SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Really, if she is receptive to do what she can to save she M she needs to really tell you the truth and understand what her actions have done to destroy that trust. We often recommend two very good books that describe what the betrayed need from the wayward to move toward healing. These are "Not just friends" and "How to help your spouse heal from an affair". If she read those two books and really understood them you would have the passwords to her devices and all her accounts, texts, emails. You would have full transparency. You would have some truth that makes sense.

Also, of I were her brother I would no longer have contact with this "friend", this a-hole who participated in attempting to destroy my sisters marriage, my nephews' family.

She cared enough for me that she researched my problem and revealed to me that I was most assuredly suffering from the Othello Syndrome.

Wow, this is professional gaslighting. What did she say about forcing you to seek professional help when you were in fact right? This is beyond the "I thought that you would not get hurt because you would never find out" level.

Donegone....

Ive been following your story ....sorry youre here with us....but welcome...

I hope you have read the "healing library"....its in the yellow box on the left side of this screen....lots of god information concerning affairs and the dynamics of them....

I too have researched the "why" women cheat, as all affairs are different..... yet there are also patterns to the behaviors of the wayward wives, depending the types of affairs they have....... exit affairs, rekindled affairs, parallel lives, etc.....

Unless you live in VERY small town with just a 7-11, a Dairy Queen and a café, with a population of 200....(lots of 'em here in Texas like that)..... the odds of you catching your wife the only two times she met with the other guy are probably nonexistent.....zilch...nada...like really close to impossible. My bullshit meter is kinda twitching....KWIM?

I live in a city of about 100,000.....if I had caught my wife with the same guy ...twice....and it was the only times they had "by chance" met.....and that relationship was NOT a physical relationship.....with the number of calls and texts....over the same time frame,......I do hope you bought a lottery ticket.....the chances of that happening are way over to one side of the bell curve....like several standard deviations....

I.....quite frankly .....don't believe you have the whole story.....I believe she has only admitted what you already know.....cheaters OFTEN do this.....and they lie....

Very few....cannot stress that enough.....very few affairs are just "emotional only".....and most of the ones that are.....the affair partners are separated by vast geographical distances....yeah...emotional only affairs can and do happen....I have seen so many that the BS "think" was EA only...(IRL and on this website)...and later find out it was also a physical affair....don't stick you head into the sand.....

You have also mentioned that divorce is a strong possibility for you....that's ok, Bro....that's one of the outcomes that often happens when a wife strays....happens a lot, too....

Before you consider reconciliation......IF you do consider R......have her do a polygraph first.....

My wifes A was the hardest thing I lived thru...in my entire life.....by far...

Im certainly not trying to make this any harder for you....im not.....Im just not sure you have the whole story.....

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

Two things:

1] Guys don't send naked pics of themselves unless there is a sexual relationship in place. Whether the affair has been consummated is unknown, but this was at least an 'emotional' sexual affair. Are you sure its really over? Not gone underground?

2] Its going to be hard to forgive a wife who declares you are insane just to cover up her heinous betrayal. Where's the love and respect?

If you decide to eventually reconcile, make sure you put her through hell first. There has to be consequences.

Done Gone

1] Guys don't send naked pics of themselves unless there is a sexual relationship in place. Whether the affair has been consummated is unknown, but this was at least an 'emotional' sexual affair. Are you sure its really over? Not gone underground?

OK NOW just told you this. She is 100% correct. Guys ask for pictures of women before it is sexual. Women do not want dick pictures unless they have seen the dick in person.

And Buffalo is also 100% right. The chances of those two meetings being a total coincidence is silly. You have a better chance of going to the moon next week.

I know I said that my wife bumped into OM by coincidence 2 times. Actually, what I should have wrote is that I found out about her meeting him 2 times by coincidence. She claims first contact was coincidental but second was planned.

