SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I got a phone call almost two weeks ago from a woman who wouldn't identify herself (no caller ID either) saying that my wife was having an affair with "H." She said that he'd done this before, and that it has ruined marriages. I don't remember her exact words, but I got the impression that hers was one of these marriages.

The name did not surprise me -- I knew he liked her too much, and I thought maybe she liked *him* too much. She'd been spending way too much time with some friends she'd made over the last year and a half, including this "H" clown. (This guy has been married around 35 years. My wife says that his wife plans to clean him out in the divorce. I wonder if there *is* a divorce in progress, and if she even knows about the affair... and I wonder if I should say something to her.)

I did a little online research on this guy, discovered a phone number, etc. I then checked our cell-phone bills for numbers that my wife had dialed, and sure enough, there he was.

I confronted her, and she confirmed the affair. We've been married *27 years*. She'd never actually had a sexual affair, though she had something of an emotional affair 20 years ago: "I was in love with him," she said. Why she came back to me, I don't know.

My wife said she'd been unhappy in our marriage for a long time, that, essentially, I hadn't met her needs. The needs she cited were more help around the house, and more aggressiveness in terms of getting decent jobs. These are legitimate concerns, since I really don't do anything like half the housework, but, more importantly, I'm not much of a go-getter in terms of employment. I've had some terrible job experiences, and it's made me very gun-shy over the years. I also suffer from major depression, which kind of paralyzes me. This isn't an excuse -- it's just the way it is.

I expressed that I would do anything to work on this marriage, but my wife said she wasn't sure she wanted to stay in it anyway, and that this "H" person "makes me happy." I think they've been seeing each other since the summer.

Anyway, she left that night to stay with a "friend" -- not "H," I don't think, though I don't doubt that she *has* stayed with him at least once since then. Shortly after she left, "H" made two hang-up calls to our land-line. (By then, he knew the jig was up. I don't know if he was calling just to be a jerk, or if he was trying to speak with her.)

There were plenty of signs that, even at the time, made me wonder. For one thing, after years of what I would consider an unsatisfactory, unsatisfying sex life, suddenly she became extremely horny, for about a month. We did things we hadn't done in 20 years -- nothing sick, just stuff I liked that I figured she wasn't interested in. But now she was initiating them, and I certainly have to wonder if she's doing these things for "H."

Not long after that, the night after coming home from work in tears, saying that her boss had torn her a new one, she came home falling-down drunk. (I'd never seen her like this... tipsy, yes.) She was all over me, which is something I normally would have approved of, but it was like she was another, far less appealing person who happened to look like my wife. It was not a pleasant experience.

I managed to persuade her to go to couples counseling, but the first person we saw treated me as though nothing I had to say was at all relevant. My wife talked about her rotten upbringing and the fact that she has an illness which, she believes, will shorten her life, though the doctor says otherwise.

We'll be seeing another marriage counselor in a couple of days. I feel lucky that she's even agreeing to go, because it sure doesn't feel like her heart is in it -- because "H" makes her happy, I guess.

We have a son, 18, who lives with us. Naturally, he was very upset when we told him that his mom would be moving out indefinitely. What he doesn't know yet is that she's planning to find a new place, which is rich, since the two of us together can barely afford our two-bedroom place, and a new place for her would cost more than half as much. Even if she got a studio, there wouldn't be anywhere for our son to stay. (Just because he's 18 doesn't mean he's an adult... and he isn't, yet.) This will eventually result in him and me having to leave our apartment and, most likely, move in with my mom, who lives over an hour away.

Oh, did I mention that my dad just died late last month? My mom would love the company -- she's never lived by herself -- but moving there would mean we'd both be out of sight, out of mind. So my wife would get what she thinks she wants: us out of the way so she can do whatever she feels like.

I have started therapy, though I don't know that it's helping any. The first counselor we saw tried to get her to believe that she's in a codependent relationship (which, at least according to the various definitions of codependency, is not true), so I figure she's got her head filled with that kind of thing.

