SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Foundoutlater nailed it.

It is in between your spouse's ears--that's the issue. Not anything inside you, not anything you did, or anything you are or are not. It's about fucked up people.

BINGO!!

WHG

[This message edited by WarehouseGuy at 8:45 PM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

Thank for all the replies everyone! Some really insightful and interesting responses.

I doubt that WSO hooked up with OM specifically for his penis size, as she had only met him that night when they first had sex, so she would not have known what she was getting until they got back to his place and she unwrapped the package. What gets me is that she kept going back for more though...so maybe it was his penis size that was keeping her satisfied and yearning for more?

I read in one of her messages to him where she said "I loved having your cock inside of me, you fuck me so good". She then told him that she was going to masturbate whilst thinking about his penis and him fucking her. She also admitted to me that she said to him "I love sucking your cock" as she was giving him oral sex. So she obviously was attracted to and liked his penis on some level.

Since DD she has told me that his penis was quite ugly, and that it was crooked, with a weird bend in it when it was erect. For some reason this makes me think, maybe because it was crooked it touched her in places where mine doesn't/can't?

She says she prefers my penis, that it is more than adequate, and is a really good looking one too. She says that she has always been satisfied with my penis, and that I have always been a good lover in bed. Yet she didn't have sex with me for years? She went and jumped in bed with a stranger after only knowing him a few hours, and fucked him for 3 days straight? Then came home and kept denying me for years and lying to me? He lived overseas, but she kept contacting him over the years wanting to hook up with him again? Of course I'm going to think it was the sex, because she wasn't having sex with me, preferred to masturbate to pornography behind my back, and longed to hook up with OM again to have sex.

The strange thing is that she swears they only did missionary, and with her on top. No adventurous sexual positions, not even doggie style? She also says that each sex session went for 20 mins at most. Nothing really wild about it at all...apart from the naughty/danger aspect of cheating of course

Another thing that bugs me is that, from the beginning of our relationship, she had never been able to cum with anyone else. She could make herself cum, but could not cum from oral and vaginal sex. She had a BF that she was engaged to for years and was never able to cum with him. She said it was kind of a mental problem because of some sexual trauma that occured to her when she was younger. I was very understanding and patient of course. Any girlfriends or sex partners that I have had have always been able to cum with me, so it was a strange thing to deal with at the time. After a year or so of experimentation I was finally able to make her cum orally. Then a couple of years later I was able to make her cum during intercourse. Making her cum orally became a regular occurrence, but during intercourse it was only ever a few times. When she was with OM she said she only ever came once...during intercourse. Before him I was the only man that had ever made her cum, and that took years of practice and patience. Then after a couple of times a stranger could make her cum by fucking her? Since DD, and the sex resulting from HB, she has climaxed again and again with me from intercourse. Did OM teach her something that she is now using on me? I've asked her and she has said no way, that OM was definitely nothing special in bed...and that she just feels really close to me now and that the sex feels so good that she has been able to let herself go like never before which has resulted in better control of her orgasm.

Do you guys see why I am having problems dealing with all this?

[This message edited by Jesu at 8:58 PM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

Hugs to you. I hope you find peace that you are satisfied with yourself and not let this get to your head (sorry) to much :)

Everyone is right- they are broken- it's the love and connection that really matter.. Just wanted you to know I understand your pain... Sucks..

[This message edited by nothings special at 3:53 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]

This usca hard thing to dwell on. You are a guy & it is totally understandable... Women do the same thing... Is she prettier, sexier, dress better...ect... & many times the answer is no. It's hard to say don't worry about it... Bc I always think about the things that women think about. I could say I hope your thoughts about it get less..and don't best yourself up over the size.. You are packing wayyyy more of a bond, love & history with your WS.

I know that men are visual and I think sometimes men believe that we woman are turned on by looking at their naked pictures or their size – I guess I’m only speaking for myself – but looking at a naked man doesn’t do much for me – he has to touch my mind first

^^^Same for me. Like Michael Bolton's song, "Can I Touch You....There?" I guess those photos indicate to me that they only have one thing in mind and they reduce you to their level, but I have other things on my mind.

