SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sounds like your approach is that it's ok if my wife fucks another man and continues her affair as long as I do not piss her off . And you are no longer angry but you still are I a state of denial because you want to send the OM a message. You think he gives a shit about you . He wants to fuck your wife.

The first thing that will happen if you contact him is he will immediately tell your wife. Then she will confront you

What is your goal here ? To stop the affair and try to save your marriage or to insure that you do not disturb your wife's happiness . What are you going to do if she tells you she is going on another "girls trip "? Tell her to have a good time?

I cannot remember when anyone has come to this forum and got all the advice that you just got and came to the conclusion that they do not care if the affair continues.

What more proof do you need . The next time she leaves the house thanks the journal if you must and make copies of a few pages.

Or you can stay in the open marriage you are now in and have peace with your wife and not be angry with her

[This message edited by Badhurt at 6:27 AM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Well… Let me start by warning you that what I write won’t be easy… I tend to used direct words and phrases because I think it’s more likely to cut into the BH fog…

You can accept your wife is having an affair and allow her to keep her lover or you can refuse being in a marriage where your wife has an affair.

Consider the former: Although this is something I couldn’t accept then there are numerous examples of couples that have “accepted” affairs. Either with each other full knowledge or implied acceptance. If you think you can live with your wife having an occasional lover then that’s the way to go…

However…

If ongoing infidelity is not something you can accept then you need to realize what the worst outcome of the present situation is.

If – after careful consideration – you are still thinking that you can’t accept infidelity then the worst outcome of the present situation is that your wife REMAINS in infidelity.

Let’s reword that statement: 12 months from now the WORST outcome would be that your wife is leaving for a “writers retreat” and you are still too afraid to do anything about it.

This feeling HAS to be worse or more serious than the possibility that 12 months from now you and WW are in the process of divorce because she won’t end the infidelity. Sharing her has to be worse than losing her.

OK – So if you agree that sharing her is immensely worse than sharing her then carry on reading. If however you think that possibly ending your marriage is worse than her having an occasional outside f@ck... Well… you don’t have to read more than the next line: Ask her to use protection and to wash before sharing your bed.

Still reading? So that means you might be grasping that ongoing infidelity is worse than ending infidelity…

OK – When to confront?

NOW.

Evidence? Proof? Why do you need that? Does infidelity impact divorce in any way in your state? Doubt it. The evidence you need is ONLY the evidence you require to be convinced. You do not have to prove to her that you know she’s having an affair. You don’t have to tell her how you know. You only have to confront her. You only have to tell her you know…

How will having photos of her journal prove anything? This isn’t court. There are no winners. It’s not as if others will take sides with you if you score 10 points and she none. ALL YOU NEED IS TO BE CONVINCED YOURSELF.

So if she demands how you know… Well… tell her you know. Fabricate an explanation if you need to. Was she at a hotel? Tell her you called and they confirmed. Tell her an old friend saw them. Tell her you saw her FB account with him on it. Tell her you noticed charges on her credit card. Tell her you saw an e-mail. Tell her you read the innards of a sacrificial goat. Whatever…

Only don’t tell her the truth. Don’t tell her you read her journal. With luck she won’t close that route to you.

OK – So when you confront you do the following. You tell her:

“Honey. I love you to bits and there is nearly nothing I won’t do to for this marriage. However I won’t accept infidelity and I KNOW you are cheating. I realize that although I would hate losing you then it’s the lesser of two evils compared to sharing you. You are totally free to decide what you want. You can see OM as much as you want. You can move to him, have him over, date him, have sex with him, and phone him… whatever. BUT NOT AS MY WIFE!

If you have any contact whatsoever in any way or form that we two haven’t agreed on together beforehand then I see it as a proclamation that you don’t wish to be my wife.

Like I say: You are free to do whatever you want but until or unless you verbally and clearly tell me that you want to save this marriage and accept some conditions that will help us in doing so then I am simply assuming you have chosen him and thereby chosen freely to end this marriage.

I will act accordingly and start the process of terminating this marriage.”

Then you simply walk away. Go about your daily business. No drama, no empty threats…

Your situation is relatively simple. Yes I read the income statement you made and lifestyle alteration required but chances are a D with no kids is simply a financial calculation. Joint assets and income since marriage, joint debt since marriage, calculate and divide by two. Doesn’t make the emotional aspect easier but IF your wife insists on selecting the affair… well… and if you refuse to share her… well… isn’t D inevitable?

