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The last few days have been just absolutely horrible. I'm tired to my core of thinking about this. Wednesday night's visitation did not happen. He arrive and exhaled booze on me so I told him to leave. He went to the police station and offered to take a breath test at the same time as I was calling to report him driving under the influence. So the officer asked if I would be satisfied, and let him take the kids if he passed a breath test. I said absolutely. So he said he'd do that and call me back. Ten minutes later, the officer called back and said my ex refused the test after all. Of course he did. Duh! So yesterday I went to the court and filed for a modification to our visitation agreement. I don't want him driving with my kids and if they are going to visit him at his house, another responsible adult has to be present. I don't know if I have enough anecdotal evidence for the judge to do ANYTHING frankly, but I'm going to try.

Tonight he showed up with his girlfriend driving. I'm fine with that. But my oldest daughter did not want to go. She told me some of the stuff that happened over the summer and she said she does want to see him but she doesn't want to go to his house for the weekend. But I had to make her go. Thank you very much for the stake through the heart

I pulled him aside and tried to get him to understand that I am not trying to hurt him. That we all care and just want him to get help. Brick wall.

Now, in order to keep from climbing the walls, I'm going to head out to my first al-anon meeting. At least I can admit when I need help.

Maleable-

So sorry for what you are dealing with right now.

Your children are so young.

I would be terrified about leaving them alone with an alcoholic!

There must be laws in place to protect your children in situations like this. A lawyer in your state would be able to let you know what they are.

At the least- supervised visitations.

His episode at the police station may actually help you. They must have a written report describing what happened that night and his refusal to take a breathalyzer etc.

You may need to go to court to protect your children.

Their safety has to come first.

And..who knows? Maybe losing joint custody and/or visitation rights could help him hit bottom? maybe he will begin to see that his life has become umanageable and that his drinking has become a huge probelm.

Thanks njgal480. I did file and request an emergency hearing. I will get the report from the police department. I did speak with a lawyer and the lawyer says that it is your word against his unless you have some evidence. The police report will help. And the things my daughter has told me about his mental state over the summer and the fact that he is basically in his room "working" while they are visiting. I don't know if that is enough to make it clear that there's a problem. I have a bunch of people who would happily testify that they've smelled alcohol on him when he's picking up and dropping off my kids. But still, that's not evidence. We'll see on Wednesday. But I've gone to al-anon and will continue to go and will get my daughter's some counseling. That's my biggest concern, that they understand that daddy isn't the same person right now. They've been feeling bad that he doesn't want to spend any time with them. And you know as well as I do if they don't get some education about this disease, they're going to end up marrying one themselves.

Can you take the children to see a child psychologist? or a family therapist?

They could use someone to talk to process everything that is going on.

And....the psychologist could testify on behalf of what is best for your kids in terms of visitation etc.

Just some thoughts.

Yes, I am taking them to the therapist tomorrow. I am pretty nervous about court. Not sure what I'm nervous about. I mean, I'm doing what I have to and it's not like I enjoy going to court, wasting money I don't have and taking MORE time out of work. But the way he makes me feel, like a little child whose been bad. I don't know if that's normal dealing with an alcoholic. He's so overbearing and keeps sending me messages about how wrong I am. He's making me second guess myself. But I KNOW I'm not wrong.

(((MaleableReality)))

I know it it rough going to court to protect the children from the risk the other parent poises. I just found out today my X appealed the ruling that the judge denied her petition for unsupervised visits.

As with my X, your WS is going to continue to shift the blame to you. All his problems are caused by you and everything else in his life. That's the alcoholic pushing the problems out to anyone who will accept them. It's far easier than looking in the mirror the see what is truly the source of their problem.

Hang in there. You are doing the right thing for your cildren. Get them into counseling. It has helped my children adjust.

Take care,

betrayed1012

Thanks Betrayed1012 and everyone who helped me these last two weeks. I get overwhelmed thinking I have to deal with this for the next 12 years (and beyond)!! Court went pretty well, considering that the ink was not dry yet on our "amicable" divorce so the judge was a bit peeved to see us. I didn't have much physical evidence that he drinks so I am surprised he was able to do anything frankly. But he said he does make orders like this all the time and had no problem doing it, but it would apply to both of us since he had as much evidence that my ex drinks as he has evidence that I do (I don't). So the order is that there is no drinking within 24 hours of picking up/driving the children and no drinking at all during visits. So, for me that means there are two days a month that I could have a drink if I want. LOL. No sweat off my back. Losing that one or two beers a month or glass of wine now and then doesn't matter. But we'll see what happens with him. I don't think he'll be able to do it, but perhaps hearing the judge say that we'd meet again in December and if things weren't improved, "loss of visitation is a possibility." He loves his kids, the threat of losing them should help him see things more clearly. I hope that he takes this opportunity to clean up his act. I am not going to doubt, I'm going to hope that he does. And I'll be hyper vigilant from this point forward. I hope I don't have to go further than this.

