SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ICan, you're getting a lot of great advice, and everything can seem overwhelming. If you ever need to take a day for yourself. (Kids are in school, just sitting on the xbox/playstation all day and fucking off, or watching a marathon of something on tv, etc) just do it. One day will not make or break your plans.

Just understand that depending on where you are, the decompressing you normally would feel might be impossible to attain. That doesn't mean distracting yourself from the circus for a day won't help.

Strength, brother!

Exactly nononsense. A great point about vacation - IF they really are on vacation (another leap of faith, remember at this point you can't trust your wife to tell the truth about anything) and he contacts her then it's a reasonable expectation that they have channels other than corporate messenger to talk. If she says a word then ask to see the message.

Actually – because of the work connection and the fact they are allowed “work-only” communications then there is no way ICO can tell if WW learns of exposure to OMW through “accepted” channels or “secret” channels.

All OM has to do is pick up his office phone and tell WW about it. WW can’t refuse to take the phone because her job has been given priority over the marriage by ICO and WW.

I’m guessing a company with international sites has ip (computer) phones so there won’t even be any trace or log for the call.

What ICO needs to monitor is his WW reaction to getting the news. She should be pissed and sad, but she shouldn’t place BLAME on ICO for exposing.

Regarding the advice on the VAR there is one immense caveat:

Technically recording your WW private conversations without her knowledge can be illegal in your state/country and can be viewed as domestic abuse.

Your WW sounds like a pretty smart woman (despite the stupidity of having an affair). If she finds one of the VAR’s and traces it back to you then you can expect consequences IF this leads to divorce.

What you want is deniability and no way to trace the VAR’s to you. Purchase them with cash, preferably at a large mall far away from home and completely refuse ANY knowledge of their existence. Who knows – maybe it’s industrial espionage?

I figured if I heard anything from her then she is trapped. She's damn smart. She probably won't say anything if the OM does contact her about me talking to his wife.

So what the OBS said to me was:

Hi XXXX - this is with my family and me now, and so I would appreciate you not contacting me again. I wish wish the best for you and your family. Sincerely, XXXX

She has blocked me from her facebook. It could be that he intercepted. I don't know but the wording doesn't seem like something a man would say.

I already screwed the pooch on the VAR then. My name is on the title though. I'm not sure if that makes a difference. It's for reconciliation anyway. If we divorce then oh well...

yep. I am thinking he intercepted it.

Either it's her and she's rugsweeping or living in a life of accepted infidelity or he intercepted it. The vast majority of betrayed spouses would want to find out more.

Two days to attorney time. Keep everything going. Don't abandon the VAR

It's possible. I don't think I would have written it that way but that's me.

I'll maybe know more come next week or not. The great big black hole of not knowing...

Even if she knows about the VAR, then keep it going on you anyway. It simply changes from an investigative tool to a tool for protection you from a false domestic violence claim. So no sweat on that, k?

Hi XXXX - this is with my family and me now, and so I would appreciate you not contacting me again. I wish wish the best for you and your family. Sincerely, XXXX

She has blocked me from her facebook. It could be that he intercepted. I don't know but the wording doesn't seem like something a man would s

No way to tell. Please lets stop making your wife the smartest thing that walked the planet. We'll see how smart she is now that she has a husband who is not clueless and who has decided not to be a doormat.

O<, its with her family. One thing is for sure. If it was actually her, and if he is in "hot water" , he is probably going to tell your wife he is done with her. If you catch her communicating with him like nothing ever happened, then you know either he intercepted it or gaslighted her. The important thing is you CATCH HER.

Ask your attorney about the VAR. But i will tell you I have not read here about any WW suing her BH over a VAR. Especially if in your state infidelity has nothing to do with terms of divorce. if you divorce and she has one half her income to live on, i think the last thing on her mind will be suing you over the VAR when you have less money than her to take.

ou MUST have eyes and ears on her and USE THE VAR. just be very careful to follow the instructions so it does not get discovered by accident, and be careful when checking it.

