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Your WW having an affair is not about your penis size. No more than a WH having an affair is about the OW's breast size. People don't go and have an affair because they want a bigger penis, bigger boobs, a different woo-ha. That's not ever the REAL issue. It's because they have something broken in them. This is about her issues, insecurities, need for something, and as long as your intimacy was still okay, it isn't really about something physical. As a woman, I can promise you this. Don't waste your time worrying this is about your penis.

Jesu – yep on the “inadequate” thoughts and obsession. Penis size is just one “topic” I obsessed over (and some I still do – I am a work in progress). Like Bigger said, this comes up often on SI. You are not alone, and I’d venture to say it is rare for a man not have these issues, whether it is size or ability or other self-doubt issues. And from the responses on your thread you can see it’s gender neutral. Women have the same issues – is it my breasts, something wrong with what I do, does the AP have a magical vjay. The list is endless on the self doubt that can be created.

IMHO the second most important thing to remember about this shit – it is not about you. There is nothing “better” about the AP. It is in between your spouse’s ears that’s the issue, not anything inside you, not anything you did or anything you are or are not. It’s about fucked up people. The most important thing – you will be OK.

I read threads like this and it gets me so mad over what my ex did and just the overall damage that affairs do to the betrayed spouse.

Comparing ourselves to the AP is a natural reaction. And it is a suck ass feeling to go through for both men and women.

Janagreen, I like what you had to say. No matter how many times we hear it, men just natural assume that penis size is important and I think that just comes out of our culture. I think women experience the same things with breast size or weight. Oh, he must have wanted her because she had a bigger chest or wore a smaller dress size than me. We as a BS can't help but compare ourselves, especially as it relates to things in the bedroom. Did she do things I wouldn't do? Was he able to give you more orgasms. Etc. Plus, some waywards may say that these are the reasons why they cheated. The betrayed spouse is left to make sense of why their spouse wandered. I still can't wrap my head around the whys. I never got answers so my brain tries to fill in the gaps.

No matter why they cheated, it is still wrong and there is no justification for it. Even if our spouse says it was about penis or breast size, that is such a shallow thing to base a relationship on. Let along a relationship that causes so much destruction.

I remember going through the whole list of comparisons and in the end I realised that all he could offer that I could not was that he was taller and made more money. He could never

provide her with his full attention. He could never gain her full trust.

Let's say for the sake of argument that penis size doesn't matter in the decision to have an affair. So that is a given. The WW did not choose her AP because of the size of his junk, it was because of the total package: the validation, his looks, his charm, his boyish good looks, the way he always knew the right thing to say, and the fact that he wasn't hung like a hamster is a bonus. But from my experience growing up, in locker rooms, in the service, playing sport, where guys happen to congregate and get naked in front of each for socially acceptable reasons, penis size does become a topic of conversation, and if you are not at the top of the scale, the comments can be quite hard to come to terms with. Average doesn't cut it, so for those 67% of guys who fall into the middle of the bell shaped curve, and 100% of those on the lower end, you've spent your life hearing comments like "who you going to please with that" (my answer has always been me), how do you keep your woman happy, wait till she gets a real dick, etc. And those are the tame ones. Penis size has always been a measuring stick (no pun intended) of being a man - doesn't matter if it's true or not. It just is. I think the one time that a man (unless he really is gifted in that department) is happy about himself down there is when he has been in a long term monogamous relationship. All those locker room taunts don't matter anymore, because you finally feel like it doesn't matter. You've got a loving, beautiful woman who chose you, so penis size doesn't matter anymore. End of story. You don't even think about it anymore. See where I'm going with this? Then that woman cheats on you, betrays you, and oh, by the way, it was with a man with a bigger dick than you. Or in WW code "about the same size" as you.

Jesu said what was bothering him is this: his WW said "you are both about the same size". To me, that is WW speak for "my AP was bigger and I know it will hurt you if I tell you the truth, so I'll minimize by generalizing". That shit hurts. I know - it's what my WW told me. Those words sound like a lie, and to me, it's because they were. I saw their Skype chats about penis size (this was before they were physical) and my WW gave him her "standards", no less than this, no more than that. At least I don't fall below the bottom of her scale, but I'm not in the "that's not a problem" category that her AP fell into, more like the "just tall enough to ride" category according to her scale. I've heard all the justfications and reasoning about penis size not mattering, "it's not the size of the wand, it's the magic that's in it" shit. But I've also heard women say you can't churn butter with a toothpick. So obviously size does matter to some women. And when that woman who made you feel safe about your size cheats on you with someone who is better endowed, it doesn't matter if that was the reason. What has happened is there is now a dynamic in the relationship that the guy who was cheated on CAN'T FIX, even if he shouldn't have to. Call it emasculating, humilitating, down right mean, or any other phrase, it boils down to it really hurts. And no matter how many times people tell you that size doesn't matter, it matters now. It's like saying money doesn't buy happiness. We all know it does (who doesn't want more money?). As one comedian once remarked, no it doesn't, but it buys jet skis, and it's hard not to be happy when your riding a jet ski.

