SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If your WW really wanted to save your M, she'd be totally transparent. Not being able to see what's on her laptop or cell phone means she's hiding something. Not a great way to regain trust.

When do you plan on moving out?

Done gone - just wanted to offer support. I do not normally post much. I have been through 3 A's with my WH, yes 3. We are now in R - true R this time. He is truly a different person. But it has taken hard work on his part.

I just wanted to post as the first turning point in his recovery was reading "How to help your spouse heal from your affair". It helped him see what he had been doing the entire time. Gas-lighting, blame-shifting, rug sweeping (on my part), its all in there. If your WW is into doing whatever it takes, ask her to read this book. It's not a big book, very quick read.

The other thing that has helped ME is IC (individual counseling). I needed help figuring out who I am and what I want out of life now that my reality has been forever changed. I had to become a new improved version of myself. It has been so beneficial. I still deal with having AP#2 being a neighbor so IC helps me learn ways to live with this and not be a mess on a daily basis.

Please take care of your mental health. Stress can do a number on your body months later.

She is so confident we can get past this. She says our love for each other is stronger than any of this.

Donegone, point her statement back at her. Tell her if she has that much faith in her love and is that confident you both will get past it then tell her to give you the access to the devices and accounts you need. Tell her that without the transparency and the full truth from her you have no choice but to push for divorce, but that her giving you the truth you need is at the most giving you the power to choose to decide to R or D. She blew up the marriage the least she can do is give you that choice based on the truth. The least she can do is let go of the outcome, trust in her faith, and hope for the best.

You will see if what's in those communications is worth throwing away an entire M.

Tell her if she has that much faith in her love and is that confident you both will get past it then tell her to give you the access to the devices and accounts you need.

Exactly. She has to let go of the outcome, and give up the control that she is desperately trying to hold onto. Revealing in front of a therapist is a smoke screen...and you know it. You can let her know that you are willing to go to marriage counseling, but as for the information on that laptop and phone? There is zero chance that you will commit to ANYTHING without those passwords.

The rebuilding of trust has to start somewhere, and there is no better place than this.

DoneGone,

Regarding the laptop and phone of hers that you are in possession of, you don't necessarily need the passwords or passcodes to retrieve the information. I work in IT as a senior systems admin and I doubt that there is a computer that I cannot get into if I have physical access to it.

The same is normally true with phones also, but I am less experienced in that area.

If you have a friend who is good with computers or are up to trying it yourself, there are ways to do it with freely available tools.

Neko is correct. I have had IT friends get into password locked computers in about 15 minutes. If you get that info without her knowing. Then if you like you could combine it with divorce papers and rain a little shock-and-awe down on her.

She cannot manipulate her way out of whatever is on those devices, thus her damage control.

What you posted earlier about her suddenly being "broken" was dead on. She was not broken when the kids were home. She is not Broken.....she is selfish. Complete, total, pathological selfishness.

Kids are gone, I have only been with one guy, my husband is dumb and I can pull this over on him. Hell yea, I going to go out and have some fun.

Some of you advise me to lose the anger and some tell me to keep it. I think my anger is necessary and completely valid. Without my anger I am a wimp when it comes to WW. Without my anger she would again have the means to make me vulnerable. Without anger, I am tempted to reach out instead of lash out. My anger is the armor that covers my wounds and is necessary to my survival.

Why give her another opportunity to open my chest, get into my heart and rip it out? I think she’s done enough.

The weeks following DD I definitely expressed my anger inappropriately. I have never cursed, didn’t even know how; I learned. One night I was unleashing all my hurt and pain. Not only did she receive it, she encouraged me to continue. She said I needed to get it all out. That stunned me, I didn’t want to get it all out. I needed to keep it. Anger is the only thing that gives me the strength to resist her.

Although her moving back in has been difficult, I have learned to harness my anger and use it constructively. There have been many times I have wanted to give in, especially late at night, just get one more hit. She’s like an addiction, a hard drug I need in my veins. And many nights, I start shaking when I try to quit, cold sweats; withdrawal is excruciating. It would be so easy. It is in those times I have to remind myself what she has done, who she now is. I stir up the anger. It is my only defense. Anger is the weapon I use to fight off her love. I realize I have to let go of her. Not because I do not love her, but because I cannot love her anymore.

I will not deny that it is difficult. It is. WW is totally committed to repairing the damage and preserving our marriage. I am totally convinced that she loves me now and also loved me during the time of her infidelity. I do still love her with every ounce of my being. There is not one ounce of me that is not in pain. Not just in my heart. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a real gets-inside-me-and-rips-me-apart pain. I find that without anger, I began losing the energy I need to leave her; and I do need to leave her.

The question was asked, suppose there was no intercourse? Would I be able to take her back? My thinking is that I should have ended it weeks before it even came to that. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. When I incidentally interrupted WW after she had coincidentally “bumped” into OM at a fast food restaurant, I actually sat there and had a pleasant conversation with the two of them. She allowed me to make a fool of myself. Shame on her! Then, three weeks later she convinced me that the naked pics on her phone was just a stupid, stupid mistake never ever to be repeated. I did not kick her azz out. Shame on me! Now, after finding out she was planning on meeting OM at motel, she is desperately begging and pleading for another chance. My thinking is that, if I stuck around with a proven liar, cheater and master manipulator, then, that would make me an actual, real-life fool. My thinking is that I should have ignored my heart and listened to Gut Almighty the first time around.

