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I Can Relate :
Long Term Affairs Part 38

Topic is Sleeping.

steph ( member #11564) posted at 7:05 PM on Saturday, March 3rd, 2018

I haven't been on much for a while. Sometimes I check in and read posts to keep up with the conversations.

Lodestar, if I may. My H is the king of false R, having his cake and eating it too. His LTAs were over 12 years. First it was with a woman 18 years younger then there was some sort of extremely inappropriate relationship with her daughter who's in her early 20s. They both seemed to think it was his responsibility to support them financially while it's me who makes the larger salary. It's all sickeningly dysfunctional and was very sneaky, deceitful, selfish and cruel. Both these women have been homeless and they manipulated him into providing money for their shelter and food, and they like nice places and good food, then again, he agreed to do it like a knight in shining armor and I do not know everything.

There were periods of years when we were in false R and I didn't know it then I would either randomly snoop or something would blindside me.

I'm not sure how many false Rs there have been, maybe 3.

I regretted deeply that I didn't dump him the first time I found out. I've been hurt deeply by a man who is a master at deception.

Last summer was the end of my rope. I had thrown him out a few times last year and he kept coming back without my consent so then I made him stay in another part of our house.

How did I realize false R? Discoveries

What ended it, how did I end it? I had no control. It was up to him. He even lied to our counselors that he had given up contact as he had to agree to end contact for us to have marriage counseling. I found a phone and called the counselors. I continued IC and he went back to IC. This was July of last year.

I decided to divorce him. I moved to a different part of our house. My job demands so much of me emotionally and physically and time wise that I decided I would retire in July of 2018 and then divorce him. This way I could focus on me.

How it ended? He had a car accident. It was a serious accident. Anyone else in the car would have been killed without question. Four air bags and pure luck saved his life.

At the hospital while I was on his phone taking care of some business he insisted I do for him, the officer presented him with a phone that he'd found in the car. He thought he was doing him a favor. My H looked horrified because he knew that I knew that phone was his connection to her. He refused to give the phone to me.

I did my wifely duty of support and our kids all came together to help out. He had a realization and threw the phone away and cut off all ties. He said he had acted foolishly and that he had treated not only me terribly but our adult kids as well. They have no idea of his affair, but he has cheated them of family time and he's cheated them of being present when our family has been together.

What did HE do to change it into proper R. He went to his IC and worked on himself and WHAT HE COULD DO FOR ME to be a better man and better husband.

Our ICs work together and will do our MC as a team. He's ready to begin and we'll start again in April.

How is it different? He is PRESENT when we are with our kids. They all live far away so when we get to see them about every six weeks or so he is fully engaged.

He puts effort into being a team player at home. We do things together. We both work long hours, but I've always managed to make time for us, now he is doing it too. He's also paying attention to me and giving me the attention I deserve. I've told him what I needed for years and now he's actually following through. He knows the decision had been made to divorce and he is on delicate footing.

I don't trust him at all and wonder if this is another false R. If it is, then this is over.

I found IC to be a great help to me as I've kept all of this private so I wasn't talking to anyone about it and now I do. It's also helped me sort out what I want to do in this marriage and what I want to do in other areas of my life.

The people on this forum really encouraged me to go to IC last year and it has helped me greatly. We did do MC twice before with different counselors and they were not the right fit, basically for him. This time, with my IC and his IC, the fit works for him.

That's my weird story, certainly not what I wanted for my marriage or my life. I've worked my life to be a genuine, ethical, caring person and I'll continue to do that. His decisions are up to him. If he messes up, we are done.

Him WS
LTA 14 yrs as far as I know

posts: 2445   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2006
id 8108059

steph ( member #11564) posted at 7:05 PM on Saturday, March 3rd, 2018

Whoops, double post!

[This message edited by steph at 1:06 PM, March 3rd (Saturday)]

Him WS
LTA 14 yrs as far as I know

posts: 2445   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2006
id 8108058

Lodestar ( member #58558) posted at 9:05 PM on Saturday, March 3rd, 2018

Thanks Steph for sharing. I remember your story from some time ago. Must admit, you are one tough cookie. Way to go!

Just to clarify - I don't suspect WH is in contact with AP or is acting out in any other way. I just wouldn't call this thing we are doing R. Rather we are in limbo. So I'm just wondering how to turn things around. How to give R a proper go to see if it woulf change anything or not.

But thanks to everyone who has chimed in.

Me - BW (37)
Him - WH (40)
Married for 6 years, together for 13
DDs - 4 & 6 years old

posts: 331   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2017   ·   location: Elsewhere
id 8108108

northeasternarea ( member #43214) posted at 4:33 AM on Sunday, March 4th, 2018

Steph, glad you checked back in. You have been through so much.

