SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

One more thing. Do not let up until she agrees to end the A. Do not take ANYTHING less! She has to do it herself. Do not ask her to do it. If she does tell you shes ending it, don't stop the 180 because she'll go right back to her bad behavior. END THE A! And end it by her writing an NC letter in front of you and you watching her send it. That's the ONLY resolution you will accept.

Thanks Panic!!

Another question. If I am not supposed to demand NC, how will she know to do the NC letter, etc? If the 180 is working, and she asks to discuss the M, our future, etc. do I then mention NC as the way out? At some point it would seem I have to make clear that NC is the way out, correct? Do I tell her my condition for discussing the M and A is NC? Or just let her keep trying things until she reaches NC?

The only thing I have said up to this point (since starting 180) is that "I will not discuss our marriage and R until there is only 2 of us in our marriage". Have I done enough by saying this?

Have I done enough by saying this?

The key is to make her come to you. If she asks you something like "how can I get you and our marriage back, what would it take?" Then I would tell her, I've told you already "I will not discuss our marriage and R until there is only 2 of us in our marriage. End the A!" Make it short & sweet, but make it firm and walk out of the room like you could care less what she says. Trust me, if shes scared of losing you and the M, she'll find you and if she does, THAT'S when it's OK to start talking about an NC letter. No texts, no emails, make her sit down and write it out longhand. Sit and watch her but say nothing until she's done.

BTW, don't expect this for awhile. She's still gonna play you to see just how serious and committed you are to the NEW you. She's hoping you cave and give up. Right now she doesn't think you have what it takes to follow through so she'll test you to see how far she can go. Don't fall prey to her bullshit again. Hang tough and keep doing the 180.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 8:04 AM, April 7th (Saturday)]

Thanks man. Great advice. This Easter weekend is gonna be brutal with family dinners, etc. Gonna stay tough though, I have to now. These poor kids though, they need so much more attention than I can give them alone, but she has abandoned them emotionally. I've been up with them for 3 hours already and she is just now getting out of bed and showering. I'm giving them all I've got, but they are still acting up trying to get her to pay attention to them, and all she does is yell at them for acting up. Sigh.

Thanks again, gonna need support. Now I just have to make sure I cover my tracks re: this site. Any tips besides clearing browser history?

This Easter weekend is gonna be brutal with family dinners, etc.

Yeah the holidays are always tough. I had to do it through Thanksgiving and xmas. It was rough as hell but I did with the help of the good people here and another forum I was on at the time. You can do it too! Just breathe man. In through the nose and count to five, out through the month and count to five again. Keep it up for a bout 5-10 minutes. You'll be amazed what you can endure if your heart really wants it.

Now I just have to make sure I cover my tracks re: this site. Any tips besides clearing browser history?

Funny, I just went through this with WW. I was hinky too about her seeing my posts here. I got so f*ucked up that I made the mods jump through hoops for me for two days. Really kinda embarrassing now actually LOL. Finally, I just said F*ck it! Let her read the stuff. Maybe she'll see the pain I'm going through and the replies from other BS's and Ws's. I even encouraged her to join.

Anyway I digress. I know you're in a different sitch right now. Just make sure to clear your history and close down as an extra messure. If you're using Firefox, there's a great add-on called AskForSanitize. It will prompt you to clear everything before you shutdown so you never forget.

Hey, hate to do this, but I gotta try and get some sleep. I've been up all night again and we have to go to my grandsons 8th b-day party today. Keep posting and asking questions. They'll be others on here to help you out. See ya later maybe.

HANG TOUGH BRO - YOU CAN DO THIS!

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 8:32 AM, April 7th (Saturday)]

Thanks Panic!! Huge Help!!

Another question related to the 180. What about sex? Today the 180 seems to making my wife attracted to me (or it could just be a game she is playing) either way, I have the feeling she may come on to me tonight to see if I'll go for it. Any suggestions how to turn her down?