I love my wife very deeply, and I've always supported her efforts, even if I'm not industrious or ambitious enough. She's known, from the day we started seeing each other, that she has never had to worry about me cheating on her, so she has no idea what this feels like.

In short, I have never felt worse in my life -- even when, back when we were dating, she got cold feet and started seeing other guys for six months. During that time, I was a wreck. I'm not proud of my behavior -- it wasn't exactly mature -- but she came back, and until that awful day, I'd been thankful every day since.

I'm not considering suicide or anything like that. For one thing, I don't want to die. Mainly, though, suicide is such a selfish thing to do. I have family and friends who love and support me, and even if I wanted to die, I'd never hurt them like that.

Nor am I considering homicide, or doing anything violent to "H." I *imagine* it a lot, though. My wife would be shocked at the images in my head. *I'm* shocked. I'm no fighter, though, so it's not like I'd go and take him on or something. Still, I have never hated anyone or anything in my life like I hate this guy. I'm not the kind of person who wishes bad things on people, but I wish him the worst. Any horrible thing I can think of, though, is too good for him.

The images of them in bed, though, are much worse, and I can't get past it.

Friends and family are telling me not to focus on

"H," saying that he's basically just enabling this behavior, that it's my wife who's the central figure in all this. I know that, and the horribly frustrating thing is that there's nothing I can say or do to influence her. Oh, I guess I could drive her away even more, but I can't bring her back.

And maybe you're wondering why I'd *want* to bring back a woman who would cheat on me, and you'd certainly have a good point.

It kills me that she doesn't see that this guy's a predator -- he targets middle-aged, vulnerable, married women, and he's the catalyst in wrecking their marriages. But she's not going to realize this until he dumps her for the next one. And by then, who knows if she'll even *want* to come back to me?

Again, why do I want her back? Because I love her dearly and enormously. She's a wonderful woman who has made some horrific choices, and I'm aching for her to return and work with me on our marriage.

I know that she knows her behavior has been, well, wrong. Even she said, "I might be making the biggest mistake of my life," which tells me that on some level, she knows she is. She has a husband who practically worships her, and in-laws who treat her like a daughter and sister -- my family is crazy about her. (She even spoke at my dad's funeral last month -- she adored him. And about ten days later... wham!) By the way, none of my friends and family had the slightest idea that anything like this could ever happen between us.

I know she's not in a good place, emotionally. The fact that she's run to this SOB for comfort is more painful than anything I've ever known. It's like I'm being eaten away from the inside by something with poisonous fangs.

Believe me, I feel for all of you who are going through something similar. This is really killing me.

At least I'm eating and sleeping better... but still not very well. And it's almost impossible to concentrate on (or care about) work. I can't even sit through a TV show anymore because this is just consuming my mind almost completely.

The people I've been talking to have known us for as long as we've been together -- 30 years, including dating -- but the people *she* is confiding in have known her for about 18 months, and they don't know me. They don't get that what she has at home is pretty darned good: a husband who, even knowing that we've both had problems with this marriage, is totally committed to working on them and improving the situation; so I figure they're telling her stuff like, "The heart wants what the heart wants." The thing there is, we also have brains, which tell us (in theory) when we're doing something wrong.

I know she's full of guilt, and that's what our brains do to us when we do something awful. And it seems to me that if you're considering an action that you *know* would deeply hurt someone you love, and who loves you, then the thing to do is *not to do it*.

I'm going to stop here, but I could go on and on (in case you don't think I've already done so...). Thank you for hearing me out.

First, take care of yourself. Eat right, sleep well, figure out what YOU like to do (movies, exercise, reading?) and start doing it.

You are the victim, you are the one who needs to heal.

Thanks. I know you're right. I'm trying to go walking every day (though it rained like hell today), and I'm trying to keep myself fed. Sleeping is bad... I never really sleep well anyway, but I'm waking up at least once an hour these days.

I know I pretty much have to make myself pursue my interests, because my normal feelings about them just aren't happening -- I just don't care about anything except this situation. (I haven't even really mourned my dad, though I miss him terribly.)

