SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I told my WW that if she is trying to work things out with me that all flirtation with the OM had to stop. She can flirt with him, but if she does then she has to leave. She gets that, at least.

She doesn't get it though. You had to say it again. Which means she didn't get it the first time.

What has she been doing to convince you she wants to be in this marriage?

I am reposting this to clear up the massive confusion that seems to have taken over the thread.

I told my WW that if she is trying to work things out with me that all flirtation with the OM had to stop. She can flirt with him, but if she does then she has to leave. She gets that, at least.

Emphasis added for purposes of clarity.

....yeah, we get that. But after you said this ^^^ You said this:

I know they flirt, called her out on it and set my conditions as stated above.

And then you went on to say how silly we were (in so many words) that you insist on NC with the OM.

THIS is wishy-washy on your part. And this is a disrespectful UNREMORSFUL wayward spouse, on your wife's part. Just because she's "there" and things are going along "eerily normal" does NOT point in the direction of good or looking up. This points in the direction of a BS who is clinging to nothing but hope.

You keep playing along with their (OM and your wife's) little charade and you are going to come out on the losing end of this deal. You have NO idea what they are discussing at work. The only information you are getting is from two confirmed LIARS.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 2:19 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]

What's with the word "flirt"? Flirting is something that is done in the beginning of an attraction. Your wife and her boyfriend are way beyond flirting. I'd say they are most likely plotting.

[This message edited by cissi at 2:37 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]

You said she doesn't want to keep him out, then she is not fighting for your marriage. Can I ask or suggest something: have her read all these remarks and comments on this thread. Why? To show her how people think and react and to maybe help her see a different point. If she won't, that would be a red flag to me.

Flirting in the workplace? How old are they, 13? If this nonsense is still going on she needs to be careful. This could cause a ton of HR problems and she may end up without a job there regardless of location. Especially if the OM decides to go to a superior on his own and turn it around on her should he decide to cause trouble out of his frustration.

I'm sure other employees have noticed and may lodge complaints if any ongoing inappropriate behavior gets too distracting.

Is she still in love with her AP? When is the last time she told him that she loves him? Does your W have personal (intimate, but non flirting) conversations with her AP at work?

Banning flirting? Isn't that a bit like banning kissing while they're having sex?

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 8:42 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]

I somehow doubt that in 14 years my older son, who is now 3 years old, will come to me and say, "Dad, when I was three and you found out about mom's affair, why didn't you divorce her right away? Why did you fight for three whole months to try to save the marriage and the family? I learned then at a young age how weak you were and I've never recovered. Also, I doubt I will ever have a healthy relationship with my future spouse. Three months?! Really, dad?" Maybe I'm gambling with their lives. Shame on me if I am. But I'm really trying to look out for them, too. Honest.

As someone who lived in a home with abuse and infidelity when I was a toddler, you're severely underestimating the effect the atmosphere of your home has on your children. In fact, they are at a very formidable age, and this negativity is having a VERY negative influence on them.

Please don't assume that because their vocabulary isn't as expansive as yours that they aren't developing based on their surroundings. They are.

I somehow doubt that in 14 years my older son, who is now 3 years old, will come to me and say, "Dad, when I was three and you found out about mom's affair, why didn't you divorce her right away? Why did you fight for three whole months to try to save the marriage and the family? I learned then at a young age how weak you were and I've never recovered. Also, I doubt I will ever have a healthy relationship with my future spouse. Three months?! Really, dad?" Maybe I'm gambling with their lives. Shame on me if I am. But I'm really trying to look out for them, too. Honest.

As someone who lived in a home with abuse and infidelity when I was a toddler, you're severely underestimating the effect the atmosphere of your home has on your children. In fact, they are at a very formidable age, and this negativity is having a VERY negative influence on them.

Please don't assume that because their vocabulary isn't as expansive as yours that they aren't developing based on their surroundings. They are.

The OP wrote:

What's done is done. I have decided not to draw a retroactive line in the sand. I told her what I need from her now and moving forward. Some people would call it quits after any incident of cheating no matter what. That's fine. I respect whatever decisions others make within their lives and marriages.

Stick to this. There are folks here who have suffered a great deal of pain and who are pushing for a simple course of action (toss your wife out) because of that pain.

Respect their point of view, but IGNORE their advice. Every case is different. You have to decide what you are going to do.

Right now I think you can do nothing until the paternity test comes back. At that point things will become very much more clear. If the child is yours, you have only to deal with your wife and all sorts of things become possible. If the child is not yours, then you have to go forward from there.

One point: however the paternity tests work out, the problem is still going to be the OM. Unless your wife commits to breaking contact with him, your marriage will end up in the toilet, or so I think.

