SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Anyone ever read this book and made a change that worked?

Ok, so many years ago I did read this book because something was wrong w/ my M and FWH kept telling me it was me. But making those changes hardly worked to strengthen our M.

We are surrounded by women who gave that a go. It's stupid advice, like most everything she has to say. It's not presented in a way meant to demonstrate respect and support to your spouse, it's presented in a way meant to be a shiny toy for your spouse.

^^This. Because all following the 'advice' of the Dr. Laura's of the world netted me was a H who believed I was so weak and stupid that I couldn't handle a thing. And he was so entitled he thought he could juggle his W and another man's W.

Respect is important for a man, I get that, but there are plenty of ways to show respect without losing your identity as a woman.

[This message edited by Thera77 at 2:48 PM, May 11th (Friday)]

I might need to vomit here. Oh honey you're so wonderful. LOOk how big your muscles are! WOW you made the earth move for me. Here honey I spent all day in the kitchen preparing your favorite dinner. Now you just go and relax while I put on my spike heels and bustier. BLLLLLLLLLLLLECHHCHHH!

Are we women or Stepford Wives?

We are now spending $600 a month on therapy, teaching my WS how to open up and share his emotions because bottling them up "like a man" led him to develop an addiction.

Now he gratefully shares with me about his day and asks about my day...what a novel concept. He is in a much better place, and we are in a much better place.

What really needs to change are our archaic views of gender. We have more in common than we are different. Every HEALTHY human being needs respect in a relationship, not just men. Every HEALTHY human being needs love and appreciation in a relationship, not just women. To separate it by gender is just plain archaic...that's really the only word.

I agree with everyone else...

This book =

Well Ladies, I read the book. It is written much like her show, very direct. It is based on conversations with all kinds of different woman and the mistakes they make.

IMO a successful M depends on that and being the best possible person toward your spouse. A man must be the best possible man toward his woman, and a woman must be the best possible woman for her man. Obviously, the audience of this book is looking at woman faults, not men. Other books tell the men’s story. The negativity about this book has me miffed? But, to beat up on the message in this book IMO is very… unattractive.

OK.. I will point out exactly opposite of what Dr. Laura advises. If you are against this book and Dr. Laura, you will agree and are for the following:

- Try to manipulate and change your man

- Try hard to make your man like the media says.. Synthetic, perfect.

- Don’t ever bless the man you are with.

- Make sure you hang out with other women who are negative and talk down about their men

- Try hard to be self centered as much as possible.

- Make time for your friends, kids and organizations and make sure you don’t spend time with your man.

- Keep yourself busy with everything but your man

- Yes, it is much better to have a nanny care for the kids so you can further your own career.

- Believe others saying homemakers are “less of a woman”

- Allow your sex life to get boring

- My masculine man should be the nesting and nurturing type.

- Marginalize your man after the children are born.

- As a woman, I am too powerless with my man and I allow him to bring his misfit family and friends around.

- I want to divorce my man when he looks at porn but OK for me to read dirty novels.

- Nagging is good; I whine; I cry

- Don’t let your man fish, play poker, hammer and saw stuff.

- When I don’t get the right gift or card, I’m pissed because he doesn’t care about me!

- Yep, your man can’t do anything right and I let him know it!

- Complaining is the only way my man “get’s it”

- Yes, blurt out every feeling despite how anyone but me will feel about it.

- My man is always wrong, not me.

- Make a smartass remark after he finally finished something I wanted done.

- A nice man is weak

- I bring up past bad things because it makes me feel better.

- It’s good to be around other griping mothers so I can be learning the best way to grip.

- I nag, scream and cry to get what I want.

- I never get on my Man’s nerves.

- I should never look at me when things go wrong!

- I not dare respect my man’s feelings

- I should make my mom and dad more of a priority than my man.

- It is important for my man to understand me, but I shouldn’t have to understand him.

- I don’t make my man fill strong or like the protector

- Never put my man on the pedestal

- No man is needed to give me strength

- I don’t want to approve of my man so I never show hi or tell him.

- I never dare tell him he satisfies me sexually.

- Nope, I never encourage.

- My man should know how to read my mind. I give him signals!

- I always believe my man is withholding some sort of information from me

- Nope, I never let go of things

- I run away to mom’s house when things don’t go my way.

