SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She WANTS you to divorce her, but wants to keep the house, your DS and anything else of value. But not you.

This also concerns me Saveus.

All along people have told you that you really don't know what your wife and the OM have planned.

I think the fact you recently found out that your wife got a text from some girlfriend asking if she needed help getting her things moved to the OMs, proves that you do not know everything your wife has been saying, doing and planning.

You have now proven to yourself, your actions and your words and even jail will not change your wife, in fact she seems to be getting worse.

She is still in contact with the OM and possibly making plans with him and telling her friends about this.

You really need to take control of this situation before you have none.

File for the divorce and protect all of your assets.

If you think your wife cannot afford a lawyer, the OM sounds like he can pay for one for her.

He called himself the knight in the white merc. Is that a Mercedes? Maybe it means an old Mercury for all I know... Does Mercedes mean he has money.

But, you really have no idea what she is up to. She does sound very conniving.

Don't lose anymore control.

Saveus, keep this in mind the next time your wife tries to drag you into a confrontation. And that is what she is doing, she is purposely dragging you into these non-productive arguments that she wins every time.

Your wife knows your buttons and she pushes those buttons constantly. Until one day, she wins and you loses. You lose because she is going to trigger your anger one day and she wins.

If you are a fan of the old Star Wars movies....

Yoda is teaching Luke Skywalker to be a Jedi knight...remember the phrase, Control, you must learn control

Every time your wife tries pushing your buttons to drag you into a confrontation, remember that saying and walk away from her.

Buy a punching bag and use it.

Saveus,

As many on SI can testify to, I was the King of Inertia, the Master of Indecision. If she just did ONE more thing, I would file. And then she did. And I didn't because...she said she loved me! Or did something that I in my fear and desperation interpreted as a SIGN that she was almost...sort of...probably...possibly ready to emerge from her "fog" (something I no longer believe in; it's called Selfishness and Cruelty).

I was never "ready" to file. But I did it anyway. I was so very frightened that doing so would drive her away. Think about that. It doesn't make sense, does it? It doesn't because she had already divorced me.

This was one of the many tearful mantras I recited to myself as I sat in my attorney's waiting room: "Abbondad, you are already divorced. You've been divorced for a long time. All you are doing is making it official--and taking the first step toward regaining your dignity, your masculinity, your pride, your role as father and good human being."

It's fear and hope, Saveus. Powerful powerful stuff. I get it. It still rules me sometimes. But not like it did before.

You don't deserve this. You know you don't. Prove it to yourself, your "wife," and in due time, your precious son.

Strength. You will be ok. I thought the world would end. It didn't.

Listen to AD - He knows, and his poor kids had to tolerate a pretty unstable, broken messed up version of home until he found his strength, but I bet if you ask him now, is he happy he did? Did he do the right thing? Are his kids better off?

He'd answer yes to all.

Saveyourself, (thats my new name for you). You remember the old adage: "Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity" That my friend is you right now. It was also me for 3 years and 9 months. PLEASE - LISTEN TO William, LISTEN to HurtHalo, LISTEN TO ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE 2 choices: do the same thing you have ben doing and continue to let the 2 headed monster that is your wife erode your manhood, your dignity, and self respect and the respect of others, or USE THE 2x4 literally and knock her off the fence. The 2x4 I am referring to is Divorce papers. It is one or the other at this point. Quit all this bullshit talk about should I confront her about 1 little trivial text- that text is simply a rock thrown after the nuclear bomb went off. COME ON MAN, WAKE THE F$€K UP! What are you afraid of? She'll get mad? That's what you want my friend, it means she still cares. You're enemy is indifference- when she hits that point your marriage is terminal- thats what happened to me. PLEASE SAVEYOURSELF,

Saveus, can you consider the possibility that all the posters here might be right and that you may be acting in error?

Unanimity is somewhat rare here, but this horrid A has resulted in near unanimity.

She continues to disrespect you no matter what you do. Such a living arrangement cannot be more harmful to your son than a clean and permanent break would be. He is not learning what a healthy marriage is.

All of us want you to find some happiness. Divorce isn't nirvana, but neither is living in limbo.

