SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It is in your childrens best interest that you and your STBXW structure your lives, and your agreements, with the least amount of conflict and stress.

The less that one of your depends on the other, or have co-mingled interests, will probably be best for your kids.

Remaining in a home that you can't support AND accumulate savings means you will be stressed. Any CS payment, or palimony payment, that arrives late will create stress, and conflict.

Let the law dictate CS, and palimony, and you decide where you can live AND accumulate savings. It isn't in your childrens best interests to hear you stall creditors or to have you on edge worried about bills and supporting your self in retirement.

AD,

I've tried not to say too much here, but I read your threads, and I just feel I must now.

You need a lawyer. You need legal advice. It's clear from your comments and the suppositions you are relating to us that you really have very little idea of how to go about getting the D done in the best way for the kids. You are trying to do it all yourself, with advice from us....and you are going to...well, possibly get very screwed. You're very reluctant to really hear the advice here....that's ok...we're strangers. That's why you need a LAWYER. You need that legal advice, friend. You need to hear it.

She should not be stepping one foot in your home, if you dont want her to. Unfortunately, none of this is going well because you will not establish, and maintain NC.

At 2:46 pm, you posted here that you were debating whether to answer her...several people had already advised not to. At 2:59, you posted the (wayyyyy too long) response you sent her.

I'm swinging a mild 2x4 because I am concerned for you. You do not know what you don't know. We can't possibly cover it all here, and you are too emotionally involved to make the best decisions. The hardest decision has been made....to divorce.

Now, you REALLY NEED that unemotional third party....not just a mediator, but an attorney. It sounds like you are reluctant to do so, in fear of pissing WW off. It sounds like you are fearful of obtaining a better custody situation for the kids for fear of pissing WW off. If your emotions are keeping you from keeping those babies from being exposed to more topless pics, or worse, then you really must get someone IRL that can help you do that.

If the situation changes later, custody issues can be modified. You are trying to be too "fair" here. And you will get screwed.

Again....all of this is meant with the best intentions.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 6:43 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)]

^^^^^This

If you were granted custody, you do realize that you can send the kids over more if you so feel, right? It just becomes that YOU will decide what is in the children's best interests.

Lawyer!

If you think your STBXWW hasn't consulted an attorney, you're lying to yourself.

*YOU* need to consult an attorney for professional legal advice. He'll be your advocate when (if/when) Mediation breaks down.

Knowledge is power!

I was really afraid to even call a lawyer.

I did not want to upset him, or make him think I didn't trust him, or that I was un-loyal. I was the "good" wife, just like I was the "good" gf that ignored the parade of red flags.

But my wonderful father pointed out to me, I was not thinking straight. I needed legal advice to protect MY KIDS.

AD, your kids need you to do this. They need to know that you consulted lawyers so you could understand fully the ramifications of any decisions that would effect them until emancipated.

Please, AD, listen to us who have walked this path before you.

Thanks, Everyone,

I do have a very good highly recommended attorney whom I consult with and I have all along. She knows I am going the mediation route but will file with her if it breaks down.

In any case I will sign nothing without my attorney looking it over to make sure I am not getting a raw deal and that the legal language is clear and binding.

I fully expect mediation to break down when she realizes she is not going to dictate or get everything she wants. Fine. Then we will litigate. It will be unfortunate, but I do believe I am holding all the cards if it goes that way.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:56 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough.

Your lack of understanding about the "abandonment of the house" issue...you lack of clarity as to whether or not (definitively) you'd receive spousal support...the opinions youve stated on these two issues alone sound like you have not really gone into depth with the lawyer.

Not to mention custody. A good lawyer would be advising you to seek primary custody, AND would have already instructed you on how to keep careful records of all that happens, especially with regards to her and the kids.

You stated in one post that she is a good mother, and the kids need her. I'm confused about that statement...you yourself have been shocked at some of the things that have happened...I.e., topless pics. Perhaps she WAS a good mother. Perhaps she one day will be again. But she is not who you keep thinking she it.