The next two weeks after I saw the picture on her phone she was unbelievably nice to me. It did not matter what I said to her, she would take it and just apologize. I admit, I wanted her to go through hell. WW sent me an email yesterday stating that she had been through hell and back. I usually do not respond to her emails but I couldn’t resist. I wrote back with a question, “Oh, back so soon? Lucky you!”

The second time I discovered they were together was when I had to leave town for a family emergency. I thought it would be for several days but ended up being almost two weeks. One of my employees, whom has also been a very good friend, called and said he saw my wife go into a local motel and go into one of the rooms. He was very apologetic and said he was just trying to be a friend and that he was sure it was not anything to be concerned about.

I called my wife immediately and asked, “Hey, what’s up?” She said she was at Walmart’s and she sounded like her cheerful loving self. I hung up on her immediately without saying another word. How in hell could she be in motel with OM and speak so cheerfully to me. I went crazy. Hysterical. I thought I was going to explode. I lay on the floor and groaned. I was sick to my stomach, I threw up. I did not think I could live.

I called my friend back and asked him if he would go back and watch the motel and tell me what was going on. He said my wife had already rushed out of the hotel within minutes of him calling me. I asked him to wait and see if anybody else was in the room. He waited several hours and nothing.

Meanwhile, my wife had been calling me over and over and finally texted me asking what was going on and did I mean to hang up on her? I asked her if she enjoyed her shopping at Walmart. She said she just had to pick up a few things. I told her we would talk when I got home. She continued to ply me with questions asking what was going on and why my behavior was so strange.

The next 3 days I did not call her or answer her calls. I tried to think of reasons she could have been in the motel and I would feel hopeful for a while but knew if she had been there for any legitimate purpose, she would not have had to lie about it.

When I got back home, she was a mess. She was so concerned and wanted to know what was wrong. I asked her to show me her Walmart’s receipt. She keeps every receipt for everything. This is something I would always joke with her about. When I asked for the receipt, the look on her face answered every question I had. She said Oh God, nothing happened, I am so sorry, I made a stupid mistake. It is not what you think. I took her phone, purse and laptop to the car and drove off.

I found a rubber in her purse, unused, but could not get into her phone or laptop. By this time I was crazy and I was totally helpless. She had been calling so I finally answered and told her I knew everything. She begged me to please come home so she could explain.

Long story short (according to her) he had been sweet talking her. He was a connection to a disconnected childhood. They had been texting back and forth and finally he convinced her to meet him at a motel. She said she went to the motel to meet him but nothing happened. When I called, she said she realized how screwed up she was and it was like waking from a dream. She said she left immediately when I called and sent him a text that she had made a ridiculously terrible mistake, that she loved her husband and never wanted to talk to or see OM again.

I only believe what I can prove. I don’t buy into much of what W has to say anymore. She can tell me she went shopping and I am wondering if it is a damn lie. Now that I know she can lie, I don’t believe her. Actually, I would love to believe her, but I can’t. I am not an Einstein, but what are the chances that the only two times they met up, I would catch them both times?

I got back home and told her she had to leave. It would be best for her to leave. I did not give her a choice. I threw her purse on the couch and handed her the rubber. I have read up on cheating wives from this site and others. I googled it, went on youtube. I guess I have been obsessed. The betrayal is stifling. Sometimes I can feel it in my chest and have to concentrate to breathe.

My dilemma? I have not learned anything that will help me heal, or forgive or ever come close to trusting her again. I have never worried or wondered if I am an Alpha or Beta male; but I do wonder why I am not like many guys on here, suck it up and live with it. Like I said, I couldn’t be around her anymore. Whenever she was around the pain was just too unbearable. I loved her too much and the pain was going to kill me in a lot of different ways.

She has done everything imaginable, answered all my questions over and over, gone into therapy and begged and pleaded for me to please give her the opportunity to prove to me that I am her world. She says that she is broken, I am broken too.

