SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

my H asked for me to appreciate how hard he works. For example, if he goes to LA when it's a blizzard here, I tend to moan about how he gets to enjoy sunshine and the beach while I'm home with the kids. In reality, he's working 12 hour days at an oil refinery (not the loveliest of locales) and feeling quite lonely. I had a whole different version of it in my head. He didn't even ask for me to appreciate his hard work, just to stop acting like he was having fun in the sun because he WASN'T and I made him feel bad.

I can definitely see our H's point of view...but I wonder...did he show his appreciation for you taking care of the kids all by yourself during a blizzard?

“I have never known a happy man who initiated or was involved in an affair”

I am totally convinced this is true, but what does it have to do with LS's book?

LS seems to work on the level of image rather than reality. The goal is to 'make' your H feel like he's some super-being, when in reality we're all just human beings.

LS supports the clearly wrong idea that a W's behavior can make an H be happy. I'm responsible for my happiness, not my W. My W is responsible for her happiness, not me.

The really insidious aspect of LS's preaching is that she always has an out - your H cheated? That's 'cause you didn't follow her rules well enough - your fault, not hers. In fact, the problem is her rules.

I want a full partner who tells me the truth as she sees it, even when her truth isn't complimentary to me. I want her to give me her perspectives that I can add to mine so I can preceive reality better, even when she diagrees. I want her to tell me what she likes and dislikes, so I don't keep draging her things I like but she doesn't.

LS puts all of that into the fine print, if she says it at all.

trynhard, if you think her book is great, I suspect you'e being blinded by her flattery, and your sense of fairness comes into play in placing value on Calle's book. Wouldn't you prefer a W who is a real person who wants to know you as a real peron? You deserve better than a Stepford wife.

BTW, IIRC LS was born as or became an Orthodox Jew many years ago. Did she convert to Christianity? Just curious.

BTW, IIRC LS was born as or became an Orthodox Jew many years ago. Did she convert to Christianity? Just curious.

She had one Jewish parent, but did not self-identify as a Jew until she was an adult. In 2003, she renounced her practice of Judiasm publicly on her radio show.

http://forward.com/articles/7887/dr-laura-loses-her-religion/

The reason? She wasn't getting enough "love" from fellow Jews.

She explained this is the quote below about how her listeners reacted to her announcement:

“By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive,” she said. “From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that’s my point — I don’t get much back. Not much warmth coming back.”

IMO, this plays right into her general philosophy: your happiness and sense of entitlement is dependent on how well you feel others are treating you. If you are not fulfilled, someone else must be to blame.

[This message edited by Fighting2Survive at 12:02 PM, May 21st (Monday)]

I can definitely see our H's point of view...but I wonder...did he show his appreciation for you taking care of the kids all by yourself during a blizzard?

Oh yes. The blizzard was actually over, it was just cold. The kids were 19 and almost 16. He was still very concerned about us, including me walking the dog twice a day on ice-I have no bones in one ear so I have balance issues. He offered to cancel the trip.

And that was just one example. He's traveled for years and he summed it up well long ago. "For you, a new location, a hotel, and a dinner feels like a vacation. For me it feels like work and loneliness". I had a pretty selfish attitude for many years-"I'm stuck at home and he's out having fun". I have traveled with him enough now to know he really DOES work 12 hours days when he travels. He would have gladly switched and been a stay-at-home dad if I wanted. If anyone ever comments on his success, he immediately gives me much of the credit for "holding down the fort".

Not that any of what I am saying justifies Dr. L's silliness.

I have to say last night, I couldn't sleep, when I finally went to bed I whispered to FWH "You really are a great guy, you know." (Thinking about this thread and how unfair I've been sometimes.) I didn't think he heard it but this morning he told me it made his day.

A little appreciation goes a long way, man or woman!

I totally believe that no matter how good a lay I was, or if I was a Top Chef, those things wouldn't have necesarily prevented cheating. Totally his choice.

I also believe that a good bit of successful marriages depend on understanding your particular partner's needs, and trying to provide for them.

But the thing that is most icky about Dr. S to me is how she states her opinions as if they are facts. Occasionally, I agree with the Financial Peace guy, but he is demeaning of people who make mistakes (by his standards) or don't know certain things he is CERTAIN of......

Even though he has been bankrupt multiple times.

The black and white is obvious to all of us. What we sometimes need is help with the gray. At least I do.

There doesn't seem to be much gray according to Dr. S.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 12:57 PM, May 21st (Monday)]

I never thought Dr. Laura would have this kind of impact on people, but I guess given the context of this forum, it doesn't surprise me.

My heart really aches for the likes of SouthernGal and Fighting2Survive since it's very clear they worked very, very hard in their relationships but were still the victims of infidelity and cheating.

I can relate to this feeling since I've always felt the "work" in my relationship was a 90%/10% ratio with me doing the lionshare of the work, yet I was the one that was cheated on.

Anyone that has seen the results of the 180 should also know that more often than not, doing too much can be worse than not doing enough.