Lodestar, I do believe that the devil is out to destroy marriages. Both of us had to work on our personal relationship with God.

The only person you can change is yourself.

posts: 4263   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2014
id 8108325

Sibelserenity ( new member #62931) posted at 7:58 AM on Sunday, March 4th, 2018

Can someone please let me in on all these abbreviations. Dd.. we pa ect..

posts: 1   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2018
id 8108369

steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 1:08 PM on Sunday, March 4th, 2018

Sibelserenity, there's a list of abbreviations in the Healing Library. You can find it by clicking on The Healing Library found in the yellow box at the top left hand corner of these pages.

DD usually means darling daughter. DDay means DDay (Discovery Day). PA is physical affair or physical adultery.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4705   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8108412

gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 6:54 AM on Thursday, March 8th, 2018

Anyone successful R from 9yr (+/-) LTA?

I posted on another forum and someone suggested I head here (but honestly find it difficult to weed through 126 pgs of thread on all topics related to LTAs).

Long story (aren't they all?) but 8 weeks out from DDay of an 9+yr LTA with a former girlfriend my WH kept secret from me for our entire 27yr relationship (23yrs married). Was non-sex "lunch" for 17 years, then turned PA in 2008 (while we were on vacation in her city - I'm with kids an hour away while he's at a conference).

Because she lived in another state, had sex every 6-24 months when she'd come to town (My sister lives- and our son attended college - in city where OW lives, but WH denies any other contact with OW in her city despite SEVERAL trips there over past 20 yrs).

2017, she moves to our city. Last sex was fall, when he says he'd decided to stop the PA... but then he seems to pursue her, more (he says non-sex lunch), then some argument.

Jan 2018 OW texts me and tells me they had PA while WH & I dated, after married, while conceiving DD, and he's tried to sleep with her for last 20 years and she's refused. I confront WH and learn OW was lying about timeline - PA began 2008. When WH confronted her (without me present), she said she told me about affair bc she was pissed at him over some argument they had (not even about the A). There's more to that I'm sure, but will probably never really know what set her off.

Bottom line - she's an old girlfriend he dated in late 70s/early 80s but maintained a "friendship" with ever since. I THOUGHT he'd told me about all past loves (many of whom were invited to our wedding) but he conveniently kept this one secret for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS!

WH wants to R. I'm not so sure.

This is NOT his first transgression.

He cheated on me when we were engaged. Alcohol driven fight, he split and went to a massage parlor where he got a BJ I found the receipt, confronted, forgave. Sweated it a bit when first married. By 10-yr mark, I had some suspicions about a COW, confronted (he denied), and moved on. I have not had even the slightest suspicion about him for at least a decade - not even a tremble - EVER. So this came as a total shock (silly me for thinking a marriage would hit a point of solid mass that it wasn't in the field of sight).

He also cheated on prior lovers (he was mid 30s when we met had a couple of "serious" relationships, none lasting more than 4 years, never lived with anyone).

Since DDay, he's said he's looked back and ALL of his relationships have involved infidelity - either his or his [then]partner's. I've never so much as looked at another man (in fact, I've been "hit on" several times in last 5 years, and ALWAYS called him immediately - because [again, silly me], I would feel guilty if another man kissed me!!!!)

WH says he wants R that it was NEVER going to be anything he'd leave me for (now thinks its conflict avoidance, but he's not the most self enlightened soul, so I'm gonna give it time for him to jump to the next explanation - suspect there will be several). But I'm not sure I want to R. I think I will ultimately be able to forgive (at least it's not totally ruled out), but ....

1. I don't respect him - don't see being married to someone I cannot respect

2. I just cannot see getting over how someone can lie and cheat and deceive for such a long time. It's just so inconceivable to me. I can better imagine why a person murders their own child than I can even try to imagine how someone does something like this.

3. I am a very strong woman working in a man's world. My nickname is "badass" (literally). I feel the A is sabotage of my success and strengths - and that I'm forced to choose between my marriage and my identity (and if it's me vs it, I kind of think I prefer me). Don't get me wrong - he's not a slouch and has been successful, is the primary breadwinner, etc - he does wear the pants in the family.

4. He continued A even after our daughter was (a) institutionalized for some hefty mental health issues (ADHD, self harm, depression) (b) raped the 1st time (c) raped the 2nd time (d) institutionalized a 2nd time (now with addition of PTSD from sexual assaults), and doesn't seem to "get" that he didn't just cheat on me - he cheated on our family. In fact, if we do D, I have concerns that I would have to lie about the reason, as I am not sure that her fragile mental state could survive knowing her hero/daddy has been a decade-long cheater.