I posted on this site because, to be honest, you folks are tough on WW. You may be tough on WH too, I have not pursued those posts. You are also fair. A lot of times, I think you are too fair. Many of you do not want anybody to suffer, not even the wayward spouse. I am not there.

It can be argued that if I really loved her, I would not do anything to cause her to suffer. That can be argued the other way also. If she really loved me, she would not have done anything too make me suffer.

I used to be very attentive to her. I took better care of her needs than my own. I treated her like a piece of fine china. Now I treat her like a paper plate, disposable.

[This message edited by DoneGone at 9:24 AM, April 3rd (Friday)]

I feel your pain man...I am right there with you. The sadness, the embarrassment...and especially the Anger. I know how you feel so believe me when I say:

Your WW is lying to you. I'd bet my net worth on it. And you need to know if she is right now! Stop messing around.

This is really simple...you need to know the truth, no matter if you stay or go. It will drive you bat shit crazy not knowing...no matter what happens.

So today, have this conversation with her. And I mean...TODAY.

"OK WW, here is the thing. I love you. I do, but this is not something I think I can just "get past" without some help from you. So the first thing I want to ask you is, do you want to stay together with me?

Hopefully she says yes.

"Great. And are you willing to do anything I ask to prove this to me? You understand now that I cannot trust you, so your life needs to be completely transparent now going forward, and backwards?"

Hopefully she says yes again.

Then you say, without flinching:

"Great. Tomorrow, I have taken the liberty of scheduling a polygraph test for you. I will not tell you the questions that he will ask you ahead of time, but many of them will be questions that I need answers too. If you want us to move forward, I need to know that you are telling me everything (being transparent in your past as well as moving forward), and this will help me move along in a direction of healing. I know that you might not understand WHY I need you to do this, but if you love me, and want there to be a chance for us, I need you to do this. Thank you very much for doing this for me. It's a really good first step, and something that I need."

Now...she will either take it...willingly..or she will freak out. If she takes it and passes, you really will feel much better, and you will get out of your funk somewhat and have an easier time with your thoughts.

If she refuses...or freaks out calling you paranoid, well...then you know what you should do at that point don't you? I have said this before on this site but I own a rather large service company. Occasionally, our staff are accused of stealing things from peoples homes. Our policy is to ask the staff at that point to take a polygraph if they have been accused, so that we can present it to the customer as a provocative step towards transparency. EVERY SINGLE TIME...the staff either take it with no problems and pass it, or they freak out, and quit. There is no in between. Guess who the guilty parties are?

I did this to my wife. She had told me most things, but not everything. I could tell she was holding things back. Asked my "remorseful" WW for a poly...and it all came out of her voluntarily at that point because I explained that moving forward she needed to be completely honest about EVERY SINGLE THING...even if its from our past.

A word of caution if you find out she has been lying. This isn't completely a horrible thing. I know that WW didn't tell me everything because she didn't want to have to come clean, but it also took me a while to realize that her not wanting to share everything also had a lot to do with her not wanting to hurt me further. Waywards, many of them, really cannot understand why a betrayed would want to know everything. It doesn't make sense to them, so they often try to "save you some pain" by not sharing everything. Some do it because they are completely selfish, this is true, but most I believe do not. That is a positive thing..and something that you can build on if you choose to move forward.

You can make her understand that you HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING in order to move forward. Until you do...your just wasting time that you could be spending finding the next "Mrs. DoneGone"

A~

If this was a court of law and your wife was found in a motel room with a rubber in her purse, and you were away on business, what would be the verdict? Each juror would presume that this was only one of quite a few visits and she just got caught this once.

She knows the marriage is over if she confesses; the verdict has to be guilty, because of overwhelming circumstantial evidence.

She was having some exciting fun with you out of town and got caught. Now she wants her secure, stable, comforting marriage back to where it was. She intends to lie, minimize what happened and wear you down with affection and sex. Tried and tested formula.

Done Gone

Aplomado just told you what you need to do.

