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Sorry you're going through this, DoneGone.

I think it makes it so much more difficult when the WS is saying and doing all the right things. . . . . especially if they gaslit you to that degree. Criminy! I'm kind of thankful I wasn't put in that position, to be honest.

I won't bother adding to the pages of advice you've received. You've gotten enough to figure out how you'd like to proceed I'd imagine.

Best wishes

DoneGone,

I totally get you wanting her to feel pain like you are right now. And yes being short/rude with her on the phone or calling her names will do the trick. But if you really want to cause her maximum discomfort, detach as much as possible until you get the poly done.

My guess is that your WW, like so many others needs attention. Attention is her porn, her addiction. They say there is no such thing as bad press. And to her attention, good or bad is still attention. Its what she got from her POS affair partner. Good heroin, bad heroin, is still heroin. So even though you are not being lovey dovey to her, you are still reacting to her gas-lighting act. She still knows you are thinking about her. Its her way of playing you. That gives her power. That is what she wants. Take the power back.

Be cool. Be calm. Be matter-of-fact. I know you may not feel cool or calm, just fake it if you have to. Let her sweat it out for a bit wondering what is going on. When she sends a text or email making some comment or asking a question...just let it drop off into space.

But be warned. She may get super angry. Ever seen someone go thru withdrawal?

I have been there. I have walked in your shoes and felt and lived the depths of your despair. We all have. It’s what binds us anonymously on this site. Don't apologize for your feelings or thoughts, realize you probably have little control over them right now and they will ebb and flow through you, regardless.

There are no coincidences in life. The fast food joint was not her first meeting. She had to fess up to that dateline because you were there in person so she couldn’t deny. I highly doubt that was the first meeting.

“I’m a woman and my emotional needs were unmet". Speaking as a woman, enough of this bullshit. How about this for a scary wakeup:

Wiki on narcissism:

• An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges

• Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships

• A lack of psychological awareness

• Difficulty with empathy

• Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)

• Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)

• Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt

• Haughty body language

• Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)

• Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)

• Using other people without considering the cost of doing so

• Pretending to be more important than they really are

• Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements

• Claiming to be an "expert" at many things

• Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people

• Denial of remorse and gratitude

Keep posting and venting. And keep telling yourself that you will survive and thrive. Fake it till you make it.

donegone - it's possible you caught her before she fucked him. does it matter? it would to me. but if you're intent on divorcing her, go no-contact and move on. it's the best way out of this pain. if it matters to you, then you need to get the truth. schedule a polygraph. this has two benefits, it gets you the truth, one way or another, and it forces her to face the truth. frequently WSs are good at compartmentalizing. sometimes they don't even admit the truth to themselves. when she's faced with it, it causes a conflict which usually fundamentally changes things. it also gives you peace of mind knowing that you're not being lied to anymore.

so.... if you haven't definitely decided to divorce, but will under some circumstances, get the truth. schedule a polygraph. then decide.

if you're ready to pull the eject button, pull it, and don't look back. there's a sunny day in your future. trust me on that. you will get over it.

WW moved back in several days ago and I will not be moving out until I have first spoken with attorney. I have an appointment tomorrow. I gave her the bedroom back because, really, it was too full of her and memories. I think I was coming along much better when she was gone. I feel that everything she now does is a form of manipulation. I know she is trying hard to prove she loves me and is constantly telling me how sorry she is for what she did. She maintains that she only met him in person twice. The first time was coincidental and the second was the aborted motel meet.

If you have read my earlier post you might remember I confiscated her lap top and cell phone a few days after DD. I have continued to refuse discussing any of it with her until she gives me her passwords for lap top and cell phone. WW claims that most of the emails and texts are generic but there are a few that were ‘fantasy based’ and would send me over the edge. Her desire is that I talk with her therapist (with or without her) and after I have several meetings with her (therapist) she will give me password in the presence of the therapist. Again, I see this as more manipulation on her part.

In the weeks leading up to DDay, she consciously manipulated me into thinking I had emotional problems; to the point that I was actively making arrangements to see a shrink. She most definitely has a higher level of emotional intelligence than myself and used this to bully me into an emotionally desirable state for the sole purpose of continuing her adultery. All of this was at my expense with a total disregard to my wellbeing. I did not know she had it in her. I did not see it as it was happening. However, I had this gut feeling that I could not identify or ignore; something was not right. Thank goodness, gut feelings are located in the solar plexus and not the brain.

Ninety-nine per cent of the time I am wanting my marriage back; the way we were. I want the marriage I had and the wife I had but they no longer exist. This is the thought I have to constantly wrap my head around. When our youngest daughter left for college, WW and I were alone again, and we had plans. Our plans were to pick our lives back up where we left off at age 21, when we started having children. And we were implementing this plan. We were dating big time. We made a list of all the places we wanted to go and things we wanted to do and we were checking them off. We loved each other as much or more than ever; that electricity was back.

