SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Definitely give your conditions, but also be very cautious that she isn't trying to take the A underground on you. She needs to:

1. Go NC. It doesn't sound like she has committed to this yet.

2. Be honest. So far it sounds like you've busted her and she has only owned up to what she was confronted with.

3. Be transparent. You get access to everything at any time -- email, phone, social media, etc. Deleting all history (or anything in the future) is hiding things.

4. IC/MC. She needs to go to IC to understand why she did this to begin with. MC usually comes down the road. You'll probably need IC to deal with the trauma of what you've been through as well.

If she won't commit to this or if her actions don't line up, she isn't committed to working on the marriage.

For your own health, don't focus on her. Sure, pay attention if her actions match your conditions to make sure you aren't caught with another surprise. However, now is the time to take care of yourself and to be there for your kids. You've just been deeply emotionally wounded and you need the time and space to work through all of it.

I am so sorry you have to find yourself here.

I'm going to be a bit rough here. Selfless people don't have affairs. Selfish people do. They don't just happen either. Accidentally throwing a red sock in the white wash just happens. Sleeping with others doesn't just happen, especially when it involves the conscious action of meeting at a hotel room multiple times.

I can tell you that she is still in the affair fog and is fence sitting. You need to look up the 180 and do it hard. You need to see a lawyer. You need to think about what YOU want. Show her tough love if need be.

ETA: The sudden change of heart means the guy dumped her, which makes you plan B. 180 anyway. You can 180 and still slowly inch into reconciliation. No one comes around that quick after being confused. She got dumped and now wants to work on things with you. Being plan B would not sit well with me.

[This message edited by franklymydear at 5:59 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

My wife came home today and said she wants to try and fix our marriage. No 180 required it seems.

I made the mistake of agreeing to R right away. I was thinking if she admits everything when confronted, I would try to work it out. In hind-site, I wish I would have made her leave the house for a few weeks minimum. One, to have her physically realize the damage she had done to the marriage, and to give me a little breathing room, to clear my head, reflect, and evaluate if it was really worth it. Life is too short to put up with this.

I quite likely might have made a different decision. I don't feel that she paid or realized the true consequences. She did everything I required, STD tests, MC, a full battery of pointed questions and disclosure under threat of one single lie and it was over, ( she really didn't know how much I really knew). Of course she did know that I found her list of affairs, with details, so there wasn't that much to hide anyway.

My point is don't be in a rush to put it all behind you without being sure the problems are addressed.

I often wonder if I wouldn't have been happily remarried by now. Go slow and careful, and maybe the lawyer could start the paperwork, just so she gets a grasp on the situation.

Wow, we all jumped on that at the same time!

t/j

twisted, great minds and all that

t/j

My wife came home today and said she wants to try and fix our marriage. No 180 required it seems.

Okay fine and dandy. I agree with the other posts. Just remember actions speak far louder than words.

Make her write out a complete honest timeline of when, what, who and the why if she knows the honest answer to that at this time.

She gives you access to all of her electronics. You are know where she is all the time.

In reality, this is the worst part and the time when most affairs go underground. Watch and pay attention. And snoop for any signs that the affair continues.

ETA: Remember, it is you that is offering her the chance to R, not the other way around.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 6:31 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

My wife came home today and said she wants to try and fix our marriage. No 180 required it seems.

Whoa, slow down there partner! There is a saying we use here at SI that goes... Believe none of what your WS says, and only 50% of what you see.

Given your WW's past attitude and statements, I'm guessing she confronted the OM with the "I want to leave my M for you" line or something close. 99% of the time a player (like this POS OM is) will throw a WS under a bus and run for the hills when they hear that. Drama is a real killer for this type of A. Just something for you to think about.

BTW, it doesn't matter what happened in the M before her A. That is/was *not* an excuse for her cheating. She could have chose any number of other remedies to bring problems in the M to light... MC, separation or divorce, just to name a few.

Please heed the advice here and be extremely careful about blindly taking her back without consequences.