You know she has been to a hotel with OM at least once.

Your wife's reaction to you telling her she is taking a polygraph will give you some good information.

What she should say is go right ahead i have nothing to hide. Anything less than that is a RED FLAG. Don't listen to any shit of them being unreliable because you may never do the test.

Once she knows you are serious, you may just get what we call a "parking lot" confession because she knows the game is up.

DO NOT CANCEL THE TEST if she says fine. many times they wait until the last moment to come clean.

That is the only way you are going to feel comfortable that she is telling the truth and that that was the only time she has met him at hotel.

I have not learned anything that will help me heal, or forgive or ever come close to trusting her again.

Why? You know, one thing I have learned is that while the A exposed WWs "issues", those issues were always there from the beginning. They just didn't materialize at the start of the affair. People are complicated, imperfect. Aspects of someone can be latent. What makes you different?

What has the A uncovered in you? Why are you so hurt? What is the source of your pain? What have you lost? Why so much anger? Does your wife need to be perfect to be worthy of your love?

I would say that how you feel and think about her is a separate matter from whether or not you want to have a marriage with her.

ETA: I am assuming here that she has told been telling you the truth about the A.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:13 AM, April 3rd (Friday)]

DoneGone, I get the impression that while WS has done a great job generating pain, you are doing a better one at generating your own suffering.

People are complicated, imperfect. Aspects of someone can be latent. What makes you different? What has the A uncovered in you? Why are you so hurt? What is the source of your pain? What have you lost? Why so much anger?

You *will* eventually have to answer these questions if you want to move forward, R or D. Or you can "suck it up and live with it" as you said in your post. R or D.

DoneGone, I get the impression that while WS has done a great job generating pain, you are doing a better one at generating your own suffering.

My IC calls this Wallowing...and once she put it to me in those terms, I really felt like a pathetic twerp. It sucks, but it was my willingness to wallow in it that made it so bad.

So stop wallowing. Do whatever you have to do to get to the truth...that is your first challenge. Once you do that, everything else will fall into place for you mentally.

If you just give up, without knowing the truth, or at least giving her that one last, final, "come to jesus" opportunity, you will forever have doubts and regrets.

If you give her that last chance, and she still is lying right to your face, then you know you are doing the right thing, without a doubt.

A~

[This message edited by Aplomado at 12:56 PM, April 3rd (Friday)]

Guys don't send naked pics of themselves unless there is a sexual relationship in place.

I disagree with this. I found a shit ton of dick pics other men had sent MY FWH, in his secret email account. He "only" met up with one.

OM will absolutely send naked pics of themselves, whether they have had sex with the other person, or not. It's pretty common.

However..a woman, IMO, will not send naked pics unless she has had sex with the man she is sending the pics to..or she intends to have sex with him.

[This message edited by confused615 at 11:19 AM, April 3rd (Friday)]

Done Gone I feel your hurt so much. I am exactly where you are. Even though I am a woman, your story is my story. I have NEVER read a post and responses here that I could so deeply identify with. I want to thank you and all of the respondents here for this thread. I came here for the first time not to pain shop, but to find healing, and this thread has helped with that. It's exactly what I needed to read.

We also had that wonderful marriage for almost 20 years. I trusted my spouse to the ends of the earth. I believed we had solid boundaries that neither one of us would cross. It never occurred to me that my WS would do such a thing, ever. It was the biggest shock of my life. There was no reason in our marriage for an affair (not that there ever is in any marriage.) It really was all about him, his low self-esteem, wanting that high, wanting attention and ego kibbles. It was a boo-hoo woe is me thing. No matter how much I know that, it's hard not to focus on it being about me or our marriage.

This has been the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me (and everyone else here.) I am lost. I am crumbling. I am in a dark place.