I feel equally violated when my WS, her mother or anyone else might even suggest I should have been doing more. I was killing myself doing MORE than anyone ever should. She ran off with someone that did *NOTHING* and treated her like garbage.

Perhaps Dr. Laura should write a new book for those that have been betrayed? "The Proper Ignoring and Starving of Cheating Bastards Until They Start Pulling their Relationship Weight." :-)

[This message edited by MediumRare at 1:50 PM, May 21st (Monday)]

It seems tryn has left the thread?

FWIW, I only know that LS is a therapist with her own show but nothing else of her background to be biased for or against her. That said, your (tryn) view point that you can fool-proof a marriage with the things you stated (can't quote from my iPad. Sorry) is very offensive to me.

My husband cheated. Because of exactly the things LS advocates and you endorse. According to my H, I was and still is the best wife a man can ask for, great mom to our children, did and still find me sexually attractive and desirable, etc etc. I can go on. He confessed all this after he finally got a few therapy sessions under his belt. He cheated because I was and is all those things, and because he felt that he did not deserve me. No, I never belittled him or disrespected him. He felt less than the ideal husband because of his professional life was going through some rough patches and he was suffering from the worse depression of his adult life. He felt he only deserved a dysfunctional relationship with someone who only abused him.

So, what do you think LS would say to me? That I still want being the perfect step ford wife? What my H cherishes is not the mindless bimbo offering flattery. He wants an equal who can think for herself and be an equal partner in the marriage. And that, I was.

As for the viewpoints being more conservative? Sure. But my parents are ultra conservative Christians. Even they would laugh at her suggestions that keeping a H well fed, sexed up, etc will prevent cheating.

I really don't care about what LS's background or her personal regilous views are. What I do find offensive is that she claims to have a BE-all, end-all solution for a successful relationship. THERE ARE NO SUCH THING. so what if she interviewd a bunch of women? That can be easily stacked to support her views. Ever done a market study? Lol, you cull your own target group.

Anyway, yours and LS's sweeping generalization on this topic made me a bit riled up AND Chuckle at the same time.

[This message edited by Fractured.Us at 2:07 PM, May 21st (Monday)]

I followed her advise: Starting cooking dinner 4 - 5 times a week, never said no to sex (not even after surgery), Constantly came up with new places & ways of having sex to keep him satisifed, stroked his ego continuously, kept the house clean, washed/ironed his clothes, planned trips for us to go on, consistently tried to get his kids to spend more time with him & blasted them if they were ever rude to him, defended him even when I knew he was wrong, laughed at all his jokes, etc.......

I and everyone that knows us thought we had the perfect marriage/relationship. We all thought he was as happy as a pig in slop but it didn't stop him from having an affair.

None of us male or female can be everything to another person. None of us can do everything to the point of preventing them from making bad decisions or choices that will have devastating negative consequences for us all.

People cheat for many different reasons, and I don't believe that any one person is the know-it-all of why!!

My husband had zero of these excuses. ZERO. I love to cook, I am good at it. I love to grill, bake, come up with my own recipes, etc. And I would love to share the kitchen with him. For me, it is therapeutic just as it is for an artist to paint. He is the only one in this marriage who has denied sex to the other, and it isn't because I felt pressure or wanted to please him! The ONLY thing I have denied him sexually is the involvement of another person (he wanted me to try girls). I do not share and I will not be shared, thank you very much. As far as chores, I wasn't a nag. I wanted them done before he got home so that we could have "quality" time together. I home schooled our children for 8 years, I have a degree in nursing and filled in the income with part time contracting jobs in the trauma and ICU units, usually at night. I am not stupid, and although I would change some things about myself, I am not unattractive. As a matter of fact, he and I were training to run a half marathon at the time of his PA, and I was in the best shape of my life. He was deployed and I sent him pictures, packages, constant emails and attention, and as we are both medical and involved in similar career choices, I always have offered my ear and understanding at the end of his day.

So, I am highly offended that everything I did was affair proof, and yet he still went to other women to fill in the blanks. His affair was his choice. His problem. HIS mistake. I made mistakes, plenty! And I will continue to work on making them right. But, his affair wasn't my fault. Nothing deserved what I got handed and what I've been through. NOTHING.

“I have never known a happy man who initiated or was involved in an affair”

But the assumption that a man's unhappiness is his wife's responsibility is faulty.

Fractured.Us... I am still here...

This book is about the Law of Reciprocity in a M.

She never says this Law applies to every man. It's pretty clear she knows humans are flawed.

I know this... My values say I will only be married to a woman who treats me.. Well.. like the book… Kind, open, intimate, loving, romantic, fairly, and sexual.

And guess what? If I get what I need, I treat my woman with what she needs. That’s me.

Why do I hear Tammy Wynette singing in my head when I read this thread?

Some one posted a while ago -- I wish I could remember who it was -- there is a difference between an unhappy man and an unhappily married man.

Affairs happen for a lot of reasons. The WS is unhappy and blame the closest person to them -- the spouse -- rather than looking in the mirror.

