SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sadly, they were in fact trying to get pregnant. This has been one of the hardest parts to comprehend. As she explains now, she was 100% certain she would be filing for divorce. In her (damaged) mind, this pregnancy wasn't going to change anything because she was already out the door.

That is a pretty massive decision to make while only knowing a man for two months and still being married with two kids. What was her plan for your kids? It sounds like she was planning on leaving all of you?

That is a pretty massive decision to make while only knowing a man for two months and still being married with two kids. What was her plan for your kids? It sounds like she was planning on leaving all of you?

She thought that nothing would change on my part. That I'd be hopping around the country and around the world and working longer hours even when I was home. That I'd see the kids just as often when divorced than I had for the last two years. She wasn't thinking of leaving our boys behind, though. She was going to take them with her. Part of her fantasy world included the statement that I could see the kids "whenever I wanted." She had no clue that in my state the court starts with joint custody and makes adjustments from there. Nothing would have likely shifted the court in either direction. Obviously, she wasn't thinking and admits as much now.

SAF, I think you are trapped by your feelings of guilt for the condition of the marriage prior to the affair, and I think that this guilt is preventing you from getting in touch with your righteous indignation with this scenario and drawing some pretty clear lines in the sand.

I did this with my Ex's first affair, and it had disastrous consequences.

Truth is, she had many opportunities to do things other than to have an affair. She could have drawn her own lines in the sand and told you how she felt and what would happen if things didn't change. She could have pushed for MC. She could have left and filed for divorce. Instead, she chose the most selfish and hurtful thing she could do, and put a cherry on top by deliberately getting pregnant with the OM.

Do you see how very broken this is? She didn't have the respect to give you an opportunity to work with her to fix things. Not only that, but she made sure she had a soft place to land at your expense. And I raise this not so that you will have empathy for her, but so you get in touch with yourself and stand up and say, "Hey, this wasn't and isn't right."

She has a great deal of work to do on herself. She is still thinking about herself and the OM, not about you or the COM.

As I have mentioned before, my ex traveled extensively also. I was at home, holding down a full time job, raising two children and doing it all on my own. I didn't have an affair.

Stop feeling guilty about this. Look at it this way--for the sake of discussion, let us assume that the condition of the marriage and the affair are equally hurtful. You bear zero responsibility for the affair. For the sake of discussion, let us say that the condition of the marriage is an equal responsibility. That leaves your WW holding the bag for 75% of the mess to your 25%.

Is she doing anywhere near to 75% of the work?

Get in touch with your indignation. The decisions you make now have long lasting repercussions. Get an amino and then legal advice. You need both to be able to move forward. And most importantly, watch her actions. We tend to hear a lot of words from unremorseful way wards--their actions tell their true intent.

Cat

I'm wondering where you are getting the information that the OM was all up to starting a family AND taking on two kids not his own?

Is this information coming from your WW or from emails from the OM?

I'm cynical to a fault. I don't know of too many women with a golden vagina that makes a single man accept all this when the woman is married to someone else.

Sometimes guys say the darndest things just to get sex. Could this be the situation with you?

k9

SAF, I think you are trapped by your feelings of guilt for the condition of the marriage prior to the affair, and I think that this guilt is preventing you from getting in touch with your righteous indignation with this scenario and drawing some pretty clear lines in the sand.

I do feel guilty about the condition of our marriage prior to the affair. At first, I internalized the problem and blamed myself for the affair. This was helped along by seeing emails from her friends which said things like, "Well, what did he expect?"

This is probably the area in which I've made the most progress. After reading stuff here and talking with others I now realize that while I probably should feel guilt about the marriage, SHE (and the OM) bear all the guilt for the affair.

Truth is, she had many opportunities to do things other than to have an affair. She could have drawn her own lines in the sand and told you how she felt and what would happen if things didn't change. She could have pushed for MC. She could have left and filed for divorce. Instead, she chose the most selfish and hurtful thing she could do, and put a cherry on top by deliberately getting pregnant with the OM.