Hey Saveus, not a 2x4, but wanted to make sure that perhaps this isn't a case of a little 'well my situation is different and my WW isn't as crazy as others on SI...for all her faults she is a rational person underneath it all, so there's a chance she'll come around on her own' going on.

To trade stories, my fWW has a post-grad degree, a job with a lot of responsibility, she's a very good mother, she's very grounded and has well-reasoned views of politics and world affairs, has deployed to areas of the world that are very dangerous, and has a job with the government that means she is privy to a lot of things most people are not.

Yet during the affair fog? You've never heard more pie-in-the-sky ridiculous bullcrap pour out of someone's mouth in your life. She told AP who was openly screwing hookers while trying to get in her pants that she was 'in love with him'...despite him being married, and them not even sealing the deal. I know for a fact she is still embarrassed by half of it. 'We can all still be friends out of this Hurthalo...he's a great guy' (no we can't, I'll break his face), or 'I don't think it's fair you are making me move workplaces away from him...we are perfectly capable of being professional until he is posted out at the end of the year' (evidently you can't).

And you know when it stopped? When I chose for the TT and the lies to stop by dumping signed D papers on the kitchen bench. She tore them up and told me not to be stupid, that I wasn't going anywhere. I produced the second batch and told her that her signature wasn't actually required, I was doing her the courtesy anyway. I packed a bag, and was out the door, and I told her I would pick up our daughter from daycare the next day and take her with me until she came to her senses and chose her family over her non-sensical fantasy. She sent an NC letter the next day, and we are well into R 8 months later. I will never forget her betrayal of my trust; but she now knows that I was serious.

We are in R now and very happy. It took BOTH of us nearly losing the marriage to realise that we both wanted to be married. And she is now addressing behaviours that have plagued her entire dating/romantic life to date.

Trust me mate, you HAVE to take action. I wish I could buy you a pint and convince you.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 7:33 AM, June 17th (Tuesday)]

Morning everyone,

I started to reply yesterday but was at work and couldn't finish. So, starting over...

@happyman64: Not a bad idea, to get her to write down how she feels we should be 'dealing with it' for me to review. Fact is though I doubt she'd do it. Won't disregard this idea completely though.

@SWAT70: You know I've been following your story (right up to this morning) so thanks for joining in with mine (makes it sound like a game, which is most definitely is not). SWAT, you speak much sense. I confess to being envious that you have a WW who is showing she loves you by clearly understanding she needs help. I can only dream of my WW posting on SI. Right now, I think she'd get angry at being 'attacked' and probably fire right back. So yes, I feel back to where I was a week or two ago - right on the edge of instructing a solicitor and starting D. Literally, right on the edge. I haven't been back to IC since my first session weeks ago and did contemplate doing that this before I hire any lawyers. Not sure why other than to work through all the great advice I've had here - and possibly to put off the inevitable a day longer. I have the words of the Citizens Advice guy from a couple of weeks ago ringing in my ears - 'don't make every conversation about the A' / 'give it three weeks and see if you can get her into counselling before you see our Family Lawyer' etc. I've failed miserably. Yes there have been DAYS (even a whole week) where we've lived separate lives under the same roof and haven't discussed a thing. But when we do (always initiated by me) I've ended up angry and frustrated - she'll say she might open up if I stop attacking her; I'll say I only get angry and frustrated in the first place due to the fact she won't discuss anything.

In answer to your question, no of course I don't want my DS to grow up and think any of this is OK. But - even despite what happened the night she came home drunk - I am still very, very conflicted by my feelings for her.

Thanks again SWAT.

@Badhurt: I know I could be snooping more. A VAR is probably the only way though, with everything else locked down (Facebook/emails etc). Does anyone know the legalities of these in the UK? I notice no-one over here seems to suggest them and they don't appear that easy to buy (or is it just me?).

@Red Sox Nation: I DON'T believe my situation is that much different to anyone else's, honestly I don't. In fact I see the similarities everywhere I look on SI. Yes, 180, 180, 180... I have been doing this quite consistently for the last couple of weeks. I WANT desperately to hold her to account. But when this doesn't coincide with wanting to D (yet), then yes, I get stuck well & truly in limbo. I know - there's going to come a time when I just have to ACT, even if it still feels wrong.