I can tell you with reasonable accuracy the likely outcome:

She will refuse to begin with. Then she will admit but place the blame on you. Then she will tell you it’s over with OM. Then she will break NC. Then OM will dump her (once you gather the courage to expose). Then your WW will relatively reluctantly accept your conditions and eventually crawl out of the fog for true R to start.

If it takes to long, like more than until this evening to get proof pictures. Don't worry, she already knows what she has done.

And she very well might just try and lie out of it. Big deal, she knows and you know now.

You need to get the affair stopped and go from there. Since this OM is married, it is very unlikely your wife will be moving in with him. So get the affair stopped.

Do not even tell her how you know, do not even hint at how you know these things. Let her wonder and sweat for a change. Even if she guesses, dont tell her. Tell her someone told you.

How you know is really irrelevant actually.

When she hears the OMs name coming from you, she will be in total shock.

Her reaction might be totally defensive, by calling you names, saying it was all your fault, etc. Because she is on the defensive and embarrassed.

You then give her your demands.

NC immediately. All access to her phones, passwords, etc.

Obviously, no more trips anywhere.

And then go from there.

You might think you are over the anger, you haven't seen anything yet. Wait until she starts talking, then it will hit you, anger, depression, and every other emotion.

Do not tell her you are going to call the OM or the OM wife.

Number 1, you need the affair stopped. You need to make sure it stays stopped and you then need to decide how you want to proceed. Divorce or Reconciliation.

You have rec'd great advice so far, and I can tell you that Bigger, he knows what he is saying, so go back and read his post again.

You know, and I suspect you knew prior to snooping, that's why you did it. So yes there is a need to confront. When, well you have two choices, now or later. If you are still feeling weak, and scared, then perhaps it's a good idea to skip the family vacation, and spend that time seeing a lawyer, and getting your ducks in a row. Then have a big old welcome home party with a set of D papers in hand.

I do know for sure that the only way to get her attention, get it stopped, and start on the road to healing is for her to have some serious, and real consequences. Meaning, if she is willing to play along with the idea of R, that if you don't have a consequence clearly outlined and you are 100% committed to following through on, you can bet the bank she won't stick to it.

I agree with recommending you read The Unthinkable thread. It's very similar to your story. While each of us has different situations and we are all unique, there are some universal truths that happen with Affairs, and reconciliation.

I can tell you with reasonable accuracy the likely outcome:

She will refuse to begin with. Then she will admit but place the blame on you. Then she will tell you it’s over with OM. Then she will break NC. Then OM will dump her (once you gather the courage to expose). Then your WW will relatively reluctantly accept your conditions and eventually crawl out of the fog for true R to start.

Succinct and VERY accurate. Bigger is giving you very wise advice.

I can tell you with reasonable accuracy the likely outcome

That is the likely response, but be prepared for anything and everything.

It could be yelling at you in an attempt to deflect her complete shock you know and embarrassment.

Then it will be total minimizing. We never kissed only talked.

This is where it gets stuck. Unless you have solid evidence they had sex, for a long while, it most likely will be stuff like we only kissed once.

When any intelligent person knows you do not lie, go out of town to meet the OM at his place and just talk.

Then the questioning back and forth. The lying and trickle truth.

At that point is when you have to put your foot down or the back and forth nonsense can go on for an eternity. At this point if you do not feel she is being totally honest, you can demand a polygraph and see how she reacts.

NC email is sent with your watching. You get all access to her electronics and passwords and you will have to continue to snoop.

This is the time most affairs go underground.

BTW, does she say in her journal she had sex ... I dont remember now. Also, do you ever look at her phone.

Getting to those texts and deleted texts could give you a ton of answers.

Thank you all for this great advice, especially BIGGER. I am reconsidering my approach based on all you said and I'll keep you updated as to what unfolds. It's tough hearing the truth and opinions of others, but it is what I needed to build up my courage and I know that I'm not alone. Man this sucks.

When is the right time to confront is not the only question you have. The answer to that question is obviously now. There is really only so long that a person can hold this type of information in to themselves without going crazy. If this affair is as recent as it appears, you wife likely has a guilty conscious and you carrying yourself around with the knowledge you have now will be a red flag to her.