Stick to this. There are folks here who have suffered a great deal of pain and who are pushing for a simple course of action (toss your wife out) because of that pain.

respectfully, I don't think that anyone has said to simply throw her out. People are saying that she isn't remorseful, and that without remorse there is no possibility of a positive outcome staying with an unremorseful spouse.

Paternity, imo, is irrelevant. If she was not pregnant, and was not remorseful, would anyone say to stick around? Then how is the paternity test relevant? She isn't remorseful. Therefore, the same advice stands - it won't work. She is in daily contact with AP, and shows no remorse.

No offense, but I think blaming the pain of others is a bit of a cop out. We're all hurt. The advice to all isn't 'leave'. This is a very unremorseful WS. No one says that is a good thing.

I'm not sure where your conclusions came from, but I couldn't disagree more. The members of this site do not, for the most part, say to leave in all circumstances. We do, however, say that an unremorseful spouse isn't worth the time of day. This particular WS is beyond unremorseful.

I think you've done the members here that have given solid, thought out advice a disservice by dismissing their advice because they've been hurt. It may only be my opinion, but that's what it is.

This is a very difficult situation. I've changed my mind several times about it and may change again.

We have an OM who may or may not be the father of the pregnant W's child. He and W have had an affair and may still be having one. W says that he is not great father material and there is some doubt about her willingness to let him be the father of her child.

Of course, the exact paternity of the child is not yet known. It could belong to the OM or it could belong to the OP.

The wife seems to feel that the best solution is to stay married to the OP who would then father all the children while she continues a relationship with the OM.

That is not a popular view with the OP. He would rather father all the children and stick with his wife, but is not willing to accept an ongoing affair as the price for this.

What should he do? If he divorces his wife, he will lose 50% of his time with his kids, even the unborn child. If the child is the OP's, this hurts. But in any case he loses contact with his kids. It is likely that if there is a divorce his wife will move in with the OM, who then gets to father the OP's children. So divorce really hurts him badly.

If he does not divorce, he gets to be with his kids (and possibly the new child as well) full time, but at the cost of having to live with an ongoing affair.

It is a no win situation if I ever saw one. Divorce and the kids lose. Stay with his wife and he loses.

If the new child is not his, things become a bit easier, but not by too much.

My point? Don't offer glib solutions without taking all the ramifications into account. It is enough to drive a sober man to drink.

One point: however the paternity tests work out, the problem is still going to be the OM. Unless your wife commits to breaking contact with him, your marriage will end up in the toilet, or so I think.

The main problem isn't the OM. The main problem is the WW.

The marriage is already in the toilet, it can't get ay further in. She hasn't committed to NC. She hasn't committed to the marriage at all. She hasn't shown any remorse as far as SAF has posted. And she has barely registered regret. She tried getting pregnant with OM. She still flirts with him at work. She is still in a fog.

I don't know that the advice has been to ditch her. The advice has been to create some consequences for her actions. If she continues down this path of being non-remorseful, then the only thing to do is divorce her. That is how consequences work.

Sidney, no offense, but that isn't a point, it's a rational for saying there is no good outcome. Telling OP to avoid all advice because others here have been hurt is not only a cop out, it insults the intelligence of the posters that have given thoughtful advice.

May I ask, what is your background. Your history here is only that of advice giver. Are you a BS, a WS, neither, or both? It would be interesting to see what side of the aisle you are coming from. None of your prior posts give any indication to that.

Thanks

I've followed this post from the beginning. I am/was a BS. I just want to say how impressed I am how far you've come in three very short months, and how much you must be hurting right now while waiting on the results. No matter what the outcome is, I promise you this will get easier. You will hurt less. I know you aren't moving as fast as some would like. At times I'm included on that. But its "easy" for me to tell you that when I'm almost 3 years out. At 3 months I don't know if I had stopped randomly crying in public yet, let alone was able to decide what to do. Good luck to you sir. You will do what is best for your family once you can see what that is. I believe that.

One point: however the paternity tests work out, the problem is still going to be the OM. Unless your wife commits to breaking contact with him, your marriage will end up in the toilet, or so I think.

The main problem isn't the OM. The main problem is the WW.

Exactly.

The problem in this marriage is the WW. Not the OP. Unless and until the WW has an attitude adjustment, these problems are going to continue. It won't matter if it's this OP, another OP or just the overall disrespect she has for her BS and her marriage.

PATERNITY should be a NON ISSUE. Yes, in a perfect world, it would be nice if the child was biologically the BS's. But the chances of this seem to be very slim.

The BS has agreed to raise this child as HIS OWN regardless of what any DNA test may show. He has offered his WW a huge gift by doing this. (IMHO) and in the eyes of the law (in most states) since they are a married couple, this child will (assumed to) be a product of the marriage.