@UKgirl/Badhurt/craig2001/Red Sox Nation/UKgirl: I chose NOT to confront my WW about that text from her work colleague about helping her move out the day my WW was released from custody. Couldn't see there was anything to gain and something to lose (my ability to snoop - which is already limited).

@craig2001: Your memory of that confession to an earlier PA is a little off, I think. I found a text between her and an old neighbour (who I had previously buried my suspicions about, deep down inside) arranging a hook-up. Pretty blatant what to do. I confronted my WW early one morning (around 6am I think it was) and she eventually confessed to having sex with him. I don't think I went out and walked around on that occasion, though you could be right. But my WW certainly did not suddenly wake up and confess to another A 'out of the blue'.

@UKgirl: I am no way going to live forever in limbo. You'll just have to take my word for that. What is stopping me filing? Fear mainly. I don't WANT to D, I never have. I get it that filing is not the same as getting divorced. And a huge part of me wants to see how my WW would react. I bet at first she'd treat it as though it were water off a duck's back but later she'd get panicky. But I've said it all along - I won't play D as a game play. And how can I instruct a solicitor all the while I feel so conflicted?? The last one I saw picked up on that straight away and advised me - much like the CAB advisor - to give it a few weeks and see how I feel then. But not to start D right now all the while clearly my heart's not in it. And that was a solicitor, not a counsellor.

@Hurthalo: I hear you!!!! I'm getting bored of it myself! I know I am choosing to be in limbo and I can choose to get out of it. I know my WW sees no consequences as there have been very few (the sports club finding out/telling my parents/taking my wedding ring off/180ing her... yes, it all looks rather pathetic). I wouldn't say she's goading me though. It usually goes something like this. I want to talk. She doesn't. I get frustrated. She spouts some crap just to stick the boot in (again). She shows no empathy or remorse whatsoever. I kick myself for opening myself up to this again. I give her a few home truths. She completely clams up and acts the victim again. She only 'goads' me once I have started a conversation and she's felt under attack (which happens way BEFORE I show any frustration, like immediately we start talking).

@william: And here is the crux of the issue. That bloody fence. I don't believe the A is ongoing - or rather, the PA. The A may well be, in terms of the OM contacting her - and my WW still never telling me until I find out or ask her ('oh yeah he emailed me yesterday - I told you!!!').

@allatsea: No, you're wrong, I don't refuse to see I have a 'rugsweeping, blame-shifting and abusive wife who continues to lie and sit on the fence'. No way. And there is NO WAY I believe we are anything other than a trillion light years away from R right now. There is no chance I will allow my WW to just let time do its thing, thinking in a few months' time we'll be able to move on and be 'normal' again. NO WAY. Please give me a bit of credit!! I absolutely want to keep my life together - or rather get it back. I can't deny it. Nor can I deny that my WW has always worn the trousers. But that is not to say I've been a little mouse all these years, living in an abusive relationship and never daring to complain. That is a vast over-simplification. My WW knows I ALWAYS stand up for myself in the end - I just seem to have a very high pain/bullshit threshold in the meantime. But I ALWAYS act in the end. She has far from had everything her own way over the last 15/16 years. But yes, in the end, this is where it's got me.

@mike7: I have re-read what you said on April 30th (and not for the first time). You were absolutely right then, and you are now. Geez... Nearly 40 pages wasted... All you good people gave me the answers in the first 2 or 3... What the hell is WRONG with me????

@confused615: What can I say? Except my DS is young enough right now to know something is amiss, yes, but we haven't had slanging matches with him in the room (I know, please don't say it...). Even the night the police came into our house, he stayed fast asleep. Trust me. He did. We still have the monitor AND video monitor set up from when he was a baby. We can see and hear him clearly. Yes, I know, that doesn't alter the fact that all that happened with him in the house, nor that he probably 'knows' more than I realise. Don't you think I feel severely conflicted by all this??? I know his real mum - my real wife - is NOT the one I've been forced to deal with these last couple of months. And I know this gets me on real shaky ground, like I'm making excuses for her or being willing to risk my DS's happiness/safety. I'M NOT. I would DIE for that boy, quite willingly.