I see my husband differently now. The veil has been lifted and now I see a self-centered, sad, pathetic, disloyal, ugly human being where my wonderful husband used to be. I don't know if I will ever be able to see him in a positive light, ever. I am trying, but he is the devil who stuck a knife in my back and left me to bleed and hemorrhage. He stole my joy, peace, and contentment. He did irreparable damage to the family we had, and to my dreams of our life together. He left an empty shell in the place of who I used to be. Someone mentioned you putting your spouse on a pedestal. I am very guilty of that. I actually think putting him on that pedestal and holding him in such high esteem contributed to his awful behavior. But, he has been knocked off that pedestal now. I will never put him on a pedestal again. I never should have in the first place.

I also understand that it feels that there really is nothing they can do. I'm sorry seems so trite for doing something that damages a person at their core. Bringing down the entire world of another human being deserves so much more than I'm sorry. Even if they are doing things the right way, it feels like it can never be enough. It's not enough, because they really can't fathom the pain and depth of what they did and how it affects us. They don't know the soul sucking pain and cannot identify with it in any way. This is why I can see how mad hatters happen. Sometimes for me, it feels like the only way my husband can understand is to feel the insane depths of pain I feel. As much as I want my husband to feel that pain, and to experience what I am going through, I can't do it. It's not who I am. I also know in my heart that he would go off the deep end far more than I have. There would be no chance of R if he felt what I am feeling. None.

I've decided for now, I am going to try to work on me. I am going to focus on healing me instead of focusing on what he did. I'm not going to focus on our marriage until I can get healthy. There is no way we an have a decent marriage until I actively heal.I have poison running through my veins right now, and that is not healthy for me.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. We are not better people than you. Many of us share your feelings and pain. Many of us have had horrible fantasies of retribution. Many of us have hate and anger running through our veins. I think the best thing we can do for us is to realize that we deserve better than that life. We do not deserve to be going through any of this. And, we are the only people who can rescue ourselves from the hell.

[This message edited by franklymydear at 12:02 PM, April 3rd (Friday)]

She said she went to the motel to meet him but nothing happened.

R isn't going to happen with a liar. She's lying, and therefore you're not going to have much a shot at reconciling.

I only believe what I can prove.

If you let go of a rock, you don't have to look to see that it drops. If you know cheating adults checked into a hotel together, after buying condoms, you don't have to have a videotape to know they had sex. Anything else is mean and insulting to you. How humiliating for her to pile on with such implausible lies.

She needs a chance to tell the truth, but the window can't stay open indefinitely. Bigger often posts that there are worse things than divorce, and that's remaining in infidelity.

You don't have to go right out and file today, but you can inform her that you don't believe her for a second. If she doesn't find remorse before long either a) she's really not interested in staying with you and healing, or b) she's still seeing someone, or biding time until things cool off, or c) both. Does it really matter to you which of the above it is?

I agree with Diadact. I think the solution here is a lie detector test. You cannot decide to reconcile with someone until you know the whole truth. You cannot reconcile with a liar. I also think that with the gas lighting and lying she has done, along with your anger and feelings that this is a deal breaker, that divorce is a very reasonable option.

As far as IC, a counselor can help you work through your anger issues. They can help you come to terms with what has happened and help you move towards being emotionally healthy.I am a counselor and have helped others do that, but I haven't been able to help myself do that. It's very difficult to do on your own.

Serve her as soon as possible, better if she is at her parents house. Expose her big time. You need to break her down to earth, then sit back and see how much she is curious or making the hard lifting to get you back.

You will have the time to see the bigger picture than. Believe me there will be more things that will show up, and still hidden to you.

You need to have the full picture and see how she is reacting to it. Take your time, as much as you can. Make her sign on a pre-nup that she will leave with her bags only in the future.

She has done everything imaginable, answered all my questions over and over, gone into therapy and begged and pleaded for me to please give her the opportunity to prove to me that I am her world. She says that she is broken, I am broken too.

One thing she has done is lied, she is still lying to you. She is minimizing the truth, which is the same as lying.