5. He was in therapy early in our marriage (FOO issues), and then again about 3-4 years ago when forced by some problems at work (not sexual - or so he says I now worry that may have been a lie too)... how can someone see a therapist and not feel a PA is something to talk about????

6. I have SERIOUS concerns about my financial future. I'm well educated, but working a job that pays <25% of his income the job ends in 2 yrs and my financial future is uncertain even if we R.

7. At my age, I recognize the odds are not good that I will find another life "partner". But I'm not sure I want to be a "partner" who was willing to commit a fraud for the entire partnership.

we are in MC it took him a month after Dday, but he is in IC (tho it honestly feels like another place where he can go and tell secrets)

This week has been a pretty good one (last Thurs I cried more in one day than I probably had in the last decade I think the forums are helpful to combat the obsessive thoughts, triggers, and fantasies about telling every friend the OW has on FB about what a gem of a person she is.... did I mention her significant other throughout this time is ALSO married? Or that she and my husband had sex 6-12 months after they broke up in the 80s and as she was leaving she mentioned she had gotten married in the interim [another little tidbit he failed to mention during our 27yrs together]) I don't know why it feels helpful to write out the story, but it does.

Anyone have experience with this type of intermittent, but LONG LTA?

successful recovery?

he's doing the best he can with the apologies, but it's like pulling teeth to get facts about A from him - it is getting better, but talk about slow/tedious/exhausting!

He's always been a good husband to me - he cooks/household stuff, likes romance, is reasonably attentive, etc. I just don't see how that makes up for such deceit/betrayal for such a LONG LONG LONG time.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:20 PM, August 30th, 2019 (Friday)]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3824   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8111056

honesttoafault ( member #27105) posted at 1:14 AM on Friday, March 9th, 2018

gmc: I have been through a LTA for over 16-17 years (never really found out the length), and like you, many, many false R's.

It can be too much to process everything.

I found that I ended up getting so concerned with the "trees" that I didn't really look at the "forest". I would be concentrated on all the details, that I didn't see the big picture. I was so engrossed in so many little things.

Like you, I found that there were so many good things that I put up with some horrible stuff living on crumbs that became less and less.

stbxWh#2 cheated on gf's before he met me, and he admitted with the last false R, that the gf he said he broke up with before he met me, he never actually broke up with, so in essence, I was an OW!!! She actually broke up with him when she found out he married me, and I had no idea!! This was over 25 years ago, and I didn't know.

WH would promise the moon, stars and sun, sometimes acted so wonderfully, then another dday.

Finally, another OW, and I had enough. Being away from him has finally allowed me to see the whole picture, and although I am going to be financially destitute, I had no other choice.

You need to step back as much as possible and see the whole picture. Don't sell yourself short like I did over the financials, don't let that be the deciding factor. Don't focus on whether or not you will be able to meet someone new. Peace of mind and not being stressed over whether or not he is cheating, whether it's yet another false R, or if he will cheat in the future is soooo freeing and calming.

I love my husband, and always will, even though he shattered me and would continue to shatter me, but I found I couldn't live like that anymore.

True R is a lot of work. Recovering from a LTA is even more work. It's not just a mistake, but a long term pattern of lies and cheating.

posts: 2619   ·   registered: Jan. 7th, 2010
id 8111730

Lazarus ( member #62342) posted at 12:27 AM on Friday, March 16th, 2018

Does a 7.5 month* EA/PA qualify as a LTA?

* as far as I know

posts: 876   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018   ·   location: Mid-Atlantic
id 8116779

Mickeymom ( member #45917) posted at 3:34 AM on Saturday, March 17th, 2018

I think you could call it that. I don’t really know any parameter many of us here were 2 or more years but LTA short term one night it’s all betrayal it’s all pain.

posts: 1200   ·   registered: Dec. 10th, 2014
id 8117546

donna3 ( member #44976) posted at 2:52 AM on Sunday, March 18th, 2018

Hi ladies. It has been a while since I posted but I try to come back to read every few weeks. Sometimes it is still painful to visit this site as it brings back so many feelings. I am almost 4.5 years out from dday. I still have my bad moments but I can usually talk my way thru it fairly quickly. The LTA part of this whole mess really kicked my ass. The lies, the ILY's, the thousands of phone calls, texts, FB messages, sex over 100 times, many hotel sleepovers just really messed with my mind. Sometimes I still wonder, " was (fill in the blank) better with her?" My self esteem and confidence is back, but never really 100%. She was younger, thinner, firmer, etc and I am now in my sixties and she will forever stay 45. The first two years were pure hell and I cried so much I literally broke my ears. They now cry too when I cry.