@craig2001: I don't know. The OM may not be any more confrontational than I am (I suspect he's not) but are you telling me there would have been no repercussions after my WW apparently called him that very night, at 3am, waiting for the police to arrive??? Seriously? Bear in mind I've seen the POS since then too. I don't believe she called him then and I'm inclined (though not convinced) to believe she hasn't contacted him since. As for the 'Merc' - yep, that's a Mercedes. He got a convertible towards the end of last year and showed it off a lot. I can't help but wonder now if he's that shallow it was part of his ploy to 'woo' my WW (not that needed a lot of wooing)... So yes, apparently he has money - though something has never stacked up with me. For starters, he lives in a small, rented house. No doubt he has a better credit rating than me. But anyone with a decent credit file can buy a white Merc for a couple of hundred a month. Who knows and, frankly, who cares???

---

I'll get to the rest of you later, and update you on a few recent 'developments' (nothing major).

saveus ...

the fence isnt just about her affair. the fence is also about you and your marriage.

shes sitting on that fence unsure of what to do. she wants to rugsweep the affair and maybe be with you, maybe go back to OM, maybe move out and have her own life, maybe ... who knows what.

those choices arent just hers. of course you have the same choices (sorta ... although i doubt YOU go to the OM - just a little wry humor). you could chose to leave, stay, rugsweep, R, D, etc.

but you cant continue on in a limbo forever. you have been there a long time already. the longer this limbo continues the worse off your chances are of having an outcome favorable to what YOU want. the longer it continues the more likely she is to achieve indiference or contempt for you and your marriage. thats a fact and its repeated endlessly on the forums here and can be read over and over. your situation isnt any different although in a way its comforting to think it is (and a massive relief to finally comprehend that its not ... trust me, ive been there and KNOW).

the quicker you make her choose the better your chances are. she may have lots of choices but ultimately you need to force her to choose between two binary choices:

she can

1: choose to leave and do whatever

or

2: choose to commit to the marriage and you.

THAT decision is the fence she is sitting on and you need to push her ass right off of that fence.

I don't think he should wait for her to choose. She won't.

I think he needs to choose. He needs to literally file for Divorce. And he needs to stop talking to her completely. that's the only way out of this mess.

but he seems to have quite a tolerance for pain and abuse. I wish he didn't. He doesn't deserve this.

but I guess, sooner or later, we all get the relationship we deserve. If he doesn't do anything, I guess he's making the decision he does deserve this.

Saveus, thanks for the detailed update mate. Especially thank you for the personalised posts, it means a lot to know you are reading and digesting what we say. I want to re-iterate that it is your decision, your life etc, but we just don't want to see a good person get unnecessarily hurt. We have all been where you in some form of another, and trust me, from the hundreds of stories I've read and devoured since joining this site 7 months ago; waywards all read off the same script. Alarmingly so. It's almost like they get given a series of Standard Operating Procedures when they choose to have an affair!

There are a few things that don't make sense to me though mate.

I found a text between her and an old neighbour (who I had previously buried my suspicions about, deep down inside)...and she eventually confessed to having sex with him.

So that's TWO confirmed sexual affairs in recent history, and correct me if I am wrong, you have suspicions about another person or two as well? What was her explanations/rationale behind screwing this neighbour?

There is no chance I will allow my WW to just let time do its thing, thinking in a few months' time we'll be able to move on and be 'normal' again.

Mate, this is exactly what has happened the past two and a half months. Probably a few years actually, noting the afore-mentioned affair with her neighbour that hasn't been explained. She has not experienced one consequence for her actions. She continues to act the way she has always done, and she has gotten worse if anything...especially noting she's taken to you with her fists.

I absolutely want to keep my life together - or rather get it back. I can't deny it.

Saveus, you are not going to get it back by passively allowing her behaviour and way of life to continue. This might be understandable on some crazy level if this was a one off, but it isn't. She has fucked other guys while married to you before. I'm sorry, I can't coat a shit in sugar. That's what she has done.