On the other side of the thread or t/j: We were each other's first (or so he said, and MY only) now that I know xpos was doing things much longer than I originally was told by him (tt for as long as he was talking to me about it and learned more from others after), I look back and see things that happened in a new light. He asked me things, made remarks about me and my body that seemed innocent enough at the time, especially when he made it seem he really did not know, and now it seems he WAS doing comparisons. Also tried to get me to do things with him that he knew I did not want to, tried to push for it as if he were entitled. Now I think he was getting those things from the sluts he was seeing and no longer wanted the boring ("normal") sex he was having with me. But, believe me, it was far from "boring", just not the stuff he was now used to while living out his pornographic fantasies with his internet porn dates. I can accept it on those terms, because I know I would not have gone along with it. It was a "comparison" I can live with and be glad to be away from. And VERY lucky to have tested clean so far!

While on the surface the affair appears to be all about stroking the WS's genetalia, at the core it is in truth, all about them stroking each others egos.

This is great...

I know that men are visual and I think sometimes men believe that we woman are turned on by looking at their naked pictures or their size – I guess I’m only speaking for myself – but looking at a naked man doesn’t do much for me – he has to touch my mind first

Totally agree, and 99% of the woman I talk to have admitted the same thing.

I find my husband walking around in a pair of jeans with no shirt or socks the sexiest thing in the world to me. My husband naked is nice, but looking at his penis is not physically appealing other than an erect penis is "proof" that he finds me sexy. The validation that he wants me turns me on, not the sight of his penis.

Woman learned long ago that the male's ego is concerned about penis size, so many of us go out of our way to praise the man and stroke his "ego" by complimenting his penis. Do we really find the penis "beautiful", um not really. We just want our men to feel good about themselves, so we tell them what they want to hear. While there is an exception to every rule, but I have not met her yet. :)

I was lucky that the cOW in my case is SO ugly, SO fat, SO disgusting that I have not had to deal with the issues you are dealing with now. Why was she so appealing to my husband? Because she texted things to him things like "she just knew his cock was so big and wonderful" before she had ever touched or looked at his cock. Why? To boost his ego. To hook him. Outside validation. She didn't have a clue. He does NOT have a giant cock. He is right in the middle of average. But guess what....his average is absolutely perfect (and even a little big) for me. His average would be painful if he was even a half inch bigger than what he is. Her text messages to him were just a bunch of BS that she fed him to mess with his head and hold him mentally captive.

Your wifes messsages were the same. Don't take them as reality. They were living in fantasy land, and she was going to tell him whatever it was he wanted to hear.....and what man does not want to hear that his cock is the largest she has ever had and does amazing wonderful things to her? Um, every man I have ever met. Does not mean it is reality, she was just telling him what he wanted to hear. She was stroking his ego. That's how AP suck each other in. They validate each others "feelings", and it has NOTHING to do with reality.

Why was your wife able to fully enjoy sex with her AP? probably because you took years of gentle care with her. You took the time to teach her how to enjoy her body again. Or, the emotional excitement of illicit sex was enough to do the trick....not the actual techniques used by the OM. For woman sex really is mostly in our heads.

Commenting as a WS - to my shame I once emailed to OM "you are hung like a horse." BS found this comment and it troubles him to this day. The kicker of it is that OM was NOT really big. He was totally average. I said it to be sexy I guess. OM was also unskilled. My BS is an excellent lover. I have told him this, but unfortunately, who believes a liar - even when they are telling the truth.

What gets me is that she kept going back for more though...so maybe it was his penis size that was keeping her satisfied and yearning for more?

She kept going back for more because she was still in affair-land in her head. I can't tell you how many times I've read on SI, and heard in real life, that affair sex can be anywhere from bad to mediocre to "meh" and they will STILL go back because it is their MIND that is in the affair. They have built up a fantasy that they are playing out, whether the reality matches it or not. People can physically get off on text-only skype sessions without ever seeing the person. It's in their own head. It's masturbation.

So yeah of course your WW could shrug off the ugly crooked penis - temporarily - because it wasn't like he was a boyfriend she was evaluating: he was a television green screen she was projecting something onto. Her past sexual abuse, insecurities, poor boundaries, whatever it was in her. Your standards are different when you're choosing a life partner versus choosing to self-destruct with another person's body. You can't measure the two with the same ruler.

I read in one of her messages to him where she said "I loved having your cock inside of me, you fuck me so good". She then told him that she was going to masturbate whilst thinking about his penis and him fucking her. She also admitted to me that she said to him "I love sucking your cock" as she was giving him oral sex. So she obviously was attracted to and liked his penis on some level.

I'm not sure how to write this without casting the same net over legitimate loving relationships as well, but... yea of course people talk dirty during sex and it's not necessarily sentiments from the heart. She was telling him what he wanted to hear to get a response out of him. She didn't masturbate while imagining his penis - please. That's more of a male fantasy of what a woman might get turned on by.