((Smoky)) Welcome to SI. I just bumped up some very good posts for you to check out, like the Tactical Primer and Understanding the 180. Please take care of yourself and your son, because difficult days are ahead. Do a lot of reading and posting on here - there's a lot of good advice and caring people.

(((Smoky)))

Welcome. if you have a question someone will give you an answer. With the holidays here, responses will be a little slower.

But we are here to help.

Dirk

I am at three and a half weeks since I found out. The pain has been excruciating. My sleep is starting to get a little better, but I wake up very anxious. I have not put any of the weight that I have lost back on. My mood changes so quickly - from sadness and feeling lost, to feeling so much rage! I am afraid I am going to drive away my family and friends.

Exercise helps with the anxiety. Reading the other posts here helps me feel like I am reacting like a sane person, not some crazy woman. I haven't had much luck controlling my mind though. My WS is with the OW. I think about what they are doing, the great sex they are having, him telling her that he loves her (I found texts they were sending back and forth). I am coming to the conclusion that my marriage as I knew it is over. We are separated right now. He has shown no remorse and blames me for the affair. I have consulted with an attorney. I feel like I am moving towards the direction of divorce since he is unwilling to go to counseling. He hasn't asked me for a divorce yet, says he thinks he has found someone he could love, but isn't sure. He needs more time, he doesn't want to make a decision out of anger or hurt. But his actions speak volumes. I am not going to wait around while he makes up his mind!! I am not his plan B.

Take the best care of yourself that you can. Find the things that will give you a moment of peace. Lean on your trusted friends and family. Know that you are not alone.

Smoky,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I know how you feel. I have been married to my soon-to-be-ex-wayward-wife (STBXWW) for only eight years but besides that, I could have written your post. My STBXWW has been behaving almost identically. I don't recognize her anymore.

Look, you mentioned in your post that your wife says she'd been "unhappy in our marriage for a long time" and that you hadn't "met her needs". Ok, fine, fair enough. Regarding her going out and having an affair though,

That doesn't mean JACK SHIT!

It is absolutely imperative that you sear the following into your mind, heart, and soul:

Her having an affair had NOTHING to do with YOU or YOUR MARRIAGE.

Infidelity happens as much in marriages that are considered great as they do in marriages that are considered troubled. Affairs have to do with personal problems and not marital problems. Although a "troubled" marriage becomes, in the mind of those with low self-esteem and inner-validation issues, a great excuse to act out on their dysfunction. It's easier to blame the spouse for "pushing" them into an affair - a cowardly crock of shit - rather than take the guilt and responsibility for being the ultimate selfish piece of shit.

Again, please know the affair has nothing to do with you. Really knowing this will get you sleeping again and allow you a healthier perspective on the situation. I would also recommend detaching immediately, consult with an attorney, and file for divorce immediately (although you don't have to follow through if your not ready to). This is your best chance at getting her attention and back into reality instead of the responsibility-free, perpetual-honeymoon bullshit fantasy of the fucked-up affair she's in now.

Turn your focus 150% towards YOU and YOUR SON. Operate from this point on with only your's and your sons best interests in mind. Then, if she snaps out of her fucked-upness and is willing to attempt reconciliation then you can consider it if you are so inclined. If she is not then you will already have begun your path to healing and a life without her.

Be strong, and remember you have integrity and honesty on your side.

I know she's full of guilt,

So she banged him again and agin even after you finding out. REALLY?.

She is looking for a single life style banging OM without you interfering. She want to move out and have the same.

Are you OK with sharing your wife with OM? If not take your head out off your ass and see the reality of what she is doing and stand for yourself and your self respect.

Your love for her is unhealthy. you also seems emotionally weak and codependent, emotionally healthy people dont allow any one to disrespect them and treat them like a POS.

Get a new councilor for you and Get some IC to deal with this.

Gee Kannan, a little harsh, don't you think? Smoky's D-day was just 2 weeks ago. I think Smoky is doing darn well just to put one foot in front of the other, find SI, and tell his story. Give the man a break.

