie with the kids (I didn't want to cry my eyes out in front of them). Didn't put any ornaments away after - this year I found them all loosely, indifferently dumped into a box, which made me sad all over again.
My point is, Christmas after Dday is hard!!!
Cut yourself some slack. Do the bare minimum for the kids' sake. Let the WS do the rest. Do lots and lots of self care!
Next year, it might already look a lot better. I definitely am having much more fun this year than last year. Give it time.
M 27 years
BS 46, WH 50
DS 23, DS 19
Dday May 29/2017
WH 1+ year PA with his COW
hopeandhealing ( member #63089) posted at 11:22 PM on Wednesday, December 12th, 2018
I can very much relate to what you wrote for my last Christmas. I was unmotivated to do much of anything, but felt I had to go through the motions for the kids, so I did. I left a lot of the shopping to my WH, he had to do more than his typical X-mas prep.
It sounds like my WH's A was similar to yours. NSA quickie sex,no feelings, no gifts, just enough time to get off... only my WH chose 4 different woman totally a span of about 5 years. I can say I did often get overwhelmed with the magnitude of it, but much, much less so now.
I am glad you are able to recognize that your happy memories are still yours, forever. When we consider the LTA going on during the creation of these happy memories, they suddenly become tainted. I spoke to my WH at length about this in the beginning and his response was always the same, that these were also happy memories for him. He wasn't pining over his AP when we were making happy family memories, he was present, with us in those moments. His capacity to separate his other self, the selfish cheating one, was astounding. They didn't occupy headspace when he was with us and I believe him, as he was present, engaged. I know not all are like that.
Yes, 15 minutes adds up over 4 years, I have done the math for my situation, which only served to put me into the rabbit hole again.
I rather expect if your WH is truly remorseful and doing the work, then you can be assured his reflections on his actions taken with his AP are not associated with positive feelings. My WH says he only things about it when I bring it up and when I do, his memories evoke negative emotions of shame, disgust, disappointment. It is hard for us to reconcile, but I have heard other WS say the same, so I have to assume for those truly trying to heal their broken selves, it is accurate.
I for one credit your reframing, it is not pathetic at all. You are choosing to move forward and reclaim your life and your M with your husband. Their is a lot of grief associated with infidelity and the loss of what you thought your marriage was, who you thought your husband was. The stages of grief aren't linear, so some days will be better than others, but trust that with the work, the shifting of the behaviours and time, yes, you can absolutely be happy again and the memory of the A will come and go without the impact it has at present.
Me- BW (45)
Him - WH (46)
M - 22 yrs, DC (20,17)
DDay - Aug 2017, 4 LT PA
Svon ( member #65627) posted at 11:52 PM on Wednesday, December 12th, 2018
Butterflybeauty, 6 months out from DDay I am enjoying the Holidays. It does hurt from time to time if I let my mind wonder, but I am such a competitive person that l refuse to let his AP get what she always dreamt of, my life and me unhappy. She would be so elated to think I am miserable. No way I am allowing her to rob me of any living! If she had her way my husband would have never made holiday memories with me. She wanted them. I refuse to allow her to take my past or present memories. He never gave her what she truly wanted them nor will I now!
CaliforniaNative ( member #60149) posted at 2:47 AM on Thursday, December 13th, 2018
I like to think of it in a different light. There's a popular story in business circles. In the late 1970s, an executive for IBM made a mistake that cost the company millions of dollars. The executive was summoned to CEO Tom Watson's office, where he expected to be fired. When he said he thought he was about to be fired, Watson said "why would I fire you? I just spent millions of dollars educating you!"
If you forget your painful experiences, you can't learn lessons from them. That means you experienced all that suffering for nothing. What's the point of that? Just like a car accident that is not your fault, you can still learn from it.
Cherish your painful memories. They are important learning lessons. Experience teaches you. You've paid the tuition; learn the lesson! Become a better person. Figure out how not to have those experiences in the future. Take what you can from them, wring out every drop of knowledge, and go forward being more awesome.
Topic is Sleeping.