You're totally right on the mark. I confess that she did mention MC a while ago. She wasn't specific...more like, "Do you think we should see a MC?" Shame on me for not seeing that this was a cry for help. I wish she had told me where she was and why she thought we needed it. But I can't totally blame her for that. I should have realized that even asking the question meant that something was seriously wrong.

Is she doing anywhere near to 75% of the work?

Nope. But I bet she thinks she is.

Get an amino and then legal advice.

I wish we could do the paternity test today. Unfortunately, it looks like we have at least a month to go before it's possible. Legal advice...well, there's no need to wait on that.

You're awesome, Cat. Thanks for looking out for me.

I'm wondering where you are getting the information that the OM was all up to starting a family AND taking on two kids not his own?

Is this information coming from your WW or from emails from the OM?

Unfortunately, my WW has had playdates with the OM and the kids. At least once or twice they went to playground together. He had a chance to play dad for a few hours. He likes the kids and (wow, this hurts) they like him.

My info comes from emails from my WW to other parties. Unfortunately, I have almost no access to communication between my WW and the OM. I really have no reason to doubt that all of this was their ill-conceived plan. Pun not intended.

Unfortunately, my WW has had playdates with the OM and the kids. At least once or twice they went to playground together. He had a chance to play dad for a few hours. He likes the kids and (wow, this hurts) they like him.

SAF, please don't let that hurt. Your kids are just babies. They will like ANYONE who is nice to them. The teens who babysit my kids from time to time love my kids, and my kids love them. It doesn't mean that they see those teens as replacements for me. Furthermore, of course the OG likes the kids. He gets to enjoy them during a fun time. How much will he like them when they are vomiting all over the place? How much will he enjoy changing dirty diapers? How much fun will they be when they spend all day arguing about the most ridiculous things?

Yeah. The reality of children will burst that bubble VERY quickly. Please see that. It's NOT a competition. You are their dad. Even when my ex cheated on me, one of the first things my dad said to me was, "No matter what, he will always be their father." Even if I meet the best guy in the world who loves my kids, he will never take the place of their biological father.

Frankly, I don't think you're going to have to worry about that. From what you've posted, the OG sounds so immature that life with children is going to make him go running. It sounds cute right now, but the day-to-day care can be a grind even with the best of parents. This dude? He's thinking with his genitalia right now and giving your WW the sweet words she wants to hear. If he actually proves to be a decent and involved parent to any of the children involved, that will be a first.

Wow. She has you snowed and bamboozled.

He offering MC wasn't a "Cry for help" it was her throwing out ideas so that she doesn't have to give up her best of both worlds situation.

She is "Sorry" for NOTHING. She is not Sorry she chose to have an A, she is not sorry she got pregnant with OM's child, and she certainly is not sorry that she has hurt you beyond measure, and destroyed her family.

She is very selfish, and very focused on herself. If I were in your position, I would seriously step back, and draw some firm lines in the sand. The first of which would be ending all contact with OM from this point forward. She want's him involved with the kid fine. That goes through you. You send emails updating the progress of the pregnancy, and YOU take control over what he is going to be allowed to do and not do. When she balks on this, which she will then you send her packing.

Yes you emotionlessly tell her you deserve far more from a wife, and until she is ready to provide you the love, respect and understanding you deserve she is not welcome in your home. Period. End of sentence.

Your fear of loosing her, and what you have is so skewed it's visible from space. She is gone. She is choosing to have both of you now, and as long as you allow it, she will continue.

She needs a big harsh dose of reality to come to her senses.

If you are happy to be a choice in your M then fine, continue like you have been. One last thought, "you have forgiven her". No sorry there, but you haven't even fully accepted what she has done, you do not have a complete understanding of the situation, therefor forgiveness is incomplete. You may have made a choice to forgive, but true real forgiveness is a long way down this road of R.

The sooner you bust her out of her fog, the sooner you can start heading down that road.