Having a lawyer will ultimately save you money. If an entire agreement is drawn up with the mediator, and you are still showing it to an attorney, and presumably paying the attorney....then you are paying twice.

I know you shy away from the word "litigate" regarding divorce. I really do not think you understand what that means. It sounds like, in your head, you imagine that to be ugly and time consuming.

I won't urge you again to have an attorney handle this....you've heard it from plenty if people, not just me. But I think you're here because you know that we've all been through it, and have some pretty good advice.

I just hate to see you running around in circles...which it sounds like you are. You won't go NC, and you still sound way too worked up about her reactions to all this, than in getting what's best for the kids.

Good luck.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 8:43 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

In any case I will sign nothing without my attorney looking it over to make sure I am not getting a raw deal and that the legal language is clear and binding.

Just want to point out that avoiding a RAW deal doesn't necessarily mean you got the BEST deal possible. AD, you are making a business deal that will affect you and your children for MANY years, long after you have detached and BOTH you and yoru STBXW have moved on to other relationships. Some lawyers will do what you say because you are the client even if it's not what they recommend. So here is what I did to make sure I didn't screw myself because I was emotional. I told the lawyer up front what I thought I wanted to do and then asked her to give me straight answers on if I could get more or get less and to call me out when I was giving up more than I should or not asking for enough. I essentially told her to NOT allow me to screw myself over.

The advice I received was let her get me the best deal possible and I could always freely give my STBXW more if I chose to in the future but I wouldn't be legally obligated to do so.

The eye opener or "snap out of it moment" for me was her telling me that at some point in the future I WILL be in another relationship(s) and legally obligating myself to giving more now WOULD have an effect on me later when I was no longer emotionally attached to her. Oddly enough I got the same advice here on SI so I listened to the L. I am glad I did.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:10 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough.

I agree. At this point, AD, any discussion about the divorce your stbx initiates should be met with crickets, "We'll discuss that in mediation," or "Have your lawyer contact mine."

Seriously, this back-and-forth nonsense has to stop. You're going to inadvertently screw yourself in an effort to ...what? Be the nice guy?

Haven't you learned that you can't nice her back yet?

YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK.

(I really think that, in the back of your mind, you still are holding out hope for this.)

I learned the hard and expensive way you can't mediate with certain people.

They lie, they stonewall, they bully and manipulate, and talk in circles wasting everyone's time. In the end they won't do what is agreed upon.

THAT happened to me.

It stopped when I hired a lawyer, and let the lawyer do the work. The lawyer had the skill and wisdom to get me the settlement that would serve the kids the best. He had the experience....been through this process many times verses my one time. Plus lawyers aren't an emotional mess and vulnerable to manipulation or falling into old patterns of behavior.....like YOU are right now. (said very gently)

I did not have a trial.

Once I gave up the idea of mediating....the divorce went so much better.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 10:58 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

I think the Home expenses come to around 4,000 a month.

Take the child support which you are owed. However, can you imagine the *resentment* you will feel knowing you NEED her money every month to make ends meet? Waiting for her to deposit $$ so you can write the checks out so your credit history doesn't become as unrepairable as your heart?

Money is the ultimate control.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 11:13 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

Thanks, Everyone,

PLEASE rest assured, if mediation does not go well (I don't expect it will)--whether she starts balking or it seems in any way that I am not getting the best deal for myself and our children, I WILL go and simply file with my attorney.

I have all my paperwork filled out given by my attorney. She is ready should mediation fail.

AD...WHY do you think she will do anything that is in the best interest of the children? She took them to see the OM..before the D was even filed(yes?)...the same OM your poor little boy knows about now...thanks to the dirty pic and text he saw on his mom's phone. This shows a blatant lack of care and concern for your kids. It is abusive. Actually,she's been abusive all along..the lying..stringing the kids along..playing with their emotions...leaving them..she is abusive. She doesn't have to hit them to be abusive. The scars she is leaving on their hearts..on their souls,will last a lifetime.

