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Thanks for the update! It's great that you're reading and attending the group, way to go! When the time comes and finances allow, individual counselling might complement your efforts tremendously.

As you said, it's your life, and only you know yourself, so if you think you can handle daily interactions with WW and being friends with her, then try it. You can always withdraw if you get hurt again. Just make sure you don't have sex with her in a moment of weakness:)

It's also great that you've been feeling out the dating situation and that you're being careful while doing that.

Keep talking to us, we're here for you!

Best wishes

You won't need your bunker with me. But just keep in mind how attraction to the opposite sex often clouds our judgement, and re-evaluate your actions often (both towards your ex and towards new women). Personally, when "falling in love" I have sincerely felt and done and said things that I later regretted.

[This message edited by sensibletinch at 6:42 PM, July 7th (Tuesday)]

Been a couple of weeks so wanted to give an update. I finally cut off WW completely from any financial support as of last Monday. Probably should have never agreed to help her in the first place, but we all do crazy and/or stupid things in that first few weeks after DDay. As you can imagine, she was anything but thrilled. It started as texting, and after she got the bad news immediately wanted to talk on the phone, which I rejected. Finally, after 40 missed calls in 4 hours, I agreed to talk. As suspected, it was not a pleasant conversation and lead to yelling on both sides, and me giving her a piece of my mind about what she had done to me and our family. That ended after around 10 minutes and since then, barely any contact at all.

We are now down to very bare min texting about kids only. In past week, we've exchanged maybe 8 or 9 texts total. Often, she will just text the kids directly and have them relay a message to me. The good news is that it is really helping me detach from her, and probably what I needed to do weeks ago. Now I don't need any excuses, since she is on the same page and doesn't want to hear from me either.

I spoke with my attorney last Wed for 2 hours and explained the entire situation. He told me I have a very strong case for child custody and will likely not end up having to pay more than around $300/month total, including spousal support. I am not filing yet, because right now, there is no support order in place, meaning I don't have to give WW a dime. Once one of us files, that starts the clock and a temp support order will be issued within 4 weeks. So for now, I'm playing the waiting game. If she wants D so badly, she can raise the money to hire an attorney and pay the $230 fee to file. My attorney told me there is almost no advantage to filing first, and I have such a strong case that I'm not worried about it. Obviously I can't wait indefinitely, but I'll give it another 3-4 months and see what happens. If I can get away from having to pay her that entire time, good for me.

On just a funny note, I found out that WW's central AC died and they don't have money to fix it, so gonna be a long hot summer. We hit 91 degrees this past Sat. The kids came home Fri night complaining how miserable it was in the house and they don't even like the idea of going over right now on these hot days. As a bonus, her car AC doesn't work either. Oh, you gotta love the karma bus.

Thanks for the update.

Have you been instructed by your lawyer on how to document things for custody purposes?

How have you been feeling?

What have you been doing for yourself, for your mental and physical health?

Are you getting support from friends and family?

Keep talking to us, we're here for you!

Best wishes

((( )))

Have you been instructed by your lawyer on how to document things for custody purposes?

I'm simply keeping general notes in a spreadsheet with dates and times of when I spend time with kids and when she does. Attorney said that was fine.

How have you been feeling?

Better overall, but still bouncing around. Sometimes I desperately want her back, and other times I hate her with a passion. Once in a great while, I don't think about her at all, but unfortunately it still isn't that often.

What have you been doing for yourself, for your mental and physical health?

Working out at the gym several times a week for physical. Mentally, I'm heavily involved with my church, and do daily reading on a couple of forums, including this one. Also reading some self help books. It really is amazing how little I knew about having a healthy relationship. Some of this stuff should be required reading before a marriage license is issued. Better late than never I suppose. I certainly won't be repeating the same mistakes next time around.

Are you getting support from friends and family?

Yes, family has been great. Have been spending time with old and new friends as well. It does really help to keep busy. But most of the time WW is still on my mind. And I hate that her kids are basically learning how to live w/o a mother. I hope that at some point she snaps out of the fog, at least in terms of wanting to spend time with her boys again. I have a feeling that she will eventually, but it's likely to be months or maybe years down the road.

Quick general question. Since the big blowout on money last week, WW has been avoiding contacting me at all, and going directly to kids to set up plans for picking them up, etc. So far, it's worked out OK, but it just annoys me. Like she's doing this for payback. We don't have any court order but the general setup has been she takes them around 6 or 7pm every M, W, and F. Would it be advisable for me to send a text asking her to send info regarding the kids? Or just let her keep doing what she's been doing, and assume that they are mine until 7pm every night, and if that conflicts with her plans, oh well, since she doesn't bother to inform me.

Assume nothing. You know the old saying...

My initial reaction is that she's trying to put the kids in the middle, and that's just wrong. She doesn't need to be making them act as her intermediary between you. The picture I have in my head is sitting around the table saying "I'm not talking to your father, tell him xxxxx." Very jr. high.

My initial reaction is that she's trying to put the kids in the middle, and that's just wrong. She doesn't need to be making them act as her intermediary between you. The picture I have in my head is sitting around the table saying "I'm not talking to your father, tell him xxxxx." Very jr. high.

