SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A few years ago there was huge controversy over her claimed credentials...

My IC used to refer to this kind of thing as "Thera-tainment"... their top priority is ratings... kinda like people who take Rush Lumbaugh as a serious journalist

Dr. Whora is as intelligent as a toad is beautiful.

Chili… I think most folks here totally misunderstand my intent and position.

My position and intent is to see out the most healthy type relationship possible. I am way past the hurt stages and can easily control my emotions about what has happened to me. I have completely forgiven my W 100%. So today, I am no longer ever again going to accept from myself, or my wife, any behaviors detrimental toward our M.

Anyone can dislike the way Dr. Laura presents here materials, but her values and teachings do make for a happy, loving, intimate, nice, safe, and sexual marriage. Anyone that doesn’t want that is nuts.

I think it is natural for a BS to get defensive about your role played in the relationship. I like what many people say on this site. “I take 50% responsibility for the problems in my M, My adulterer spouse takes 100% for his choice to be that person” This is a truism. If you don’t believe that, I think your R will not work and you continue to live in misery.

I am far from one sided….

I will share a story about me. My wife started starving me during her A. She fed me just enough to keep me from not going ape shit. But my hunger existed and my fantasies slowly grew and grew. My porn viewing grew and grew. Right before the discovery of my W’s A, as I think about back then in clear mind, I was flirting with other woman, I visited hook up sites just to see, I came close to paying for it…. It was only a matter of time before I cheated. I wanted to fill my hunger. That was me but only one thing missing in my M.

And me? I was never the romantic. I was never one to compliment, to praise, to appreciate, to value with words in different ways to my W… A woman needs this every day. They need to be told they are beautiful despite what Hollywood wants them to be. A woman needs time, words to stimulate, touch, excitement for her mind to “soak in” for her to desire to have sex. I was the roll over grab a tit looking for quickie. A woman needs a man who will be a masculine, by being a man comfortable in his faith, his ability to be of stature and leadership in some way, someone who grooms well, does different things, will just talk with her every day, Does not control, good and responsible to children, Does his chores, allow her good woman friends, will stand up when boundaries are crossed…. And so much more…

Oh well.. you folks have a great day!

Credentials… I accept them and facts because nobody has disproven them. She is a marriage expert. She had a practice and studied it. I think mostly the abortion folks want to discredit her so they beat her up.

I think it is natural for a BS to get defensive about your role played in the relationship. I like what many people say on this site. “I take 50% responsibility for the problems in my M, My adulterer spouse takes 100% for his choice to be that person” This is a truism. If you don’t believe that, I think your R will not work and you continue to live in misery.

My R didn't work. Frankly (and this is humiliating), I was practically THROWING myself at my H toward the end of our marriage, and he refused to have sex with me.

I don't take even 50% of the responsibility for what was wrong with our marriage because my spouse never came to me and told me he was unhappy. NEVER. In fact, people were shocked when we got divorced because we seldom fought, were active with our children, went to church etc.

you continue to live in misery.

I don't live my life in misery. I got divorced. I can wake up every day and don't have someone trying to manipulate me, lie to me, tell me I'm not good enough. I would rather be alone than with some jackass. I have a remarkably full life, and everyone who knows me seems to like me.

Oh, and I wil add to the already large chorus here, I think Dr. Laura hates women. If she realistically wanted to change the world, she would encourage people to be REAL and not live a charade to make your husband like you.

This isn't 1955. Women are allowed, even encouraged, to display an opinion and intelligence. I would love to see someone write a book on how to take care of women and keep them sexually satisfied. "Here's a map. Locate the clitoris...no, it's not in the inner ear."