We were that God blessed couple who completed each other. Our love bordered on being outrageous; a fire that always had to be controlled because of kids and responsibilities. We had never stopped being romantic and daring. I could never entirely keep my hands off and WW responded likewise. Now, with kids out of the house we were going to concentrate on each other.

Then I found out she was cheating.

After getting busted, she has written me countless emails, letters, and text messages; always apologizing and begging me to let her try and explain; for me to please give her a chance. She says she is broken and can be fixed. She is working on it, trying to find out why she would do such a stupid thing. She is begging me to stay just another month.

I told her to put the genie back in the bottle and we will talk.

I have always tried to be there for her. My heart was to be there for her in whatever way she needed. This was not a job, it was a pleasure. I poured out all my love on her. I wanted to be what she needed. I guess I wanted to be ‘everything’ she needed. I would even try to anticipate her needs. But this is something I cannot fix. Whatever a man needs to be made of in order to save this kind of marriage, I do not have.

It hurts me to even be around her now. It’s like I was in love with a dream. The person she was, no longer exists. That person no longer walks the face of this earth. It’s like I am a widower, mourning the death of the life and wife I had.

I have not really had any deep conversations with my WW. My heart is still too full of love. My mind plays tricks and I see her as the person she used to be and I have to remind myself of the person she now is. Basically I give her one liners…be careful what you wish for, you might just get it…you can’t un-ring the bell…or put the genie back in the bottle. We were both virgins, and had only experienced each other. I tell her fix herself all she wants but if she can’t fix that, forget about me.

She is so confident we can get past this. She says our love for each other is stronger than any of this. I tell her to speak for herself.

[This message edited by DoneGone at 9:13 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)]

She's in damage control mode. That's why she won't give you the passwords to her laptop and cell phone. She knows damned well it's more than just 'fantasy' talk you're going to find.

She's screwed and she knows it, if you read that stuff.

Don't give it back because the FIRST THING SHE'LL DO is erase it all. All of it. She's extremely manipulative from the sounds of it and wants things to be HER way.

Too bad, so sad. She loses.

Her desire is that I talk with her therapist (with or without her) and after I have several meetings with her (therapist) she will give me password in the presence of the therapist.

That's nice of her to share her desires, but really, it needs to be passwords or GTFO.

She does sound like a master manipulator, and it is hard on them when they lose control of the narrative.

I bet she's doing a bang-up job manipulating her IC.

She's in damage control mode. That's why she won't give you the passwords to her laptop and cell phone. She knows damned well it's more than just 'fantasy' talk you're going to find.

^^^^^^ Damn right ^^^^^^

She is still trying to regain control of a situation she created that has since spun way out of her control. She is hoping she can manipulate you into helping her wrestle that control back. Take a look at your own words here:

After getting busted, she has written me countless emails, letters, and text messages; always apologizing and begging me to let her try and explain; for me to please give her a chance. She says she is broken and can be fixed.

The key to this whole statement is the first three words "After getting busted" because before that she didn't give a flying fuck about you, the M and her family. Its funny she didn't seem to think she was "broken" until you caught her cheating ass. With all of that said, I do have to say that I firmly believe that everyone has the capacity to change themselves, including your WW. What makes me think she isn't sincere about her claims is that she is unwilling to be honest with you and give you the transparency you have requested. Its still all about her and how this is all going to affect her life. She is desperately attempting to avoid the consequences of her actions, all at your expense. That is not remorse, its not even regret. She is still the same selfish person she was while she was actively engaged on adultery, the only difference is that her mask has been pulled off and now you see who she really is. Actions are key to ones sincerity to R, thus far her actions are all self serving and designed to continue to deceive you and keep you from the truth. I wouldn't be surprised if her next act includes a suicide attempt, that tends to follow the script. Be ready for anything and everything my friend. Mark my words, she is going to amp up the crazy act real soon to get you to back off. This is only the beginning.

[This message edited by stronger08 at 9:38 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)]

There's something else in that laptop. Her emails are gone. She probably logged in from somewhere else and deleted them all. More likely she has photos or files she don't want you to see or read.

Don't give her a chance to say hi or communicate with you until you have the passwords. If it goes like that for a little while, put the divorce paper on the table... you need to break her down. She is still manipulative, and she really knows well over these years and it is for her advantage. SO you need to act unpredictably. God be with you. To attend to any MC unless on your terms. First is first. She has to come clean.

That was a beautifully written post, DoneGone!

What are the next steps you're planning to take?

I wish you all the best!

Way back on page 4 of this thread I suggested:

Tell your wife that if there is to be the slightest chance of R you need the truth. That there is no way you can believe the truth is out. Offer her the option of letting you know directly, through an intermediate or by writing a) the true extend, b) their contact, c) the sexual extend, d) timeline and whatever else you need to know. Keep it factual: questions like why, did she love him etc. are of NO VALUE right now.