She will use sex to manipulate you into doing what she wants. Your WW has some deep seeded issues here. Bad enough she is having sexual contact with another. And in my book any form of sexual activity is a PA not an EA. But with her cousin EWWWWWW. That being said In my opinion you need to lay down the law. Tell her straight out that you are willing to attempt to fix the M. But she needs to make a decision. Her M or her cousin. Period end of story. There is no negotiations or deal making. Make it perfectly clear that if she does not stop contact with him you will file for a D. Also tell her you will inform everyone of the reason why you filed. She is fence sitting and you need to knock her off. Be prepared to back up your demands. If she makes any further contact show her the door and dont look back. So the decision is hers and she must stick with it. Better or worse. If she chooses him dont hold anything back. Expose this what it is. An A that involves incest with her cousin. I hope you realize that before you even think about R she needs some serious therapy. But lay down the gauntlet and see what she does. If she picks him remember the gloves come off. Good luck pal.

Thanks Stronger - I am definitely aware that she will need some serious therapy. It is obvious that she has some deep issues, I agree 100%. She has had some issues for years with her mom, her past, etc. She needs to face those as well. I really want to see her get help.

To be honest, even if she turns 180 and becomes remorseful, NC, etc. I am not certain we will get through this to R, but I am willing to give it a chance for the sake of the kids, etc. Regardless, IF she turns, there will be no R without some serious therapy.

The thing I am keeping in mind is that she will always be the mother of my kids, and likely have a role in their lives, so I really want her to snap out of this and face her issues even if we D. The kids need that. I fear kicking her out right now if she doesn't go NC might make her mental situation worse. I am committed to the 180, and hoping she will turn and I can get her in front of a therapist, if not for our M, at least for her and our kids.

She did something strange last night, she pulled out all of her professional credentials and certificates, and looked to be spending a lot of time online researching something.

Dare I say she was researching the certifications requirements for her type of job in HIS state? That is the only reasonable reason I can think of that she would pull out credentials that she hasn't looked at in 7 years. Would she really be that delusional that she is giving thought to the idea of relocating to his city and finding a job there, etc?

There would be no reason for her to switch jobs if we D (we are both local, could still be by the kids, etc.) Am I being paranoid, or could she really be considering leaving her family and everything to be with him?

What about sex? Today the 180 seems to making my wife attracted to me (or it could just be a game she is playing) either way, I have the feeling she may come on to me tonight to see if I'll go for it. Any suggestions how to turn her down?

I would suggest the same response as Panic suggested if she asks you how to work on your M. Until there are only 2 people in your M sex is not an option. Now, if you want to be snarky tell her she needs a clean STD test, too. You should not be expected to put your health (and the health of any future partners if your M ends) at risk. You may have overheard comments that suggest they didn't have full intercourse but any exchange of bodily fluids puts you at risk.

Have you exposed to friends and family yet?

No, I have not exposed yet. I told my best friend (also a coworker of mine) that my wife had an A, but I did not say it was with her cousin.

I really want to tell some close friends of ours, like her best friend that she hasn't talked to in 6 months, but I am not sure about saying it is her cousin. I am considering telling friends she had an A, just leaving out the who part. I am not sure what to do about that at this point.

The only people that know the whole truth right now are me, her, him, and my counselor.

[This message edited by traildad at 1:27 PM, April 11th (Wednesday)]

how do I handle her talking to him, right out in the open, while laying next to me in bed

((hugs)) traildad. Because ^^^this^^^ is some SERIOUSLY ICE COLD behavior on her part. Wow.

Your WW is so far 'gone' at this point that I agree with Stronger's stance. Tell her that you are willing to work on the M but ALL of her nonsense has to stop immediately. Period.

I'm not sure what your state divorce laws are, but where I live there is a mandatory 120 day 'cooling-off' period between the filing of the papers and the final decree. Even if both parties want the divorce and have an agreement as far as marital assets when they file. Still have to wait 120 days. And during that time you can do all kinds of things--put the D on hold, suspend it or dismiss it completely. My point is that even if you actually file, it is typically reversible if you change your mind.

But you MIGHT need to actually file to show her that you are serious and for your own sanity and feelings of self-worth.

