SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There was nothing else though, of course, whilst I don't believe the A is ongoing, everything around it could have gone very deep underground.

If her coworker offered to help her last week move her things out of your home into the OM's house, than the affair is still going on.

Otherwise why would the coworker offer this?

I thought your wife didn't like telling others about the affair. Interesting this coworker would offer this help.

Of course! Yr not completely blameless u know!

You are completely blameless for her affairs, they are ALL hers. All of her affairs. And all of her lies about the previous affairs including 1999.

Then again, I only have her word that she was with him that whole evening. I actually think she was, in which case I can only presume she wasn't entirely truthful with him about how she was getting home.

Why didn't you call this gay guy and ask him just that. Was your wife there and why did he make her walk home at 5 am. And what did they do until 5 am...what time do the bars there close.

Just ask him. Your wife has been known to use her friends for cover while she is at the OMs.

Why you talk to her I will never understand. All it gets you are into more arguments and her blaming you.

What SWAT said mate. She still pulls all the strings because she knows you won't take action. She's abused you, and your answer (and I'm not saying it's wrong for you, but she doesn't seem to be getting it) is to wait it out and hope like hell she changes.

My WW was the same (well, she was actually showed some regret), but she still persisted in telling me that her and APs work relationship could continue on in a professional manner and that they could remain in contact. That all stopped the day I dropped signed D papers on the kitchen bench and she knew I was serious.

Losing you doesn't enter their ego-driven heads while they are deep in the A or the post-affair fog. You need to drag your wife into that reality, because God knows what validations she's telling herself to justify this abuse.

Your son also deserves not to hear you both fight and go nowhere every night. Trust me, my heart still breaks when I think of my daughter sitting in her highchair while my fWW and I verbally went at it after work each day. It's a terrible memory, and I hope she forgets it.

There is hope mate, my W and I are in R and things look better everyday.

You sound like you are starting to gather strength though, in light of it all. Hope you had a great Father's Day mate.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 9:11 AM, June 15th (Sunday)]

Craig just gave you some simple steps you could take to learn some facts. Regardless of your time table to take any action, you should still be getting as much information as possible so you are not basing anything on word of someone who lies to you.

Of particular worry is that the neighbor wanted to move her stuff to OM. Why on earth would that be an option if this thing was ended?

I still see, from your perspective, a determination that there's something you can do to ensure that everything will be just like it was pre-affair.

What I don't see is what makes your case that much different from anyone else's case. In fact, yours is more difficult because your wife has no interest in reconciliation.

Add violence to the mix, and you're in a very difficult situation indeed. I don't want to tell you what to do, but I don't see a path here that doesn't include divorce.

Since you're not ready to divorce, just get a VAR and try to 180 her. Her reaction to the bickering indicates that she doesn't see it as an attempt to fix things - she sees it as an attempt to sweep all your problems under the rug. So, in a sense, her reaction is correct.

In her world, affairs and violence are perfectly proper - or at least mostly your fault. That's because you won't hold her accountable and you try to pretend there's still a marriage to save.

I'll reply individually when I get a chance but for now I wanted to ask your opinions on whether I should confront my WW about the text from her work colleague about helping her move out the Saturday she was let out of police custody. I mean, logic says I should but each time I let slip I have seen something very recent, I sense my WW goes further 'undercover'. Texts dry up and I lose the ability to snoop etc (I won't go into why here). Plus I may have misread the date of that text. I need to check. If accurate however, it changes everything.

@craig2001: You're right though - my WW doesn't want anyone to know so why this one person, the mind boggles... Something about this doesn't ring true (what does any more?) though the mention of the OM's name says she's been told at least some of it. I can't help but wonder if - so long as I've got the date right - my WW has spun her friend a line about leaving me/how awful I am etc, without there being any intention to walk out on me again. A mix of anger at me for getting her arrested and attention seeking on an epic scale.

I wanted to ask your opinions on whether I should confront my WW about the text from her work colleague about helping her move out the Saturday she was let out of police custody.

Short answer - no. There is nothing to be gained as far as you are concerned and just gives your WW the heads up. Say nothing. Nada. Schtum. Keep you mouth zipped. Keep your ammo dry.

No time for more. Stealth mode, saveus.

Saveus

I would not confront for the reason you stated . You need all the snooping avenues you can have. And her behavior is so off the charts in so many ways I do not see how anything changes. You need out of this relationship whenever that occurs.

I know you do not believe that there will not be more other men during one of her bar hopping nights out.