You *want* a good co-parenting relationship with her. Of course you do. But you can't have that with a mother who thumbs her nose at her kids' well being.

Im glad that you've decided if mediation doesn't go well,you will go through the courts.

You're a nice guy,AD. You deserve to be happy and safe. So do your kids...and sometimes kids need protection from their parents. In this case,you must protect your kids.

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:54 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough

.

I agree. At this point, AD, any discussion about the divorce your stbx initiates should be met with crickets, "We'll discuss that in mediation," or "Have your lawyer contact mine."

Seriously, this back-and-forth nonsense has to stop. You're going to inadvertently screw yourself in an effort to ...what? Be the nice guy?

Haven't you learned that you can't nice her back yet?

YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK.

(I really think that, in the back of your mind, you still are holding out hope for this.)

Agreeing with solus here. To back up a bit, you do realize, in regards to her e-mail to you, that she is trying to manipulate/threaten you, right? When my H was in his A he told me basically, "you better take what I'm offering you, because it's more than a judge will give you if you try and take this through the courts." The lawyer I consulted me at that point told me to call his bluff, because the ONLY reason he would have to say that, is if he was scared of the outcome. If he would give me MORE than a judge would, then why would he be so against me taking it through the courts? It doesn't make sense. Your wife wants the upper hand and she is trying to manipulate you into what she wants. If you are consulting with an A in mediation that you fully expect to fail, then you are wasting money. It makes no sense. Why are you so set on mediation?

Thanks for your thoughts/advice today. I will look them over carefully and respond soon.

Just received the first draft of the MSA. It looks like crap. There was all sorts of stuff that seemed in direct contradiction to what we discussed in mediation, no mention of other subjects, and stuff that was outright untrue. For example, it said we both forego spousal support. We never even GOT to spousal support!

Pisses me off. More reasons to fight with the STBXWW.

And this mediator is lauded as the best, training many other mediators in the county.

I hope that MSA will help you to see why you need a lawyer. Who is working for YOU and the KIDS. You've said several times you don't expect mediation to work...you're seeing that come to life...why wait?

What, really, is stopping you from getting that lawyer and getting that done? You don't have to answer here...just answer it to yourself. A lawyer does not mean either one of you will necessarily spend one day in court. I didn't.

Meanwhile, while you think the MSA is "crap", WW probably thinks it's great.

If the mediator is including stuff you guys never even got to talking about? Well....I'd be spending my precious time and money with an attorney who will not only draft the agreement I want, but will then do the negotiating.

We went to 'the best' and most highly recommended mediator, as well. It was a waste of time and money. She was totally unprepared to deal with a now-xh who was not willing to budge on what HE felt was 'fair.' His fair, of course, was to screw me over yet again. Forget mediation, visit your attorney.

I just wanted to add....

No, this does NOT mean "more reasons to fight with STBXWW". You should not be fighting with her at all. That is why you get an attorney.

As I noted ages ago, though, it sounds like there is something in you that needs to maintain connection with your WW....even if negative. You still haven't gone NC. Having a lawyer will make NC much easier, especially when you get a parenting plan put in place.

And perhaps that's where you are struggling....still unwilling to go NC and call it a day on the marriage. No criticism intended on that. MANY of us went way too long before getting the hang of NC. I completely get how hard that is. But I know for me, my healing could only BEGIN once I went NC. And having the lawyer do all the work for the D helped me to detach as well.

So, I hope you can take this next big step and get yourself the representation you need, which will help to give you the space from WW that you need. And, having the attorney will speed up the process....and you need never meet with WW again to discuss/argue anything.

but I do believe I am holding all the cards if it goes that way.

Magical thinking...

More reasons to fight with the STBXWW.

Emotional thinking...

[This message edited by ladies_first at 10:37 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client." ~Abraham Lincoln