Smoky, I am so so sorry for your pain, but please remember, you are not alone. ((((smoky))))

Yes, this IS the worst pain most of us have felt. But, I promise you, with time, it will get better, regardless of whether you R or D, time will heal.

How you ask? By putting you and your son first. Concentrate on fulfilling your needs. Figure out what makes you happy. What are some things that would make you feel better about yourself? Going to the gym? Riding a bike? Planting a garden? Joining a club? Whatever, doesn't matter what it is...just do it. Get out of the house. Try to enrich yourself for yourself. Tell yourself, "this is MY life, ultimately I am the only one that controls my happiness". Fuck her. Fuck the OP.

Smoky, as long as she knows that she has you to come running back to, she will diddle around and fuck with your heart indefinitely. Don't allow that.

Work on the 180. Take care of yourself. And I guarantee you that she will take notice.

But remember, you are doing this for yourself...so even if things do not work out in the way you want, you will be strong enough to make those difficult decisions.

Find the OP's wife, and tell her what is going on. She may already know, she may not, but make sure that you tell her. Do not tell your wife what you are about to do. JUST DO IT.

Get yourself tested for STD's. If this man is a player, no telling what he's carrying.

You say your two are going to see a MC in a few days. Sweetie, think long and hard about how you are going to handle that, because some MC's are not properly trained to deal with infidelity, and can make things worse.

You need to make it clear to the MC what has happened, and that your wife is still seeing the OP. make it clear that you will NOT tolerate her cheating, and that must be dealt with before any 'working in the marriage' issues are even remotely touched on.

Smoky, what usually works best, is when the BS comes down extremely hard on the WS right from the very beginning. No begging, no wishy-washy please come back to me bullshit, but unemotional, unequivocal, firm conditions for R. Stand up for yourself, no waffling.

Again, I am so sorry for your pain, especially right here at holiday time. The holiday season is especially hard for me too.

PPGA

First, thank you all for your kindness and words of comfort.

Some replies:

* kernel: Thanks very much. I look forward to reading those replies, as well as the 180 and Tactical Primer, but where did you bump them up to?

* Dirk: Thanks -- I hope eventually to be helpful, like you and so many others, to people who are in the same boat as I am. Right now... I'm not much use to anyone.

* Dawn: I could've written those first couple of sentences -- I'm sorry you (and so many others here) are going through this.

It sounds like your husband is going out of your way to be hurtful -- what could the upside of that possibly be for him? Aren't the actions bad enough without rubbing your nose in it?

* Keptmyword: I'm doing my best to think of the affair as All Her -- and I'm much more worried about the marriage than the affair. In that session with the first marriage counselor last week -- the one I never hope to see again, because she acted like I was only relevant by preventing anything good from ever happening to my wife -- my wife talked about not having gotten over her lousy childhood, thanks largely to two addictive parents (to say nothing of molestation by a neighbor), all of which I've known about for decades and have talked with her about at length. Since our financial situation is pretty bad, it makes "sense" that she'd want to get away from that and move toward a guy who's more financially stable -- owns his own business, nice house (which, says my wife, *his* wife will get in the divorce... assuming the divorce really is happening). She met this guy in a community play... and three of my family members met him and all said (without talking to each other first) that he reminded them of my wife's dad. That's hard to ignore.

That first "therapist" used the word "desperate" to describe my demeanor, and my wife keyed in on that, saying "I can't be around your desperation -- I'm feeling it even as we sit here." Later I thought, "Yeah, you call it desperate. I call it hurt, angry, horrified, betrayed, outraged... what you can't stand being around is my feelings about your choices, and your own guilt being reflected back at you." Of course, I didn't say this at the time -- but I'll sure try to tomorrow.

My fear about filing for divorce (not counting the fact that I don't have the money even to consult a lawyer right now) is that she'll call my bluff. Other than that, I've considered it.