- It’s our anniversary; He should know I want the cruse to Alaska!

- Yep, my man should love my stubble hairy legs.

- Nope, I never even try to flirt with my man, he should just accept it.

- I don’t get dressed up sexy for my man… He doesn’t want that.

- I only get romanced, I never romance.

- My man should never see me naked! Oh he won’t like that.

- My man is selfish for wanting to see me naked.

- I tell my man NO to sex all the time. He should not feel rejected when I say no!

- I don’t believe that sex to a man means love… He is just using my body for release!

- I don’t believe a man has a psychological need to have sex. This is about me as a woman and my needs only. He is selfish.

- It is ok for me as woman not to please my man with sex often just because he wants to feel loved and happy.

- during sex I don’t participate but I do just lay there.

- it”s ok for me to get a pet in our home without considering my man’s approval.

.

and I could list many, many more comments. I did not read one comment from Dr. Laura that did not promote a loving, caring, intimate, and sexual type relationship attitude.

These are not a true statements about this book.

The whole premise that if you do everything right your man won't leave you or cheat on you

The premise is what woman do to be destructive in their marriage.

It is a disgusting example of pandering to the opinion of misogynists…. It is anachronistic and misogynistic.

Not true about this book at all.

Only a couple times did the book mention cheating.

Addictions, abuse and affair are behaviors.. that justify the self-preserving decision to end the relationship.

and

This was a man caller she quoted… “I have never known a happy man who initiated or was involved in an affair”

I know this about life, happiness is the consequence of personal effort.

I say every woman should want to read this book with an open mind. Do those things to fill your man’s need to the best of your ability. If your man misbehaves, there are a whole lot of good men who will want to mutually reciprocate filling your needs. It's a self help book IMO. You think you know it all.. don't read it.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:55 AM, May 15th (Tuesday)]

I read it. It's offensive. And my mind is open, but not so open that my God-given brains have fallen out of my head.

EVERY woman on this thread has been consistent in their opinion of "Dr." Laura. She's offensive to women.

And, personally, I find it offensive that a man, who has never had the experience of being on the receiving end of the demeaning advice about how to keep a man, will repeatedly explain to EVERY woman why someone like "Dr." Laura should not offend women. If we say it it is offensive to women, and we are the ones in possession of an actual vagina, it's offensive.

But, by all means, go right ahead and use the guidance of an unrepentant OW to instruct your wife on how to behave. Surely, that is much better than listening to the advice of every BW on this thread. We can't possibly know what we are talking about. Maybe because we haven't read "Dr." Laura's books properly and we didn't please our men so they had to cheat.

What do you find demeaning about trying to promote a loving, caring, intimate and sexual marriage?

Just wonder why you are offended by things like...Love your man. Love is not self-seeking..

You say she is offensive? Where?

In all respect, I don't see it.

She is just as tough on men too ya know. I heard her tell am man who wanted his wife to get breast implants. Go get a penile implant before she gets her Breast implants.. Pretty funny huh?

We have explained repeatedly why it is offensive. That you are not listening to us shows your own short comings not ours.

Dr. Laura is the antithesis of true feminism. She panders to gender stereotypes. She engages in double standards that are detrimental to healthy relationships and to basic human dignity of both men and women.

If you like her, by all means read her rubbish. Recommend the book to your wife if you feel it is a good book. But please stop being a condescending jerk to the women here who disagree with you.

I am not trying to beat you up. I just want give facts.

She is not qualified by anything

I was listening to her show again discovered another wrong comment besides your misunderstand about the premise of this book. This book is not about cheating.

Dr Laura has a degree and obtained training, and a certification in marriage and family counseling, from the University of Southern California. This is her credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Schlessinger

I get it.. I understand you don't like her directness and I agree she can make some smart ass remarks... and that offends you. Some people may be offended by such presentation. This type presentation should not limited to singled this out to women and call her a woman hater. She can be that to a man too. But, I did not see the smart ass statements in this book like on her show.

I think this book is a good example of what men want to be happy, loving, nice, intimate, and sexual.

You can accept that or not. Call it not what a new age woman should be, but every man I have ever met (and in all ages) wants those things she mentions in the book. to be treated nice, romaticly, etc...