[This message edited by willowiris at 8:48 AM, May 19th (Saturday)]

Dr. Laura's values and what she says not only about women but other issues is disgusting. I am one of those who husband did not want to touch her because I don't like the freaky which apparently all the ow's did. There is no way to affair proof a marriage. It is a personal choice that you make no matter the circumstances. I am 100% responsible for my issues and the mess I brought to our marriage. But I could have stood on my head butt naked with a sign on vagina to enter at will and he still would have cheated, that is the kind of standard he practiced...entitlement.

Just for the record - you claim that people who don't like Dr. Laura don't like her because they just disagree with the things she "stands" for.

Here's your list:

She has some values that people don't like..

- do not living together before marriage.

I don't really care about this one. Live together, don't live together ... whatever. I have no deep seeded feelings about this.

- Abortion is killing a baby.

I am pro-life. In fact, I am so pro-life that I believe in the right to life for EVERY sentient being from birth until natural death. So that puts a little dent in your half-baked theory don't you think?

- Don't play a victim when you are a victim.

I don't see anyone here saying that playing the victim card is okay. In fact, I will say that this community (SI) is the least victim-friendly place I've ever been.

- She understands sex to a man is a need, like needing food.

Sex is a biological imperative for both sexes.

- do not let other raise your children

I was a stay-at-home-mom until my ex-husband took a mistress, flaked out and abandoned our family.

- Public schools are not the best for a child; Home school them

I homeschooled my daughter from kindergarten through the 8th grade. I put her in public school when my aforementioned ex flaked out and walked out on his family.

I hold many of ideals on that list as important.

And still I think she is a duplicitous, unqualified, hack who misrepresents herself and her qualifications.

Imagine that.

Oh an your continued insistence that everyone in this thread is wrong, except you, serves only to make me think even more strongly that her book is poison and should be avoided by any man or woman with half a brain and any sense of respect for human dignity.

StillGoing

Yes, I view that book about a woman being attractive to a man. Just like you want your man to be honest, caring, romantic (the sex part), masculine, responsible, reliable, and forgiving, griller (the food part) … Yes, I want a woman who wants to give me a blessing of a good meal and sex.

Couple of points. #1 - I was unaware that StillGoing was gay and that he wants his man to do anything. LOL

#2 - On the "griller" thing ... Newsflash Caveman ... I can grill my own damn food thank you very much.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 10:50 AM, May 19th (Saturday)]

I will share a story about me. My wife started starving me during her A. She fed me just enough to keep me from not going ape shit. But my hunger existed and my fantasies slowly grew and grew. My porn viewing grew and grew. Right before the discovery of my W’s A, as I think about back then in clear mind, I was flirting with other woman, I visited hook up sites just to see, I came close to paying for it…. It was only a matter of time before I cheated. I wanted to fill my hunger. That was me but only one thing missing in my M.

I was in the exact same position and all I did was be sad about it.

That was all you. Not your wife. Either one of us could have walked a year into no sex - though as you said, in your case you got just enough. I got none. I lost interest after awhile, entirely.

You chose to handle that situation in that manner. Your wife not filling your "need" is not somehow inextricably linked in some form of responsibility to your browsing hookup sites and flirting while you're still married, it's your chosen response to a shitty situation - which is the EXACT route every single wayward spouse takes to their destination.

It's good that you backed off before you hit that, but Dr. Laura's justifications still don't make your pondering fuck buddies anyones responsibility but your own, no matter how you want to define "need."

As for me being gay, I only like my own penis, I much prefer to penis my wife at every available opportunity. Besides, my fashion sense beyond "It goes with jeans" runs into the negatives somewhere and is a possible explanation for how straight men end up wearing leather pants. "What do you mean brown doesn't go with tan?"

eta:

As for her stances on things:

"do not living together before marriage."

She got involved with a married man who had 3 children "after he was separated from his wife" or some bullshit that would be torn apart if a wayward posted that crap here. She lived with him without marrying him for 7 years or so. For much of that time he actually was divorced, so there is zero reason for her not to have been married. Tell me how a woman who does this is somehow qualified to judge the lifestyle of others who do the same thing without answering to that herself?

