SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I agree with everything posted and plan on filing very soon, like within next week or two. Spoke with my brother, who is going to loan me the money to get started. You guys are right, I was still holding out hope, still being a nice guy and giving her the Plan B she needs to feel safe.

Spoke with my sister last night for 3 hours, who has a psychology degree and is a licensed therapist. She also used to be good friends with my WW until a few years ago, when WW started down the road to crazyville. I got so much insight and good advice that figured I would share for others in a similar situation.

First off, my WW is definitely escaping from reality. She almost definitely still has feelings for me, probably even deep love, but the guilt of her betrayal and the realization of how much work would be involved to fix it are too much for her to face right now. It's easier to try and start fresh in a new situation. Eventually, reality is going to start creeping in, the guilt is not going to just go away, and she's going to start looking for another out. That may be yet another guy, but it's also the most likely time that she would come running back to me, begging for forgiveness. And I can't take her back. She will reach out in desperation but will not truly be ready to reconcile because she is still broke and has not honestly faced her own demons. There is a ton of guilt and unresolved feelings inside her, including the death of her mom just a couple of years ago, that she has buried and never dealt with. That healing has to take place before she is capable of being in ANY serious relationship.

I also asked if there was likely to be any sort of reaction when I finally start dating again. The answer: without a doubt. Whether WW still loves me or not, right now she knows that I still have feelings for her and believes she can come back any time she wants. Seeing me with another woman and realizing that I have actually moved on is going to be a serious blow to her ego. The fact that I want someone else is going to be hard to accept, and it's the other most likely time that WW may try to win me back, seeing her safety net or Plan B slipping away. Or possibly even finally realizing what a huge mistake she has made. But again, regardless of how she reacts, I can't take her back. WW has to go through some sort of bottoming out process, realize that she has problems and needs help to fix them, then actually do the work. I can't do it for her and I can't help her.

So there isn't any realistic possibility of us being together again for quite some time, certainly not until well after I have moved on, and now that I'm being honest with myself, why would I want to subject myself to that sort of pain again once I finally get past it? The possibility is so remote and the time frame so distant that it makes no sense to dwell on it at all. I need to focus on making me the best I can be and taking care of my 4 boys. The rest will take care of itsself. When I'm ready, maybe a year from now, I'll start casually dating again and hopefully find someone better than I ever thought possible.

My WW will always be a part of my life due to the kids, and I really do hope that at some point, we can actually be friends. I'm not there now and maybe will never get there, but I'm not going to shut down the idea. I'm happy for our history, the time we spent together, and so thankful for our 4 kids. I really do hope and pray that we all reach a point of true happiness, whatever that looks like down the road.

I'll continue to post updates, especially if things start to get crazy, but feel like I've made the tough decision and am ready to move forward. Thanks so much everyone on this board for the thoughts, insights, and great advice. Wishing everyone the best of luck in working through their own personal nightmares.

I've been married for 18 years, most of it I thought happily, although there have been problems for the past couple of years.

I agree, my experience has been same as your sister has said. Your wife thinks like she can come back to you anytime she wants, so she has no reason to dump other man. A lot of cheating partly comes from taking the other spouse for granted, on both sides.

I've been married for 18 years, most of it I thought happily, although there have been problems for the past couple of years.

She also used to be good friends with my WW until a few years ago, when WW started down the road to crazyville.

she is still broke and has not honestly faced her own demons. There is a ton of guilt and unresolved feelings inside her, including the death of her mom just a couple of years ago, that she has buried and never dealt with.

Along the 18 years of marriage, how does she go from being OK until being so "broken" on the way to "crazyville?" My dad passed, but it never made me drive crazy to start cheating. I assume if all of us live long enough, our parents will die. What else, if any, caused your wife to cheat, or what was so different about her mother's death that caused her to go "crazyville?" Is this something that always was in her character, just somehow dormant until the trigger of mother passing or some other event? In retrospect, is there something that you could have done something, had you only known what you know now?

wk55, I'm not blaming the multiple affairs on just her mother passing. Yes, there were plenty of problems in the M before that time. I was certainly far from a perfect spouse. And like most BS, yes of course there are things I see now that I wish I would have taken action on at the time. But it's pointless to dwell on it - I can't change the past, and I cannot take the blame for shitty choices and lack of character. All I can do is learn from my mistakes, try not to repeat them, and become a better person.

My point was that there is a LOT of unresolved anger, frustration, sadness, you name it, still bottled up in my WW and she has to address it before she can get better.

HA,

She is not your concern anymore if she gets better or worse. You need to concern on yourself and the kids. You don't need to be friends with her ever. A friend doesn't stab you in the back. So stop thinking about her and don't let her play anymore.

File for divorce and start your new life with your kids. The sooner you detox from her thoughts the better you will be.

Now while she is having the kids, start doing something for yourself, like going out with friends, doing some hobbies, even start dating, and you will see life goes on. Just flash her out of your system. You are much better person and you don't need her trash.