* Kannan: Who knows if she's banged him since I found out? I assume as much, but I have no idea. As for your overall reply, you try being married 27 years to someone you're crazy about before telling me it's easy just to cut bait. Not that it's for me to dictate policy around here, but maybe you ought to stay out of this discussion.

* painpaingoaway: It's hard to get out of the house, but I'm trying to. I've been to two therapy sessions, and (except for yesterday) walking every day. I've got plans for a couple of little presents for myself -- we'll see if that helps any.

I'm still wrestling with telling the guy's wife. They're in their sixties, and I have the feeling she knows perfectly well (especially if the divorce is really happening -- I mean, this guy could have just *told* my wife it's happening, despite having no intention of it).

By the way, when I started to say stuff last week about "What kind of person pursues other men's wives?" my wife said, "I don't let *him* badmouth *you*." I couldn't believe it -- and the "therapist" wasn't going to let me say anything else anyway. But I was thinking, "What does *he* have to badmouth *me* about? He barely knows me. I've never hit you, never hurt or abused you, never treated you like crap or taken you for granted, never had sex with *his* wife. But he's stolen *my* wife, so I think I'll badmouth him all I want."

I'd *love* to say that I won't tolerate her seeing "H" anymore. I *have* said it. But she's talking about not being sure how much she wants to work on the marriage anyway, and that "H" makes her happy, so telling her to knock it off isn't going to have much of an effect. You *betcha* this will be mentioned as non-negotiable tomorrow: "There *is* no more 'H.'" But what good will it do? She agreed to see this counselor with me because, she says, of our son.

So far I haven't been begging her to come back -- which is rather different from the way I handled it when I was 23.

Again, everybody, thanks for your kindness and compassion.

Ah smoky,

You bad mouth that limp dicked douchbag all you want. He's one lucky bastard if that all you do.

So she luurrrvvveess this 'older man'? She's gonna be one sad sack when the lurrrvvvee wears off and she is left changing his diapers.

Smoky, seriously, you need to get angry and say these things you are feeling. Everything you are feeling is perfectly natural rage at what has happened. Express the rage. Don't hurt anyone, but don't bottle that shit up...let it out.

Oh yes, and if the MC starts going off in a direction you are uncomfortable with, SAY SO! Remember, YOU are paying for their service. If you feel it is hurting rather than helping, say so, and of things don't improve, walk out on the session.

Our first MC was a dick. After a few sessions I realized that things were not improving, and I said so. And stood up, said I was leaving and told the jerk not to send me a bill, because I would not pay him for NOT helping the situation. The MC looked like this:

I do plan to express the rage, but it seems like a delicate balance -- if I go *too* apeshit in our session tomorrow, I figure she won't come to another one, since she's acting like she'd just as soon *not* do marriage counseling. But as I say, the man stole my wife -- he gets no breaks from me, and I hope he rots, slowly and painfully, from the inside out.

Smokey, Like many here, I was in nearly the exact situation you are; Wife blames everything on me for 23 years of M, total lack of remorse, no interest in MC, and when she did go it was a sham, plus the MC was all about me fixing what *must* have been wrong with me to MAKE WW stray, and I should get better to win her back... FUCKING BULLSHIT! and don't you believe a second of it. Sometimes cheaters do it for boredom, easy opportunity because they want to, and always, always it's on them.

Personally, I would not go to MC until she is remorseful and 150% on board with R. Now all that said:

I'd *love* to say that I won't tolerate her seeing "H" anymore. I *have* said it. But she's talking about not being sure how much she wants to work on the marriage anyway, and that "H" makes her happy, so telling her to knock it off isn't going to have much of an effect.

That RIGHT THERE is INSTANT FILING FOR D, with no words needed!!! Sure, you may not go through with it, but you show in no uncertainty that you are not an option, and there is no B.S. of sitting on the fence of her wondering, you will make the choice for her. Google up "just let them go", and believe it!