Maleable-

It sounds good. Maybe the judge's ruling and comments will have an impact on him.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your children.

Hi everyone. I am brand new here, I just happened to stumble upon this website last week and was reading a bit before I decided to register yesterday.

Today I was hoping to find someone's story whose might be similar to mine. I'll try to make this as succinct as possible:

My husband and I have been married 20 years. He is an alcoholic who was able to hide his daily drinking until a few years ago when in a short amount of time he developed diabetes, got very ill, and his drinking got even more out of control. We, as a family (we have 4 kids 14yrs to 23 yrs) confronted him and he went to treatment the first of 3 times. In Dec of 2009 I discovered text messages that were obviously to and from another woman.

For a long time (like a year) he insisted that it was just "talk" and it was just someone he had met in treatment the first time around and said it would end. In October of 2010 he went back to treatment and while he was gone I checked cell phone bills and discovered he had been texting and talking to this person again. I called the number and when the OW answered with her name I realized who she was. She was his girlfriend when we first met. He broke up with her to get together with and marry me. When we were first together this woman used to try to contact him over and over, sent letters saying she was pregnant, told me that they were still sleeping together.

Long story short, I made the discovery that my husband has been cheating on me with this woman off and on throughout our 20 year marriage. I really had NO idea, none. In fact, I was completely positive that my husband would never be unfaithful. Boy was I wrong.

The past year of dealing with his infidelity, his alcoholism and his depression (which came on the heels of the addiction and diabetes diagnosis) have been sheer hell. He tried to commit suicide at the end of May, as well. He hates himself.

Now we come to what I'm dealing with now. All kinds of things on different levels. She is texting him again and he did not tell me, even though I asked him to tell me. He has not responded to the texts and just deleted them as they came in but I'm hurt and angry that he didn't tell me about them. He continues to struggle with his drinking- sneaking around to get money and drink in secret. He thinks that since he just deleted the messages, that is enough. He has never given me the details of their long term affair. When I ask him "why"? he just says he doesn't know but that its over and he loves me and that I need to stop "hanging it over his head".

Oh, I am sorry. I am rambling without a real point or question but thank you for letting me have a place to put this out there.

IslandToby,

It is hard to believe how we live with people who are able to hide their alcoholism, even from the ones that love them for so long. With me, it was partly my own disbelief that she was an alcoholic. I did not want to accept what was going on and she did hide it so very well until it reached a tipping point at which she no longer could hold it together. While my xWW hooked up with a fellow alcoholic she met at detox, the behavior that allowed her to do so was there for a long time. The alcoholic thinking that it is not their fault or responsibility is ingrained.

It is the same as those who lack fidelity, but without the physical addiction that accompanies alcoholism. Always someone or something that made them cheat or drink.

You are correct in he doesn't like himself. He attempts to numb these feelings with the A and the drinking.

It is good that you see you need help in dealing with his alcoholism. It is a disease that affects the whole family, not just the person with the disease.

All you have control over is what you will do, not what he will do. You can't make him get better, that is his to decide to do. Take care of yourself.

((IslandToby))

I also could not see the problem drinking. It wasn't until he was moving that I found the bottles hidden everywhere. If I had not found them, I wouldn't have known it was a problem, though it's gotten so much worse in the 3 years he's gone that the smell of alcohol would have tipped me off.

I am watching his current girlfriend/fiance go through the denial that I was in right now. She can't see it even though when I told her about finding the bottles 3 years ago, she admitted then that she'd been concerned about his drinking.

I need to be in Al-Anon meetings once a week at least but find it difficult to get there because of the kids.

@betrayed1012 - you sound so together about this. How have you gotten there? I always feel like the ground is shifting under my feet. And my concern for my children is just earth shattering. I feel like I ruined their lives giving them an alcoholic father.

