SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good luck tonight Noah. Be brave. Do the right thing. You can do this.

I'll disable my google voice number if we end up going NC.

With passwords and such I'll see what she says. I think some privacy is important too

Noah. It is not fair for you to keep this OW *on the hook* until you see what your BW says or how she reacts.

In a BS's mind...the WS is either *all in* or *all out*. Having a chick on the side is NOT an option. That's is called cake-eating around here. My stbxWH tried to do this many, many times. He told me that he would give up the OW...but only IF I assured him that *I* was 100% *in* on the marriage. Again...did you notice that I bolded the stbx part?

And something else to prepare for is.....you don't have a leg to stand on as far as any type of *negotiations* go. If your BW wants your passwords? You give them to her. If she makes *rules* about your phone? You follow them. Without complaint or resentment. And WHY do you do those things? Because you love your BW, want her to feel safe again, and you want a healthy marriage.

So, Noah. Are you 100% *in* on your marriage?

If my wife asks me what was the sex like... is it okay to be selective with what I say, if you know what I mean or do I still need to be totally honest?

I think there's a way to be honest without being explicit. Really, you're stuck between several rocks and hard places here. Refuse to answer? BAD - you're hiding things. Lie? BAD - you're proving that you truly can't be trusted and aren't good R material. Tell her the OW was great? BAD - you're feeding your wife's insecurities and low self esteem. Tell her the OW was awful? BAD - you were willing to throw your wife under the bus for bad sex (this has the added complication that your wife will probably think you're lying anyway).

My H slept with one of the OW 40-50 times over a 2 month period. Honestly, I know the sex wasn't awful. Common sense tells me that. And yeah, I've asked questions about it. And yeah, I want him to be honest. But none of those things means I want to hear him wistfully recount how wild and crazy and hot their sex life may have been.

This is just one of those areas where it's lose/lose no matter what. One of the many consequences of infidelity.

I think all you can do is do your very best to be honest without being cruel. Don't add to what is already an unbearably painful situation.

Be aware she's likely to be OBSESSIVE about comparing herself to the OW for a long time, trying to find the "magic answer" that will reveal to her the true reason you cheated.

So many things happened that wouldn't' happen normally that led to it.

There's a fine line between recognizing things that contributed to the situation in which you chose to engage in the affair, and allowing those things to become "reasons" or "justifications".

My husband was in a wild party town. He was with single coworkers. We were apart for the majority of the year due to his job. He was drinking a lot. I'd just had a baby and quit my job. We weren't communicating, hadn't really in years. There might be some of those things that made his cheating a lot more likely. Maybe he wouldn't have cheated if some of them hadn't happened, such as his constant travel which gave him a perfect opportunity. Who knows. What it all comes down to is that regardless of what the situation was at the time, a decision was made - cheating is something you decided to do, not something that "happened to you".

It's important that you recognize things that can contribute to a situation, so that you can avoid them in the future, but separate that from the fact that the ultimate responsibility for the decision lies within yourself.

I haven't had sexual contact with my wife since the affair started so there is no possible way I could have infected her or our child.

Research HPV Noah. You don't have to have sexual contact to pass that onto your wife. All it takes is skin on skin contact and condoms do not protect you from it 100%, not that I believe you used condoms with your OW at all. Plus, there is no test for men, so you can have it and not know it.

I don't know what happens with OW if my wife kicks me out. We'll see. I want to save our marriage and as long as there is a chance of that happening I won't be with OW. If my wife kicks me out, files for divorce, and says she never wants to get back together then I don't know.

You would trust this woman to be faithful to you in a relationship?

She is unstable enough to A) be involved with a married man, and B) make you worry that she will try to purposefully destroy your marriage and a family that has THREE small children in it.

Does this seem like relationship material?

How would this woman handle you coparenting? It's all fuzzy bunnies when she's just looking at photos of your lil cuties and taking them on a picnic once in a while, it's entirely another when you can't take her on a date because it's your weekend with the kids, and Junior pukes on her best pair of shoes, and your wife is calling again about needing money for Sally's field trip, and you've got court dates to attend, and your bills are late because your employer accidentally made a mistake and deducted too much money for the child support garnishment, and the kids are mean to her because they love both mom and dad and blame HER for the divorce, and then she gets worried that you're still in love with your ex and doesn't want you to talk to her. Then she decides she's feeling neglected and starts going out with her friends without you, and suddenly YOU'RE worrying about what she's up to because you know firsthand she has no honest, true objection to being involved in infidelity....

I strongly urge you to think about this and to look at the stats on the success rates of relationships that begin via infidelity.