Take it from very personal, very painful experience, you WILL NOT love her/sex her/logic her/talk or convince her into doing anything you want, PERIOD. My STBXWW did not want to abide by boundaries I set (NC with dickwad @ work), so my only option was to serve her D papers, and I feel much better that I am sticking to my ethics, and keeping my self esteem. As much as it may seem to you now, you do not need this women, and if she can not respect you, she does not deserve you. You are the prize here, not her, and she should be begging you for the chance to redeem herself fully and without conditions.

I understand the fear of pissing her off, and making it seem worse and increasing her desire to leave... Guess what, she is going to be pissed anyways! It's up to her to own her shit, and if she can't it's up to you to take a path that does not have three people in a M.

Good luck to you friend, and everyone is pulling for you during a time that for many, myself included is more painful than the death of a loved one.

Smoky....

Sorry youre here with us at SI...but welcome....

I will assume you have read the "healing library"?? If not...please do...yes..the whole damn thing...

Remember ....you wife making the decision to cheat is NOT your fault....

There are several good, well written threads here in JFO that contain alot of good information in them...they have targets or "bulls eyes" in the margins.....please take the time to look at them.....

One question, Bro.....is your wife still in any contact with her BF.....any at all???

Alot of affairs will go underground at this point.....do NOT stick your head into the sand!!! Verify everything!!!

And.....you will survive this...you will be OK....one way or another...you will be OK!!!

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 11:29 AM, December 22nd (Saturday)]

"I can't be around your desperation -- I'm feeling it even as we sit here."

Smoky...

This one sentence really struck a chord with me... My deal is similar in some ways with you and others not so much but there is something a lot of us learned the hard way...

Desperation kills your appeal...

My mother died about 6 months before the ex started her A... I was dumbstruck because I was mourning the loss of my last parent and here she was off hopping on some guys dick... I wreaked desperation... Boy, did that backfire...

Best thing I did was pick myself up and do my own thing... There were no more "talks" about anything... I was off on my own and making my life... I looked and acted anything but desperate...

I grew stronger and knew I deserved to be treated better than the shit she was shoveling my way... There was a smugness she expressed to me that disappeared when she saw the dust trail I left escaping from her crappy treatment...

Ya see my man... There isn't a deep, thoughtful and meaningful outward reaction to this crap that will touch the W's heart... Reason is a language people in an A can't hear...

Until your actions demand respect, you won't get any... Until they see and experience the "adios" attitude you're still the backup plan...

Imagine that.... You're the backup plan in your M right now... Kinda fucked up isn't it?

Strength, self deterimination and self preservation is your goal... If she pulls her head out and comes crawling back with snot running down her face great... Then it's your turn to decide if you want to risk having a deceitful liar in your life...

While you're protecting yourself inform the OM's BW that he's giving the high hard one to your WW... Don't tell your WW you're going to do it... JUST DO IT...

Desperate will get you no where and self confidence will get you everywhere, with or without her....

WB

You are the prize here, not her,

Correct. You are a faithful husband. She's a cheater. Who's the prize here?

You are only going to be able to leave this helll when you accept that D is possible and you're ok with it. Only then you will have a chance of R because she will not have any leverage on you.

[This message edited by nuance at 1:09 PM, December 22nd (Saturday)]

Everybody, please know that my heartfelt thanks are implied for your advice, sympathy, warmth, empathy, and friendship for a complete stranger.

* Shockleader: "Personally, I would not go to MC until she is remorseful and 150% on board with R." I'm not sure I have that luxury. I mean, among other things, we need to find a way to communicate about whatever's coming up, and we need to deal with our son, our finances, our home(s), etc. But I think that if I don't press for marriage counseling, it'll make things worse and increase the distance.

As for "instant filing" for divorce, I'm just not prepared for that, in any way. I don't think divorce is *the* answer for infidelity. The fact is, I made a commitment, and I intend to keep it until it's impossible anymore. On the other hand, I'm not discounting what you've said. I am not interested in being her fallback option or being taken for granted. It's pretty clear to me that nothing I can do or say will influence her -- she won't hear the chord until it sounds inside her head.