You will eventually get more proof of A with someone. The big question here I think for most of us is when you will pull the trigger and give her D papers

I'll reply individually when I get a chance but for now I wanted to ask your opinions on whether I should confront my WW about the text from her work colleague about helping her move out the Saturday

If you ask her, she will know you are looking at her texts. But doesn't she already know this by now.

I really don't know what good it would do you. Ask her. Phrase it like, why did so and so ask you if you needed help moving your things from here to OM house last week.

See what she says.

No bullshit, no asking twice, no listening to excuses.

Watch her face and body language.

If she denies or starts blameshifting how you caused it all. Forget it, she is too immature to even answer a simple question anymore.

DO NOT get into an argument with her. You ALREADY saw the text. Use your common sense, and if she doesnt answer you, you already know the answer.

There are many more lies that you aren't aware of at all.

Her friend should not be aware of whats going on.

What about the friend she parked her car in that night she was really at the OMs house all night.

Seems like everyone knows.

Thanks you all.

@craig2001: She does know I've been snooping but still doesn't know how. She even asked the OM to try to find out, not so many weeks ago. But I sense she's figured out it's not as simple as picking up her iPhone and that, for some reason, maybe not all texts are available. I think she thinks I haven't snooped (or been able to) in a while.

Re the 'friend' whose driveway my WW used the night she walked out, oh no believe you me I'VE been blamed for that one, as if I'M the one who told this particular person . The simple fact is she told her as it suited her ends that night - she'd had too much to drive and wanted rescuing by the OM (or should I say KIWM - Knight in a White Merc - I kid you not that's what the POS called himself in a text to my WW some weeks ago ).

You are not gaining anything by how you have been acting and reacting.

Try something different.

Call her friend and ask her what she knows about the affair.

Though, it is doubtful her friend will tell you anything, but you never know.

Remember, you are the one being crapped on.

You are the one being lied to.

You are the one being accused of causing all of this.

You are the one who your wife apparently is lying to everyone about.

I don't think at this point I would sit by idle and allow any more of this.

Call her friend, ask her what's up.

I don't think you know half of what is going on.

And your wife has never answered anything. Seems odd to me that your wife out of the blue recently told her of her other affair.

It just seems everything she says and does is to hurt you. OR, she says things just to make sure your leash is secure. All control

When you thought she told you about her other affair 2 years ago, you took it as a sign of her becoming honest. Nope, it was tightening her control

Or she is just insane.

If you are not going to file for divorce, you need some control in your life here.

Call up the gay guy and ask him if your wife was with him all night. Where were they after the bars closed. Your wife spends the night with some guy like this while trying to R.

She doesnt get it and never will.

I mean what is next with her.

Considering what happened last weekend, I dont think you should even talk to her let alone confront her really.

If you feel you need to ask about the text, ask her and then drop it. She either answers, lies or more than likely uses the opportunity to start another fight.

DO NOT engage in arguing with her.

When I was a little kid, my mom used to tell me not to argue with crazy people. Keep that in mind.

Seems odd to me that your wife out of the blue recently told her of her other affair.

Which other affair? I don't remember her telling me anything in ten weeks out of the blue - if by 'out of the blue' you mean off her own back.

Also, you've got it wrong about my WW being out until 5am. It was more like 2.30am (I know, so much better).

Which other affair? I don't remember her telling me anything in ten weeks out of the blue - if by 'out of the blue' you mean off her own back.

The that she admitted to about 2-3 years ago with a neighbor that you suspected her of having.

I seem to remember you and her were in bed and she told of that affair and you went out and walked around.

for now I wanted to ask your opinions on whether I should confront my WW about the text from her work colleague about helping her move out the Saturday she was let out of police custody. I mean, logic says I should but each time I let slip I have seen something very recent, I sense my WW goes further 'undercover'. Texts dry up and I lose the ability to snoop etc (I won't go into why here). Plus I may have misread the date of that text. I need to check. If accurate however, it changes everything.

What does it change? Your wife is still unremorseful. Moreover, she's violent and the message you keep sending is that you'll forgive anything anyway, so she has no incentive to take you seriously.

My opinion is that you don't confront her about anything, because she has already crossed all of your lines and your only response is to keep pleading with her to stop crossing lines.

I know you have to do what you're going to do, but it's hard to watch. Like watching England trying to stop Italy from absolutely dominating midfield like it was their own living room.

I agree with redsox the only message you are sending her is that you are willing to out up with any behavior.

I hope that you can find some happy in that cause it's gonna be a long sad life for you.