I meet with the attorney on Thursday and hope to have a few questions answered. I want to move out without compromising my legal rights. I need information on the legal ramifications if I break her password. Thanks for the information and ideas on getting into WW computer without password. I might need help there. It was good to hear.

I do have them tucked away in a safe place and be assured, I will expose everything inside them to the light of day. After Thursday, I will know which path to follow.

Thanks so much for your help.

Good on you donegone! Keep that anger harnessed and do what you feel you have to do!

Wow, well babe...when you are done you are just DONE! Sorry about the break up and your heart being in pieces, but congrats on your liberation!

It looks like the laptop and phone will show evidence of sexual activity between wife and other man. You will find out the proof positive that they had sex, and she will tell you, "no, this was just 'fantasy-based.' "

I don't think manipulative like hers just comes out of the blue. I am NOT saying she cheated you before, or even that she did anything terrible before, but can you find any instances of when she was manipulative earlier in your marriage? Sometimes manipulative can even be for good purposes, for example, if she was manipulative to give up cigarettes, or if she was manipulative to diet into shape, or if she was manipulative to improve yourself. Right now, it is obviously manipulative about not wanting for you to see her messages and texts.

I thought it was very insightful of you about the way you discovered, and that she had several chance for her to realize what was going on that would have hurt you. When you found them in the fast food place, she could have thought, "whew! that was a close call, I better quit this before I get caught." Again same thing in texts and pics. She had THREE chances, and she gave none of them. I will not say 3 strikes is out, because that is baseball, not marriage.

I don't understand why you say that "WW is totally committed to repairing the damage and preserving our marriage" if she won't give you the passwords. That is probably the single one thing she CAN do to show she is committed, and she flatly refuses.

I also don't like that she appears, in my opinion, to be arrogant, telling you so certain that you will get over this, like this is a little band aid, then you will just get over it. My take is that she is so confident that she will be able to manipulate you into it. I would prefer a little more from her saying "it is your decision" instead of "I'm sure we will get over this."

If she IS telling the truth (not a chance in heck), that would mean she was able to let you go see a shrink over something that meant nothing to this other man, had only seen twice and never had sex. One more reason why it is not believable to me.

How do you know she is not still talking or seeing the other man? Because liars who refuse to show evidence are NOT still in the affair-mind, and about as far away as marriage-mind than can get.

What I would say, what I think I have heard some cheaters here say, is "I will give you the entire truth and I am sorry and however you decide, I will support it." That's pretty selfless, I'd be happy just about the truth part and that she hopes you can forgive her.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 6:48 PM, April 8th (Wednesday)]

WW is totally committed to repairing the damage and preserving our marriage. I am totally convinced that she loves me now and also loved me during the time of her infidelity.

Be careful with this line of thinking. It will get you sucked back into a WW who isn't completely remorseful. Let her actions tell you that she is totally committed.

The fact that you don't have access to the computer/phone (her actions), says that she is NOT totally committed.

What she has to do is to figure out a way to make you think that her messages about sex being fantasy. She has a lot of messages between her and other man about all the sex they've had, she has to figure out a way to make you think this was not true, that it was only "fantasy-based." What is the best way she can do that?

I think the best way she could do it is to delete it via some type of mistake, or to get a counselor to give the laptop and phone back to wife, so wife can delete it. Maybe counselor will then tell you that you have to trust. There are some really terrible counselors out there. I have known some personally who are "life coaches" who are told to give guidance and advice to serious life issues to people, who I wouldn't let these "professionals" to make toast for me, never mind give me advice about my marriage.

I think she is a manipulator, she is working a plan, I'm just trying to think what she will try next.

Done,

One thing to think about with regard to the laptop (and possibly the phone). If her email address is accessible from the internet, she only has to go to the library to get into her email and delete everything in sight.

Please get into the computer ASAP before you lose that information. Then again, if it is all deleted, that alone tells you everything you need to know.

The phone and laptop are the key and if she refuses to give you the password, it is because everything that can compromise her is in there. Get an IT expert to access the phone and laptop without the passwords.

If, as GabyBaby has suggested, she manages to delete her emails, get an IT expert to retrieve that deleted information. I'm not a computer expert, but I know it can be done. If you are successful, you will most likely discover things that will make your hair stand up straight on your head. I too, after 23 years of marriage, discovered a facet of my wife that blew me down.

If I remember correctly, you said that the phone and laptop are in your name. In case you can't find an IT person, do the following. I have seen this done first hand. Call the cell phone provider with proof of purchase and all the paperwork that comes with the cell phone (serial number, etc), identify yourself as the owner of the phone. Say that someone played a trick on you and put a new password on your phone and you can't access it anymore. Your cell phone provider will crack it for you.

No access to passwords.

Not R. Thus she can't be "totally committed to repairing the marriage"

Obviously, you're going to obsess until you see what is on that computer or phone. Time to DO something about it. Get out of limbo.

Your attorney should "know a guy who knows a guy" that can get into them. If not, take it to a computer repair, tell them you wife changed the password (mad, drunk, forgetful) and you want in. No big deal.

Or, call some PIs, they'd know how. Google forensic computer specialists in the area.

Taking the hard drive out is also a good idea, if needed. I've done that with old computers. You can buy a usb cable to hook them up.

I would suggest you read the book Codependent no more.

If her laptop is a Windows machine, google "windows password cracking". You can basically download software, burn a bootable CD/DVD, and it will reveal the password. I've used l0phtcrack with success before.

She definitely wants to hide and gaslight. That isn't recovery.

keep up the good work bro