Awesome post, Hurtn!

Are you documenting everything? I recommend you document both physically (in written form, on paper) and in a electronic form (I recommend you send daily mails to your sister - that will add to the veracity of them and give them greater value in court).

Best wishes

HA, I'm happy your sister was able to provide some insight as to what could be going on in your WW head. I hope you can use it to bring some peace to yourself.

I'm with you man. This shit isn't easy.

like most BS, yes of course there are things I see now that I wish I would have taken action on at the time. But it's pointless to dwell on it - I can't change the past, and I cannot take the blame for shitty choices and lack of character. All I can do is learn from my mistakes, try not to repeat them, and become a better person.

This shows just how good of a man you are. Despite your WW choices and actions, you are willing to look at the mistakes you made in your marriage and learn from them. It takes a strong person to do such a thing.

I hope, for your boys sake and their mother's sake, that one day she does 'wake up' and face her issues.

You take care of yourself man. I can feel your pain in your words. Infidelity, divorce, it all hurts like hell. Sending some strength.

Agree with Rafi. Time for you to stop trying to figure her out or wonder when or if she will come to her senses. You have stated with good reason why you cannot ever take her back .

You will help your healing if you stop the analysis.

You were in the same marriage . You did not choose to have an affair , then move right on to the next man before the dust settles .

Take the advice . You are not friends with her, and you do not ever need to be . She future is not your concern

Your post suggests that you are finding a healthy outlook. I am happy for you.

Be sure to remember to protect yourself legally until the divorce is final. In other words, keep your guard up.

As we all have witnessed in other people's stories, it can get ugly when you least expect it.

Good for you for valuing yourself and your kids above all else.

Thanks again everyone for the replies. I do feel like I've reached a point of firm commitment on what I need to do and am proceeding with D soon. Was feeling pretty good most of yesterday but had a rough night last night. Not much sleep. I wouldn't say I had mind movies, but more like bad dreams. Not sexual ones either, such as her with OM.

The most vivid one I can remember was that it was Thanksgiving and WW was planning to be at our house with my family. She was even helping to cook. But she also had plans with her "new" family and the entire time she was with us, she seemed pre-occupied with where she was going next, kept talking about it and seemed much more excited about that than spending time with us. I got so angry that I just let her have it, calling her every name in the book at top of my lungs and stormed out. Keep in mind, I have never acted that way towards her in real life. Through all this shit, I have rarely even raised my voice.

So I kept bouncing between being sad and totally pissed most of the night. I guess maybe that's normal but it still sucks. I just wanna be done with the whole thing and move on. I'm really trying but every time I think I'm getting there, seems like I slide back a few feet. For people who have made it out the other side, how long does it usually take to disconnect enough that you quit thinking about this shit every day?

Brother, you might as well ask a war vet how long it takes to get over PTSD. It just depends on the person. It depends on what you do to help yourself cope with your loss(es) and what you do when you get 'triggers'.

Much like alcoholics, its just one day at a time. I think we on SI should copyright some 12 step program that we can sell to the general public. Have you seen the advertisements for the 'wizards' and 'witch doctors' that can magically make your WS love you again???

Wizards and witch doctors? LOL, no I haven't seen anything like that. Sad thing is I'll bet a bunch of poor desperate souls fall for it and send money. I would be more interested in someone helping me NOT love my WW. If anyone comes across that magical pill, please send me the info.

[This message edited by HurtnAlone at 11:36 AM, May 10th (Sunday)]

HnA

Keep the focus and your efforts on you and the kids.

Stick to NC and communication by text only.

It is best for both of you.

Just curious. Is your WW seeing the kids today for Mothers Day?

HM

Happy, yes my WW is getting all the kids this afternoon for Mother's Day. Planning to BBQ burgers and dogs. That may be part of what set me off; knowing I was going to be totally alone for most of the day while she's enjoying time as a family. I'm heading out of town shortly to visit my mom first, then sister so that will keep me busy. Kids will be back this evening so I'll come home in time to do the normal Sunday night routine of baths, finishing homework, etc.

I am staying strictly NC for at least the next few weeks, text only. In around a month, she plans on coming to move most of her remaining stuff out so that will be a hard day. And I'm not trusting her here alone so have to just bite the bullet and get through it. Hopefully by then it won't be so hard. WW tried calling me again yesterday, even after the big talk we had recently. Of course, I let it go to VM and then immediately texted her that I was no longer taking phone calls, at least not for several weeks. She replied OK so hopefully finally got the message. Not sure why she's so insistent on the phone calls.

Just thought of something else that came up the other day on the phone and wanted to vent about it. WW actually had the nerve to tell me she figured the ONLY reason I didn't want a D was because it was going to be expensive. So 24 years of being together, 18 years of it married, 4 kids together, and it all boils down to I only wanted to stay with her because it was the cheapest way to go.