Your poor son he has a mother with no moral compass that is completely broken and a dad that is too afraid to demand the love and respect any person should have..

This may seem harsh but that's what I see.

My opinion is that you don't confront her about anything, because she has already crossed all of your lines and your only response is to keep pleading with her to stop crossing lines.

Have to agree with this one. You must be able to see it too, saveus.

What is stopping you from taking the steady step by step process towards divorce? Fear? Inertia? Submission?

You have done everything you can to try and make your wife see sense, bring her out of the fog, give her consequences (but too vague and wishy-washy to have anything to follow through on), you've probably tried to use your DS to get through to her. Nothing has worked.

You can live in limbo. You can do that forever. But you are giving your WW the message that she can do whatever she wants to and she can treat you badly into the bargain. She has all the cards and you have none.

You are picking up on what are really trivial details to try and fob off what we are saying. You cannot give answers when you are sitting and waiting for your WW to...... To what? This is not going to change. She has emotionally left you and I can say that means, for women, it's over. OM is irrelevant. His white Merc is irrelevant. It's YOUR marriage and YOUR relationship that is in tatters.

I honestly believe that you have two choices. Put up and shut up and live the way you are or continue down the road to divorce and a better future than the first option. I don't think there is anything more I can say. She WANTS you to divorce her, but wants to keep the house, your DS and anything else of value. But not you. So your next move is to fill in whatever forms, make whatever phone calls, send any letters that you need to take divorce to the next stage.

If she has a Road to Damascus moment, fine. But right now, the best thing you can do is detach and look after your own interests and that of your DS. And know that whatever happens, this WILL end up being YOUR fault.

Lecture over.

What UKgirl said. (2X4 incoming) Frankly brother, this cycle of her treating you like transitory shit while you make excuses for her behaviour and continue to dance to her and OM's tune is just utterly debilitating to read. I flicked back to the first page of your story (dated late March), and you are still in the EXACT same position you were then. To quote allatsea, 'your wife keeps feeding you shit sandwiches, but moans when you say you don't like the taste of shit....stop eating shit.'

And yet you continue to, under the pretext that a woman who is not acting like a mother, is abusive, has pretty much from all accounts lived life as a temporarily inconvenienced single woman while treating you with contempt, is physically and emotionally abusive; is magically going to come to her senses and invest herself in you again. Sorry mate, without you PROVING to her that her actions have consequences, that will never happen.

You're going in circles and you know it. She knows it as well, which is why she is ramping her despicible behaviour up into new levels of crazy to goad you.

On top of that, you actively defend her when people here call her behaviour out. 2:30am vs 5am?! Who cares! She's out drinking with men you don't know, parading her CONTINUED affair with that POS that isn't half the man you are, while your life is in effing tatters. Oh and she goes to town on you with her fists and a piece of plastic tubing when you call her out on it.

Mate, we're all here for you, but this is getting beyond a joke. You don't deserve this. I am very pro-R but you need to file for D right now. You don't have to go through with it in 12m, but you wi sure as hell find out what her intentions are.

you have yet to push her off the fence. THATS the problem.

you have 3 options:

1: be an open cuckold in which case let her screw who she wants and stop complaining about since you accept it.

2: shove her ass off the fence and she lands on the wrong side but what do you have to lose? your wife? your family? she detonated a nuke on them already ... you honestly think you can build anything on the rubble left?

3: shove her ass off the fence and it blows the fog right out of her head, she realizes what shes done, gets some remorse, and decides to commit to you and your family.

your ONLY hope is to push her ass right off that fence. if she falls on the side away from you ... what did you lose? your wife? you dont have her NOW so how could you lose her? your family? sorry bro, shes dropped a nuke on your family and you can NOT rebuild your family as it is going now. your only hope to get your wife back and hold your family together is to SHOVE her right off that fence. period.

alot of pages of the same advice to you over and over while you blow around unsure of what to do.

the longer she stays on that fence the worse off you, your chances of R, and the chances that she lands on your side of the fence are. period. you let her dot her I and cross her T and decide on her timeperiod = you lose ANY chance of R, any chance of a remorseful spouse, and any chance of keeping your family together. the longer this continues on the less respect she has and will have for you. its very hard to love or even care for someone that you feel contempt for. thats what she is feeling RIGHT NOW for YOU.

does it matter what she says when you confront her about moving in with OM? does it matter who knows and what they knows? i dont think so. what matters is that shes F'ed this guy, has no remorse, holds you in contempt, has physically/emotionally/verbally assaulted you, and you havent made her face consequence one. not one.

im sorry bro but i hope for two things for you.