I know I've generalized a bit, but the fact for me is I've taken a shot to the gut on this one. Will I ever know that it wasn't about penis size? Nope. Now, if my WW had said to me "Look Tred, AP was hung like a gherkin, than that would have eliminated penis size as a possible why - guy must have had one hell of a sense of humor. But when you get the "you are both about the same size", then to me his penis size was part of the package that attracted the WW to the AP (especially when they have that information up front prior to their first physical encounter). So in my point of view, penis size doesn't matter, until your WW betrays you with a man "about the same size as you"...then it's really hard not to feel inadequate, no matter what the real reason for the betrayal was.

[This message edited by Tred at 11:58 AM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

Money doesn't buy happiness. TRUST ME.

Anyone else think about the OM penis size...and feel that maybe you are "inadequate?"

Daily. But, unlike what you have stated, I am a little less than average, not a little more. Add to that I found out she bragged to her friends about one particular OM that could "ring the doorbell from across the street". She held him and his member in very high regard. She also admitted that bigger was better for her.

With that said, I am sure size matters to some. But I also believe that if 80% of the men are average, then 80% of the women will like it just fine. My fWW is my only, so I don't have the comparisons like you, but would definitely use that as your own proof of being adequate.

I have had a recent brush with death, and it is obvious that I will take my opinion to my grave. But, I am me, and I have to be ok with myself. You have to be ok with yourself too. If you are a little bigger than average, that means you are bigger than 60-70% of all the guys on earth. It could be worse. You could be smaller than 80% of all the guys on earth and still be glad to get out of your deathbed when you have the chance.

Take care. I hope you find a way to be at peace with yourself.

Tred, holy crap that was well put! That is healing library worthy.

When my H and I were S'd, I saw a guy for 3 months. He was not as large as my H and he also had major ED issues...to the point we never "finished" actual intercourse with the desired outcome.

BUT...

The reason I was head over heels with him was because of how he made me feel about myself. Sexy, desirable, hot, etc. We worked around the smaller, not-working-up-to-par penis.

So I'm telling you firsthand, (no pun intended) that size and sometimes even if it works or not, is not what attracts you to someone...it is how they make you feel about yourself.

If it helps, I dated a guy once who had a huge member, like he should have been a porn star. I know guys think bigger is better, but it's not. It hurt. So much so I didn't want to be intimate with him. He never got a BJ from me because it was too big, and intercourse started to happen once, but hurt too much to continue. I will take average any day of the week over that. Any.day.of.the.week. I would prefer hamster size to that. When you remember the guys in the locker room who were hung like horses, think of that.

Whether it's an affair or a legitimate relationship, I can guarantee that at least for most women it has a lot more to do with what's happening between the ears than between the legs. If a guy can stimulate my mind, it really doesn't matter much if he's not great between the sheets. If he can fill the holes in our hearts/souls/minds, the holes in our bodies are a distant second if they are considered at all. Of course that's what we're going to tell our friends about, because no one wants to admit that there are holes anywhere else to be filled, but it's almost never really about sex for the sake of sex for women. It's about validation, even if your giving your wife your approval/praise/compliments, at a certain point it's almost like your mom telling you your pretty. Of course she does, she's your mom and she's supposed to. Sometimes, even those of us who never cross the line, like to hear it from an unbiased source. Someone who doesn't have to tell us we look nice to keep the peace at home. We like to hear that we are still attractive in general, not just to you. For those that go wayward, I can only assume that there is a lack of boundaries that leads them to let go beyond walking away from the come on with a new spring in their step. I know when a man hits on me, I am pleased to hear it, I just don't let it continue.

The bottom line is that it's not really about YOU. It's the wayward, it's what's broken or missing in them, and your penis size or what you do with it doesn't begin to enter into the equation. Stop worrying about your package. It was enough to get her in the first place, it was enough that at some point in time she had stars in her eyes and made the decision to spend her life with it. What she has done since then doesn't change that it's unlikely that she married you with the intent of ever cheating. At one time, she fully intended for you to be the last man she would ever have sex with. New is inherently more exciting because it is new. Forbidden has its own level of excitement, and because so much of what turns on people in general and women in particular is what's happening in our heads rather than what's happening to our bodies, that combination will make it seem better, when in fact it's just different. And dirty. And she will or already did wake up one day and feel dirty and cheap. I promise.

Given our male culture, I can understand how this can feel devastating. Even tho I'm not male.

As women, there are similar issues - not the same- but similar. With similar dead-ends in terms of what they do to your thinking.