Well, that's it. She'll make plans with them, and then sort of assume that the message will be relayed. I end up asking the kids what the plans are. It wasn't like this until the whole money blowup argument. Yes, childish, but guess I shouldn't be surprised. My stance is going to be if I have plans with the kids and they're out with me, then oh well. If she can't bother to do me the courtesy of asking me in advance, then I feel no obligation to make them available. There is currently no court order so it's entirely whatever we work out between us, which I suppose means nobody can get in legal trouble regardless of what happens. Maybe if she gets burned a couple of times, she'll start to act like an adult. It's so ridiculous.

Thanks for the update!

Just make sure you also have a back-up copy of the spreadsheets to which she can't gain access to. Maybe send the spreadsheet to a good friend via e-mail each day so it will be proof of when you made it AND so that you will still have it even if she hacks your e-mail.

With regards to the current situation - your lawyer probably explained this, but most likely the longer the current situation sticks, the more likely it is that the courts will simply validate it. So if you're satisfied with the current system/allocation of time with the kids, I'd try to not rock the boat as long as possible.

Best wishes, keep talking to us!

Thanks Hobbes. I like your idea on sending the spreadsheet thru email to have a date stamp. In fact, I could just send it to myself. I have multiple email accounts. My attorney did say that the status quo on custody was likely to stick, especially if it had been going on for months. So right now, it's to my advantage to keep doing what I'm doing, documenting everything and just let WW keep digging her own hole. As a bonus, I don't have to pay a dime to her until she files for D.

I'm still struggling with the near total blackout on contact. Up until recently, we at least had almost daily texting. I've had to hold myself back several times from firing off some random text about the kids. But I'm staying strong and hope that it gets easier as the days go by. I'll reply if she initiates, but only in short, direct answers to questions about kids. Really hate that is has to be this way.

Well, had a lot of unexpected drama earlier this week, this past Wed to be exact. It's normally a night that WW takes the kids and she called me around 6pm. Now I normally don't take calls from her but since it was a Wed I thought it might have something to do with kids and I answered. She told me she was not taking the kids that night and I could tell she was in tears. Now I probably should have excused myself on the spot but I took the bait and asked what was wrong. Turns out her and OM got in a huge fight and she was talking about moving out. Of course this immediately got my attention and I foolishly went full throttle into BFF mode. I listened to her complaints, and validated her concerns, while doing my best NOT to encourage that she try and work it out with OM. She even mentioned moving back home, almost as if it was a given, and I immediately said I did not think it was a good idea, was not fair to the kids or me. I was a little scared at that point, since I had no idea if I actually could keep her out from a legal standpoint, as neither of us has filed for D yet.

So we talked for about 20 min, she hung up and said she would be in touch soon. About an hour later, she texted that she was in fact moving out, and planned to stay with a friend out of town for the next 2 nights while she figured out what to do next. Asked if I would mind checking her tire pressure, which I agreed to do, and asked if she could have some money for gas. Sadly, I agreed to that as well - my head was spinning with the thought of her leaving the A and I was doing everything in my power to push her along.

So she showed up to the house that evening, said a very quick Hello to the kids while I checked the tires, took $20 for gas and headed out. I asked her to text me when she arrived so I knew she made it safe. Later that night, I had not heard so sent a TM to confirm if she made, she replied and said she had. Then I told her to remember she was not alone and we would figure something out. I know - I'm cringing myself as I think about it. She fired back "Thank You it means ALOT - you have no idea" and then an "I love you", to which I did not reply.

Next morning, she's firing off a series of texts detailing her apparent all night discussion on phone and text with OM, complaining about him, giving me details of what he said, etc. I was very brief with replies and tried to stay out of the middle, but again, I'm just kicking myself now for getting involved at all. Needless to say, she drove back into town that afternoon, made up with the prick, and now all is happy in fantasy land again.

So...very hard lesson learned. I got excited at the thought of WW leaving OM and allowed myself to cushion her pending fall. It was a mistake and I fully realize it, but nothing more to do now except learn from it and move on. Since that time, it's been back to mostly min contact about kids only. And I did consult with my attorney and discovered that yes, I can legally keep WW out of the house so at least I am prepared for the next inevitable breakdown in that house of cards she's living under.

Other than that, I'm in a holding pattern on filing for D. My attorney confirmed I don't have to pay a penny for support w/o a court order, which will not happen until someone files. So I'm certainly in no rush to do it. When WW files, I'll be prepared to defend myself and my children to best of my ability.

My attorney confirmed I don't have to pay a penny for support w/o a court order, which will not happen until someone files. So I'm certainly in no rush to do it. When WW files, I'll be prepared to defend myself and my children to best of my ability.

I am not a lawyer, but I have read on here, it is important that you file first.

Also, your wife abandoned her children and the family home. That is important.

You might want to talk to or at least read about men's rights on a website like Cordell and Cordell.

Your wife just slapped you in the face again and remember, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

She comes crying to you, takes your money, doesn't live up to her agreement taking the kids on Wed night and then makes up with the OM.