Last but not least... DO NOT EVER reveal ANY of your sources and/or evidence you have about WW's A. Read some of the other posts here about what happens when a BS does that. Read specifically about something called "Taking the A underground". It's not very pretty.

Good luck and stay strong!

ETA: t/j Holy crap! There must have been 10 responses while I was typing that lol. Gotta love the support troupes here on SI!

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 7:15 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

Panic Attack just put it perfectly when he said "whoa buddy slow down here". That is an understatement . Less than 24 hours ago she did not know if she still loved you and today she comes home and "! You're the man" . And at the same time you have no clue if OM is still in the picture of that he has tried to go back to his wife. What a coincidence!!!

The most likely probability here my friend is that he has put your WW o n hold and all of a sudden you are her only option .

And your reaction to her statement was "I guess I don't need the 180".

So what do you know about this sudden transformation

(1) is she still in contact with him. I'll answer that one for you

YES she is. You gonna stand for that?

(2) has she offered to jettison her friend who fixed her up or do you get the privilege of watching them go out together to GNO? The answer to that one is that girlfriend goes . Not negotiable.

(3) since she wants you, what has she offered on her own to make herself transparent and make you feel safe. And by the way girls night out with anyone should be something she wants no part of right now. Or are you expected to sit home and wonder if she found a new boyfriend?

There is obviously a lot more that you need to DEMAND prior to agreeing you do not need the 180.

Don't forget that you have been fed nothing but lies and deceit for who knows how long and this was no fucking mistake. She lied and went out and banged another man on multiple instances and then told you she might not be in love with you. Be like an elephant and have a long memory or you will have it happen to you again. She needs to earn R, not simply state she'll stsy with you now that her OM is not available.

You are right, I got ahead of myself last night. Having slept on it, my head is in a whole other place.

I ofcourse want to keep a family for my kids, but can't help feeling this may beyond repair. She has finally let go of her emotional ransom over me and the result is I am thinking more about what needs to be done.

She is not remorseful. She has not been forthcoming with ways to fix this. I almost think she expects me to be grateful she wants to stay. I think you are right in saying the choice was maybe made for her by the other guy, which isn't a good enough result.

I've read the 180 in FAQ and will do this. The separation procedures here are different to US, I need to look into options, which I will do today.

I said to her last night we need STD tested and she seemed shocked, said their used condom blah blah but fuck that. We need tested! If she sucked his dick that would be enough to pass STIs about as much as the thought repulses me.

I have my doubts she will be able to do what is needed. At moment, with what feels like a clearer head, the only attraction to keeping my family together is my children.

edit

I am following what I can of 180, being a bit short, happy, making plans etc. Not starting convos. She is acting like everything is back to normal which is irritating me. I am wondering, if it wasn't for the kids, would this be worth it? I dont really believe much she has to say, she is no longer the woman I married. She is taking me for a mug. She asked how I was and I've told her my head feels clear, but also that I am not sure we can fix it and have looked at separation options. Left it at that though. I cant use a loyer in Scotland until we have made unofficial agreements ourselves.

I also heard back from the other guys wife, he called her last night saying my wife and him called it off. No reasons or details given.

[This message edited by generic at 5:41 AM, November 20th (Thursday)]

Generic

Amazing what a good nights sleep can do. Now you are thinking more clearly. Now after you get back from your lawyer or whatever it installed in Scotland , you sit her down and tell her things are NOT back to normal. That she does NOT get to go fuck other men and hotels and just say ok it's done lets go back to normal.

And she needs to be told that you are making the rules not her and what happens IF you decide to try to fix this with her. You cannot allow her to have no consequences here and from your post I think you understand that clearly. How is she going to assure you and what actions is she going to take. Here are the non negotiables:

NO CONTACT- no being friends. No hanging out together like before. Nothing

TOTAL TRANSPARANCY- you have passwords to all things electronic that she owns . OM is blocked or deleted from all social media and you are allowed to check at anyntime. If she tells you she needs her privacy you tell her she lost her right to privacy when his dock went in her the first time

COMMITTMENT - she explains in detail everything inudong timeline and you decide if her actions make that seem truthful. Everything so far is a lie and do not believe 90 % of what she initially says. You tell her any other information that comes out is a deal breaker

IC- I am not sure this will help right now. It sounds like she was hanging around with a group that this guy was part of and crossed the line and then like the excitement . Not that complicated: Insoiod not waste money until she proves she is all in.