Make it clear that the truth NOW will open the possibility of R. Promise not to make any final decision for 5 days after you get her version of the truth. Also let her know that you will require her to take a poly to confirm her “truth”. If she fails the poly then divorce is the only path left.

Hopefully this will give her the confidence to be truthful – if she’s capable of it. In turn it gives you the chance to decide there and then whether you can reconcile or not.

It’s emotional chicken time. Who blinks first?

I’m thinking she fears your rage and rashness. I’m thinking she’s trying to control exposure and limit damage.

You need IMHO to do two things: Make her feel safe in telling you (or make telling you the less of two evils) and make her realize that telling the truth is a prerequisite for ANY decision on your part to reconcile.

This won’t happen by sulking in the corner. You need to ACT.

Couldn't a PI get into the phone and laptop to retrieve the messages, deleted or not?

Just about to recommend the same thing OldSoul.

However, DG, if you have to go that far to get answers, is the M even worth trying?

Her excuse is worth less than her M vows.

Strength

ETA stronger is spot on, cover your ass!

[This message edited by 5454real at 11:00 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)]

Ninety-nine per cent of the time I am wanting my marriage back; the way we were. I want the marriage I had and the wife I had but they no longer exist. This is the thought I have to constantly wrap my head around. When our youngest daughter left for college, WW and I were alone again, and we had plans. Our plans were to pick our lives back up where we left off at age 21, when we started having children. And we were implementing this plan. We were dating big time. We made a list of all the places we wanted to go and things we wanted to do and we were checking them off. We loved each other as much or more than ever; that electricity was back.

We were that God blessed couple who completed each other. Our love bordered on being outrageous; a fire that always had to be controlled because of kids and responsibilities. We had never stopped being romantic and daring. I could never entirely keep my hands off and WW responded likewise. Now, with kids out of the house we were going to concentrate on each other.

Then I found out she was cheating.

Yeah, so this whole time she was playing house, playing her role, getting ready to retire with you but planning on running around having more fun on the side. Boring old you was not enough for her.

The fact that she refuses to give you access to her media tells me the relationship went farther than you know. Brace yourself if she ever decides to tell you it went to a full PA.

No, I agree with everyone else. Your WW is a manipulative and reckless cheat. I am fully behind you wanting to end it.

I guess you could leave open the possibility of dating again in the future, but that would require her to actually go and get some serious counseling and therapy for her issues. But if she is a narcissist, there is nothing you can do. You cannot cure a personality disorder.

I would think that you can remove the laptop hard drive, put it in a USB hard drive enclosure, and examine the contents when plugged into another PC. Your user account on your PC probably needs to be an Administrator, which it probably is.

That's nice of her to share her desires, but really, it needs to be passwords or GTFO.

She does sound like a master manipulator, and it is hard on them when they lose control of the narrative.

I bet she's doing a bang-up job manipulating her IC.

The advice from House of Plane above is as spot on as it gets. There is absolutely no reason at this point for her to desperately cling to these passwords unless there is something on there that she knows is going to prove her to be lying her ass off.

i would not go to any therapist or anywhere until you have full access and without a court order I would not give the computer or phone back. All the truth is on the devices you have in your possession. She wants to bull shit you hoping the therapist will advise you not to read the stuff or put it behind you.

Hold your ground DONE GONE

please tell us you have the laptop and phone off site in a safe place so she can not get to it to delete things.

getting into the laptop and phone maybe the only way you may get the truth.

If there was no sex (PIV) could you R?

nonsense, Convert and Stronger08 pegged this.

Keep the computer and cell phone off grounds. Hold your ground and you are right DoneGone, she's trying to manipulate.

I don't know what it is about all of these stories about people waiting for the kids to leave for college and then having a fling. It is innane. That's when you are supposed to be all about the rest of your life, the golden years, with the one who has been by your side. It is predatory thinking. I will use my husband for the hard years and then when we hit that age where the kids are gone, his usefulness is no longer there ?????

Men are guilty of this too.

What has happened to you is horrible and I wish you strength to get through it. In the meantime, listen to Convert and hide that shit out of the house.

How to handle it is every BS's own personal choice.

For some the sexting and verbal fantasy play outside the marriage is enough for the BS to file.

For others the physical act is the deal breaker.

Everyone has their own no-return point and when that point is reached R becomes that much more difficult because your utmost faith, trust & love for the WWS was thrown at your feet and spit on by the WSS.

Its up to the BS to choose whether to pick it up, carry on and attempt to get back as close as to where you were before the s&*t hit the fan or to leave it and walkaway. Whatever choice you make it is your's and your's alone cause your the one that has to live with your choice. Its your life.