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MHCA

I first want to commend you for being as strong as you have been throughout this nightmare. Yes, she should have been more "honorable" and asked for a divorce. Intead, she got to cake eat, which was perhaps her plan.

Now, with D firmly in your mind and her no longer to manipulate you, she is resorting to trying to hurt and destroy you further. She informs you that she has a weekend "date" with college friend..pulease. You and all others know what this is. She shoves this in your face? WTF!!!!!!

Time to bring some serious PAIN to her. Send the AM profile to her parents, out her to all her friends, inform DS15 of A (no details tho) In other words, get the facts out there. I do understand that a mediated divorce is best, but do you really think it won't come to scorched earth? IMO not a chance given her behavior the past nine months. In some states, this could be used to make her and unfit mother.

Make her move out NOW. Get a pre divorce agreement in place ASAP as to "support" for her, kids joint custody, freeze finances, etc. I would see if you can get a stipulation that when she has them NO MEN can be present until the divorce is final.

Finally, in regards to STBXWW, I would not be surprised if she were diagnosed with clinical depression. I dealt with this with my mother for many years (not the cheating stuff) Check out Suzy Favor Hamilton's story on radar online. Olympian, wife, mother, successful business woman..became a high priced call girl.

Stay as strong as you continue and DETACH. Discuss only kids concerns and/or D. Nothing else

Totally agree with Imives post.

Take off the gloves.

You were home when she left for AM date???

Some more thoughts, thanks everyone!

OK Now: Her sex date with a boyfriend in 2 weeks says a lot. Obviously she doesn't seriously care about reconciliation or she wouldn't do this; flaunting her adultery in your face. Further death blow for the marriage.

On one level it's hard to complain, since I've made it clear I'm done. So she can go fuck whoever she wants at this point. But on the other hand, I can't believe that she would be interested in spending the night with some "college friend" guy on the heels of all this pain and just a few days ago saying she wanted R. It doesn't add up, psychologically.

Threaten that you will inform the kids/friends and family about her treachery and betrayal if she does not agree; don't be the honorable guy who allows this immoral woman to take any more advantage of you than she already has.

I don't want it to get ugly, but on the other hand I'm not going to be pushed around. I think my attitude is that I'm going to be very skeptical but if something good could happen I'll let it come. Otherwise, well, I just hope we don't have to go there.

imalive: I would not be surprised if she were diagnosed with clinical depression.

Ironically, I'm the one with a history of depression. But no major incidents for over a decade. I'm not sure what her diagnosis would be. I don't think it's depression though. Of course, after reading that Suzy Hamilton story I guess anything's possible. Similar kind of promiscuous search for validation from sleazy sources...

Badhurt: You were home when she left for AM date???

I was once. I was taking the kids out to a game and she was going out "with the girls." All dressed up, I told her she looked great. She said thanks. I think the first one was probably a lunch date while I was at work. I know she bought fishnet stockings beforehand.

The friend from college makes perfect sense...a few days ago she didn't want to get divorced. That is completely different from wanting R.

She was in touch with this friend from college while you were trying to R or during her AM days.

It will not be the last. it is her only way to get back at you now that you have rejected her. And she will continue to do it and flaunt it in your face.

That is why you need to get her out of that house. I know you have said you don't care who she fucks, but I know it is not something you want to be told about or forced to see all the time until the D is over and you physically separate.

Do not be surprised if the AM profile is reactivated. It is her safe zone, and I will bet you her next string of fuck buddies comes from her former contacts that she digs up. You can bet she still has all their contact information.

She undoubtedly will be spending a lot of time on her back in hotels to keep digging at you because you have won the game and do not need her any more.

MHCA, you were mr Nice Guy for nine months. Do not go back there and make it harder for you. She is worthless.

DS15 overheard STBX talking to her sister talking about a 3/14 - 11/14 custody split and saying I wouldn't be able to take care of them more than that. DS15 is upset.

Because I have the steady job that provides for all of us, so I can't do school drop offs and pick ups. Yeah, right, bullshit. I am having a very difficult time expressing how angry I am right now. Words are failing.

[This message edited by mhca at 8:51 PM, August 9th (Saturday)]

mhca, I've still been listening even though I haven't been posting. I have a lot of empathy for you. I'm watching a history that I know too well repeat itself. It all makes perfect sense to me. I'm not surprised in the least that Lklb5 already has a night booked with a new guy. She's following a pattern.

I had a long response typed out but I'm not going to post it because what I had to say doesn't matter. Very sad situation that didn't have to happen this way or continue to be this way. I wish she had kept posting instead of letting her thread die. She was getting great advice even if she didn't realize it.