I don't understand at all what your issue is at all. I know I don't have a choice. I have to confess and I am going to. I know that. I am not being casual about anything. I know she has issues too. I haven't said she doesn't.

Wasn't talking about whether you confess or not. Talking about your wife's response and her choices when she does have the facts.

You have talked about your wife throughout the post almost as a grab bag of your disatisfaction, then adding despite my complaints I do love her. That, to me, is very casual and dismissive.

I don't doubt at all you have valid complaints, as I'm sure does she, I'm just responding to the tone you seem to have of putting two women on lay away as if they were alternative pain relievers you used for different aches.

I wonder if you feel the need to be in a relationship of some kind rather than be alone.

I haven't had sexual contact with my wife since the affair started so there is no possible way I could have infected her or our child.

HSV1 can be passed on by kissing. Have you kissed your wife since your affair started? how about your kids. have you kissed them?

There is a possibility you havet infected your children with a sexually transmitted disease. Nice thought huh but it's a reality some WSs face. Infidelity introduces danger to families in more ways than one.

Diseases don't care about denials. You need to get tested to ensure your family's well being. Thats more important than your feelings. Sucks doesn't it, but that's another reason why culture frowns on infidelity.

Good luck tonight, I hop you have the courage to d the right thing.

[This message edited by OktoberMest at 5:38 PM, November 15th (Thursday)]

Hopefully your true character is not what you are showing us, CheaterNoah.

Because things are not looking very good for you.

Lose the attitude, find some humility. Maybe there's a shot.

See, I don't believe you think you have a 10% chance for R. I think you think you have her in the bag. And OW too. Based on the pompous stuff you've posted here.

Blame your wife all you want. Won't help R. Will probably wreck it.

You were unhappy in your M? What did you do to improve it? What did YOU do? Did you get MC, IC? Did you confront problems? Did you get a divorce if things were so far gone? Did you learn about your wife's needs and love languages? What the fuck did you do?

You cheated. Easy way out.

I get it. I did it too. I. Was angry, unhappy, resentful. I didn't try, not really. Easier to fuck the next hot piece of ass that tells me I'm pretty.

The Affair(s) is 100% on the WS. The marital problems are shared.

Can you accept this (fact)?

CheaterNoah,

There is one running theme in your posts that I didn’t really see anyone else address (didn't read all of the replies) so I thought I would.

I've had one affair. This isn't some pattern with me.

Its not okay but its not as if I just cheat constantly. So please don't make it seem like that.

The affair was a total random event. So many things happened that wouldn't' happen normally that led to it.

The way I read your posts, you may have only let things go this far once, but I suspect you’ve had the mindset and acted in this manor for a while.

My wife accuses me because of control issues. 100% control.

My wife for constantly doubting me and accusing me and not trusting me.

She questions relationships with coworkers, accuses me of wanting other women, accuses me of cheating on her when I'm gone for work trips.

… my wife's mistrust and accusations helped the affair happen. Instead of feeling guilty like I would have if she trusted me I felt resentful and like I deserved to do it because I was being blamed anyways.

On SI this is generally referred to as the BS ‘gut.’ It is the innate ability to sense if our spouse is trustworthy. Humans in general pick up on very subtle clues in body language and voice. We may not even know why but we can sense things about the other person even if they are not saying them or even if their words say something totally different. This is especially true in M. Your BWs need for ‘control’ and accusing you and doubting you is more than likely because at some level she ‘knew’ you weren’t trustworthy.

My WW said every one of those things (substitute H in for W), but really my ‘controlling’ was that “she can’t be herself when I was around” and do you know why she couldn’t be herself, because she was acting in ways that she knew were wrong. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything I had said or told her she couldn’t do or told her she had to do. She acted very similar to this:

… I was really flirtatious with her. Much more than I've ever been with anyone else in years.

My "flirting" before OW consisted of maybe teasing a female friend or coworker or friendly complements.

I've flirted before but never in front of my wife and never to the extent where it is aggressive or wrong.

In fact, several of my friends had told me they would never put up with how my WW acted (even when I was around, she was a huge flirt although she didn’t think she was flirting), but I was ‘OK with it’ because I ‘was letting her be herself.’ I now see it for the red flags that they were, and fully understand why I never trusted her. I ‘knew’ at some level if she would act like that when I was around that she could easily go much farther when I wasn’t.

I hope telling your BW went well.

You stated that you "hope your wife will forgive you."

Just remember that just by simply saying "I'm Sorry" will NOT be enough.

YOU are going to have to earn her forgiveness. Which will require A LOT of work.

Are you willing to work for her forgiveness?

