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I was just talking about this with him today, in the context of how he felt his IC was interms of helping him deal with his FOO issues.

The thing is, the gameplan seems to be to stuff them. I'm not privy to the sessions, but I know that his IC encourages him to have ZERO contact with his dad and sister. To me (Codependent alert) this seems drastic, even though they are pretty rude to me. It's part of my worrying that his solution is to push people away when things are emotionally strained.

I'm still learning how to deal with things but have come a long way with my FOO. I constantly have to practice letting go, and to quit projecting what I would do onto them. If that makes sense. Accepting people how they are has always been easy for me, UNLESS I don't like the way they're treating me. That's mine to work on.

I thought Crazz was completely different from my other long term, serious relationships. (The other TWO ) I trusted him more than anyone, and that was a big factor in why I married him.

Same here. Just makes me shake my head. NOW I believe I can trust him because he finally trusts me with himself, but it was a rough road getting here.

ETA: I was H's first and only, until the A. I NEVER doubted him, so it was BEYOND shocking on d-day.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 10:54 PM, April 28th (Monday)]

So I'm keeping on keeping on, right?

Here's yesterday's fun:

"In the interest of communication, I wanted to let you know that I would like to work out in the garage while you are working all day Sunday. I think DD4 is old enough to hang out on her own for a while." ***(Garage work almost always includes very loud tools - ie air compressor and table saw and blasting music. And hands covered in grease. And chemical smells from lots of sprays and paint.)***

R

U

F

K

M

?

?

?

Torrent of stuttering, occasional profanity, and one apology later, I explain that I don't feel that this is the appropriate way to care for a 4 year old and it makes me uncomfortable that he would even ask.

"See, this is why I don't come to you with things."

THEN I get this call today:

"Hey babe! So in the interest of better communication I want to let you know that [some other female coworker] is going on a lunch ride today and I would like to go."

So... you...after last week....and this is.... wait. Just wait. So you think the solution here is to TELL me when you want to hang out with other women. Coming on the HEELS of getting busted the other day.

"But you told me to talk to you when I start resenting you for not being able to do things. See, I can't come to you to talk!!!"

Between hyperventilating at the insane, oxygen deprived parallel universe I keep getting lobbed into, I tried to gently explain that were it not for his ass-dial whoopsie the other day I would have been amenable to this conversation. Having it now? Ironic bordering on vulgar.

Or I'm crazy. Is that it? Am I crazy??? You can tell me.

/vent

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:44 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Oh dear.

(((((((Razzie)))))))

Are you crazy? Pshhh, no. But he is. I vote a name change. No longer CRazz. He's CRazy.

No. You're not crazy.

(((Jrazz)))

4 year alone inside all day.... Um no.

The ONLY time I remember my parents fighting is when my mom went to work and then my dad left the house in the car to go to the hardware store. My mom came home to find me alone watching The Adams Family (that dates me). I was four. My mom went BALLISTIC on my dad when he got home. Oh man. That was 40 years ago and I still remember that.

Sounds like your husband needs to NEVER be alone with another woman. EVER.

Jazz, I don't know what boundaries you have implemented, but it is more than 8years later and my h still does not ever do one on one time with another female. No co workers lunch, nothing. If he can't find another male to join them and call me first, deal breaker. In 8 years, he has not (to my knowledge) busted that boundary. Sometimes I feel bad because he is in a female dominated industry. Then I think too f-ing bad. I used to be cool and he slid down that slippery slope into stupid.

So calling me to tell me he is going to lunch or taking a ride with one female? That's fine, stop by and pick up the hefty bags, because we are done.

Well he's TIRED of that, Dr. pj!

In honesty, there was the option of having another male coworker or two along. I just can't see how that changes things here. In our case, he radiates prince-fucking-charming and women are drawn to him. (Men too - whole other thing.) He was cleared to attend group functions with females there so long as he pinged me - and he got caught not bothering to ping me.

He was always the type of person where if you tell him not to do something, he is compelled to do it just to defy you. He does not appreciate rules, instructions, etc. Oil and water, we are.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:57 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Jrazz, he has no boundaries that are internal to HIM.

So far these are rules that YOU have implemented and this is why it continues to be a problem between you two.

What is he doing, or what does he WANT to do to make the internal changes?

he has no boundaries that are internal to HIM.

That's true for absolutely every aspect of his life. Every single one. Zero boundaries. All impulse and impatience. He thinks he's trustworthy because in this very moment he has no intention to betray. He constructs his own reality around him as he goes, and sees himself exactly how he wants to.

It's always been this way.

So I went and had a kid with him and the whole ballgame changed. She's 4, and he wants to leave her in the house while he putzes in the garage. How in the world would I feel safe splitting custody with this person?

Oh wow

Yes, what TG said.

Not going to really comment on his density. But you gotta watch your own codependency tendencies -- and I know you are!!!!!! -- it's just a reminder, because Crazz is VERY p/a and p/a and CoD go together like peas and carrots. One can feed the other.

