SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So is there any hope? Am I just pissing in the wind?

Now before everyone nuts up, I believed in her and think there is a good person in there trying to come out. Yeah she hurt me in the worst possible way and I may not be able to get over that. I struggle with that all the time. I see something in her. I get the whole rose colored glasses and all that, so if you are just going to hate, save it.

You have a pattern,and as usual, you stuck to it.

You ask a question, knowing the responses you will get. Then, you swoop in and play the white knight, defending her, lash out at those you asked the truth from, and tell everyone if they don't see how great she is, to basically shut up.

What you are doing is rather obvious. You know she studies every post made to,and by you. And picks them apart. You are hoping that she will eventually see how you come to her rescue, time and time again, and will finally get it, and reach true remorse. You are basically using the members here, to provoke her into remorse.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:40 AM, February 6th (Saturday)]

You ask a question, knowing the responses you will get. Then, you swoop in and play the white knight, defending her, lash out at those you asked the truth from, and tell everyone if they don't see how great she is, to basically shut up.

What you are doing is rather obvious. You know she studies every post made to,and by you. And picks them apart. You are hoping that she will eventually see how you come to her rescue, time and time again, and will finally get it, and reach true remorse. You are basically using them members here, to provoke her into remorse.

This. It's been plain to me for a long time. Except I would modify your last sentence: "You are basically using the members here in a futile gambit to provoke her into remorse." It's also plain that it won't work.

You have a pattern,and as usual, you stuck to it.

You ask a question, knowing the responses you will get. Then, you swoop in and play the white knight, defending her, lash out at those you asked the truth from, and tell everyone if they don't see how great she is, to basically shut up.

What you are doing is rather obvious. You know she studies every post made to,and by you. And picks them apart. You are hoping that she will eventually see how you come to her rescue, time and time again, and will finally get it, and reach true remorse. You are basically using the members here, to provoke her into remorse.

This. It's been plain to me for a long time. Except I would modify your last sentence: "You are basically using the members here in a futile gambit to provoke her into remorse." It's also plain that it won't work.

I had the misfortune of a short PM conversation with his "wife". I've interviewed/selected hundreds of people thus most people become apparent quickly, generally very quickly. This one was not an exception in clarity nor character, this one is manipulative utilizing a never-ending/never-realized process of self improvement as her cover.

I had assumed the OP was simply naïve, however HELLFIRE and BUTFORTHEGRACE I think you are spot on in your assessment.

Perhaps HF/BFG and can name this behavior for the journals?

I am glad you know me so well, apparently better than I know myself.

My wife does read my thread. I'm not sure why, it generally upsets her.

I am not using anyone for anything. That is insulting. I may not be handling this situation as you see fit, but I don't use anybody. I typically post when I am struggling with something, hence the questions. Do I appreciate getting hammered? No, but that doesn't mean I am using anyone.

Food for thought, can you use anyone if they don't allow themselves to be used? Why bite if you think that is what I am doing?

I am doing what I am doing for my own reasons and I get a lot of people disagree.

I thought maybe there was someone out there that had been in my shoes and done the same thing and could help me.

Anyway it may not matter as she is looking for houses right now.

I am glad you know me so well, apparently better than I know myself.

My wife does read my thread. I'm not sure why, it generally upsets her.

I am not using anyone for anything. That is insulting. I may not be handling this situation as you see fit, but I don't use anybody. I typically post when I am struggling with something, hence the questions. Do I appreciate getting hammered? No, but that doesn't mean I am using anyone.

Food for thought, can you use anyone if they don't allow themselves to be used? Why bite if you think that is what I am doing?

I am doing what I am doing for my own reasons and I get a lot of people disagree.

I thought maybe there was someone out there that had been in my shoes and done the same thing and could help me.

Anyway it may not matter as she is looking for houses right now.

Why is she looking for houses?

Simple, she thinks I am going to leave

So she's leaving you before you leave her? Or maybe she's just sick of R and doesn't have what it takes so she's choosing to blame you on the way out like many WSes do. Is her leaving a deal breaker for you?

Achilles, you're going to have to step up now especially if she follows through with the separation. As I've said before, your marriage isn't safe no matter how much you avoid and do everything possible to not rock the boat with her. For your own sake, 180 and see a lawyer.

She doesn’t have to worry about that.

Sometimes others can see things we don't. You may not be doing it on purpose.

Why does she think you will leave her? In your last post, you were defending her.

What happened?

I don't think she is leaving me before I can leave her. I'm still here so she had a lot of time to do that. I think she thinks she is not making the progress I wanted and is preparing herself. That is what I am wondering, can she make the progress? I know I have given her way to long.

She still isn't vulnerable to me. She only let go of how the affair made her feel recently when IC got into the whys. Maybe she feels too little to late< I don't know.

Waited, thanks for the kind words that helped me so much. GFY

All I said was she was making progress. I said the progress was slow and uneven. I said I believe she is a good person, basically she needs to deal with her CSA issues and unf..k herself. I wasn't defending her so much as giving her a chance. I have my days when I feel I just can't do it and now is one of those times. She knows

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:21 PM, February 6th (Saturday)]

I am glad you know me so well, apparently better than I know myself.