I don't think it's a coincidence, by the way, that she liked pornography and had an A with someone who was largely overseas that she couldn't access every day. It's fantasy. It's getting off on her own imagination. It's wanting to imagine herself "longing" for someone, rather than actually being attracted to a physical human being.

JMO, but I think somewhere in there is a good place for IC to examine with her. Living in various fantasy worlds and shutting out the good reality right next to her. You mentioned there was sexual trauma in her past. This would probably be a good place for her to put some work into herself...

Another thing that bugs me is that, from the beginning of our relationship, she had never been able to cum with anyone else. She could make herself cum, but could not cum from oral and vaginal sex. She had a BF that she was engaged to for years and was never able to cum with him. She said it was kind of a mental problem because of some sexual trauma that occured to her when she was younger. I was very understanding and patient of course. Any girlfriends or sex partners that I have had have always been able to cum with me, so it was a strange thing to deal with at the time. After a year or so of experimentation I was finally able to make her cum orally. Then a couple of years later I was able to make her cum during intercourse. Making her cum orally became a regular occurrence, but during intercourse it was only ever a few times. When she was with OM she said she only ever came once...during intercourse. Before him I was the only man that had ever made her cum, and that took years of practice and patience. Then after a couple of times a stranger could make her cum by fucking her? Since DD, and the sex resulting from HB, she has climaxed again and again with me from intercourse. Did OM teach her something that she is now using on me? I've asked her and she has said no way, that OM was definitely nothing special in bed...and that she just feels really close to me now and that the sex feels so good that she has been able to let herself go like never before which has resulted in better control of her orgasm.

Don't overthink that, man. She's 28 years old. You just described a very typical profile of a woman reaching maturity. It's not OM and there was nothing he could teach her about her body that would allow her to orgasm. Women's bodies often have to mature before they can reach orgasm during intercourse. First achievement is usually through masturbation, then through someone else touching you, then through oral and as you mature both physically and mentally, if you're lucky, through intercourse. It took her body years to mature to the point of reaching that state, and you helped her attain that within your marriage. It wasn't about you becoming good enough; it was about your relationship allowing her the trust to develop in that way herself.

After all, you have the same "goods" you had back when she was masturbating to porn rather than nurturing intimacy in her marriage, but her reaction during sex with you is now totally different as you say. Your penis hasn't changed, your skill hasn't changed - what has changed is in her head.

"you are both about the same size". To me, that is WW speak for "my AP was bigger and I know it will hurt you if I tell you the truth, so I'll minimize by generalizing".

Or it could be WW speak for "his stuff is nothing to brag about, but maybe if I say it is I can hurt you AND make myself look good for actually having an actual reason for this betrayal."

As a woman, I think about this. I am almost 60 and fair skinned; long hair. I am overweight - no, fat. Due to all the stress of the infidelity and many other family issues and tragedies over the past few years, I look horrible. Sunken eyes, etc, and I hardly ever smile any more.

My husband's prostitute was dark skinned, short hair, short person, small perky breasts, much younger than me, etc. She was unlike me in every way possible. (I know this due to a picture I found of her from the encounter. (Sorry, no details about tight anything, or acrobatic abilities. I'm told it was only oral.)

Anyway, I can't compete with that. And I'm not going to. Sometimes I think I will NEVER lose my extra weight because if that is what would keep my husband around, then he should go and find something younger, tighter, etc.

But you know what??? There WAS a time, when we first met, when I wasn't at all bad to look at. I look the way I do now because I gave up caring about myself because he seemed to give up caring about me. And what a crock that is, right?

I have often thought that I would lose the weight, get in shape, etc. But the truth is that I can't erase the years, and if I could, I wouldn't want the sorry SOB that would want me again if I did.

Sorry...I seem to have t/j AND am rambling. But for the record, ALL of you men who talk about loyality and fidelity - you are much more appealing and even "sexy" to me than whatever your stuff looks like.

(And, of course, I mean "appealing and sexy" in a totally NON INAPPROPRIAE or personal way. I'm just saying that is what does it for so many of us.)

I'm so sorry that so many of US let THEM make us feel inferior about ourselves.

OMG circe, thank you SO much for that awesome post! You hit the nail right on the head for me in so many ways. Talk about making my day...