Public schools are not the best for a child; Home school them

I would love to speak to this but it falls into the purview of religious discussion, so I will leave it with the statement: this is absolutely incorrect taken at face value and it merits a like response: Dr. Laura is ugly and stupid.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 11:35 AM, May 19th (Saturday)]

As for me being gay, I only like my own penis, I much prefer to penis my wife at every available opportunity. Besides, my fashion sense beyond "It goes with jeans" runs into the negatives somewhere and is a possible explanation for how straight men end up wearing leather pants. "What do you mean brown doesn't go with tan?"

Still, I kinda figured as much. I hope I didn't offend, I just thought it was funny that because you disagree with Dr. Laura, Tryn assumed you were a woman. Apparently all men should just adore every word that "Dr." Laura utters. LOL

And me? I was never the romantic. I was never one to compliment, to praise, to appreciate, to value with words in different ways to my W… A woman needs this every day. They need to be told they are beautiful despite what Hollywood wants them to be. A woman needs time, words to stimulate, touch, excitement for her mind to “soak in” for her to desire to have sex. I was the roll over grab a tit looking for quickie. A woman needs a man who will be a masculine, by being a man comfortable in his faith, his ability to be of stature and leadership in some way, someone who grooms well, does different things, will just talk with her every day, Does not control, good and responsible to children, Does his chores, allow her good woman friends, will stand up when boundaries are crossed…. And so much more…

I'm glad a man just told me what I want/need

Wow. You really know what a woman wants/needs. Not! Or at least not this woman. Let's tackle this list shall we. Just for fun?

They need to be told they are beautiful despite what Hollywood wants them to be.

Would I like this? Sure. But need it? Not really. And particularly not if the guy is just saying it because he thinks he should in order to get laid.

A woman needs time, words to stimulate, touch, excitement for her mind to “soak in” for her to desire to have sex. I was the roll over grab a tit looking for quickie.

I like a slow built up to sex. Sometimes. Other times I just like a quick, hot, dirty roll in the sheets (or wherever). I think the idea that all women need a ton of flowery words, romance and shit load of time is rubbish. Not all women are built the same. That's the problem with one-size fits all approaches.

A woman needs a man who will be a masculine, by being a man comfortable in his faith,

I've never thought that a man's masculinity was tied to his faith. But then again I'm an agnostic who doesn't really think religion is the be all and end all of a person's worth.

his ability to be of stature and leadership in some way,

What about my ability to be a person of stature and my ability to lead ... oh right I'm only allowed to lead the way to the dining room table and the bed to feed my man.

someone who grooms well,

Doesn't everyone want someone who grooms well, male or female?

does different things,

Different things? What the hell does that even mean?

will just talk with her every day,

Doesn't everyone want or need communication in a relationship? Again this is common sense shit that applies unilaterally.

Does not control,

Again with the common to both sexes thing.

good and responsible to children,

More common to both stuff that doesn't count.

Does his chores,

Does his chores? Chores? Good gravy am I to be his wife or his mommy? Do I need a chore chart? Does he get extra sexual favours for earning enough gold stars?

allow her good woman friends,

Allow her good woman friends? Allow? Did you really say that a husband should "allow" his wife to have friends? Allow? Oh hell to the no! I don't have daddy issues. I don't need a a husband who will act like my father.

will stand up when boundaries are crossed…. And so much more…

Again more common to everyone stuff.

Dear god if this is what men think I want ... I think I'll pass on the whole men thing. Makes me glad I'm bisexual. I can always date women.

I think it is natural for a BS to get defensive about your role played in the relationship. I like what many people say on this site. “I take 50% responsibility for the problems in my M, My adulterer spouse takes 100% for his choice to be that person” This is a truism. If you don’t believe that, I think your R will not work and you continue to live in misery.