I wanted to save my marriage from the get go. I did so much wrong in the beginning because I did not find SI for almost a year. I was so naive to the ways of a cheater I wanted to believe so much he told me that I did not realize that liars continue to lie. Not about the big stuff but anything he thought would upset the delicate balance I was trying to establish. It took a long time to get to all the real truths. I wanted to make this work. But so much depended on what my H was going to do. I reevaluated at 6 month intervals as best I could. Finally I had all the information.

My H is now the model remorseful H. Daily he thanks me for the gift of R. He thanks me for saving his life, twice. Once bc I got him to the hospital quickly when he was having a heart attack one year into R and the other for my willingness to let him stay and allow him to show me that he can be the man he wants to see in the mirror. He was on a path of self destruction at the time of his A: depression, self loathing, drinking and the A. By allowing him to stay he realized that there is someone who sees good in him, who was willing to give him a chance to get back on track ti being a good person.

I also had to work on the M. Things had gone sideways (but I never thought enough that he would do what he did). I was totally blindsided and his betrayal hit me very hard. It took a good 3.5 years to get to the point where I felt somewhat normal again.

Now our M is very loving and we make sure that the love languages of the other are being met. We work on our M all the time. I really like this new guy - he is even better than the man I originally married. We have a much better understanding of what it takes to be a good partner.

Do I trust 100% that this will ever happen again? No, but it is highly unlikely. I am wiser now too and know what to look for. And H knows that my love is now conditional and one screw up and I won't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

So, for those of you in the midst of this LTA mess and wondering can it ever get better again? yes it can but it takes a lot of work - most of it falls on your WS. And you have to be able to heal yourself. That is something it took me a long time to figure out. There has to be no more lies. Communication needs to take place. And a willingness to lay it all out in the open, the good and the bad.

Good luck to all of you, whatever path you take. Figure out what YOU want and what you want out of your WS. They have to be wiling to do the lions share of the work. And if the only way out of this for you is to part ways, then so be it. You need to find happiness in the end, with our without the. I was lucky in that it was with.

Healing,in R
Married 39 years now, grown children
DD: 11/14/13,EA PA,TT
DD2: 9/12/14 found out LTPA of 2.5 yrs
Age 62 Yikes!

posts: 649   ·   registered: Sep. 23rd, 2014   ·   location: Ohio
id 8118065

Forevermore ( member #56538) posted at 4:56 AM on Sunday, March 18th, 2018

Thanks Donna3 for the post! It was a nice to read your post. I am glad to hear that there is light at the end of this tunnel. I myself am only 1 year 7 months out! I feel like it's been an eternity, and I have the new wrinkles and white hair to prove it, but I know I'm just a baby in the recovery process. So it's nice to hear from someone father down the line! Thanks

DDay 8/2016
Married 9 years
On the fence
"Time will tell"

posts: 154   ·   registered: Dec. 24th, 2016
id 8118104

Bstrom ( new member #61482) posted at 7:14 PM on Thursday, March 22nd, 2018

Donna3, thank you for your post. I am very new in my journey to peace and happiness. What you wrote hit home to me and I thank you, it is something I needed to hear today, as I am feeling like I am in a black hole.

God Bless you and your continued happiness. I hope to one day get to the place you are.

posts: 11   ·   registered: Nov. 20th, 2017
id 8121623

needfriendshere ( member #43350) posted at 7:58 AM on Sunday, March 25th, 2018

It’s been a while since I’ve been here. Welcome to those who are new to this thread. May you find some comfort and reassurance here. I know I have!

It is good to hear how well you are doing, Donna3. I’m also over 4 years from Dday. And it’s been quite a ride with a lot of ups and downs. Currently H and I are trying to make it work again after a trial separation. That came after I found out H is working with a woman he was pursuing before hooking up with OW. They’ve been working together for a year and he didn’t think to tell me. I found out by discovering emails between them. In them, she was often flirtatious. He wasn’t, but he was still on a slippery slope.

Now H is in IC and is - I hope - learning proper boundaries and what it means to be totally transparent to me, his wife. And he’s dealing with his issues. It’s the only way I could take him back. We’ve started over in many respects. We had to. We’re in separate bedrooms, but we are dating, talking things out, and even cuddling when the mood hits us. But not much more. Not yet.