When I found out that my WH was texting one of his OW from our house I flat-out told him that he would not disrespect me or his kids by contacting her while he continued to live in the home with us. He appaently thought I was kidding and continued. Told him to leave and he wouldn't. I couldn't force him to physically leave although I did consider throwing his shit out into the yard, but he was damn well NOT sleeping in my bedroom with me. And yet, he didn't see why he shouldn't continue to sleep there--until the night I wandered in and told him that he needed to relocate to a different room or a couch. He must have seen something in my eyes or heard the certain tone in my voice because he slept on the couch after that. I was fully prepared to go 'crazy, yelling bitch' on him if he refused--at that point I didn't care what the kids heard.

Would she really be that delusional

I'm guessing that ^^^this^^^is a rhetorical question?

I'm so sorry that your life is being turned upside-down and that you have to deal with this situation. But I'm glad you found SI. There are many wise and wonderful people here that can help you navigate the waters. The weekends are a bit slower than the weekdays though, just a heads up.

Yes, to clarify, when she is talking to him in bed next to me it is not about love, etc. It is just normal "what did you do today" types of things. Still COLD I know, but not openly talking about her love or anything like that.

I don't think their conversation turns to "love" or anything like that anymore because I don't believe he allows it, but she would go there if he would.

Another question related to the 180. What about sex? Today the 180 seems to making my wife attracted to me (or it could just be a game she is playing) either way, I have the feeling she may come on to me tonight to see if I'll go for it. Any suggestions how to turn her down?

trail,

I just got up and I'm going to be heading out soon but I wanted to answer this. The sex thing is normal. This is what the 180 does. It makes you look strong, and strong is attractive. Read the 180 again, it tells you this.

As for having sex, HELL NO! Not until she offers NC and even then, not until she gets tested like gerrygirl said.

Also, even though the sex thing is probably due to her looking at the NEW you, waywards are famous for using it as a tool to get what they want. Don't fall for it. Trust me, if she comes around and you decide to R, you'll get plenty of sex from something called Hysterical Bonding (HB), but we'll leave that for another day. Just stick to what you're doing by running the 180 to the letter. You're doing great man. You're coming to the stretch run. Stay strong and don't waver no matter what else comes up. YOU CAN DO THIS MY MAN!!!

Talk to you later after I get home.

In a way, as a single guy with poor social skills, I think he might think they are just friends who "screwed up" and he is trying to do the right thing by not crossing that line again, but he definitely still craves her attention, and has become dependent on her emotionally. Anyway, I am just analyzing and rambling at this point.

What I am trying to say is, her steadfast defense at this point has been that this is not an A, just friends, and swears they have not crossed the line since D-Day. She might honestly have convinced herself that she is doing nothing wrong since they don't talk about love, sex, etc. She doesn't "get it" at all. I can honestly say I am pretty sure they haven't "crossed the line" since D-Day, but emotionally she is with him, not me.

One other tidbit that I forgot to mention - a month or so ago she booked a flight to visit him for a weekend this coming June!!!! I know she obviously cannot go on that trip and stay in the M, I will not allow that, but right now, all she talks about is how excited she is to go visit him. They talk about the details of her trip constantly. The telling her she cannot go on this trip will be unconditional, and be our ultimatum I believe. Sigh.

She's having an affair and blatantly rubbing it in your face.

Tell her mother. tell HIS mother. Have evidence to back it up,otherwise she will tell everyone you are jealous and crazy.

Expose,expose,expose. If she doesnt like it,then..GOOD! Do not allow her to make you feel bad. Do not tell her you're going to tell everyone either or she will head you off. It may be the only way to end her little fnatasy. You say you dont want your kids to grow up and find out. I get that. Trust me. My inlaws know,because my FWS called his mom and told her a few days after d-day. At first,I thought it was because he was sorry. But Ive come to find out that it was because he was afraid I would tell them first,so he told them a version of the truth. My FWS cheated with another man. They dont know that,of course. And I dont want my kids to ever find out either. But the difference is,my husband was immediately remorseful,went NC,and has been doing most of what he should be doing since d-day. Your wife is cold,cruel,and continuing the affair. EXPOSE HER!