And that's where you are flatly wrong. I do not take 50% responsibility for the problems in M before the A and my FWH does not expect me to. He is an alcoholic and addict (in recovery after D-day). MOST of M problems were a result of his addictions, which I am not responsible for in any way.

And guess what? We are R'd and very happy. Our M is healed. It's better than it ever was.

And I don't cook for him while clothed in Saran Wrap holding a martini. I don't tell him how he's a big strong man and I couldn't live without him because I can't take care of myself. I don't "submit." I don't make sure he comes home to clean house everyday (I work too- equally hard as him and we share household responsibilites).

I don't do a damn thing that makes him feel like he's the king of the castle. Because he's not. He's my partner and we rule here jointly.

And we both like it that way. If he didn't, he's welcome to pack a bag. I don't need a man who is so insecure that he only feels okay in our M if he's being treated like someone superior to me by virtue of having been born with a penis.

Oh, and everything SG said.

I'm not bisexual. And I am a Christian. I am not in the least bothered by people who live life differently than me, but I am guessing you are and likely need to know my "creds." So there they are.

I am no more looking for FWH to be the "leader" in our family than I am looking for a third eye on my butt. I don't need or desire to be "led." I can find my own way, thank you. What I want is a partner- someone who will share his perspective and work with me to make decisions together.

And "chores" are what DS does. FWH does housework, just like me. We both live here and we are both wage earners. We are partners. We share in the upkeep and maintainence of our family. Equally.

The rest of the stuff you listed is either so general or vague that it is virtually useless.

Except this one:

allow her good woman friends

I can assure you that if FWH "allowed" me anything, he'd find himself sleeping in the car- permanently. I am not a child and NO ONE controls what I'm "allowed" to do. Expressing concerns or dislikes are one thing, but making a declaration about not being "allowed" is a dealbreaker. I respect my husband enough to work through his concerns. Like two reasonable adults would.

And with that, I'm done with this thread. It has consistently gone downhill and become more and more offensive to me.

I was never the romantic.

Me neither.

I was never one to compliment, to praise, to appreciate, to value with words in different ways to my W… A woman needs this every day.

That's news to me. I didn't think that and I still don't. I just wanted a guy who'd be honest and who had the maturity of an adult not a teenage boy.

I also didn't care if I got married or not. I didn't want a fairy-tale romance or wedding with people staring at me on my 'special day'. And --gasp-- I never wanted kids either. All the things women are suppose to want.

I better hand back my honorary vagina.

Dr. Laura is not for me. I find she oversimplifies things -- having men and women fit nicely into pre-packaged gender roles.

I'm into reading psychology that delves deeper into FOO, personality traits and disorders, what true intimacy is, why people may fear it and what they do when that happens.

It's that crap that is the reason I'm on this site -- not cuz my H's needs were not met. That's the top surface/simplified/blameshifting stuff we dealt with early on.

It's the other stuff that is buried deep that is the core. Wading through that muck up to your neck is where the keys to lasting changes take place IMO.

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 6:45 PM, May 19th (Saturday)]

I don't need a man who is so insecure that he only feels okay in our M if he's being treated like someone superior to me by virtue of having been born with a penis.

This was ex-asshat to a tee. And for a good part of our early married years, I listened to Dr. Laura and fell into this line of thinking right along with him. But now I'm older, wiser and divorced with children who have both been in daycare and the public school system and have had a lot of time to modulate from that person into the one I am today.

I once was happy (or thougth I was happy) being led. But now, I want someone I can walk next to, not behind. And I sure as hell don't want a relationship where I'm following him and constantly telling him how big, strong and wonderful he is in some sort of twisted game where I'm making him feel like king of the castle while I smirk silently to myself that I'm pulling the strings and making him dance to my beat by luring him with food, flattery and sex.

If I can't have a relationship based on honest communication, consideration and love on both ends, I'd rather die a spinster with 37 cats and a moth-eaten housecoat. I abhor game playing and I'll be damned if I'm going to do it to keep a man. It's disingenious at best and no basis for a relationship. It's not fair to either the man or woman... he's being manipulated and she has a sneaky agenda to get her way?