Why would she be in a motel room alone...waiting for the OM obviously. Why would she have condoms in her purse, obviously expected intercourse.

Your wife is lying and that has to stop in order for R.

Tell your wife she needs to take a polygraph in order for you to even begin to retrust her again.

I missed this, who is the OM? How did she meet him.

The affair must be stopped, her words do not mean much until the affair is proven to be over.

She says she is broken, well fine and dandy, she needs to find out WHY she is. What happened to her to allow this to ever happen.

Affairs are one thing, the constant lying and the ease of lying is another problem.

She said Oh God, nothing happened, I am so sorry, I made a stupid mistake.

Its was NO mistake...a mistake is running over your kids tricycle in the driveway.....meeting him in a motel was planned, lied about and covered up...it was NOT a mistake....

My bullshit meter is still twitching.....again...the odds of you finding about the only two times they have met is stifling...she has only admitted to what you know...and that is NOT GOOD, Bro....she didn't confess to anything you didn't know...she got caught....big difference....KWIM?

This OM...you know who he is? Have you notified his wife ? Motels mean he could be married....

He was a connection to a disconnected childhood.

Is he an ex from her past? did they ever date? if so....this could be a "rekindled affair" .....these can be very dangerous....see "Lost and Found Lovers", by Nancy Kalish, Ph.D ....

I found a rubber in her purse, unused,

Just one? To me - another red flag.. Bro...they come in packages of 3 or 5.....who in the hell buys just one??

I am not an Einstein, but what are the chances that the only two times they met up, I would catch them both times?

Im not a statistician...nor an Einstein......but I'd still go get a lottery ticket.....odds of you being that lucky.....its gotta be high....

I don't think you have the whole story.....I think shes only admitted to what you already know and can prove.....this is VERY common among WSs that don't "get it"......

Affairs are a lot like icebergs...not very much above water.....with a whole below the water line.....you know only what is above water...

Bro...im certainly not trying to burst your bubble.....dealing with a cheating wife is not an 8 second ride...(rodeo metaphor - yeah...im a redneck)...this can NOT be smoothed over with a few "im sorry's" , a few trips to a MC, and a weekend of make up sex.......this will take time - and a lot of work on both sides.....

I believe this affair was probably consummated....its been going on a while, you don't have the whole story, and your wife is only confessing to what you already know....yeah...it blows.... Your marriage as you know it is over - But.....(always a but) you two can rebuild another one with each other....IF...she becomes transparent, shows true remorse - not regret, finds out why she cheated on you....etc.

She is in damage control mode....protecting her own ass...(and the OM as well).....do not think for a minute she is NOT in contact with him...especially if she is living at her brothers house and OM is one of his friends....

Take care of yourself...eat something, drink fluids (not beer), exercise helps......beware the "infidelity diet" ...I lost about 45 pounds on it...and I don't recommend it at all !!

At this point in my wifes affair...I didn't believe a word she said, and half of what I saw.....

Good luck...keep us posted....

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 6:41 PM, April 3rd (Friday)]

"I called my friend back and asked him if he would go back and watch the motel and tell me what was going on. He said my wife had already rushed out of the hotel within minutes of him calling me. I asked him to wait and see if anybody else was in the room. He waited several hours and nothing."

Here, there was an intenton for sure, but your phone call certainly had the effect of an ice bucket on her ...

"I found a rubber in her purse, unused, but could not get into her phone or laptop. By this time I was crazy and I was totally helpless."

Finding a box of condoms in your wife's purse is one thing. but when you find half a box or only one condom in your wife's purse, then you know you have a problem. I hope this could be clarified in the polygraph test.

I hope you didn't just hand her phone and laptop back without asking for the passwords. Demand the passwords or else.

The proximity between her brother and the OM also worries me. I would not be surprised that initial contact occured at her brother's place. That's another good question for the polygraph test.