I can really empathize with your kids mhca. Like I said I'm seeing a lot of my own history repeat itself here from DS15's point of view. Lklb5 keeps moving forward in a way that says consequences be damned. The issues go way past cheating or soothing herself with another man. She has no idea...

yop

And so it begins. Look all I can say, is don't get roped into something because on the outside it might seem hard. Yes you are the main bread winner, but in all honesty, right now, you are also the most stable parent for your children. Unless you are planning on paying your wife alimony, which I hope you either aren't or don't have to, then she is going to have to supplement her current income which will mean either increasing what she is doing now or getting another job. So there goes her argument. Plus school pick up and drop off, whatever, you will work it out. If she had died you would have been a single dad, wouldn't mean you quite your job so you can be at school pick up and drop off. It still feels like she is in fantasy land, just the landscape has changed a little. Hold to your guns on what you want, if that is 50/50 more or less. I think you have more right to what you want/can handle with work and custody then she has a right to. Plus seems like she is going to want a pretty big social life, how does that fit in with the kids? You become the babysitter on the nights she wants to meet her 'friends'. Please don't let her shaft you because you believe she is a good mother!

[This message edited by RomanticInnocenc at 10:48 PM, August 9th (Saturday)]

I hate to even bring this up, but you do realize that DD 15 will get a say if someone is willing to give it to her right? I realize that you don't want to involve her more than needed. Does your STBXW share your concerns?

I got full custody of my son when he was 3. When he turned 12 XW began bribing him. PS, X-box, mini bike, basically anything she could do to get him in front of a judge to get him to say he wanted to live with her. Her main reason for doing so was that she wanted the support she was paying reduced/eliminated. His well being never entered her thinking. Fortunately, he was a smart kid. Point being, STBXW will tell DD anything to *keep* custody.

Have you thought of requesting a custodial evaluation?

Strength

Calmer now, thanks everyone. I just hate that DS is in the middle of this now. I texted WW to say not to discuss such things where the DS's can hear. She promised to be more careful, but then I got a text from DS15 saying WW was upset at him, as if he shouldn't have told me what he heard. Argh.

I still hope we can work this out collaboratively, since the more I learn the more it seems like litigation is going to put the boys in a terrible situation and be really bad for everyone. But we just can't have shit like this happening.

I know that DS15 wants to spend a good amount of time with me. DS10 is hard to read and I think he's just stressed out right now. Always tough to know what's in the mind of a ten year old anyway, let alone in a shitty situation like this.

I think someone put this "every other weekend and one night alternating weeks" (one night per week have one boy here and one there, switching) idea in her head and she's clinging to it. That's only about 20% of the time with me for each boy though. Seems like such a small amount of time.

That's because it is such a small amount of time.

What is it that you want, that you think would be fair on the boys and works for you with work?

The fact that she got angry with ds15 isn't a great sign. She feels he dobbed on her. What is she, another child? She should be addressing his concerns and worries, not adding to them by making him feel he has to be careful what he says to each parent!

MHCA

I am incensed for you!!! 20% is what she wants you to have???? Huh, what a joke. My thought is that with this type of custody split, while she may indeed love the kids, it means more child support... more MONEY for her. That is, IMO, a huge factor in this thought. People are telling her this because it means more MONEY!!!! Besides, why would she want this, leads to less time to be on her back getting fucked by new "friends"

I would absolutely be bat shit right now. She "poured" her heart out in the posts, she "rather be R than D" "divorce feels so wrong." Where the hell was she for 9 months with R? You reject her, she sets up a "overnight date" just a couple of days after posting all of that...?

Hire your L tomorrow and get the temp custody, "support", etc in place and get her the hell out of the house, she is not safe for anyone, including the boys. She gets mad at DS15 because he told you what he heard? Mother of the year she isn't.

Stay strong man...and PROTECT your boys, yourself, and your assets

Fuck what she wants. Put what you want out there, and state that it's in the best interests of the children. Always in the best interest of the children. Let her try to defend her stance as in the best interest of the children.

Don't worry about what she might do.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but fuck what she wants.

Changemaker: you make a compelling argument.

She's never had any trouble asking for what she wants and I've always just assumed that I would give it to her. At least, until shortly before the A. I pushed back on some major expenses she wanted to incur and that was part of her twisted logic in giving herself permission to have the A. Blah.

Anyway, there's no way that me having 20% custody is good for the kids. Should be 50/50. Plus, she's going to have to get a career going and having excessive custody will only make that harder. Thanks for the reminder.

I can be quite eloquent when I set my mind to it.

Talk to your lawyer. I smell manipulation for her financial benefit here. At 20% she might get the full amount of child support.

BTW, can I use you as a reference when advising newbies to see a lawyer that the experience, while painful, is not fatal? I've consistently told people that knowledge is power and is another way to minimize WS mind games.