As I read the book, my W does most all those things to meet my needs. I am not going to ask her to read a book when she is now doing practically all those things for me. If she wants to read, that's always her choice. And me? in return to my W, I have worked hard to meet all of her needs.. and guess what, I once was not.

I hope other woman will consider reading this book and hope you have not discouraged any woman for wanting to broaden a knowledge about trying to meet a man’s needs.

peace

If you are against this book and Dr. Laura, you will agree and are for the following:

c'mon man. Nobody said "If you like Dr. Laura you're a racist misogynist" for a good reason.

Even that aside, she bases her entire idea of a relationship for men around food and fucking. Not respect. She instructs women to show respect in order to get what they want, let men think they're in charge and to be good little submissives like god intended.

I need a woman who takes life from that view like I need a second set of balls on my forehead so I can get the worst possible headache conceivable every time I read something stupid on fark or reddit. If it was all about food and fucking I could live like a king for a week in tiajuana on 30 bucks and a case of bottled water.

Her degree is in Physiology, not Psychology. She was granted a license as a therapist, but from sources I read, she does not have any official training/degree is psych, counseling, etc

WIKI is not a reliable source.

StillGoing

Yes, I view that book about a woman being attractive to a man. Just like you want your man to be honest, caring, romantic (the sex part), masculine, responsible, reliable, and forgiving, griller (the food part) … Yes, I want a woman who wants to give me a blessing of a good meal and sex.

Lucky2HaveMe

She holds a post-doctoral certificate in Marriage, Family and Child Counseling (MFCC) from the University of Southern California. And she got a license to practice which has guidelines so just any person cannot get that. She owned a private marriage and family counselor practice for 12 years. She is more than qualified to write a book about marriage or a woman. Why would she lie about this? It would be found to be fraud.

She has some values that people don't like..

- do not living together before marriage.

- Abortion is killing a baby.

- Don't play a victim when you are a victim.

- She understands sex to a man is a need, like needing food.

- do not let other raise your children

- Public schools are not the best for a child; Home school them

just to name a few..

As for this book, I think it's a good book that points out everything a man needs and it’s up to a woman to decide if she wants to fill those needs or not.

Calle Zorro wrote a book for men guiding a man to know what a woman needs. It was very good too. He talks alot about sex but it really is about everything a woman needs.

anyway.. It has been a good discussing with all you fine women.

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:52 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

- She understands sex to a man is a need, like needing food.

Then why aren't fBHs (like ones on this board) who aren't having sex dead yet?

Yes, I view that book about a woman being attractive to a man. Just like you want your man to be honest, caring, romantic (the sex part), masculine, responsible, reliable, and forgiving, griller (the food part) … Yes, I want a woman who wants to give me a blessing of a good meal and sex.

What does this have to do with what I said other than totally ignoring it to push your take on it? She bases everything about men on food and fucking. He's sad? Give him a beej and a sammich. He's tired? Give him a handy and a sammich. Want to talk to him? Fuck you, call a girlfriend, it doesn't have to do with food or fucking.

Yeah I want my wife to fuck me and cook well, too. Not the point. There's more to people than fucking and food. It's great you take away a message of respect and courtesy between spouses but that's not what anyone is contending. They're contending the rest of her narrow-minded throwback bullshit the common sense statements like that are couched in, like "If you're a woman and have a job, you suck."

As for the comments about what you want out of a guy... what?

eta:

As for postdoctoral certificate, it means nothing more than after her doctorate in an entirely different field, she got a certificate in marriage and family counseling from USC. Her PhD is in physiology, as was said. Per your own link: "Her doctoral thesis was on insulin's effects on laboratory rats."

[This message edited by StillGoing at 2:03 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

This is a flat out lie? From her own web site?

http://drlaura.com/g/About-Dr.-Laura/273.html

The book is about the needs of a man. Attraction is about a man wanting a woman. Be attractive.

Attraction is about a woman wanting a man. Be attractive. This is wrtten in that book by Calle.

You have two people doing both guess what happens? A good marriage and a healthy marriage.

That is the message I send here Still... I give up... lol

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:13 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

- She understands sex to a man is a need, like needing food.

There would be a lot of dead men then. Just silly.