Again, I know it doesn't sound as though she's anything to fight for, and I want to believe I'm the prize and all... but I want to be *her* prize. I mean, I've loved her with all my heart for 30 years. I'm not going to be hitting on women just to get laid or get revenge, or whatever. I agree, however, that *she* should be the one fighting for this marriage. I just wish I could make people behave the way they should.

I want to believe that her participation in marriage counseling means that she's at least *exploring* the possibility of saving this marriage, and there's no question I would not allow anything with this "H" person. Violation of that -- again, assuming she'll even try -- would result in me telling her to take a hike, hard as that would be.

After we'd been married about five years, she had an emotional affair with an old boyfriend (who lives out of state, no less). Why she came back, I still don't know; the main problem was that I was reluctant to start a family. I came around, and she came around. I guess. In any case, at the time, she said, "If you want me to have no contact with him, I won't." I said, "Well, you're a grownup. You need to make that decision. I can't tell you who you can and can't talk to." Next day I said, "I've changed my mind. You *can't* have any contact with that guy. Ever again." And, to my knowledge, she complied.

Right now, though, she's in the throes of more than just an "emotional" affair -- the guy's local, and she may be with him as I type this. I will be telling her tomorrow, "I want you to drop this guy." She won't comply, but at least she'll be quite certain of my position.

And I'm here to tell you, you're right: This *is* more painful than the death of a loved one. As I said earlier, my dad died in November. Alzheimer's -- which means we really lost him, gradually, over a period of a few years, so it's not a shock. Still, it's terrible, and my mom, for the first time in her life (and after a 60-plus-year marriage), lives alone. And I can barely find room in my brain to process it.

I should mention, too, that a year ago my wife was diagnosed with a mild, very slow-growing form of lymphoma. Her doctor hasn't even treated it, because it's so slow -- she's monitoring it, and it hasn't gotten any worse. My wife feels fine. However, she seems to have decided that after reading on the Internet that her lifespan has been shortened significantly, nothing her doctor says seems to stick with her. So this is something she's panicking about. I'd take her lymphoma over her infidelity any day -- easy for me to say, since I don't have that choice....

* Buffalo: While I do take responsibility for elements of our marriage that haven't been good, I sure as hell don't blame myself for her cheating. She's supposedly an adult, and when faced with such an opportunity, it was up to her to say no. For crying out loud, in 27 years of marriage, *certainly* there have been other women I've found attractive. I'm not much of a flirt, and I've never come remotely close to pursuing anybody else, but with two women I've thought, "Um... maybe I like her a little *too* much," even if there was no real strong indication that they felt that way about me. My course of action was to back off, because (a) I'm married, (b) I love my wife and wouldn't betray her for anything, and (c) *you just don't cheat*. It's just not okay.

I haven't read the whole library, but I will, along with other reading material people are suggesting.

Meanwhile, yes, of *course* she's in contact with this asshole. The night I learned about the affair, she left our apartment to stay with a friend (a 60-ish woman who experienced her own bitter divorce). To my knowledge, she's been there ever since (i.e., nearly two weeks, not counting any time she might have stayed with "H" *or* the couple nights she stayed in our apartment while I was at my mom's last weekend, breaking the news to her). In other words, it's not like she got caught and promised to work on our relationship. She doesn't know *what* she wants -- she says. What I think she *thinks* she wants is this "Love... exciting and new!" nonsense. My head's not in the sand, but forbidding her to contact this clown will have no effect at this point. It's still too early (and maybe it's too late.)

* Wonderingbull:

I'd had the same thought about the desperation. Mostly it's coming out as anger right now, but back when I was 23 I was pathetic. I learned that this really was a weak way to behave. I mean, I'm six feet tall and weigh 200 pounds (which is about 20 too much), but back then I weighed 165... and I dropped below 130 in four months. That's a weight loss on par with lung cancer. She saw how pitiful I was, but infrequently, and from a distance. Had she seen me every day, she probably would've stayed away. This time around, I cannot and will not do that. Among other things, I have to maintain employment, keep my apartment while I can, and, more than anything, stay strong for my son.