Before you celebrate your sarcasm, note that external observers can and often do notice patterns in a person that the person doesn't notice in themself.

I sometimes see in this thread a person who has decided on a course of action and is following through.

I sometimes see a person who rationalizes not taking action.

Yes, you know yourself better than any of us does, but ... "O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!"

I don't think she is leaving me before I can leave her. I'm still here so she had a lot of time to do that. I think she thinks she is not making the progress I wanted and is preparing herself.

Ok, but how far do you let this go? Until she goes to a showing? Until she places an offer? I hope for your sake you're right but people who aren't planning on moving soon don't start searching for houses. It's not wise to sit back and pretend like she'll never leave if you don't.

Like I said - if you have an appointment with a lawyer, you don't have to file. You don't have to DO anything. You'll get the information that you need if she does suddenly move out.

We all travel through our personal hell alone. We all have our personal reasons for staying or going.

To say you are long suffering is an understatement. A lot of us feel your wife is very bad news for a lot of reasons, not least of which is her checking you on this thread, which frankly is kind of creepy.

Still, you walk your path alone, and it is obvious that you are going to give her every conceivable opportunity to stay in the marriage. That is your choice. It may be frustrating to others, but you have to live your life.

Having said all that, if she is looking for housing, she is mentally on her way out the door. Time for you to seek and accept solid legal advice. Now is the time to protect yourself. It is perfectly acceptable to do that.

Good luck on your journey.

Anyway it may not matter as she is looking for houses right now.

This type of overreaction on a Friday night concerns me. It really shows your dynamic clearly. You push, she threatens to leave, you fear abandonment and back off. Then you go back to defending her the very next day because it's too scary to let her leave. You'd rather eat your feelings. The misery cycle continues.

I don't think she is leaving me before I can leave her.

So, she is threatening you, just upsetting you then? How does she even "mention" that she's looking at houses that in any way is not presssuring you or scaring you? Total bullshit. If it's not about manipulating whatever convo she is not liking with you, then she would A. actually do it and move out, and B. not bring it up during an argument but instead as a matter of marital business during the day.

I think she thinks she is not making the progress I wanted and is preparing herself.

So you have two choices, then: tell her she IS making progress and feign happiness for her sake or watch her go, right?

Sounds like a lose/lose for you. Lovely.

I'm still here so she had a lot of time to do that.

So then her intention is the former, pressuring you to "get over it" because she knows you can't and won't leave? And because she knows you outright FEAR her leaving? Exactly. Manipulation all the way. Been there, rode that ride, got the t-shirt.

Look, here is a question that my H's IC asked me years back, and it was a great question. It's applicable here, too. And you need to give it some serious thought.

"What happens if she is not able to be the person you need?"

Her "looking for a house" suggests she already knows this to be the case, but you have not accepted this truth yet. She cannot show the remorse, make the changes, be the person you need. She can't.

You are in a battle with yourself, trying to make your needs smaller or be happy with the little she can do. But it's not enough for the real you, the authentic you that lives inside. So you are getting sicker and sicker--unable to make your needs small enough and shut the sick feeling in your gut up, and you are also unable to leave her and the pain behind. This leads to a fierce depression.

Honestly I am worried about the emotions you cycle through and your struggle to accept this horribly painful reality you are in. Are you currently in IC? Do you ever consider hurting yourself? I am worried. You need support.

My darkest, DARKEST days were those exactly like what you are going through. The idea of D triggered such FOO feelings and old trauma--rejection, failure, worthlessness, humiliation, abandonment, fear... I don't even have the words to describe how trapped and terrible I felt. Please know that IC saved me from a certain suicide attempt. I could not make my H into an acceptably safe partner, and I could not leave. The darkness swallowed me up for many months if not years. I hope you are getting the help you need for you. It's the greatest gift you can ever give yourself. You do matter. You are important. The way she is making you feel about yourself is not reality, but your absolute value is.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:12 PM, February 7th (Sunday)]

Just wondering..... with all that she has done for for long, and how little she has moved forward, what would she have to do for you to say enough is enough? What is the straw that will break the camel’s back? When do you say you that you are tired of being in the hell that she has put you in and decide to leave?

Other posters say you’re here to show your wife how committed you are to her and how you will always rush to her rescue.

I think that’s only half the reason... you know deep down you’re in a fucked up situation and you should leave. But instead of having that argument with yourself, you’re having it with SI instead.

Simple, she thinks I am going to leave

I can't imagine why she would think that. She just got done making sure she could get to party with OM at going away party and despite the fact that you knew about it before it happened, you made no attempt to even object, which Hell Fire pointed out to you when you claimed you didn't know he would be there or until after it happened.

Strange way she shows remorse.

So now they do not work together I guess. And you believe the following??

(1) OM will not easily get her new work number from her former co workers she stays in touch with

(2) That he will not show up at some after work get together with new co workers or old co workers

(3) That she would leave if he showed up

(4) That she would even tell you, although she probably knows you will do nothing if she did tell you.