1: that you gain the strength to shove her right off that fence.

2: that you havent waited too long and lost your chance.

my wifes affairs ended before i knew about them. i asked for transparency. she said "no". i told her "okay. im sorry you chose your secrets over me. i dont pretend to like your decision but ill respect it and accept it. i will be filing for divorce within a day or two if you continue to chose your secrets and lies over me, our marriage, our family, and us. its your choice." i felt like id lost her forevever. but i was prepared to lose her and could accept that rather than remain in an intolerable situation. she went to bed raging mad. the next morning she was still pissed and went to work screaming at me. that day she called. she told me she would accept it. that i was right. i risked my marriage in order to save it.

PUSH HER OFF THAT FENCE!

[This message edited by william at 4:26 AM, June 16th (Monday)]

All I can see is a man who refuses to accept that he has a rugsweeping, blame-shifting and abusive wife who continues to lie and sit on the fence.

I've been thinking a lot lately and I see the statistics reported in the media that not all affairs end in divorce.

I predict that if you studied these "reconciled" couples you would find that 99% of them have not properly reconciled at all. Not in the way that they should and not in the way that SI suggests.

I think most reported reconciliations have one partner, at least, who has successfully blame shifted and rug swept and convinced the BS to accept that he/she was the one at fault. I think that the BS is so desperate to reconcile that the they accept whatever ground rules and bullshit that the WS comes out with.

I don't imagine for one minute that many (less than a handful most likely) have actually recognsied the utter devastation that's been caused.

I see Saveus going the same way. I hope not but I see it. I see a man who wants to hold his life together and keep his son near him. He wants it the way it was.

What you want is what we all wanted. We wanted our WS to 'come back to us'. Some of us will succeed in staying together in some form and some of us will not be prepared to be belittled, lied to, abused and disrepsected just so we can pretend we are reconciled. Even fewer will be fortunate enough to have a WS that truly 'gets it'.

I see your wife as someone who will never truly get it. You may stay together under some form of 'reconciliation' but it won't be without you making a serious number of compromises.

Saveus, I think you have an abusive relationship and you do not wear the trousers in it. You are being beaten down into submission and you will get fatigued long before she does.

I wish you the courage to stand up for yourself and your son, before she consumes you totally

[This message edited by allatsea at 4:39 AM, June 16th (Monday)]

This is what I wrote to you on 30 Apr. I was the 4 person to respond to you.

honestly friend, like they have said, you can't "nice" her back. You can't reason with her.

The best thing you can do is confront her with the evidence that she is lying to you and then throw her out.

if you "discuss" it, she will say that it's your fault she is lying because you drove her to it.

If you want to save your marriage, you have to be counter intuitive. You can't be a nice guy because she is in blame mode.

Toss her ass out. Seriously. The only successful BHs I've seen, are one's who stood up for themselves immediately, and acted with self respect. Seriously.. all the other's have lost their wives. So if you want to save her, you have to in no uncertain terms tell her she has crossed a line and you don't want her. Chuck her out. Make her contemplate life without you or your boy.

If YOU throw HER out, then you can say it is HER fault. She crossed a line you can't tolerate. If you beg and plead, you allow her to blame you.

By acting with self respect, she will respect you, even if she doesn't like it, she will respect you.

At this stage, you absolutely have to force her to respect you. if she doesn't, you're lost. your marriage will be lost.

best of luck.

I hope you read it again. And I hope you ACT.

If one day your son finds himself married to a woman who cheats, rubs his face in it, exposes his child to OM, and assaults him...what would your advice be?

...and when he then tells you..he learned this is what a man is supposed to tolerate from watching you...then what?

He is watching you. He is listening. He knows more than you think. He is learning that its ok for a man to be abused.

But you have the power to change this for him. And for yourself.

You are an abused husband. Emotionally, verbally, and physically. And, an affair is all kinds of abuse. Your wife has put you and your son in a shitstorm of abuse. He can't get out by himself.

I know..you're going to say WW is a great mom. I call bullshit on that. A great mom doesn't put her child in this situation. She doesn't have an affair and destroy his father. She doesn't assault his father and have the police called while she is screaming...while he is asleep in his room(asleep?)...a great mom doesn't risk the happiness, security, and well being of their child all for unicorn farts and rainbows. A parent engaging in an affair is not a good parent. They might have been before the affair, and they might be after. But not during.

Your username is saveus. Im sure that "us" meant you and your wife. We ARE trying to save "us",saveus, but the US that needs to be saved is you and your DS.