You deserve much much more. Quit blaming yourself for providing for your family. That is just bullshit. Pull up your big boy pants, and demand the respect you deserve.

(((and strength)))

Oh, and do not allow your WW the opportunity to focus on the long-standing marital issues before the affair and her sole choices are addressed.

Your marriage is a patient brought into the ER (counseling), bleeding profusely with a badly broken limb requiring surgery, a concussion and a raging case of poison ivy.

The ER will address things in order of their severity: bleeding (affair), surgery on the broken arm (affair), concussion (marital issues) and poison ivy (marital issues). If the ER focuses on anything but the bleeding at first, the patient (marriage) won't make it. While the two of you should address marital issues if you choose to reconcile, you must stabilize the patient first. This is going to require a great deal of patience, empathy and understanding from your WW--qualities that she is not showing right now.

Stand your ground on this. You must not allow her to use marital issues as an excuse to dodge the things she must do if she is serious about reconciliation.

Cat

Great post, Tushie,

SAF--re-read her post. She is spot on.

Cat

I know of a family where this happened. Husband got another lady pregnant while married with one child. The couple stayed married & have joint custody of the baby. They also had another baby of their own. I am not saying it is easy, but others have done it. You both would need to be "All In". and I would suggest getting an VERY good marriage counselor. Boundaries will have to be set & strictly adhered to. Your wife would have to go above & beyond to make you feel "safe" in the marriage when contact with the OM would be frequent.

Whatever you decide I wish you peace...

"demand the respect you deserve." or at least work on deserving the respect. You seem like a parent that lets his child play in the street. At some point permissiveness becomes abuse if it allows or enables someone to completely destroy themselves.

I don't understand how a parent would not be laser focused on the state of mind of someone interacting daily with my children rather than this make believe delusion an adult spouse is engaging in.

That's your reality. You, your job and your kids. That's what you build on. At least, I would hope that would be the focus.

I'm with Catwoman in that my ex travelled extensively for his career too. I was at home raising two kids on my own, being moved for his career every two years, never having many friends or many roots, always feeling lonely and neglected, begging my ex for attention, asking to go to therapy, always getting the brush off from him.

I never once thought to cheat on him. Never. I was married and I loved him.

Her choice to cheat had nothing to do with you being gone. That is something broken inside of her…and sounds like she has some really crappy friends who think that is the way to solve her problems.

Her offering MC wasn't a "Cry for help" it was her throwing out ideas so that she doesn't have to give up her best of both worlds situation.

Her suggestion of counseling happened 18 months ago, well before the affair. She had no "both worlds" back then. It was her attempt to address a problem I didn't know we had. Unfortunately, she didn't really tell me what those problems were. Even though she didn't push for it like I wish she had, I still regret not pursuing it back then.

She is "Sorry" for NOTHING. She is not Sorry she chose to have an A, she is not sorry she got pregnant with OM's child, and she certainly is not sorry that she has hurt you beyond measure, and destroyed her family.

She says she's sorry and she means it. Problem is, she has no idea what she is sorry for. She doesn't see that I've been hurt beyond measure. She doesn't see that our family has been damaged. I think she believes that she has simply hurt my feelings and created a big mess. Until she really understands what she has done an apology doesn't mean a whole lot. Same thing with the OM. At some point he and I are going to have to meet. I told my WW that if he apologizes I'd punch him in the face. He definitely has no concept of the damage that has been done. He has no right or standing to apologize until he understands.

One last thought, "you have forgiven her". No sorry there, but you haven't even fully accepted what she has done, you do not have a complete understanding of the situation, therefor forgiveness is incomplete. You may have made a choice to forgive, but true real forgiveness is a long way down this road of R.

You're right about this one. I totally jumped the gun before even understanding or fully grasping the situation. I was in panic and preservation mode. What will need to happen to save this thing? Oh yeah, I have to forgive her. OK, check! Now I see that she has to meet me halfway before I can truly forgive. My statement of forgiveness means nothing if she doesn't understand the totality of what it is I'm forgiving.