From what you have described her attitude seems to be so what I only fucked him a few times no big deal. Her deciding to stay is absolutely because OM is trying tons avenues marriage for whatever reason. You are not first choice right now.

She is probably going to tell you to just get over it. That is when you should be handing her divorce papers to sign. You can stop the procedure if you want to.

Do not use your kids as a reason to out up with this. It is worse for them to be in a househd where there is the dysfunction of infidelity and the effects it will have on you as a Dad.

Lastly get a VAR( voice activated recorder) and out it in her car if she has one.

And girls night out is over. Period. If she does not believe you are serious about the above she will be available to him if he changes his mind. If you read other threads here, you will see that DDay2 is worse than Daday1 when you are in a false R.

You can get through this and your clear thinking this morning is a good start. Now stay strong and do not let her get away with this of you will be sorry on the long run

[This message edited by nononsense at 6:11 AM, November 20th (Thursday)]

Have you stopped to think what kind of friend encourages her brother to cheat on his wife? I'd be well ticked off if I was the friends SIL.

There's nothing wrong with a girl's night out, but this clearly wasn't that.

I'd expect way more remorse than she is siding right now.

Be strong, decisive and don't allow yourself to be walked on, otherwise it'll happen again.

Generic,

No matter what happens from here, it is a very difficult ride. They call this the *rollercoaster* because your emotions will be all over the place, from the lowest of lows to high hopes of success....and back down again. Just know that this is normal.

Nothing is more irritating...and devastating...than a remorseless partner. It is beyond cruel, but it is also out of our hands. All we can do is (1) decide what we REALLY want, and (2) attempt to go about that choice. The one thing that you do have going for you, is that you do not need to make any life-changing decisions today. You are still reeling, and it will take you some time to regain your footing.

It also takes two committed partners to attempt reconciliation. So you are only half of the equation. If your wayward wife isn't fully committed, then the chance for a successful R is about nil. Like others have mentioned, it is her actions that will tell you where her mindset is at. Her words are worthless. And guess what? If you decide...now or down the road...that you do not want to reconcile, then that is okay. She nuked the marriage, and it is not your responsibility to rebuild it.

I know that it is hard to do ANYTHING after being hit with infidelity, but let me repeat some small steps that have already been mentioned, that you can take to help you regain some of your strength:

---Read, re-read, and re-read again the 180 steps. Understand it for exactly what it is--a detachment tool. It is not meant to get a response from your wife. It is meant to help you emotionally detach to a point that you can see things much clearer...and make more rational decisions. You are simply too attached to your wife at this point---as any normal loving spouse would be. Fear still plays a HUGE part of our decision-making, and we need to get past these points.

---Please see a lawyer, if for nothing more than an initial consultation. Knowledge is power, and you need to arm yourself...because the only thing that you know for certain, is that you future is MUCH more uncertain than it was just a few weeks ago.

---Investigate separating your finances. Again, this is simply a step for you to regain some control. I don't know the earning power in your household, but if your wife controlled the finances, you make want to take some of that control back.

---Remember that YOU are offering her a gift to attempt reconciliation...not the other way around. Let your wife know this. If she thinks otherwise, then it is up to you to give her a rude awakening. I will bet that 90+ percent of us did NOT want to divorce after our initial D-day, but it is often the actions and mindsets of our wayward spouses that force our hands to take this path. It is important for you to believe that divorce is not the worst outcome from this mess---it is the continued poor behavior from our spouses. Could you continue like this for the next 10 years if you wife behaves just like she did yesterday?

---You have to lay out the consequences to your WW. Always remember that A CONSEQUENCE DOES NOT EQUAL A PUNISHMENT...because that is exactly What your WW will see it as---punishment. Again, like it was mentioned earlier:

(1) The girls night out has to stop. Not saying that she can never go out again, but not in this fashion. She proved what she is capable of.