If she is still talking to him, that VAR is not going to be in that car for long. She will either run her mouth to her girlfriend, or talk to him real soon.

No. Don‘t ask your attorney about the VAR. There is no way the attorney can say anything other than it’s not allowed. Once you know it’s not allowed then you can’t claim you didn’t know IF this becomes an issue. If you however don’t know better then you can claim lack of knowledge and/or that you were recording joint conversations only (that’s allowed).

You can easily google for precedents for what can happen if a spouse intrudes on what is legally considered considered “private”, such as reading her e-mail, secret recording and unknown electronic surveillance.

It’s a thin line. If you have the VAR in a car that only she uses then it’s probably not allowed. Even if your name is on the lease. If however you use the car then it’s OK. Same with computers: Work or personal computer and you can’t legally monitor it, family computer then its fine. Same with phone-records; same family plan yes, personal or work no.

What’s important IMHO is how you use any info you gain with the VAR. Use it directly and she will realize you are monitoring her. IMHO the key element in using VAR’s is deny, deny, deny. You don’t quote verbatim, you find ways that might sound reasonable as to how you know.

About OMW reaction. Well… maybe it was intercepted, maybe it wasn’t. You can either try to get a more direct link to her (google BT (or British Telecom) directory) or – as I have suggested – talk to your WW manager or supervisor. The goal in this exposure is not to wreck OM marriage or even to let his wife know – the goal in this exposure is to make it harder for your WW and OM to keep on with the affair.

What are your guys thoughts about when to let ICan's wife know about contacting her boyfriend's wife? I was thinking after he got back from vacation and had full use of company property to communicate with her again, if she doesn't tip her hand, to let her know that he contacted her over Facebook but then allude to a significant amount of other plans.

Personally I *think* I would stick with the PI route but if that was really his wife then you don't want to harass.

My gut is that it was intercepted though. But I'm a skeptical, jaded asshole in full disclosure

If you ever get caught with the VAR play dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. She's been fucking someone else so you're afforded this white lie.

Even suggest 'maybe that asshole had someone put it there to see if I was going to contact his wife again?'.

But this is when you get to gas light.

You will not get caught though. Cheaters think that they are better than their ignorant spouses. Right now she thinks that she is in the clear

I am pretty sure your message was intercepted. Your next step is to wait for OM to return to the US and work on finding his address in the UK. Then send a letter giving as much info as you know about OM and his affair with your wife. Include the timeline if possible. Give OBS info so she can contact you back to confirm she has received the letter. Make sure OBS must sign to receive this letter. Good luck!

WOW Unloved coming in right now is like Han Solo coming in when Luke was in the Death Star trench at the end of Star Wars.

As a huge nerd, and a guy that's been kicked when he's down this year... this made me smile from ear to ear. I'm happy to help where I can. I've not entered JFO for some time.

ICanOvercome, I would advise caution on the VAR. I know it can be useful. But, my STBXWW found the one I planted in her car. I can never be too sure, but she claims to have taken it to the local police station and said she could have pressed charges if she wanted to. I live in Texas, I do know it's illegal to record her when I am not party to the conversation. If what she said is true (and that's a big if - REMEMBER: Believe NONE of what they SAY and at most HALF of what they DO.) then I narrowly escaped the consequences. I'm not a fan of the VAR approach. There are plenty of other ways to get your answers. Keyloggers, spy apps on her phone, etc.

Your woman is not a genius and she is not stupid. She is somewhere in between. There is an ordinary affair, your wife seems very ordinary.

If other man knows you tried to contact his wife, he will call your wife a and then your wife will tell you. Any other action is very, very unlikely.

If your wife has been pining for other man for over 2 years, your wife knows all about the other man's wife. Your wife checked out the competition.