I said this before, don't know if you saw it but, you need to read "Things Every WS Needs To Know", found in the WS Forum. It will help guide you & your BW through this terrible time.

Your BW is a victim. She will be suffering from trauma. You MUST be willing to treat her as a victim of trauma.

This is a VERY difficult process. However, it can be successful, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to R.

How did it go last night, CheaterNoah?

My hope is that he did the right thing, and that he is owning up to what he did, rather then what he thinks pushed him to the A.

My fear is that since he was obviously in the fog, that he will blameshift and gaslight. He may not think that is what he is doing, but that is my fear.

I haven't had sexual contact with my wife since the affair started so there is no possible way I could have infected her or our child.

HPV infection can cause cancer of the head and neck such as esophageal cancer. Oral sex can result in transmission of the virus. The virus can also be present in saliva.

Contemplate for awhile the risk you have taken with your wife and unborn child's life/well-being. Make an effort not to minimize it.

I truly hope you can reach the point of feeling shame and are lucky enough to be given a chance at reconcilation with your wife.

I don't know what happens with OW if my wife kicks me out. We'll see. I want to save our marriage and as long as there is a chance of that happening I won't be with OW. If my wife kicks me out, files for divorce, and says she never wants to get back together then I don't know.

OMG--If you actually want your marriage & your family to have any tiny sort of a chance, you do NOT EVER see or talk to OW again--period! If your wife kicks you out (and she has every right to do so), this is when you step up your game. If you conceed "game over" when she tells you to leave, you don't deserve another damn minute with your family. What a sleazy way out! Maybe that is really what you want, gimme all the advice for everything I could do to R and I will do the exact damn opposite because I want out of this M but am too much of a chicken shit to man up & admit it, so I will leave my pregant wife, mother of my 2 children, to be the bad guy here.

If you want any shot at R, YOU need to step up & do the work. You need to stay away from OW. You lose your privacy--you have to earn it back & you don't get to carry resentment for it--turn over your passwords, don't open new accounts, after you have let your wife into your email accounts, voicemail accouts whatever, you can close them together & NEVER look back at them. If OW calls, texts, etc, You need to volunteer to change your phone number. If you have been going out with the guys, not happening--you cannot be trusted, you don't get to do the same things you have always done. It is YOUR job to reassure your wife that you are on the up & up. You answer every single question she has & I don't care how those answers make you feel. You work to get MC set up if there is any hope she will go. This is a long road & you don't get to turn the tables on her. You do get to have feelings about this, but you need to start IC & work it out. Your wife isn't the person for you to unload this stuff on. This is your pennence for YOUR bad choices.

I really hope things went well for you & you didn't accuse, blame & destroy your wife further with your actions during disclosure. If that means, she kicked you out, that's fine. It is your actions now that can still help you retain your marriage. Don't fuck it up--stay the course! Get IC for individual help & stay the hell away from OW & anyone that could be another OW period.

Also, someone mentioned the book: Not Just Friends--get it & read it for YOU. If your wife wants to look at it, that is fine, but YOU need to read this for you.

[This message edited by manybrokenpieces at 1:47 PM, November 17th (Saturday)]

CheaterNoah hasn't been back to this thread since Thursday. Let's leave this thread until he comes back to respond.

Also:

manybrokenpieces

BS's are not to swing 2x4's in this forum. Please read the forum description and the tacked thread at the top of this forum page to familiarize yourself with the guidelines.

So I confessed everything to my BW. I am sorry for not posting sooner but as you can imagine things were unbelievably stressful and tense for us both. I was going to do it on Thursday but when the moment came I couldn't do it then. We were having such a good night together, just the two of us and I couldn't break it to her then. It was honestly one of the best times we have had together in months and of course it had to happen on the day I was going to confess. The shame I was concerned about not having hit me hard. I took Friday off and I told her that night I had to tell her something in the morning. After we had our breakfast I just let it out and told her I was a shitty husband and I had been having an affair and that I was ashamed and sorry and I would do anything she wanted to make it up to her.

Her reaction wasn't anger at all. I was expecting her to be spitting angry and violent and yelling and screaming. She was just broken. She didn't even yell at me but she just asked me how could I and she said she couldn't believe I would do this to us. I started crying when she fell on the floor and wouldn't look at me and we just sat in the floor of our kitchen for almost two hours. Me crying and her crying. I went to hold her and she wouldn't let me and we were just both sitting a few feet apart and destroyed. I haven't ever felt lower than I did and she couldn't even look at me and just sat there for so long. It was heartbreaking for me. Nothing was worth seeing her that way.