You're never safe from the disease no matter how long you are sober. My WH has been sober for 20 years but about 18 months ago the disease took him in a new direction. He'd stopped working his AA program and going to meetings and started watching a lot of internet porn and masturbating. That led to craigslist hookups with strangers (cross-dressers) and the shame from that led him into an A with his ex-wife (recovering heroin addict).

He's back to AA and working the program and I'm in Al-Anon. I have no idea if we can save the marriage, but I love him enough to try.

AA does work, but YOU have to do the work. And keep doing it.

MaleableReality,

You ruined their lives how??? Again, what do you have control over? Not what the alcoholic does, that's for certain. Your children may have an alcoholic dad, but you didn't give him to them. He chose to try to numb what was gnawing at him with alcohol and it took over his life. You did not do that to him or your children. And, the choice to stop using alcohol and to fix what is broken inside him is his to make. You can't make that for him. Until you detach from him and his problem, his alcoholism, you will always feel as though the ground is shifting under you. Doesn't mean you don't care about him, only that you've realized you can't control or fix him.

CheaterMagnet is right in you will never be safe from their alcoholism. It is a progressive disease that has no cure. From what I've seen it can be managed, if the person realizes that they have no control over their drinking and does the work to change the behavior that led to the drinking to numb their pain in the first place. Accepting responsibility and changing behavior seems to be the how the alcoholic can keep from relapsing, which can come 1, 4, or even 20 years after stopping as CheaterMagnet indicated.

That's what scares me about my xWW. I don't see the change in behavior. I see the alcoholic who still blames others for their problems rather than looking in the mirror for the real source. Sure she's not drinking for now, but how long will she stay dry? I don't feel she is sober as that would denote a changed behavior. That's why I am in court over changing visitation, because I know if she doesn't change, it is when she relapses, not if. And, my children don't need to be near her when her world collapses again. Her alcoholism has done enough to them so far.

As far as having it together, it is easier to sound that way than to do it. I've been almost 2 years in IC with a counselor who specializes in addictions so they can help me understand and comprehend alcoholism. Two years of trying to convince me the blame that my alcoholic pushed out on me is not mine. Two years trying to convince me that it is not my fault and I had no control over her alcoholism. I've been to Al-Anon for the support of others who live the the mayhem that living with and loving an alcoholic can bring. And, I still struggle with what could I have done different. It is hard to break the codependancy that is so easily developed when involved with an alcoholic. The feeling you have to save them, when in reality that is theirs, not yours to do. I come here to read about how alcoholism and infidelity has affected those on this forum and how they have handled it. I've gotten great support here and hopefully given some.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 12:56 AM, November 4th (Friday)]

Thank you, Betrayed and Malleable.

You are both saying things that I've felt, too.

I hate that my kids have had to deal with having an alcoholic dad. My 19 yo daughter really suffered during her senior year of HS as all of his problems came boiling out. The 3 oldest kids knew he had a drinking problem and had realized it years before. The youngest was shocked when we told her he was an alcoholic. She had never really seen him drink as he was always hiding it. She just thought he was really moody. We had to tell her that he was drinking about 2 cases of beer DAILY, every day, starting on his way to work at 6am, drinking all day on the job, he is self employed in construction, and sneaking in a few more out in the garage at night when he "went out to smoke".

I'm in Al-anon, although I confess that I've not been to a meeting in months. I wrote out my 4th step stuff but still have not read it out to my sponsor... I'm really avoiding it, I guess.

Last night (Thurs) was horrible. Even though I had confronted him, on Wed, about his text messages from her and how he had promised to be honest and tell me when she tried contact, yet hadn't told me. Even though I had confronted him and told him that I knew how he was getting his money for beer (I'll tell you below) and still drinking. He promised to be honest, yet again, from here on out. But, it was another empty damn promise.

How he is getting money for the beer just shows the level of his addiction and sickness. Since he has no access to checks or debit cards and I hide my wallet, he has been purchasing copper pipes on his Lowe's card and then driving to the metal recycle yard and turning them in for cash. At a HUGE LOSS, of course. He buys about $60 of copper and turns it in for about $17, enough for a 12 pack of beer.

So, yesterday I was gone all day and when I got home I could smell the alcohol on him. I checked in his truck and found the receipt from the recycle yard. I asked him if he had gone to the recycle yard, just to give him a chance to be honest, and he said NO! He was acting all offended that I would even ask him that after he had promised the day before to stop. When I told him I knew that he had gone, he just shut down.