LTA’s are brutal. It may take a lifetime to completely establish trust again. But as long as our FWS’s are willing to do all they need to if or when they stumble or fall, there is always hope. I have not given up on my H or on my M. We have 29 years together and two beautiful sons to show for it. But honestly? God help us all. Ours is not an easy road. Hugs to you all!!

[This message edited by needfriendshere at 2:00 AM, March 25th (Sunday)]

Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's LTA lasted 6 years, his EA's lasted during most of our M, but we are both trying hard to R.

posts: 1542   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2014
id 8123602

northeasternarea ( member #43214) posted at 1:50 PM on Sunday, March 25th, 2018

I can see that my WH’s boundaries are much improved. He has done so much work on himself. He’s transparent. We have weathered challenges together. We don’t talk much about the affair anymore. Life is good, we work well as a team. But something is still missing. I decided to return to IC. Maybe it’s my lack of being all in. Is good enough really good enough?

The only person you can change is yourself.

posts: 4263   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2014
id 8123666

needfriendshere ( member #43350) posted at 3:30 AM on Monday, March 26th, 2018


You asked:

Is good enough really good enough?

That's something we each need to determine on our own. My H would say that what he is doing now is good enough for us to get over the past and live happily ever after. And we are, once again, in R. So, for him, what we have is good enough. Is it good enough for me? Well, I'm still here! So I would have to say, "yes, for now...."

Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's LTA lasted 6 years, his EA's lasted during most of our M, but we are both trying hard to R.

posts: 1542   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2014
id 8124100

Insearchofme ( member #55624) posted at 4:03 AM on Monday, March 26th, 2018

Hi everyone, I’m not sure where to begin or if this is the right place for this post. I’m stuck. I feel stuck. There’s a part of me that wishes he had left me for the OW. He is the model H now. But I’m broken. I’m hardened. I’m here in this marriage because of kids and family, but if I’m being honest..I’m still here out of fear. Fear of what my life would look like. We have a good life. Before A we had a good life. It wasn’t perfect. I think we both felt a bit empty in the passion dept but compare to other friends we knew, it was the normal. For me, status quo was ok. I had the kids, made the vows and commitments so even if I didn’t feel the sparks anymore, I wasn’t going anywhere. We were good. But I guess not so much for him. But once it all came out, H did 180 and has tried to be the best H ever. Problem is, still no sparks for me, and I’m resentful, he got to go out and have sparks with someone else! He got to feel again all of those things. What if I wanted those things too? But I’m still here...but now I’m just feeling stuck.. Anyone else relate to this? What do I do? I’m turning 51 soon,,,not the way I expected this phase of my life to be looking..

Me BS 49
WH 55
Married 21 years
DD 1 5/27/16 followed by TT
DD 2 10/1/16 OW sends texts of affair
Attempting R

posts: 182   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2016
id 8124124

northeasternarea ( member #43214) posted at 3:49 PM on Monday, March 26th, 2018

So I would have to say, "yes, for now...."

That's pretty much where I am. i feel like I am always evaluating.

The only person you can change is yourself.

posts: 4263   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2014
id 8124352

needfriendshere ( member #43350) posted at 4:01 PM on Monday, March 26th, 2018


Your post did resonate with me. I can’t lie. Throughout these 4 years of R, there have been times I’ve felt stuck too. Like I had no other option but to try to make it work with an H who had hurt me beyond anything I could imagine. And for what? A piece on the side?

But even at our lowest points - we actually hit another about a month or so ago - I still knew that, not too deep inside, I’d be more unhappy without him than with him. Flaws and all. Maybe it’s partly because, while he’s been working on himself, I’ve had the opportunity to really examine my self. And what I saw often wasn’t very pretty. I’m deeply flawed too. I also keep coming back to the fact that my commitment to our M meant and still means something to me.

I’ve accepted the fact that H and I will never be as happy as we could have been if he hadn’t cheated. And there’s this uninvited third party that may always be lingering on the sidelines. OW has not given up. But it’s still better than what my life would be like without him.

Our sons want us to be together and they’re worth 10 of him. And after 29 years, I just am not ready to start over. I’m tired. I do love H, but never as much as I used to. Maybe that love we once had will come back. I hope so. I just know that I’m not stuck. I’m living the best life I can right now. And I keep hoping that, in time, it will be real good again.

I wish you the best. (((Insearchofme)))

Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's LTA lasted 6 years, his EA's lasted during most of our M, but we are both trying hard to R.

posts: 1542   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2014
id 8124361

northeasternarea ( member #43214) posted at 4:23 PM on Monday, March 26th, 2018

needfriendshere, so glad you popped back in.

The only person you can change is yourself.

posts: 4263   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2014
id 8124381
Topic is Sleeping.
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