Today more than ever everywhere we go, magazines, commercials, etc. that a good sex life you need to have a good 'package' or you need to 'perform'.Its all about the 'O'. And yet more than ever people in general seem to be less satisfied with this area of their lives.

wow I have four sons, and I have a pretty close relationship with them. We have discussed these issues as I dont want them going out in the world with those lies dominating their choices in life.

Sex is not a performance. Sex is not intimacy.

The performance comes first,like when the peacock shows off his fanciest feathers.

Intimacy is what you do before you have sex,and sex is an expression of intimacy and it is a conversation.

I believe that the pressure to perform should be replaced with a desire to show your love and the ability to recieve your spouses expressions of love.

Sex should not be outcome based and it is certainly emotionally much better that way.

Its not about the Orgasm,anybody can do that, one doesnt even need another person to achieve it.That makes sex way to mechanical.

I see how you are concerned about your anatomy, we all have these insecurties. I have mne as well, but everytime those voices get the better of me I tell them hell no! Thats all lies.

Have faith in yourself. Have faith in the fact that you got what it takes! She better love it or leave it.

Just my take on it...

I see how you are concerned about your anatomy

I'm not really though, only when I think about the 'unknown' regarding the OM. I've honestly never even been particularly concerned about penis size at all up until DD. I've always been more than happy with what I had, and my abilities...and others seemed to quite enjoy it as well.

It's just hard not to think about it...the 'what if' he was bigger and more satisfying/appealing for WSO, you know?

I know it's not really something I could ever have confirmed for me, as I doubt OM would want to send me naked pics of himself or whatever, but then again I can't exactly control the mind games that play in my head as a result of the A either. I suppose the curiosity of it all is something that I'm just going to have to get over.

I will say that my confidence levels and self esteem have taken a hit though. It's a shame because if you talked to anyone that knows me IRL I'm sure they would all describe me as an assertive, confident, bold, sociable individual.

I still am that way in normal every day life, but in private the A dwells in my mind and reveals the hurt and weaknesses that have developed as a result...

I know, I really do get what you are saying.

Your authenticity and sincerity is appealing. I cant imagine why your WSO wouldnt find that way more attractive then the false shit that she was getting from AP.

I have stayed in shape,you wouldnt know I just had my 11th child if you just met me,I try to stay excited about things going on in life, I am a fun person,I put others first in life, I love to laugh and have agood time and yet... he still had to look elsewhere. I dont get it.

I have more of an issue with OW thinking she has/had something on me right now than anything else. And what hurts is that even if WS didnt say it with words, i know he has always loved me in his messed up way, but still he told her with his actions that i didnt measure up.

Thats hard to take everyday. I dont think I willever get over that.

yep i get it.But still I hope you remember that whatever size he was, he was a big loser for doing what he did. he is a creep. Creepy is totally unattractive and you are not a creep.

easier said than believed I know!!

I am so sorry your wso put you through this.

[This message edited by difrentgalnow at 12:24 AM, August 31st (Friday)]

Ok, last night WSO told me that OMs penis was about 1 inch bigger and pretty much the same thickness as mine.

I asked, and she was brutally honest this time around.

I feel like shit!

As a BH, I am not traumatized by Penis size. I believe that I am smaller, and that it would not matter at all to my WW. She is mostly non sexual, and therefore would not care about penis size at all.

If my wife was a sexual person and I was inferior to OM, it probably would be a big deal for me too.

Why feel like shit over that revelation? Here is the honest to God truth, from someone who thinks that size does matter at least a tny bit....length ain't where it's at, girth is. Long hurts. It hits our cervix. The magic spot is only a couple of inches in and the longer it is, the further the head is from that, to be blunt. And certainly girth is not a one size fits all either. We're made different sizes down there too. Circe's post was spot on in so many ways. Read it again and stop feeling like crap.

When I thought that OW had a worse body than mine, I thought, "Great, she has a better personality, and he likes her better." Then I he told me she has better boobs, and I thought, "Great, he liked her boobs more than mine."

What they like is not the penis or the boobs or even the personality, really. It's the how the OP makes them feel. They like the flattery. Personally, I am not jealous of the ability to flatter someone, especially when most of the flattery is delusional BS.

Stop feeling like crap.

Easier said than done...

Ok, last night WSO told me that OMs penis was about 1 inch bigger and pretty much the same thickness as mine.

About an inch...

Really?

She's that good at estimating measurements whilst about to get naked and busy with someone strange?

How reliable is that estimation when she has motivation to make is sound bigger?

Got any buddies who like fishing?

Ask them how much they believe measurements in fishing stories, and how much weight to put on claims of "about an inch".