OMG. I sort of lost it at that point and actually broke into tears as I tried to explain that maybe, just maybe I didn't want a D because the person I cared about more than life itsself just walked out on me and our kids without giving us a chance to fix it. None of us got a say-so, she made the only decision that matters. I mentioned the sleepless nights, barely eating for days, etc. That shut her up and I needed to get it off my chest, but not sure if she even believed it or cared.

She also thought the only reason I was wanting text only was so that I had a paper trail of everything communicated between us. Obviously she's been talking to someone about legal matters, because that thought would have never crossed her mind otherwise. Again, I had to try and explain how it had nothing to do with that, but I was just trying to protect myself because I suffer for hours or days every time I even hear her voice. Think she finally got that message at least.

It's just nuts how far a WS goes in their own mind to justify what they have done. But yeah, I'm done trying to figure out the whys and what ifs. It doesn't matter anymore. Just working to get through each day and hope it gets a little easier than the last.

Two ways that I see to interpret the phone calls she insists on making: 1) she's still trying to keep you as Plan B. She's fishin to see if you'll break down and take the calls. If you do, then that means she's still got you as backup. 2) she's hoping you won't answer... If you don't, then that means she's justified in her decision to leave. Much like my WW would look for any reason to be mad at me before I went NC over a month ago. Its a damned if you and damned if you don't situation for you, but its just something you'll have to suck up, brother.

Again, in my less-than-professional outlook on WW's, the depths have no low in which they'll go to keep themselves buried in the fantasy. That's the beauty of fantasy-land, she can change the plot of the fantasy story to justify how it ends for herself. I hate to say it, brother, but you teling her how much it affects you will only drive her further into the fantasy. She KNOWS she hurt you, but she doesn't want to accept that she's responsible for it. The more you go on about how unhappy and hurt you are the further she'll push her sense of responsibility down to ensure that she's not the bad guy in her own fantasy. I'm sure she told you that "you're doing this to yourself" or that you "you need to butch up in front of the kids". That's what I heard. I heard that I was only doing this to be the 'good guy' and make her look bad...

Army, very perceptive as usual, and probably right on the money. If I had to take a guess right now, I would say I'm Plan B. But as time goes on and she starts to feel more guilty with no outlet, I'm sure she will start to get pissed and then it will switch over to becoming a justification of her decision to leave. Either way, I'm not talking to her.

HurtnAlone - I LOVE your sister's assessment of the WS. 'It's easier to try and start fresh in a new situation." <cowards>

I'm positive this is my situation.

She's a gem and the entire advice she gave you helped me tremendously. Please tell her so - she hit the nail on the head for me.

And - 'Was feeling pretty good most of yesterday but had a rough night last night. Not much sleep. I wouldn't say I had mind movies, but more like bad dreams.'

This roller coaster can give you some very strange dreams, once you get some sound sleep. I had many after X that were actual nightmares, where I was screaming at somebody - even his sister (never him for some reason) and sobbed and sobbed, and woke up all teary and jittery because it felt so real. Those nightmares take you off your feet for a whole day.

And, then - guess what happened to me...I started getting food-dreams. Seriously. They replaced the nightmares of him. I imagine it's because I live alone and don't know how to eat-for- one so am always scratching around for food..The dreams are these huge buffets of cream puffs and pastries (things I never eat) and I could never get hold of them. Kept losing my plate. Weird - but they happen nightly now. Not sure what they mean?

Believe your nightmares to be a stress-reducer from your body. Like getting rid of smoking and you cough for days in bed. And, one day you wake up Clean! And full of nicer dreams. On my way, but wish I could think up something for dinner tonight. :)

Wishing you better sleep and dreams ahead. I promise you, they will come..

I am so sorry you are going through this! Good luck, and stay strong!

SheWiz, funny enough I was sitting right there talking to my sis when you posted, so I actually read your reply to her and thanked her for you. She said to tell you she was very happy to have helped. She really is an intelligent, compassionate person and has helped me tremendously over the past few weeks.

In fact my entire perception of her has changed through this ordeal. I finally realized that my bratty little sister has become a full-fledged, responsible adult with a TON of good advice. I'm the oldest brother and my 2 younger brothers still don't really get it. Have been telling them they need to spend some time with her and try to actually get to know who she is now, and forget who they think she is based on 20 years ago.

LOL at the food dreams. I know I've had some strange dreams before but don't think they ever centered around food. Guess that's far better than what comes right after DDay.

Quick status update: started a little rough this morning, after the nearly sleepless night. Think Mother's Day was a trigger for me, and was still recovering from that phone call. But visiting mom and sis did me a world of good. Came home, made my boys dinner, got them into bed, and feeling overall just fine. Hoping to make up the sleep I lost last night and start out with a fresh week.

Found a local group of people going through D or separation which meets for social activities every week so planning on having dinner with them on Thursday and hopefully make some new friends. If I can just get through the whole week w/o having to see or talk with WW, think I'll be feeling pretty good by the end. Wish me luck.