(2) That friend who covered for your WW? She is not a friend of your marriage, and needs to be removed. Too bad if she was doing a *favor* for your wife...she was helping stab you in the back.

(3) The Other Man? Have your WW write a No Contact(NC) letter, via text, email, or regular mail---and send it. It should be emotionless and brief:

OM,

WW

There is no closure about *star-crossed paths* and other fantasyland horseshit. Brief and to the point.

(4) Total honesty and transparency. This is were it gets really difficult, because you have to verify her information. She is a known and proven liar, so everything that she says has to be taken at face value. Do not reveal any of your investigative resources. Make her write out a timeline, and have her put as much detail in it AS YOU NEED. Be warned that you can not un-ring the bell---so be careful how much detail that you need. It varies from person to person. Some need every dirty description, while others need just the basics. What is important, is your WW's willingness to provide this for you.

Also, her privacy is gone...at least for the near future. No erasing of texts or emails. She needs to provide you with her whereabouts at all times. These are the first basic steps in rebuilding trust----something that you have zero of at this point in time.

(5) She needs Individual Counseling. You really can't force her to do this, but she needs to get to the bottom of her problems. Normal, healthy individuals do not cheat on their spouses. If she doesn't learn her "whys", and put safeguards in place, she will be prone to make poor decisions again.

Generic, all of the above are NON-NEGOTIABLES. If your WW isn't willing to do these basic steps, then she is telling you that she does not want the marriage---and you will have to act accordingly. If you get a chance, go over into the Wayward Forum on this site, and look at some of the responses from former waywards who have done the hard work to find themselves. They truly are an inspiration for what a remorseful person can be.

Remember, one step at a time. If you feel yourself getting overwhelmed, just step back, and catch your breath. Eventually, you are going to get out of infidelity. What we are trying to do, is show you the quickest, and healthiest route out of this mess. If there is one last piece of advice that I can give you, it is to keep posting here. You will be amazed at how much this site can help.

How long can I realistically wait for her to feel remorse. If she isn't feeling it, is there really anything to save

Generic

You do not wait at all. It starts right now. From what you described she apparently is delusional enough to think she just wakes up this morning and you make believe none of this even happened. It is your job to knock her fucking little fantasy world apart and tell her how it is going to be. You might ask her how she thinks you should proceed . You will probably get some stupid answer like " I am sorry" Let's just move on", followed by her offering you some hot sex. Reject that offer.

A number of people have given you specific things you should do. You got one piece of advice telling you the opposite and that "girls night out" is fine. Don't know how anyone can think that to say it is fine for you have your wife going out to bars with the same circle of friends into the same environment is fine. Makes no sense.! That does not mean she can't go out but not with this group. They all probably knew and encouraged it.

Everyone has to proceed at their own pace. Just remember, there is no possibility that this will not happen again if you let her rugsweep this. You are offering her an opportunity to earn your trust back. The sooner she understands that there is absolutely no chance this is just going away because her boyfriend put her on hold, the better chance you have for a positive outcome.!

How long can I realistically wait for her to feel remorse.

reality hasnt hit her yet. She still doesnt see the huge magnitude of the wrong she has done.

When she finally understand that this is a hell of a lot more than just a mistake, she could change.

Has she read any books yet to even begin to learn what to do and how to help you.

We have an autistic 5 year old, there just isn't much book reading time.

Something I failed to mention was a doctor said he thought she was bipolar but she isn't on meds. I've been reading and it could be a factor, not giving her that get out though.

We've spoken again, I've said about separation options which includes solicitors signed separation. She wants to try, for kids, if we get anything back is a bonus as she put it. I called her out on lack of remorse and also gave demands. Transparency, no nights out, no contact and added she must see a doctor about bipolar as no meds isn't working. Then I left her crying, which felt terrible but I know I got to stay strong.

Then I left her crying, which felt terrible but I know I got to stay strong.