I think you really need to stop the fantasy she is coming back home to you and the kids. She is gone mentally and in just my opinion, I think you need to move forward with your and your kids life.

So...very hard lesson learned. I got excited at the thought of WW leaving OM and allowed myself to cushion her pending fall. It was a mistake and I fully realize it, but nothing more to do now except learn from it and move on.

You also learned that you can learn. Again- you learned that you can learn. Think about it.

Of course you got excited (you're human!). But you also recognize your mistake, which is HUGE. Self-awareness & recognition. good on you!

Hang in there HnA

I am not a lawyer, but I have read on here, it is important that you file first.

I've read that a lot of places online as well so specifically addressed it with my attorney. He said it makes practically no difference who files first. Maybe that depends on the state where you are located, but this guy has been practicing family law in this state for over 20 years so I trust him on that issue. Obviously I can't drag things out forever but another few months won't hurt a thing. Why should I come up with the filing fee and pay an attorney, when I wasn't the one who tanked the M or even wanted a D? I'm logging daily activity and will be fully prepared to defend myself when we eventually get to that point.

I think you really need to stop the fantasy she is coming back home to you and the kids. She is gone mentally and in just my opinion, I think you need to move forward with your and your kids life.

It's been a rough road, but overall I agree. I've been holding onto a fantasy. However, that being said, I do still want to save my M. I realize that's not a popular option around these parts, and everyone may think I'm crazy after what WW has done to me. But in the end, it's still my life and I don't believe D is ever the best option, given any reasonable chance to save the M. That doesn't mean I allow myself to be a doormat, but it does mean that I keep the door open just a crack and allow myself to hold onto a little bit of hope.

In the mean time, I'm moving on with life, becoming the best father I can be, and making as many new friends as possible. I am assuming that a D is coming and, if so, then I'll deal with it and I will be OK. In short, the only thing which I do not plan on doing any time soon is dating, which is probably not a good idea whether I get a D soon or not. For now, I'm on min contact mode with WW, children only, the financial support has been cut off indefinitely (until a court order) and I won't be running to her rescue the next time some tragedy occurs in her life related to OM. Should she ever reach a point where she leaves him on her own, expresses TRUE remorse, and decides that she wants to work on our M, then I will have to decide at that time whether I still want it. But at least it will be my decision, not hers, not my family's, and not advice from an online forum. I really do appreciate all the help and advice provided here, but this is the path I am taking, and I will continue to provide updates, should anyone be interested in following.

I've seen myself make some of the types of mistakes you've just made, Hurtin.

I let myself get sucked into an hour and a half walk with my STBXWW some time ago.

She talked about giving her OM the side eye. Wondering if he is a good guy or not (Do you really have to wonder if a man that bangs other dude's wives is a good person? I swear, adultery makes people just go stupid.)

She was talking about being depressed, knowing she's wrecked her life, wanting to get herself into IC... I went into full on BFF mode.

Next day, it all went backwards. She loves the guy, her life is great. Lesson learned, I gave her ego kibbles and that's all she was looking for.

Don't beat yourself up, Hurtin. But, learn as I did.

I keep a counter on my desk at work. It's in the style of one of those workplace accident signs. Says, "This idiot has gone X days since breaking no contact." I add to the number every day. If I reset it, my colleagues at work that know my situation give me crap about it. I gave my boss permission to give me a shoulder punch. He's 6'6" and in extremely good shape. Just a couple of those punches and I am not looking for any more!

My point is, find incentives to not talk to her. Negative reinforcement you want to avoid, positive reinforcement in the form of some kind of reward ("If I can go 30 days without talking to her, I'll buy myself a new blah blah blah!")

HA, your WW has relegated you to just BFF status. She isn't ever going to get it until you:

A) Serve her D papers

B) knows you really have moved on and aren't her BFF anymore

C) knows you are dating other women.

She still thinks you're on the backburner, slowly basting over the idea of getting back together. She realized you were drying up some so she slapped on some more emotional sauce to keep you wet and clinging.

My analogy is actually making me hungry, but kidding aside she'll keep yapping to you for ego kibbles again and again. The problem with hanging on and waiting for her to make the move is that when you decide enough is enough then that exit may not come soon enough for you. I understand having your pace along this journey but make sure that finish line doesn't keep moving back again and again, then turning your "moving forward" back into "stuck in limbo" again.

HnA

Take this advice.

The next time she has a crisis with her Affair Partner do not help at all.

But more importantly the next time she has a crisis with anything (as long as your kids are not involved) do not help her.

Because if you keep being the shoulder she gets to cry on, or the man that keeps on giving out a helping hand she will never miss you nor realize just what she had willingly given up.

So stop being nice. You can be civil.

And IMHO she does not deserve that.

She will never, ever come back to you if she does not learn to respect you.

And now you have learned the ultimate lesson. Respect needs to come before love.

The next time she texts "I love you" reply back and say "I do not want your love. But your son's and I sure would love your respect."

And she will never learn to respect any of you until she learns to respect herself.

HM

Everybody say it with me:

"You can't nice her back."