This is like the debate on whether it's

better to have the OW younger and cuter or an old hag. Both suck. If she is "better" you feel inadequate. If she's "worse", you feel REALLY inadequate to lose out to a loser! Inimagine the sentiments are the same when it comes to comparing male packages.

So sorry you are going through this.

[This message edited by trebleclef at 12:38 PM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

Wouldn’t it be nice if size really were the issue? Then we’d have an explanation.

I think what happens is this – the WW thinks that men like to be complimented on their size – so she plays the game of saying “wow, you’re so big and it feels so great” when in reality – she doesn’t really care about his size at all – she’s just saying what he wants to hear- and in return he tells her she’s beautiful, smart or xyz – whatever it is she wants to hear – and so the game goes.

I know that men are visual and I think sometimes men believe that we woman are turned on by looking at their naked pictures or their size – I guess I’m only speaking for myself – but looking at a naked man doesn’t do much for me – he has to touch my mind first. I think that’s why magazines which feature nude men never do as well as say, Playboy or Penthouse.

But really – its not about the size of the penis AT ALL.

I can guarantee that at least for most women it has a lot more to do with what's happening between the ears than between the legs. If a guy can stimulate my mind, it really doesn't matter much if he's not great between the sheets.

I get that and that almost makes me wish penis size were the issue. Why? Because if it isn't then that means who I am as a person, as a man, was not enough. That it wasn't something superficial like penis size, but something much deeper. And that hurts. That makes you feel ugly and unwanted to the core of your being. That is a sucker punch that is even harder to roll with in the long run than whether OM's package is bigger.

I know that men are visual and I think sometimes men believe that we woman are turned on by looking at their naked pictures or their size – I guess I’m only speaking for myself – but looking at a naked man doesn’t do much for me – he has to touch my mind first. I think that’s why magazines which feature nude men never do as well as say, Playboy or Penthouse.

This x1000. Pictures of a penis do nothing for me, any penis. I'm more likely to laugh at it regardless of size, because why would he think I want a picture of his junk? This is why women read romance novels and shiz like 50 shades of grey. We are turned on by the mental aspect, not the visual. Romance novels are the female equivalent of porn, the only difference is no one says anything if we carry them around in public.

The penis thing comes up so much I'm surprised the thread isn't sticky by now.

Yeah, OM has a penis like a limp billyclub. Good for him I guess, he's got nothing else going on in his life.

eta:

There is an absolutely awesome version of 50 shades of grey read by Stephen Hawking. Who better to mentally stimulate than one of the most brilliant minds our species has produced? The part where his robotic voice monotonously describes a couple of steel balls in her ass is like an Anna Karenina adaptation by Frank Miller.

/hides the mind bleach

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:48 PM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

Peppersmith nailed it, IMO.

T/j, tred, do guys really belittle each others penis's in the locker room? That sounds horrible!

I get that and that almost makes me wish penis size were the issue. Why? Because if it isn't then that means who I am as a person, as a man, was not enough. That it wasn't something superficial like penis size, but something much deeper. And that hurts. That makes you feel ugly and unwanted to the core of your being. That is a sucker punch that is even harder to roll with in the long run than whether OM's package is bigger.

But it isn't about you. It's not what you were doing or not doing. It's that after a while the same kinds of compliments from the same man lose their zing. It's that when you've been together for a long time it may be comfortable, but it is rarely as exciting as something new. I personally prefer comfortable to exciting, but there comes a point where there isn't much to talk about because you have already talked about everything. You never see a romance novel that goes much beyond the beginning of a relationship. They follow the start, they sometimes follow through to the wedding, maybe a little into the newlywed period, and then it's the same "and they lived happily ever after".

That's because happily ever after is comparatively boring. That doesn't make happily ever after bad and it doesn't excuse wayward behavior in any way. But it isn't you.

This seems to be something men obsess over. I don't get it. Women don't obsess about their lady parts to that extent.

Size doesn't really matter. Really, it doesn't. Ex-hubby was larger than average but really damn boring in bed. WBF is average size but tons of fun.

It's not all about the man, either. Women can learn to use their PC muscles to make ANY SIZED man feel great.

Takes two.

In the context of an A, I think as a BS, we tend to find ANYTHING to obsess over, just to try to find some meaning as to WHY the WS did such a cruel thing. Was the AP better looking? Was the AP more interesting? Was the AP blah, blah, blah, on and on. None of those things was the defining quality that led our partners astray. It was simply that the AP had ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO integrity.

Big penis + no morals, or a tiny pecker + a good heart?

Hmmm . . . which do I want?

The penis thing comes up so much I'm surprised the thread isn't sticky by now.

Am I the only one with a dirty mind? Did I take that the wrong way, or did you mean it that way stillgoing?

I didn't until you pointed it out PPG, but now I can't stop giggling

No no no...I don't think it has anything to do with it. I understand your doubts, I guess its no different than a woman wondering if the ow was tighter. KWIM?? Oh what this A. Shit does to us.