This is GOOD. I know it felt terrible to you. But she needs to realize there are consequences. Stick you what you have laid out, and follow through.

there just isn't much book reading time.

She found time to have an affair. She found time for "girl's night out." She found time for hotel hookups with an OM.

She can sure as shit find time to read a book. She needs to devote as much time into healing the damage she has caused, as she did in this affair.

She can make time.

No excuses. Don't accept them from her...and don't you make any for her.

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:26 AM, November 20th (Thursday)]

I almost think she expects me to be grateful she wants to stay. I think you are right in saying the choice was maybe made for her by the other guy, which isn't a good enough result.

It's quite a pedestal they put themselves upon, isn't it? That's their "entitlement" dictating their behavior.

I have my doubts she will be able to do what is needed. At moment, with what feels like a clearer head, the only attraction to keeping my family together is my children.

She is acting like everything is back to normal which is irritating me.

It should irritate you. She's being dismissive of your feelings of being betrayed. It's her attempt to minimize the impact of betraying her spouse and minimizing the impact of any consequences coming down the road. She wants to hurry and rug-sweep this before you realize you were plan B. Too late. You already know.

I am wondering, if it wasn't for the kids, would this be worth it? I don't really believe much she has to say, she is no longer the woman I married.

This can only be answered in the time table that you give for yourself, not your WW's time table. If you two did not have kids, you know this question is easier to answer. But even with kids, things may be better with another woman who is far more appreciative and deserving of what you provide in a marriage, who would love your kids as if they were her own, who would honor her role as your wife. If you have an idea of what kind of ideal woman that would be to take your cheating WW's place then you have the standard by which your WW must meet to give you the consideration, and gift, of reconciliation. Right now, she thinks she is gifting you the opportunity to stay in the marriage, and until she pulls her head out of her ass and realizes that it is YOU who has the choice she will continue to disrespect you and do just enough of your requirements to keep place by your side under false pretense. The key here is not only to watch her actions in her role to repair the marriage and herself, but also the proactive choices and actions to help you feel safe with her in the marriage. There's a lot of work to be done. Like you said -

I have my doubts she will be able to do what is needed.

You know her best and I bet you know the odds right now of her working her way back into a new marriage with you. For now, get your business in order as if you have decided to divorce and hold short of executing it. Then use the time to watch her efforts to work on herself and reconciliation. If you feel she falls short or will not follow through then you only need to pull the trigger to continue with divorce proceedings.

I suggest continuing to follow the guidelines of the 180, not to coax your wife back into reality but to have a clear head so that you can plan properly on being a single father with two kids to support. Do you have local family and friends who could be a part of your network of support? Are you legally allowed to separate finances and possess your own financial accounts? Does your WW work?

I also heard back from the other guys wife, he called her last night saying my wife and him called it off. No reasons or details given.

How fucking noble of them..."calling it off"...as if the fate of each person's marriage depends on these two having the power in deciding to end their cheap affair. If possible, stay in touch with this guy's wife if at least to keep tabs and corroborate information.

Generic,

She needs to do a lot more crying, but more importantly, she needs to do what you need her to do. I might have misunderstood, but it appears that her initial statements during your recent conversation indicate that she really is checked out and just wants to try for the kids.

That is an absolute WRONG answer. She is telling you that she really does not want to try because she loves YOU and wants to have only you. She has must flat out told you that she wants to try because she does not want her nice family life disturbed.

Please DO NOT let the bipolar thing have any impact on what you demand.

her crying when you left is because you have just blown up her little fun fantasy world and have made it clear to her that you are not putting up with it. So far, no remorse about what she did, and without that there is no R.

You have done a REMARKABLE job in a very short time to insure that no matter what happens here, you are not going to spend months more and years living in infidelity. If you stick to that, you will come out of this struggle OK.

Her behavior has to change and then you worry about her mental disorders.

I think you will get great advice on what to do next once the folks responding to you see from your posts that her crying has something to do with losing her marriage to you and not for the fact that she got caught and it is over.

Stay strong Generic. It sucks. I know i am going through it myself and so did all the others.