I understand each gender is wired and motivated differently, but really? No thanks.

tryn...you do realize that both StillGoing and Wert are men...right? I'm getting the impression that you think you are trying to set a bunch a women straight...different story when it's men who are arguing against your point.

As for Dr. Doofus...really hard to take the advice of a woman who doesn't even follow her own advice. Money people...that's what all this is about for her...money!

[This message edited by coastofsomewhere at 8:01 AM, May 21st (Monday)]

Ok, why do I have to read a book to find out what my FWH needs? I am more than happy to meet his needs. I want him to be happy and I love him, so if I know what he needs are, I am going to happily meet those needs, to the best of my ability. What my FWH needs to do is communicate those needs to me. Himself, personally, in words. Don't hand me a book and say "here honey, try this out" or worse yet, expect me to figure it out on my own or read your mind.

This was a major problem for my FWH. Somehow, his idea of love was that if I loved him, I would know what he needed. If he had to tell me, he felt like it didn't count. That is just baloney and he has learned better--and guess what? It has been really good for our relationship.

I say, stop reading and start talking. At least in this situation.

Dreaded double post! I dislike this woman so much I had to post it twice, lol

[This message edited by changed forever at 8:43 AM, May 21st (Monday)]

I can't say much about this book. All it merits is an enormous eye-roll.

It mostly appeals to uberconservative religious people - basically, the Christian version of the Taliban - who want to force women into being barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

I'll pass, thanks. There are few fates I can imagine that would be worse than turning into a Laurabot.

uberconservative sounds the right word. Tryn's arguments are just reinforcing that. Quite, quite uber.

t/j to Fighting:

And I don't cook for him while clothed in Saran Wrap holding a martini.

Is Baco-wrap more your thing?

I'm going to defend tryn to the extent that I think it's people's OWN BUSINESS how they conduct their M. They don't have to be compared to the Taliban. Some M do try to live by this. Some M are more egalitarian. To each his or her own.

Frankly, in my own M, (AFTER R, not a condition of it), my H asked for me to appreciate how hard he works. For example, if he goes to LA when it's a blizzard here, I tend to moan about how he gets to enjoy sunshine and the beach while I'm home with the kids. In reality, he's working 12 hour days at an oil refinery (not the loveliest of locales) and feeling quite lonely. I had a whole different version of it in my head. He didn't even ask for me to appreciate his hard work, just to stop acting like he was having fun in the sun because he WASN'T and I made him feel bad.

However, to think anything anyone does or doesn't do will prevent an A is complete and utter bullshit.

And Dr. Laura is the last person on earth I would take ANY advice from. Tryn, you say no one disputes her credentials. On her OWN SITE she says what her degree is in, and it is NOT counseling! Post-D work can be damn little-one seminar. She is NOT licensed in any state. Not that it would matter to me if she was.

She cheated on her first H with her second H-who was M to someone else.

She was pregnant when she finally M second H. She lived with him after his divorce for several years without M him. She was a working Mom.

When the naked photos showed up, she denied they were her and then sued to get them back-how can you sue if they aren't photos of YOU?

She even wrote a book about betrayal last year where I (stupidly) thought she was going to own up to her mistakes. No, the betrayal was the guy who put the pictures on the Internet, not HER betrayal of...EVERYTHING SHE PREACHES.

If she humbly said she'd learned from her mistakes, it would be different. She does not even come close to showing remorse. I understand how fellow SI members feel like anything she says AUTOMATICALLY has to be wrong, because of Dr. L herself.

I can separate the message from the messenger in her case, but I am totally sympathetic to people who can't or won't, and I certainly would not do one thing to enrich that woman.

[This message edited by latebloomer45 at 11:24 AM, May 21st (Monday)]