He started talking about how he doesn't deserve to live, and hinting that he would try to harm himself again. Its all a ploy to deflect the blame and the shame that he feels. He is never going to recover unless he finds his honesty. All I can think is that he had a pretty awful childhood and that is the pain that he is trying to numb with the drinking and the affair. Getting honest would mean dealing with that trauma and he is just too scared to do that. It breaks my heart because he really is such a good man. A good man with such a horrible disease...

I don't even know what to do now. In Al-Anon, the saying is "I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it" and I am reminding myself of that. Also just trying to take things one hour at a time right now.

Thanks for the support.

I just need to vent...My payment from my xwh for Oct. hasn't arrived. We are NC and he has supposedly been dry for the last 2 years. Anyway, when I got to mailbox I got very stressed. Tried calling his bank to see if they could tell me the check mailed and they can't. I am trying to remember everything I have learned from Alanon, books, here, etc. I am probably going to a meeting tomorrow but somehow I don't feel like I belong anymore since it's been 4 years since my S from xwh! I never thought I would still be feeling the effects. Thanks for letting me vent. I know everything will be fine but it's like a mini relapse for me, if you know what I mean. I am trying not to think the worst like he's relapsed or his OW has influenced him to violate our court order. BTW, I found out he's living with her by accident when my L sent me some paperwork that xwh was dragging his feet on. Feels good to vent here. Thanks for listening

(((Why??)))

Sorry. It sometimes doesn't take much to remind of the things we hoped to leave behind us. It's hard knowing that it is a constant possiblity, as CheaterMagneet pointed out. Let your L deal with it, if it is indeed a problem.

Take care of yourself and vent away here all you need to.

Edited:

Oops, technically there is no venting in this forum. So I guess just express your concerns and people will offer support based on what they've been through...

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 3:33 PM, November 5th (Saturday)]

Thanks Betrayed... that was the slap I needed. I know in my mind that I didn't do this to my kids. My heart just hurts for them and every new thing that comes out of my daughter when she's talking about daddy's drinking just makes it worse. Course, what I should be focusing on there is that she IS talking, she feels comfortable telling me and her counselor about things, and when she does this I can hug her and tell her it's not her fault and that her daddy really really loves her.

I went to my second Al-Anon meeting last night. It was a step meeting - fifth step. I am so new I don't even understand what that is, but I hear people talking about how they'd gone through this step and the changes it made in them. I hear them saying when the "have program" they react differently to things and they are able to see more clearly, their own and others' behavior, and recognize their own faults. I told the I want this program they speak of. LOL. I long for the day that an email from him about some paperwork he needs won't steal my serenity.

Thanks betrayed1012.

The check arrived today dated Nov. 2nd which leaves me wondering why since it was supposed to be for Oct. Now, I have to make sure the Nov. pymt. arrives and they aren't trying to trick me out of a month. There is an option for electronic payment that I am thinking of so I don't have to wait for a check. Have IC next week so I will talk to her. Too tired after running around all day to make it to the meeting.

Hope you and everyone else is hanging in there.

Island Toby-

So sorry for all that you are going through.

My husband was a lifetime functional alcoholic. I knew he had a drinking problem but didn't know how bad it was until after d-day.

For my husband to agree to go to AA for the 90 meetings in 90 days and to continue going 5 days per week for over 3 yrs... I realized how difficult it was for him to stop drinking and how much he needed all of that support.

We are almost 5 yrs post d-day now and he continues to go to AA one or two days per week.

He also went to IC for about 1 and 1/2 yrs post d-day.

And we went to MC for 6 months.

Me finding out about the LTA was my husband's bottom.

I think he had been lying to himself for so long about what a great guy he was that when the reality of the situation was revealed to everyone (and I mean everyone because I totally lost it and told everyone about the affair) he finally was forced to take a long hard look at himself and his toxic thinking and behavior.

I kicked him out of the house and filed for divorce.

We were separated for 6 months before I let him move back home.

The main reason that I agreed to reconcile was his sobriety and participation in AA.

He has promised me that he will continue to go to AA forever as part of his amends to me.

The MOW was an alcoholic co-worker/drinking buddy.

Some books that helped me understand things better were:

Marriage On the Rocks by Woititz ( I found out in that book what I wish I had known 30 years ago.... that alcoholics almost always end up having affairs with another alcoholic)

and two books by Craig Naaken-

Reclaim Your Family From Addiction and The Addictive Personality