My WW knows I ALWAYS stand up for myself in the end - I just seem to have a very high pain/bullshit threshold in the meantime. But I ALWAYS act in the end.

You don't have the luxury of time in this instance. You mention having a high pain threshold. How would you feel if that meant you conversely end up with a low moral threshold? Your wife, the person who is supposed to be behind you 100% has engaged in a series of REPEATED dalliances outside your marriage. And she evidently doesn't give one flying f@#k, otherwise she would have addressed it by now.

I know his real mum - my real wife - is NOT the one I've been forced to deal with these last couple of months. And I know this gets me on real shaky ground, like I'm making excuses for her or being willing to risk my DS's happiness/safety.

Her words are wind. Actions show who a person really is. And this person your are seeing IS the REAL her. Maybe not the manic 'I don't know why the world is against me at the moment' Mrs Saveus, but she is a broken human being who seeks other men to validate herself. Come on mate, she's done it before. According to you, perhaps a few times.

I have re-read what you said on April 30th (and not for the first time). You were absolutely right then, and you are now. Geez... Nearly 40 pages wasted... All you good people gave me the answers in the first 2 or 3... What the hell is WRONG with me????

The good news is that there is NOTHING wrong with you my friend. Your wife on the other hand, has a whole world of problems she needs to deal with. You've been dealt a crap hand, and you're trying to make the best of it. The advice you have been given repeatedly is the advice that works. You need to file for D and SHOW your wife that there are repercussions to her actions. It stops now.

It usually goes something like this. I want to talk. She doesn't. I get frustrated. She spouts some crap just to stick the boot in (again). She shows no empathy or remorse whatsoever. I kick myself for opening myself up to this again. I give her a few home truths. She completely clams up and acts the victim again.

Capt Obvious here, but why do you want to reconcile with someone who has this attitude to your marriage? She literally cannot communicate with you on the level of two adults. This level of apathy towards you and the marriage is just not natural.

I'm also very concerned that her friends were pre-empting her to removing her stuff to OM's house after that drunken episode. Where do you think they are getting the idea that her moving out with him is an option? I'll tell you where; your wife's mouth. She has been confiding in them she wants to leave (or is at least toying with the idea), so they know more about her intentions then you do. That is not cool. She is not going to change under the current status quo. She has proven that over and over again.

Stay with us brother. And trust us, you have EVERYONE telling you what your best option is. File for D mate. If you do, chances are she'll realise you're serious and start making changes in her life. If you do and she leaves, yes it hurts; but you have spared yourself from a life of infidelity on constant repeat.

I speak for everyone when I say I really don't want to hear people repeating the same advice to you in August as well.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 8:06 AM, June 18th (Wednesday)]

Saveus - back on 5/8, almost six weeks ago, I posted this:

If you want to see a sudden transformation in your wife and a realization of what she has in store - pack her stuff in hefty bags and throw her out of the house. Yes, it is possible that she might run off to him. But you know what? She is with him NOW!!!!! At least you know your answer and you don't have to have the knife slowly gut you over the next 6 months.

Or.... more likely, she'll decide that she doesn't want to leave (if she wanted to leave she would have left already, right?). Let her know that the only way she stays in the house is if she ends it - completely, immediately. If she says anything other than "Absolutely," show her the door. And mean it! Get up, open the door, and say, "Get the fuck out!" Let her know that if she doesn't leave immediately you're going to put up a sign outside the house that says, "My wife cheats!"

Get nasty. Show her that you mean business. For the past 5 weeks she has seen that you mean everything but that. When she sees that you are going to end the marriage - and that it is going to end ugly - and that she MUST make a decision.... I have a feeling that you will start getting results.

Look, I know how hard this is. We've all been through similar versions of it. But your wife is actively pissing on your leg. As Bigger puts it, she keeps punching you and you keep smiling while she cocks her fist again.

Stop allowing her to do this to you! Stand up for yourself and fight!

The few times that I've posted on your thread I got the sense that it upset you - so I've avoided doing so. But what I wrote to you on 5/8, and what many have advocated all along, still stands true.

Here's what is apparent to most of us reading here: Your marriage is going to end in divorce. Your wife is a selfish child who has already checked out of the marriage but doesn't have the common courtesy to file herself.