I heard Mr.DD's AP blame me for his affair. I neglected him. Dr. Laura would assume that too by the sounds of things.

Funny thing is his AP didn't neglect him. She would have been the eager 50's housewife that I didn't want to be. He dumped her any way. He was still unhappy. He was common denominator -- he was the problem. Not his needs not getting met.

That’s me.

EXACTLY!!

But it's not me. And does not apply, even a little, to my marriage.

That's the point. Just because you have these views does not make them "truisms."

It makes them what works for you.

I hope they work for your wife, too. That she's not just caving because she feels she must, as a WW. Did you change the "rules" after D-day? How does she feel about her role in your marriage? Is she a Dr. Laura fan---or would she say that your Dr. Laura approach contributes to the problems in your marriage?

there is a difference between an unhappy man and an unhappily married man.

Yup. Unfortunately, the unhappy man is quite apt to mistakenly blame his unhappiness on his marriage.

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:37 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

Couples can keep their marriage sound, loving, vibrant and fulfilling by openly and honestly communicating with each other and taking concrete actions that support each other, themselves and the marriage.

One member of the husband/wife team can't do that work on his or her own. Your actions alone can't "protect" a marriage. No way, no how.

Any book (didn't read it) that suggests you can affair proof your marriage without participation of a spouse in finding joint solutions to very real every bumps and bruises in a relationship is crap.

Two people can keep a marriage sound. One person alone can't.

I know this... My values say I will only be married to a woman who treats me.. Well.. like the book… Kind, open, intimate, loving, romantic, fairly, and sexual.

And guess what? If I get what I need, I treat my woman with what she needs. That’s me. [/quoute]

Well yippee skippy for you.

The thing that annoys me about this thread is you started acting like you hadn't read the boo and new nothing about it and asked us if we had read it and if we had tried it did it work. Then you got several negative responses and instead of asking questions or saying, "I am not sure I agree with your assessments, but thanks for answering," you decided to tell us all that we are wrong.

That's just rude.

And further you insinuated that the only reason a woman would feel that good ol' Laura wasn't a feminist or friendly toward her own sex is because she is pro-life.

You throw up straw man arguments and veiled insults. That is also rude.

You have assumed that everyone who has disagreed with you is a woman - therefor to disagree is to simply not want to do the work to apply Laura's brilliant strategies to our lives - and yet some of the posters to whom you've replied in such a manner are men. You didn't even take the time to see who you were talking to. You simply made grand, sweeping assumptions.

I am so glad the Laura's misogynist clap-trap, reduction of men to one dimensional creatures at the lowest common denominator, and overly simplified pseudo-psychology work for you. But what I really hope is that is actually works for your wife and is t just something she is doing from some misguided sense of guilt.

Best of luck to you. With Laura as your life coach you're gonna need it.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 8:15 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

Author's Note:

3 A's: Addictions, abuse and Affairs are behaviors, in my opinion that breaks the covenant and justify the Self-preserving decision to end the relationship. Where the behavior of one or both of the spouse in blatantly destructive, dangerous, or evil, this book does not apply”

Which as has been pointed out, Tryn, is at odds with things she has said in the media about infidelity and the "role" of the betrayed spouse.

This goes to her credibility. That she would write that ridiculous disclaimer and then go on national TV and say that Elliot Spitzer's wife was at least partially to blame for her husband's actions ... She has no integrity and no credibility.

You asked a question and now you're upset because the little ladies here at SI didnt give you the Stepford Wife answers you were looking for.

Get over it.

Ah, so many responses on a Book Forum thread it got moved to General. I think some authors and speakers strategically use obnoxious provocative concepts and wording to trigger people and rile them up. Negative attention is better than no attention. If trying got something out of this book that improved his M, well good for him. As far as I'm concerned this is all in the eyeroll camp together with Rush and that stringy blond Ann something woman.

You asked a question and now you're upset because the little ladies here at SI didnt give you the Stepford Wife answers you were looking for.

A few of the men piped up also! I find her book at least equally insulting to men as to women. Her assumption that all that drives me is food and sex is both insulting and wrong.

Fractured.Us... I am still here...

This book is about the Law of Reciprocity in a M.

She never says this Law applies to every man. It's pretty clear she knows humans are flawed.

I know this... My values say I will only be married to a woman who treats me.. Well.. like the book… Kind, open, intimate, loving, romantic, fairly, and sexual.

And guess what? If I get what I need, I treat my woman with what she needs. That’s me.

Here is where this whole discussion is WILDLY off the mark. There have been THOUSANDS of men treated kindly, lovingly,intimately, lovingly, fairly, romantically and been treated to great sex and STILL CHEATED.

The thought that couples should seek to treat each other well is an absolutely sound principle. The thought that it will affair proof your marriage is nonsense. Incredibly loving spouses suffer infidelity all the time. Some of them on this board. It is insulting to them to promote an ideology that says they could or should have done more and maybe they would not have suffered.