Please, for the love of God, do not go into a divorce and only ask for 50/50!

Your story made me cry bc it was much to similar to my own. I have three small children, and I am in the very middle of divorcing (which went nuclear after many promises to the contrary). She started out swearing to me she didn't want any of my money and that she would share custody - now she wants it all, the children and the money (I suspect not in that order).

Ask and fight for full custody! It's not a matter of time spent with the children, it's about the choices that get made for them. If she wants to spend more time with then you can allow it.

I decided to go this route, and I think I'll end up with a 50% time split, but only bc I asked for full custody! My STBX is a VERY savy negotiator and I am not. I'm very glad I asked for full custody and fought to 50%.

I would also advise to get out of there, or at least get her out. IMO your healing will take place faster when you don't have to deal with the constant reminder of her betrayal(s).

Hang in there! You are in the middle of the pain right now. I hurt for you, brother. I didn't even realize how badly I was hurting when I was still in the house with her... I'm so glad I got out as when I did. Good luck with whatever you decide.

"every other weekend and one night alternating weeks" (one night per week have one boy here and one there, switching)

So during Week 1, you would have DS15 one weeknight and then during Week 2, you would have DS10 one weeknight? What do you think of that arrangement?

FWIW, your stbxww's perception that you'll be unable to handle doing school drop-offs and pick-ups is not enough to justify an EOW schedule (unless you spend a lot of the week traveling for your job), imo.

mhca, please listen to everyone here. Go after as much custody as you can. Your stbx has shown who she really is and how she thinks. Her choices have been abominable. Her actions have shown resentment and contempt for you and the kids. She never thinks of any consequences. Period. By going out on a sleepover, she is showing you that she wants to continue to hurt you. Probably under the guise of this is something for her to help with her pain since you look at dating websites. She does need to sooth with someone since she can't do that for herself. I get the feeling that this is tit for tat by using another nuke. This is the worst type of thinking for the kids. She's still not thinking in the best interest of the kids. Did she ask them how they feel about her being out for a night with a new guy? (rhetorical question) The kids know that you are in the middle of a D and know what her being out means. Especially DS15. We could all see that she didn't have true remorse (way too early for that anyway IMO) and she continues to not think about how her actions affect you and the kids. Or maybe she does. That's the point isn't it? Her way of thinking has always been selfish. Even within the M. So what makes you think that D is going to be amicable and not selfish for her? She has shown you a pattern and she continues to follow it. Do you see that pattern? It's tragic and I have personally seen it in my life 3 times (1 a SO myself in a 2.5 year relationship, 1 was my mother, and 1 was a good friend that I can no longer speak to because of this pattern/way of thinking). Do you see her pattern that she keeps following? If so, don't think this D is going to be any different.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the greatest fears of a BS is that their WS is going to abandon them if they try and R. The WS did abandoned the BS before, they are certainly capable of doing it again. When you left the door open a crack she proved to you that she would not stick around and it was abandon ship. She's still doing that even if she shows you a different face. Sounds like she is already planning with her sister. My heart breaks for those kids of yours. I was one of them. Fight like crazy for them.

This thing is going to continue to get uglier. How have your interactions been now that she's back home? Has she shown anything to make you think this D was going to be amicable?

yop

Fuck it all. She can't even do divorce right. She sent me an email asking if I can take care of the kids next Thursday morning because she wants to stay overnight in the city with a "college friend." My response:

Looks like I can take care of next Thursday morning. Do the kids know about your overnight plan?

Her response:

As long as it worked with you, I am planning on staying in [the city] Wednesday night and hanging out [there] in the morning.

Me:

Yeah, that's fine, you're free to do what you want, but I assume this is an overnight with a man? I don't think that's a good example for the kids before the D decree is finalized. I won't tell them but they're more perceptive than you think.

Her:

I am seeing a friend from college from [college city], who does happen to be a man, but it is not about his being a man. It is about getting to spend time together and not drinking and driving as he is in town less than 24 hours. If you and I were together, I would have invited him to stay at our house. I don't plan on making a big deal out of it to the boys, because it really isn't.

Me:

Is he married?

I think this shows very poor judgement in your part. Staying overnight in a hotel with a man while our S isn't even out-of-house so you can drink? Really?

Her:

No. Divorced and involved with someone out there. He has one child he shares custody with. She may be with him.

How about getting a break and spending time with a friend while living in a difficult situation? You get a night and morning with your kids, and I get a night away.

Me:

If you can't see the problem here I don't know what else to say, especially after all we've been through. I give up. I'll think about whether I'm OK the child care and let you know.

[This message edited by mhca at 1:45 PM, August 12th (Tuesday)]