The better question is how are you going to confront. If you need a few days to get your head around things that is perfectly understandable. I actually think it is beneficial. In my case, I took a week before I confronted after finding out. I let the initial shock wear off and organized my approach. I had just about nothing for concrete evidence. My only evidence was that she told someone, who told someone else who then told me. On top of it the affair had ended years ago so getting more evidence to build my case what not much of a posibility.

How did I do it? I did not ask my wife if she had an affair, I told her that I knew she had an affair. I used that week to build my confidence and I told her I knew and what my expectations would be to move forward. I did not waver or negotiate. I was firm but my disappointment and hurt was evident. With practically no evidence I did not get much TT. Remember, your wife is perfecting her lying right, give her the opportunity to lie her way out and she will likely take that route. Don't ask if she is having an affair, don't even bother to tell her how you know right now, just tell her that you know. I wish you strength with your confronting.

GKG

One other little thing. My guess is at least one of these supposed girl friends that she was going on trip knows about what she is doing so they could cover for her. You can prove that by telling her you will call them when she denies and says she was with girlfriends.

that means not only has she cheated on you but she has totally disrespected you by getting her enablers involved. They are not your friends if you know any of them and you need to come down on them like a ton of bricks if they are people in your social circle.

i hope you take the advice and man up and blow her world up like she has done to you.

If you try to "nice her back" you are in for nothing but more pain.

Bigger nailed it!

I would only change one thing... you do not owe her an explanation as to how you know. Don't get yourself in a fumble of words or say something that did not occur and get her to use that as an argument changer. i have seen it happen.

Simply tell her, how you know is not the point.

[This message edited by atreides at 6:23 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Well, he can mislead her so she doesn't figure it out and (as bigger said) close that venue.

[This message edited by nuance at 6:45 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Atrides is right. The issue on the table isn't how you know. She knows what's she's done so the issue is what, if anything, she'll do,about it. Do not discuss your sources at all. Each time she demands it, ask only if she denies it happened. Be a broken record on that. She'll either confess or will lie. And the latter will only help convince you what to do about your relationship.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 8:30 AM, August 7th (Thursday)]

Such great advice already, Bigger is spot on.

You do not need to tell her how you know or what you know - YOU KNOW. To enter into a back and forth would be futile and crazy making for you.

Stick with the fact that you know 100% and then follow Bigger's script.

Each time she demands it, ask only if she denies it happened. Be a broken record on that

Without question do not tell her how you know.

For one thing, she will use that to completely sidestep the real issue which is her affair.

A WS is very very good at turning the conversation away from the affair.

A WS is very very good at suddenly turning the conversation to how dare you snoop and spy and then that becomes the main issue, that then makes them the hurt one, the victim.

Before you know it, YOU are the bad guy and the entire situation and conversation has turned to only why and how dare you snoop.

When she asks how you know keep the conversation solely on her affair and nothing else.

When she asks how you know, tell her it is only important that you do know and what are we going to do about it.

One more point. You have received unanimous advice here. Those who post are not lemmings following each other off the cliff. Each has taken time to read this thread and come to virtually the same conclusion.

When that happens, the Board is most likely right.

You must confront her sooner or later. What do you gain by confronting later except more time of heartache? As Bigger said, there is a predictable path to recovery, if that is to occur. Why start later?

You should contact the guys wife first.

Do NOT tell your wife or the other guy.

Then confront her when she comes to you because he will call her.

Good luck.

1. Listen to Bigger

2. DO NOT CONTACT THE GUY OR TELL YOUR WIFE UNTIL THE BS IS CONTACTED.....do not give them time to create a story and to cover their tracks.

pretty much it

You don't say why you are concerned with

I'm also trying to figure out my next move when the shit hits the fan (because it most likely will).

if it's physical violence you might want to carry a VAR on you.

On Dday, prior to confronting, the first thing I did was to gather as much information as possible including e-mails, texts, phone records, calendars, etc. I made copies or took photos of anything that could be deleted or destroyed. I was dealing with two As, and suspected there could be more. After the initial shock of confrontation, the As went deep underground, and if I hadn't gathered as much information as possible before my WW started covering her tracks, the As would probably still be going on today without my knowledge. You won't regret knowing too much, only too little.

Hi GKG2014,

I am so sorry you find yourself here with the rest of us BSs.

It would be the coup de grâce to your WW's A if you notified OM's BW.

Many of us have become quite expert private eyes as a result of our own torturous situations ----if you want some tips on how to find her.