We didn't really talk about anything for the rest of Friday. She didn't say a word to me and I slept in our guest bedroom. OW texted me too during the day but I never responded. My wife ended up telling me she wanted to think about things and we should get it together for when her parents dropped off our kids in the morning. We didn't talk all Saturday either and she watched our daughter while I took my son to a football game. I texted my wife throughout the game telling her how sorry I am.

She talked to me and asked me some questions on Saturday night. The basics that I already had prepared for. How long. With who. Did you have sex. Do you love her. It was almost cathartic to let it out. She wanted to know why she should even take me back and I told her she shouldn't have to but if she would I would do anythign I can to make it better. I did not blame her at all for the affair. She didn't respond with any real emotion during the whole questioning process. It was just like almost disbelief. How could you?

I did tell her EVERYTHING. That we had sex in our house and in my car. That OW loved me but I didn't love her. That my wife had seen OW before and it was the same girl we fought about. I think I wanted and needed her to be angry at me. And I didn't get that. The closest she got to angry was just "Fuck you, how could you?" or "Are you fucking kidding me Noah" type statements. As much as I wanted to believe she didn't trust me and suspected me she was honestly surprised that I was cheating and she did not expect it at all.

What she wants to do is take it day by day. I'm not out of the house but I am in the guest room and just waiting to see her next move. My wife hasn't asked about OW much yet and we haven't done NC letters together or anything like that. I want to just see what she wants to do right now. She hasn't been very definitive and I think right now she is just trying to figure things out and talk to her family or whomever and see what to do. I want to give her the time to make that decision.

Today was more of the same. We had to go to a Church event in the afternoon and we played happy family for everyone and in front of the kids but she didn't seem into it. There hasn't been any sort of real conversation between us. I've been trying to tell her I am sorry whenever I can but I'm not sure where we go. On the positive side I was afraid she would kick me the fuck out (as I put it before) and that didn't happen. As long as I am still here I think we have a sliver of a shot at reconciliation. I don't want to pressure her into making a decision and I'm just waiting for a sign from her which has been so so difficult. I am glad I confessed though because it is like a weight is off my chest. As bad as this is with us and seeing her like she is has been tough I at least can stop with all the lies and double life. So that has been maybe the only thing that feels good. I don't think I could have kept up a lie for years and years so this was the only choice and the best choice.

Thank you to everyone for all of the advice and criticism and all the helpful threads and articles on this site. It helped so much with everything.

[This message edited by CheaterNoah at 5:56 PM, November 18th (Sunday)]

You did good, Noah, with confessing.

I'm glad to hear that you had the courage to go through with it. No matter what the eventual outcome of your situation, at least you know that you did *this* part right.

Just a suggestion for you. You said that you had the OW in your home. If you had sex with her in your bed, it may be a nice, pro-active gesture to throw out that bed and replace it (ALL of it--hardware, sheets, comforter) with a new one.

Thanks for the update and continue to be open, honest and transparent. Good.on.you for confessing.

You did good, Noah, with confessing.

I'm glad to hear that you had the courage to go through with it. No matter what the eventual outcome of your situation, at least you know that you did *this* part right.

Just a suggestion for you. You said that you had the OW in your home. If you had sex with her in your bed, it may be a nice, pro-active gesture to throw out that bed and replace it (ALL of it--hardware, sheets, comforter) with a new one.

Thanks for the update and continue to be open, honest and transparent. Good.on.you for confessing.

Thanks.

Just to clarify with the OW it was NEVER in our bed. We were together one time in an air mattress in a kids bedroom. I didn't bring her into our marital bed. Having her in our home was wrong too and I know that.

Noah,

I commend you for confessing to your wife. I can only wish at this point that I had done the same. It was the right thing to do.

Keep doing the right thing now. Don't wait for a sign from her. Be proactive in demonstrating that she is the one one you want to be with. Write an NC letter and show it to her. Tell her you will send it because she is number one in your heart. Write a timeline of your A. She may or may not want to read it but that way you will have the information if needed. When you do go somewhere keep her posted with your whereabouts.

I know I have been hard on you. I just hate seeing people make similar mistakes that I have. R is a difficult road. Discovery is just the beginning. Don't stop now, don't just leave it in her hands. Provide her space and respect but demonstrate loving behavior towards her.

What gonnabe said.

And this:

My wife hasn't asked about OW much yet and we haven't done NC letters together or anything like that.

Have you been completely NC with the OW? I would strongly recommend that you draft a NC letter and have it ready to show your BW to approve it when she is ready. I also suggest that you direct her here.

She is likely in shock right now, and when she starts to react she will need a ton of support, especially since she is pregnant. Is there someone IRL she can talk to? Is she able to eat and drink?