I'll certainly make it clear that I'm angry, outraged, and all the rest of it, but there will be a lot more of a "fuck you" attitude -- things didn't turn around last time until I got good and angry, rather than weepy all the time. This time I haven't shed a tear, and I don't intend to. I feel that she's behaving like a spoiled child, and she's the one who has to knock it off.

I'm really sorry about your mom, and believe me, I can sympathize, given that my dad died 11/29 and I got the phone call about the affair on 12/10... as well as the fact that my wife gave that heartfelt speech at his funeral (and now, of course, I question how "heartfelt" it really was).

I'm still afraid that no counseling and zero contact between us will simply widen the distance, but I'm not going out of my way to contact her. At 23, I was writing her letters every week or so, pouring my heart out. This time around I realize that if I give her something to read, there's every chance she'll just toss it when she starts to feel guilty. Why go to the trouble?

And I do get that logic and reason are pretty hopeless in this situation. What she'll hear, basically, is the damage she's doing, and my contempt for her actions. Maybe that's stupid, too, but I feel strongly that I need to express it to her. She *knows* I love her and want her back -- I don't think I need to go overboard in expressing *that*.

As for whether I'm the backup plan in my own marriage... I don't know. She's giving me the impression that I may not even be that. Oh, she says she loves me and all, but she acts like she doesn't want me to have any hope.

If indeed she comes crawling back, I'm at a point where I'd say "All is forgiven... but guess what: here are some ground rules, which must be followed to the letter." And I would mean that.

I'm still wrestling with telling the bastard's wife, partly 'cause I figure she knows. On the other hand, there's every chance she doesn't -- that the "divorce" he says he's involved in is fiction designed to keep my wife on the hook. I don't want to cause the wife any (more) pain than she's feeling, but I'm more important to me than she is. I'm leaning toward telling her, and I'd need some compelling reasons not to.

* Nuance: I already accept that divorce is possible, though I'm certainly not yet okay with it. However, I've accepted that if that's what she wants, it's not like I could prevent it by refusing to go along.

By the way, when I asked why -- once she started having these serious misgivings about our marriage, and especially when she started feeling attraction toward "H" -- she didn't *say* anything to me, her answer was, "I didn't want you to hate me." I answered instinctively -- "Hating you is not an option." But I realized later that maybe I *do* hate her a little bit. In any case, "I didn't want you to hate me" is *such* a lame answer." What it really means is that she was afraid of my "desperation," anger, and all the other stuff she's feeling, as well as having to face her own guilt.

Everybody: I sure as hell hope the best for you all. If I don't deserve this shit, you certainly don't.

As for "instant filing" for divorce, I'm just not prepared for that, in any way. I don't think divorce is *the* answer for infidelity

Hi, There will be a few people here that remember all the bullshit that I put up with to save my M. There was a point that she wanted to stay at her sister's. She knew that the first thing I would do woukd be to start filing for D.

Needless to say, she stayed with me.

Take care, You do what you have to do.

Dirk

I just found out Monday. He stayed home because he wasn't feeling well. We got the kids to school and then he tore my world apart. He was forced to end it because the H found out. He even posted on my facebook to contact me because has something to tell me about my husband. Thankfully for him I did not find out about the posting for 2 days. It would be easier to forgive and work on saving us if he had been the one to end things. He decided to do the right thing. Not another man. Now all I can think of is them together and when they would be meeting as we did our normal everyday things. I am the crazy one because we can't tell anyone to protect our kids. I am the one who is messing up. It is christmas and I am not a good enough actress to pretend that nothing is wrong. What I do like about this forum is I know my reaction is normal. I have to go through this to get to the otherside. My obsessing, torture and vivid thoughts are normal. All of his underwear have been thrown out. We are looking for a new bed before I am willing to sleep in it again. He defiled that with thoughts of her while he held me in his arms. I am sorry for you and everyone felling so horrible. I am sad that we have all joined this club. It does help understanding and knowing how this affects others.