((((jrazz))))

But you gotta watch your own codependency tendencies -- and I know you are!!!!!!

Not nearly enough. Totally on spin cycle here.

Authority defiance, mine has that too.

I explained (a lot and loudly) that this was my boundary. It was not a rule, he could do whatever he chose. I, however,was choosing to NOT be married to someone that disrespected me by hanging out in any way shape or form, with another female.

Years in, he started being "charming" to other females when out with friends of ours (h/w), I found out and we separated for several months.

I am not saying you should do the same, just letting you know that for me, if my h wants to take a slide on that slope, he can keep on going.

Would he consider changing IC's and are you guys in MC?

He was cleared to attend group functions with females there so long as he pinged me - and he got caught not bothering to ping me.

Yeah, no. If I found out that my h had done that, we would be back at ground zero. Meaning, no outside activities with any females and only with males that are strong friends of our marriage (short list). This was my initial boundary for over a year. He equated it to a short leash. I equated it to, choose to demonstrate I can trust you or I choose to not be with you.

I see some of the same dynamic that we have:

He does something totally ridiculous, you react, and then he says "see, you're so unreasonable, you don't let me have any fun, you're acting like my mom."

I was unaware that we had this dynamic until the MC called my H on it and said - we'll you're acting like a sullen teenager! You should have seen his face. I occasionally hear the "you're acting like my mom" comments and now I just respond that if he weren't acting like an idiot, I wouldn't have to.

I'm not sure that helps much. You seem to have all the tools (relationship wise), you're just not sure what you want to build.

Best of luck and hang in there.

She's 4, and he wants to leave her in the house while he putzes in the garage.

Yeah. That's bad. As a father I'm on my third 4yo, she turns 4 next week, my question is why not enjoy the time with your daughter. There will be plenty of time whenever to putz around in the garage. Yeah, we all have stuff we WANT to do, but not leaving your 4yo daughter alone should be something that you WANT to do too. Time spent with your child can be just as fun as anything else. And more rewarding too! That's part of being a parent.

I'm painfully aware of this dynamic, and we've had several MC's point this out. I think his IC has either gotten complacent, or he's not giving her a complete picture - I suspect both.

He called to say he wanted to come home and talk.

He came home for lunch, ate his lunch while staring at me folding DD's clothes we got from a friend. Then he went in the garage, drilled some holes in something, went to the side yard and mowed the 5x5 patch of grass, came in... washed the bowl and plate I left in the sink, and then told me he had to go back to work. I was quiet but not ignoring him. I literally tied down my codependency, and believe me she was screaming and wrestling to be cut loose.

So he announced his departure and stared at me some more.

Then he said..... drumroll please....

"What?"

Jesusmaryandjoseph save me.

I said (thanks to you all here) that I thought it would be in his best interest to seek out a new IC as his current one doesn't seem to be helping him so much as enabling him to remain p/a.

He said "Ok great - fine. I'll get a new counselor." In a half-huff half serious tone.

The he said, "Ok... I'm going..."

I said "Goodbye"

He said, "What time is your meeting tonight?"

I said, "5-6 but I have counseling at 3 so you need to pick up DD like we discussed."

He said, "Yeah ok. So I'll give her dinner?"

I said, "Yes, please."

He said, "Ok then. I'm going to head back to work now.

Me: "Ok."

Him, looking exaperated at me, "BYE" and an eyeroll.

This is always been the way of it. How in the world did we last this long. This CoDep/P-A parent/child dynamic is just plain insane.

Oy.

Jrazz - Honey seriously??? He is manipulating you, knowingly or not he is.

You let him go with other women for lunches etc if he just is kind enough to say so, even though he has crappy boundaries? Then he dishonors you by not having the decency, or balls to do even this? While out of town? I think that right there would warrant a week on the couch.

Then This???? He seriously considers leaving a 4 year old alone in the house for more than 15 minutes? ? ? No way. Uhnuh. I mean we know you are super mom, but seriously, he fails to see that this could be extremely dangerous???

Nope not a chance. If he wants to work in the garage he hires a babysitter with his funds.

How in the world would I feel safe splitting custody with this person?

Me thinks this is the issue that is preventing you from moving forward.

Says one obsessively worried mama to another.

I imagine if the safety of little Razzie wasn't at play here, we would see some very different responses to all of this.

If that's true Jrazz...just know you're in the company of many other parents who are simply trying to keep extinction from occurring by keeping their children alive!

180. Engaging in the crazy making isn't making it better for either of you. Detach, regroup and find a babysitter for your little one this weekend so Crazz can get some time in the garage. Figure out how to co-exist in the least stressful way possible until you can decide what the next move is.

TG is right...until Crazz decides for himself what he's willing to do, you're just his parent and he'll decide for himself which of the rules he wants to follow.

This shit ain't easy. But you aren't alone. (((Jrazz)))