The way I found out how to contact the other man's wife was that I asked my wife. My wife knew what I probably would do if she didn't cooperate. I was pretty sure I would divorce if she didn't cooperate, but my wife was absolutely sure of it. I didn't care about my wife knowing that I would tell the other man's wife because I know I would have tracked her down whether I had to get a private investigator and I had enough evidence that my wife or the other man couldn't refute knowing I have the goods on them.

I expect your wife will bring this up tonight about you did to try to contact other man's wife.

You know, the more this goes on, I'm not really in pain. I'm just really confused about what to do right now. I hate the not knowing if she is going to do this again or if it is still going on. Maybe it isn't going on right now, but it could start up in a few weeks/months.

We had another MC session today. It was useful if we R. Our communication sucks. I sort of can't deny that I want our life to be back where it was.

For some reason, I think that my WW and I could be awesome again. It is the uncertainty that she'll do this again that is gnawing at me. The knowledge that she could do this one...

The MC asked me today "what does proof look like?" I didn't have an answer for that. You can give proof that an affair is going on. How can you give proof that an affair isn't on?

I guess I wonder if we fix the stuff that's wrong in our relationship, will be an issue? There is love between us, I can feel that. Is it worth all of the uncertainty?

You know, the more this goes on, I'm not really in pain. I'm just really confused about what to do right now.

You're on the emotional rollercoaster. You're going to wake up feeling like a different person every day. That does not help the confusion.

Believe me, you're going to feel more emotions than you even knew existed. It's normal. Let them wash over you, confront them, but do not let them drive your actions.

Remain level-headed, continue MC. See your lawyer. Get all your options.

marriage counseling? Stop it right now. Just stop going. Go to IC. both of you. until you're IC's say you're both ready. Why? Because she is lying to both you and the counselor.

The stuff in your relationship didn't make her cheat. There are plenty of people in bad relationships that don't cheat. The correct method for that is:

Bring to your partner's attention

Request MC

Attend MC

If that doesn't work, look for another method (religious? social? family intervention? etc.)

Bring it again to partners attention.

File for divorce.

Divorce.

Find someone else.

What's she's done?

Brought or didn't bring to your attention.

Found someone else and "got even" or found someone else and said "forget about ICan".

Nothing you did or didn't do could have stopped her from cheating. Get that through your head right now. Say it freaking outloud several times if you have to. Meditate on it.

And the not being in pain? Your in shock and possibly denial. The pain will come. Believe me. Have your journal habit in place when it does, because that shit will hit you like a ton of bricks (made out of shit).

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 2:05 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

I feel like the actions that I am taking currently are a sure path to divorce. I am acting untrustworthy and sneaky. I now am hiding stuff. This sucks.

What kinds of questions should I ask the lawyer?

I feel like the actions that I am taking currently are a sure path to divorce. I am acting untrustworthy and sneaky. I now am hiding stuff. This sucks.

And she acted that way, and was your first reaction to divorce her? No, it wasn't.

You aren't being sneaky. You are acting in an effort for self-preservation. Unless you want to continue to share your wife, you don't have any other options.

The divorce stuff? Simply not her business. She fired you from that job, remember? You cannot nice her back. This shit is counter-intuitive as fuck, I know. To save the marriage, you have to be willing to leave it.

That includes emotionally ready.

You are not acting shady and sneaky. You are dealing with a person who has lied to the one person she promised that she would not lie to. You are dealing with a lier in the only way that one can.

If you do not do things this way then even if she had this miraculous recovery then your insides will always gnaw at you because you didn't force the whole truth out. It is a lose/lose. If you don't do it this way then she could very well continue her love affair because of your blind trust.

Her husband losing trust in her is a consequence of her actions. These feelings of being an asshole for snooping is a result of the pain she inflicted on you. You are a victim.

If you want these feelings to stop then you need to either divorce her, which is fair, or pop her fairy tale love affair like the awful festering pimple that it is