The reason you keep getting the comments you do not like is because most people do not like to see someone get beat up continuously and refuse to stand up for themselves.

You're gonna be living on the edge for a long long time which is sad.

You are in a battle with yourself, trying to make your needs smaller or be happy with the little she can do. But it's not enough for the real you, the authentic you that lives inside. So you are getting sicker and sicker--unable to make your needs small enough and shut the sick feeling in your gut up, and you are also unable to leave her and the pain behind. This leads to a fierce depression.

^^^^^^^^^^^^This, Achilles. These are also my thoughts.

Sorry, friend, but I'm going to bore you with a quick story about my infidelity experience:

By definition, I am reconciled with my wife. It turned out that there was a long-term affair---not as long as your wife's, but still a few years. My wife was slow coming around---not pining after her AP(I don't know if I could have tolerated that), but like your wife, she didn't "get it" like I thought she would. At first, I thought just the discovery alone would snap my wife back into her old mindset. But instead, I got some lip service, and some actions, but NOTHING like I thought I would get. Some arguments; some lack of the devastation it caused me; but most of all, it was this overall lack of effort that I can't easily put into words. I just FELT it. And the longer that it went on, the more that my mind lacked the belief that this could be happening. I mean, we had years and years and years of a good marriage. And she isn't snapping back. How is this even possible? Will she ever snap back?

My answer turned out to be NO; the change back turned out to be wayyyy more gradual than I could have ever thought. And I paid a hell of a price for the wait with no guarantee for success. Today, years after she has been a remorseful spouse, I still get angry at myself. I should have divorced her. I, should have at the bare minimum, been deep in the divorce process, and stopped it if she was at a level of remorse that I found acceptable. My anger at myself is exactly what OwningitNow stated above---my authentic self struggled with what occurred. I compromised my own self-worth(in all fairness, I wasn't fully aware of this at the time), and my body was telling me that this was not acceptable. I was accepting 'less-than'. I sure as hell know my worth today, but that doesn't change what happened then.

That's the message that I've always tried to convey to you---don't accept less than your worth. And don't undervalue yourself either. You are self-sacrificing for whatever reasons--chivalry, fear, people-pleasing, (insert reason).....and it is eating you up inside. It isn't healthy for you OR her. I am sure that she has many many traits that you love, but that is not what we are here to study, dissect, and give our opinion on. This site deals with infidelity, and like it was previously stated, there are things that are much clearer from an outside, uninvested view that you may simply not....or refuse to see.

It's wrong that your wife reads your posts. The moment that she had her feet put to the fire here, she ran. And I guarantee you that although IC may be a great assistance to her(and she should continue this path), she would jump at any advice from a counselor that suggested this place is not helpful....because she doesn't get it. She doesn't get that this is YOUR place of safety, and if she had her priorities straight, she would encourage your place for advice....without reading and giving her own opinion. This site is for YOU. It could be for her too, but she would have to get real with herself, and she isn't there. At least not yet. Look up lostgirl70's profile---my wife's. Two fucking posts. That's because she couldn't face facts in the beginning either, but she respects that it is MY place of healing, and didn't/doesn't interfere with my postings here....out of respect....the one thing your wife still isn't freely giving to you. She didn't cheat due to her childhood issues. She cheated due to her lack of character. Her looking for homes is still all about her. Instead of 'poor me, my husband might leave', it should be 'I can see how much he is still hurting. Maybe my efforts have not been enough'.

Is she giving her all? That is what the members here are pointing out to you.

You can lash out at some members. That's ok. The thing is, every person who has commented on your thread wants better for you. We see your worth, even if you don't. Even when your wife won't.

You keep saying her progress is slow. I'm gonna call bullshit on that. She gives crumbs, and you want to believe she is getting it, that she is remorseful.

When a WS is remorseful, the progress is no longer slow. It may take awhile for them to work through their shit, but the pain they cause their BS ends. When they get it, the pain we feel is due to past actions, not current. They move mountains to make sure they never hurt us again.

There is no progress here. There is an extremely manipulative woman, who is continuing to abuse her passive husband.

You will continue to allow this until you find your worth. Or, until she leaves you for a new OM.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:05 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

Look, I'm not trying to celebrate sarcasm or anything else. I have nothing to celebrate.

I post when I am feeling down and need some help. Comments that rip me do not help me. I get that I frustrate a lot of good people here. I have no other motives than to get advice. I am sorry that I seem to piss people off, not my intention, unless I specifically do so.

As far as the home searching, I found that out by looking on her search history on her phone, which I have total access to.

I am traveling through my own personal hell. It sucks and I do what I am doing for my own reasons. I have suffered for a long time, my choice, for my own reasons.

OIN,

She may not be able to fix herself. I am in a battle with myself and I have no idea what side may win. I do what I do for me. I will not hurt myself, I could never do that.

JB,

you nailed exactly what I am feeling, that is what I was looking for, someone who can tell me what I am going through without slamming me. Hard love without the criticism . Thank you

I feel like I owe her since I knew what I was getting into. That may not make sense to a lot of people, but that is how I feel.

Anyways thanks to all of you.

n