Yes you emotionlessly tell her you deserve far more from a wife, and until she is ready to provide you the love, respect and understanding you deserve she is not welcome in your home. Period. End of sentence.

I know I should say this. I wish I were ready to say it. She needs to hear it. We have counseling on Friday. I'll build up my strength for that.

You seem like a parent that lets his child play in the street.

I do. We live at a dead end.

Seriously, though - point taken.

You keep getting hung up on small nuances and are not looking at the big picture.

She says she's sorry and she means it. Problem is, she has no idea what she is sorry for. She doesn't see that I've been hurt beyond measure. She doesn't see that our family has been damaged. I think she believes that she has simply hurt my feelings and created a big mess. Until she really understands what she has done an apology doesn't mean a whole lot.

Therefore is she doesn't understand what she is saying sorry for, she can't possibly be sorry. She is only sorry, and may mean it for creating a mess.

She is still not all in. Someone who is truly sorry is jumping through flaming hoops, while juggling, and asking if there is anything else they can do to make it better.

Dude she is a long long way from that. Trust us.

Stand up for yourself.

As far that the offer of MC, your prior post that I referred inferred that is was a post outing statement. Whatever.

She is broken, very broken, and until she starts to fix herself, and have a good understanding of what is broken and why, then R is pointless.

Being Lonely, or you were being a provider is not her why, and if she says it is, you need call bullshit on it.

You need to find your anger, it will give you strength.

No person deserves this, and your children deserve at least one parent who has their head on straight. Have you figured out why you are willing to accept less? Don't let fear of the unknown drive your decisions. It will bite you in the ass.

She says she's sorry and she means it. Problem is, she has no idea what she is sorry for. She doesn't see that I've been hurt beyond measure. She doesn't see that our family has been damaged. I think she believes that she has simply hurt my feelings and created a big mess.

...not much to work with here. ^^^

TushNurse is 100% right. Once you let go of the guilt you have, I think you will see things more clearly. (BTW, this is not an appeal to your intellect, as you requested, but your emotions. Guilt is an emotion. It's clouding your judgement at a critical time.

Her horrible choices (not mistakes) were intentional. She has no remorse. But, now she's in a mess. Are you thinking that she is changing her views (wanting to D you, wanting to get pregnant by this OG, etc.) because you have become more present in the M and have doubled down? Or, is it any port in a storm, even your port which she was preparing to never revisit?

Has it hit you that she intentionally had unprotected sex with her boyfriend and was trying her best to become pregnant so they could start a new life together? All this before she ever told you she wanted a divorce or even that your marriage was in trouble!

Has it hit you that she hasn't committed to your reconciling your marriage after the damage she has done? She is not sorry. Not truly, gut-wrenchingly sorry for what she has done.

Why does she feel it is still OK to send "I love yous" to her boyfriend (as of last week, according to your posts)? He isn't blocked from her phone/email/facebook/etc -- WHY not?

She is either all in with you or she is not.

It sounds like she is not... every time you post, and in all the justifications for her behavior, her emotions (PLANNED pregnancy), etc, it becomes clearer just how 'not in' she is.

****Her planning to get pregnant by her new boyfriend flies in the face of her claiming to have 'just discovered' her pregnancy after she told you about her infidelity. She knew that was a probability when she told you of the affair.

Hey Strange. Not going to jump in on your thorough ass kicking. I want to know how you are doing. Where 's your head at today?

I'm sorry you have to deal with the fact that she has involved your kids with this sleezbag on playdates.

If you talk to L make sure you find out if you can use this aginst her and try for full custody. She has shown some very poor judgment when it comes to their welfare.

Also make sure you don't move out and don't. Let her move kids out of the family home until you have spoken with L and know what benefits you and kids.

I'm cynical like k94 though and feel its plausible that she has overblown his interest in family and her. Many OW build up the fantasy in their heads cuz it helps them further justify their behavior.

Again I'm so sorry you and ypur kids have to go thru this. Its a terrible situation for you all..