The questions is, are you going to get divorced with a shred of self-respect? Or, are you going to get divorced and look back at this period of time and feel like a chump - like someone who couldn't stand up for himself?

It is time to grow a pair and stop allowing the woman who is actively pissing on your leg to continue to do so. It is time to be a man and throw her out of the house.

Maybe she comes to her senses. Maybe she has a come-to-Jesus moment and finds herself. Maybe, down the road, you reconcile after she learns to act like an adult. Maybe - and much more likely - you move on and find a woman who gives you the love that you deserve.

I know that my posts have been very blunt with you and I'm sorry if you take offense to them. But I know how hard it is... I have been there. And I get your reluctance. But I simply cannot stand by watching someone continue to get hurt, every single day, simply because he can't - or won't - stand up for himself.

It's not 3 days after dday anymore. Enough time has passed. It is time for you to act and to show your son how to behave toward those who hurt you.

I wish you luck.

ill try to put this another way.

evolution and change in ANYTHING or ANYONE very rarely occurs in a vacume. it almost always occurs in the event of some outside stimuli.

your wife isnt going to (on her own) wake up one day and realize "hey i was wrong to F those two (or more) guys". aint going to happen. it would require her to rethink her attitude on life, herself, and that SHE is the one with a major problem. nope. its much easier for her to sit back, continue to justify her crap to herself, and get you to sweep it under the rug (because you did it before). unless you force her to do so she will NOT re-examine her actions or thought processes under a different light.

my wife sat there and told me that she had an affair, wasnt sorry, and felt no guilt. i was . how the hell could someone think like this? much less MY wife. i reached the level of crap i would tolerate - especially due to the lack of remorse AND the trickle truth i was getting - and flat out told her that i would get all the truth or i would file for D within days. i also outlined my boundaries and the various consequences for breaking them. i demanded transparency and other things. i was quite prepared to toss the marriage aside if i didnt get them and she could tell that i had reached the limit and meant what i said. i didnt promise her that id forgive her. i didnt promise that we would R with great success. i only told her that not doing so would result in near instant divorce. period.

she was shocked. she had thought that it would lead to some argument, that id just get over it, and that she could continue doing whatever the hell she wanted. she got pissed and stomped off screaming and refusing. however, i HAD knocked her ass off that fence. her secrets/lies/affairs or me/our daughter/our family. within a day she was agreeing to respect my boundaries, transparency, and to tell the truth. within a few days remorse started and has only grown.

i do NOT say we are in R yet. there is so much that she did that there are people she has not provided all the details about yet .... despite scheduling several hours every other day its still not done. but its getting there. i dont think its possible to be in R without ALL of the truth on the table.

but we wouldnt even be at the place we are now if i hadnt knocked her off that fence. we would have either rugswept it (with long term disastrous consequences that would have eventually destroyed us both) or divorced. the option of R only appeared once i knocked her off that fence and made her chose.

you seem to think your wife is going to change all on her own. you need to give her an incentive to change and to choose. the only incentive you can give at this point is the threat of D. your other options were frittered away during the last 40 pages. i dont mean to be cruel but the lesser options are all gone. you have one card left. use it.

Your marriage is going to end in divorce.

Either that or this is your marriage.

Your wife will continue to lie to you and continue to blame you for everything. When it is all her fault.

The worst part is, you can wait and see if she changes and live just like this for years to come.

She has already had 2 affairs. One probably affair in 1999 that she refuses to even talk to you about.

She will most certainly have another affair.

There is nothing to stop her. She seems to see nothing wrong with going out with other guys and then just laying the blame on you.

She will have another affair and you will be faced with this all over again.

I don't know what is going to change her other than someone shocks her into believing she does have a major problem within herself.

You are most certainly never going to convince her of that. A therapist might, which is why she refused to go to one.

I see no one else, everyone in her life practically enables her affairs and if they disapprove, she just disapproves of them...like you, her friends and whomever else disagrees with her.

I wonder if you are not waiting right now for her to physically be with the OM again and or have another affair, just so you can catch her one more time and that will finally be the end of it.