BUT, this plan will all blow up if the WW and OP continue contact and their affair. She will tell him about the baby, he will want to see the baby, be a part of the baby's life, etc. Then sooner or later, there will be a big fight and he will sue for paternity, visitation, etc. The baby being a product of the marriage will have gone out the window because of continued contact. He will use this information against you and your WW in court.

The ONLY way this plan will work is if the BS and the WW are a UNITED FRONT and there is NC established with the OP.

Right now with the state of her attitude, I wouldn't even share the DNA results with your WW. If she is still in a relationship with the OP (and she obviously is) he will be the first person she tells.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:31 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

This is my concern also: the WW tells her AP about the paternity results and if the news is that her BS is not the biological father, the AP will then push to have contact with the child. Legally, if the child is then found to be his, he can sue for custody/visitation (and of course be required to pay child support) and be a constant presence in the marriage. This bodes ill for this marriage surviving.

The problem is that the WW has either not been given an ultimatum (cease all non-work related contact with AP or leave) AND she is continuing to insert him in their marriage.

As another poster observed, the plan to raise the OC in the marriage ONLY works if the WW and the BS are a UNITED front. Unfortunately they are anything but. Not only is non-business contact continuing, but the BS's boundary is "no flirting." A non-remorseful WW is going to take that as a green light. And it appears, from what is related here, that she has.

My opinion? If she tells the AP about the paternity results, I'd end this charade. Yes, it's painful and YES I absolutely HATE sharing the children I brought into this world. Hate it more than anything in the world. But I do THEM a disservice by staying in a relationship where I am disrespected, marginalized and emotionally abused.

Cat

PainfulPast wrote:

Sidney, no offense, but that isn't a point, it's a rational for saying there is no good outcome. Telling OP to avoid all advice because others here have been hurt is not only a cop out, it insults the intelligence of the posters that have given thoughtful advice.

May I ask, what is your background. Your history here is only that of advice giver. Are you a BS, a WS, neither, or both? It would be interesting to see what side of the aisle you are coming from. None of your prior posts give any indication to that.

I truly believe that there is no good way out. Divorce is not what the OP wants and staying in the marriage won't work either for the reasons I went into in my longish post.

I'm not trying to insult the intelligence of anybody. I've seen precious little advice (including mine) on a way out of this.

I have seen folks say that the OP should threaten divorce. That is NOT what the OP wants. He wants to keep his children and NOT share them with the OM. He has stated this several times.

Yes, his wife has shown no real remorse. Why should she? If they do not divorce, the OP gets to support her and the children -- especially if she loses her job. If they do divorce, the OP gets to pay child support while his wife and the OM move in together.

I despair of any rational way out of this. I think that, depending on the paternity tests, the OP will just have to rely on his guts -- while the possibility of him losing his kids remains high.

As for my story, I'll keep it for a while longer. And I'm glad that my previous postings give no hint. That's evidence that I'm succeeding in looking at each case on its own merits and not simply recommending "bumper sticker" solutions to folks.

Sorry accidental post.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 2:54 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

Yes I have heard a few posters say DIVORCE NOW. What the majority of posts say is FILE now. Serve her with papers. There are so many cases that when the BS did this, the WS FINALLY was shocked out of their proverbial fog and began to really get it.

SAF - I give you credit for continuing to come back here and update - even when you know the update isn't going to be favorable to the group. THANK YOU. Just remember, we all have your best interest at heart. Your WW has a lot of work to do on herself and she has yet to do any. That is frustrating to us, and must be so much more incredibly difficult for you.

I understand the difficulties with having her quit her job. My H worked with the MCOW - the difference being, he ended all but work related convo's with her. He shared EVERY convo, email, etc. What happened? She got FIRED. Walked out. And yes, I do believe it had to do with her behavior as she refused to respect my H's pleas to leave him alone - and it was all through company email. WW's are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

I went through almost a year of hell with my H before he 100% got it. My biggest regret: Well, #1 is not finding SI sooner. The 2nd, is not kicking him to the curb so he could see what life without me and his kids was really like. I think my journey would have been cut in half if I had done that.

I'm rambling. Stick around. Just know that at some point, you as the BS needs to take a stand, draw firm lines & boundaries with firm consequences. Your WW needs to start doing the heavy lifting and figuring out her demons. If you/she rugsweep this, there will be little support to be found.

I'm sorry this is such a horrific mess!

As for my story, I'll keep it for a while longer. And I'm glad that my previous postings give no hint. That's evidence that I'm succeeding in looking at each case on its own merits and not simply recommending "bumper sticker" solutions to folks.

T/J~

Sidney...Really?..."bumper sticker" comments? I feel that is rude and condescending.

Whatever buddy.

END T/J