Her education is even relevant? I have met many a doctor who could't think there way out of a wet paper bag.

I don't have anything against her personally. She just seems to simplify things and then pound those themes home because she doesn't like to do any new thinking.

I also generally find it offensive that I am equated down to such primal items as food and sex. I like food and sex as much as the next person, but I don't love my kids and friends because of them. They are a small portion of what I am as a human.

Laura is like TV....bubble gum of the mind...

Wert... This need is not life or death comparison need like breathing.. but it is an important need that I don't expect most woman to understand. Men pay for sex because it is that important. Porn is #1 on the internet don't you know. Yes, it is a need.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:29 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

This is a flat out lie? From her own web site?

http://drlaura.com/g/About-Dr.-Laura/273.html

First, if she's saying she has a doctorate in psychology then yes, she's lying.

Second, **redacted~

Third, Maslow's Hierarchy does not present sex as a metabolic survival need and is clear about that if you actually reference it instead of throw up the basic pyramidal structure, just as clothing and shelter, while necessary for "survival" aren't considered metabolic physiological. "Sexual" need is about competitive drive per Darwin, both concepts of which are significantly deeper than penising an eager vagina.

eta:

Edited to reflect the updated post to which I was replying.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 2:33 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

"Penising an eager vagina"

[This message edited by Lucky2HaveMe at 2:48 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

Maslow was a clever guy but doesn't put tea in everyone's cup if you know what I mean. Not to mention his theory was much more in depth and complicated than the chart indicates. Moreover, did you ever consider the entire hierarchy? If one achieves self actualization the primal stuff while critical and important drive behavior less because the person is more enlighten. So yes, porn may be number one on the internet but all that suggests is there are a lot of primal non-thinking people out there. Of whom I am not one.

A need no. I drive yes. But guess what, I can control both and don't bounce up and down and say 'whatever you want honey' just because my W (or any women for that matter) tosses there tush in the air.

I think my real problem with Laura is that she is not very bright. I see basic theme's in all her talks and concepts and very little application to those theme's in actual context of real complicated people.

You know what turned me onto my W? I walked in to her place of work, I was her new boss and 7 years her senior. I could tell from the first minute I met her she was not taking any of my guf. She knew what she was doing and needed me to prove to her that I knew what I was doing. It is call demanding respect. That is why the infidelity hurt so much. She lost her dignity when she did that. She loss my respect. Laura doesn't talk about that stuff now does she.

Ok - I really tried but I can't keep quiet on this one. Trynhard - you have been here much longer, but I'm pretty sure this is still an online support group for surviving infidelity.

Probably one of the most consistent and powerful things you will see here is that if your spouse chooses to cheat, it's not your fault. It's their shit. No matter if I cooked a gourmet meal for them first while wearing my sexy undies - doesn't matter. Their choice. Something is broken in them. I can't help but be more than slightly offended at your insinuation that if any of us here had put out more, or in a better way, or a nastier way, or cooked better or did anything better, then he wouldn't have cheated. Big piles of BS.

As a matter of fact, my STBXSO has blabbed all over the place recently that I was the best sex he ever had, blah blah blah. Didn't seem to stop him from penising eager (and equally broken) vaginas all over the City. Plus, I just happen to be a kick-ass cook, so what gives? Last I checked, he wasn't having affairs in order to taste their pot roast.

I would even gather to say by the quality of folks here (as much as can be sniffed by non-IRL interaction), they are probably pretty damn desirable all the way around. Know why? They are here and not hiding from their pain. Wow - what a concept - dealing with your issues. Maybe some of our waywards should have tried that first? The people here dare to be honest. They dare to share some of the ugliness that we wouldn't wish on anyone else. They make themselves vulnerable (ain't that somewhere in self-actualization?) And some people like me willingly line up for 2 x 4s to the head.

To even slightly hint that they might have done something the least bit "wrong" in caring for their husbands and "deserved" this is a massive insult.

Please remember where you are and that we are all trying to do our best with a huge amount of pain that was never our doing.

And as for Dr. L herself? My longtime IC has a talking Dr. Laura doll on HIS bookshelf that makes me laugh each time I see it. To say he is not a fan of her doctrine would be an understatement. Although his doctorate in psychology might not mean anything...