All your threats in the world are never going to even get her to talk to you in an adult honest fashion let alone change her.

On top of all of this, she holds the OM over your head. You look at her wrong and she says, I'm going to call the OM.

Nice threats from her, and you buckle.

She hasnt even shown she is sorry for this affair. Has she even shown she is sorry for the affair 2 years ago that she finally decided to admit to recently.

If you are going to choose limbo land here, at least live your life and try to just distance yourself from her.

My fear for you is that you are going to start falling back into the same life before this OM, and out of the blue she is going to either leave you or play the same game with a different OM.

She not only had this affair, but holds it over you as if you were the one who did something wrong. She gets worse with each affair.

1999 she wont tell you anything.

2 years ago, she tells you somethings when SHE feels like it

And this affair, totally blatant.

Unless she goes to IC, you can and will never believe a word out of her mouth. When she is home late, when she goes to work, when she goes to the store. You will never believe a word out of her mouth.

Keep all of this in mind and decide how you want to live your life. Because unless she gets some real help, she is not going to change.

I absolutely want to keep my life together - or rather get it back. I can't deny it.

Really, this is the only part of your post that I think needs any comment on, because in my opinion everything you are doing, putting up with, justifying, confused about, the whole mess really just comes down to this; you want to keep your life together, or rather get it back.

I am sure this has been said to you before, but I will say it again. Very gently, that life is gone. It's over. There is NO going back. Picture your life as a beautiful stained glass window, that you love with all your heart. Now picture somebody taking a sledge-hammer to that window. It's gone. It's in a million pieces on the floor. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it but rage and grieve at it's loss. You cannot put it back together. That is just a sad, hard fact that all of us who have been betrayed MUST come to accept. THAT LIFE IS DEAD.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for all us here, because we've ALL had to come to terms with that sad fact. Grieve. Cry. Scream. Do whatever you have to do to accept this fact. Because it is a fact, no matter many times you cut your knees trying to pick up the pieces of your shattered picture. You HAVE to accept that the life you had is over. There is just no other way.

Once you accept that, you can rebuild a new life. Buy yourself, or paint yourself, a new stained glass window. Maybe it includes your wife, maybe it doesn't. But it will not and cannot be the same as it was before. Not because we're trying to save your sanity, or make you a better person, or turn you into a role model for your kid, or anything like that. It's just because that is the way it is. The picture is shattered. You cannot put it back together, no matter how hard you try.

Go into a dark room. Sit down on the floor and repeat these words: "My life is over." Say them again and again until the grief overwhelms you and you have a total melt-down. You need to get it. You need to really get it. Because I don't think you do. Once you get it, once you allow that grief and anger and sorrow to overwhelm you, then you can move on. Then you can start living your new life, because whether you want to believe it or not, your new life has already started. It sucks brother, it really sucks. I am so sorry, but this is the way it has to be.

[This message edited by Montreal at 9:24 AM, June 18th (Wednesday)]

Saveus

I've been sat here for 5 minutes trying to think how to word what I want to say.

Someone said to me (sorry, can't remember who) that I was the one that sounded on the fence. And do you know what, they were right?! I couldn't see it then. But now, just a month later, I do!

I dithered, I found excuses to slow down the choice to D, I monitored, I 180-ed, then engaged. I was hopeless. Really. Have you read about the BS fog?

I needed to get MYSELF off the fence. Never mind WH.

Did I want to be with a person that can treat me like this, with no remorse? Both of our WSs have no remorse.

If I rug sweep again (yes we both have the AGAIN issue to contend with) am I prepared for the next A happening?

Am I happy to set this as the example for my DS as how to treat his W when he is grown up?

It took me time to say no to these. Because I was scared. Heartbroken. Hell, I still am.

The biggest thing I did that gave me the courage to stand up for myself was to tell MY support network....my friends, family and colleagues. Yes, they can't fix the problem, but they can emotionally support you. They also know your WW. They'll give you advice too. It took me nearly 10 months before I confided in anyone. But by then, OW1 had become OW3. I didn't want to face what they would say (pretty much what these guys on SI say). The longer I kept it from them, the longer I didn't have to face my own fence dilemma. The longer I could be in limbo hoping for the H that I married back.

That doesn't work.

You need to sort you out.

To the left of the fence. Face that she's not remorseful. Face that she will restart with OM or have a new affair. Face that your DS will grow up watching it. Face that you will have to live with this everyday. It might be under the rug, but you'll have to breath the cancerous dust daily.

Sat on the fence. Waiting for the magical fairy to 2x4 your WW back into your W. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but really, when we are in this place, we really are just waiting for some sort of miracle.

To the right of the fence. Face that she's not remorseful (yes I know I've said this for the left side too). Take a deep breath and say I am worth more than this. Start D. Start to put you first. Start to put the example you want to show DS first.

Right now all you can do is sort out your own fence.

Yes, D might snap her out of it. Yes, D might not snap her out of it. But that's not your fence. That's HERS. She needs to choose which way she wants to jump.

Start thinking about your choices and the effect it'll have for you (you always say what her response will be - have you noticed that?)

I hope that made some sort of sense.

FYI. You can get VARs from amazon. Although I'm not sure of the point in getting one unless you choose the right side of the fence. If you're going to rugsweep, why look for more evidence? If you're going to make a stand, a VAR my help protect you in difficult confrontations. But do you really need more evidence!? Isn't it enough already!?

[This message edited by CantSeeInTheDark at 6:27 PM, June 18th (Wednesday)]

Thanks everyone and sorry if I've not yet replied to your advice individually...

My heart is currently beating out of my chest... I feel like I can't breathe... My DS has been ill overnight (temperature over 40C yesterday evening - the doc came out at 4am) and is sitting across the living room from me right now (much better it seems, thankfully, though he won't be going to school today), so I'm holding it together...

I've snooped some more. Apart from a bunch of texts I noted down, I've JUST discovered that my WW emailed the OM FIVE TIMES between 9pm last night and 5am this morning That's all I could see but it's enough.

I'm not going to confront my WW this morning. Apart from anything else, our DS should be our top priority.

Why can I still not believe my WW would keep lying to me??? I had honestly started to believe the A was over... Now I'm doubting the PA has been over - or on hold - for the last few weeks She told me as recently as yesterday that 'I know' she's not been in touch with the OM.

I do believe, friends, I may have finally hit the end of the road...

im sorry about your son. 40 is indeed a high fever. is he okay? do you know what the cause is? a very sick child is terrifying. my son almost died when he was about 18 months old from some kind of intestinal infection that caused non stop diarrhea for over a month and had him in intensive care and my daughter caught scarlet fever when she was 5, wound up in intensive care as well, and almost died. both were terrifying events for me. i still tear up when i think about them. i know its hard enough to deal with a very sick child without the other stuff going on in your life. the emotional load on your shoulders is indeed a very heavy one.

on the topic of your wife...

so, here you are at the end of the road ... what will you do? when? why? how?

Our boy is a real little trooper when he's under the weather. He had scarlet fever too and we didn't know until he became lethargic one Christmas and we realised his temperature was sky high that time too. He's back up and running this morning and I've just called his school to say he won't be in.

Re what I'm going to do, we've long since established I only have one option left... I'm going to see a solicitor and start the process of divorcing my WW Why couldn't she be honest???? Why couldn't she show the tiniest amount of remorse???? Why wasn't our family enough for her???? Why would she wilfully wreck everything????????

I don't know if I want to cry or scream.

Confronting her will get me nowhere. I need to have D papers to slap down or leave out for her with the latest evidence. I see no point in talking any more though I confess to feeling the urge to confront her when she gets up... I won't, don't worry. I'll get out of here.

shes not going to show remorse until you have given her a REASON to look inside of herself and find remorse. until she has some sort of shock or events force her to look deep inside she will find it easier emotionally and intellectually to rationalize, rug sweep, justify, and just be angry at you ... because its easier.

thats something thats been said to you over and over. im not beating on you. im just saying you werent ready to take it in yet. now you appear ready too.

its possible that you see some remorse after you serve her. its also possible that you see false remorse that is designed to get you to rug sweep it all and to stop the process. take your time after filing to decide which it is.