SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

SI will be here.

You go do what you need to do.

We're sending good vibes.

VAR confirms that she is not seeing him anymore. On the VAR, she said that they've both been really good.

I'm a little shocked.

That said she said an article that said that she shouldn't tell me the whole truth about what she's going through.

I don't know. That's mostly good news.

She and her friend are talking about getting through the affair and working it out with their husbands. Pretty decent news actually.

I have to say that it isn't all good news. She talked about how she was working through stuff that she wasn't going to tell me about.

She sort of brushed on their sex life but I was glad to hear they only had sex three or four times. Sounds fucked up that I consider that to be a good thing.

She was still sad about a gift that he got her for her birthday. He forgot it when they met up earlier this month. Now she'll never get it or know what it was. Boohoo.

She seemed very much like someone they still had the fog but was realistic about what it was. She isn't sure about us and my erratic mood swings but damn this was a hell of a good call to catch!

good ... its good to use the VAR because you can sometimes get good news from it and a realistic picture ... good for u!!!!

she still has a ways to go. selfish seems to be a habit that is hard to break.

keep up with your self care.

That's great that you are getting information. "Been good" sounds squishy to me, but you're overloaded and it's not material to discuss that now :)

Continue to let it process . We will be here for when you need us.

Good luck dude.

So let me ask this. What's the recommendation on when you know your spouse is at least trying but not through the fog? Keep with the 180 because that's for me, but I can't think all of the 180 is applicable.

She is not trying yet. She may think she's trying, but she's not.

You're married to someone capable of doing what she's done. She'll do it again unless she wants to not be that person. She doesn't, right now she's just deal with the immediate fallout of you catching her and her boyfriend.

You're feeling good right now, I don't want to burst your bubble, but this is when it gets tough (which I've alluded to a few times). Your biggest enemy is to come: yourself.

You're a bit in overload still - we heard you loud and clear. Right now you need to continue journaling (this will 'even out' the mood swings and keep you accountable to yourself) and, more than ANYTHING else, keep that lawyer appointment.

She thinks your unpredictable right now, that's good. She will respect you again, even if this doesn't work out. I promise you.

So let me ask this. What's the recommendation on when you know your spouse is at least trying but not through the fog?

Make sure the affair is killed and stayed good and done. Quit the job. Avoid temptation.

The affair ended an unnatural death. She did not want to stop the affair. He did not want to stop the affair. She loved her. He at least loved sex, maybe he loved her. Then you found out, and you "forced" them to stop.

He lives in UK. Her job, she has to go to UK. Maybe if she gets another job, she won't have to go to UK. If she has another job, she can talk to other man, but not under guise of "work." Now, if she has conversation with other man, no one thinks anything of it. Even if she does it fairly frequently. In a new job, if she frequently talks with other man, it looks like she takes a lot of "friend" male not her husband. It makes a big different.

A little cocaine. He is the cocaine. She is the addict. She is allowed to talk about the whiteness of the coke, but not talk about how nice it makes her feel. It would be best if she did not have to talk to the cocaine at all. But she does, as her job, have to talk to that cocaine. That is not healthy.

I do not like the term "fog," because it sounds like a bit of hocus pocus. It is not magic. Nathan is a really good guy, that's what everyone says. She has to talk to Nathan.

If you think she is committed and doing all you need to reconcile, I see no point in 180. 180 is a detachment. Reconciling is an attachement. You can't do both. 180 is to help you detach when she is not committing, not to get her to manipulate, but to help you detach so you can move on without her. If she is doing everything you've asked of her, and is full-on committed to reconciling your marriage, you detaching will hurt your reconciliation. I don't like the term "180" because it makes it sound like a trick. It is a series of behaviors to help you detach from an unremorseful cheater.

You and I may disagree about whether she is remorseful or not, but if she is doing all that you accept, why would you want to detach, she has done all you ask for?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 9:53 PM, July 31st (Friday)]

ICO,

How are you? I hope you are continually being kind to yourself. Keep doing things for yourself, it will help give you more self dependency and reinforce that you are taking some control over your own life.

The rollercoaster is an m-fer, isn't it? One day angry as yellow jackets forced out of the hive then crying uncontrollably. I recently cried for three days and I wasn't actually thinking of anything. My mind was blank. I'm not even sure I was feeling anything. Crazy train shit, it is. You're not alone.

I sincerely hope you take precautions for your need to trust your WW. I understand the concept of giving a tiny bit of trust. I realize how exhausting diligent surveillance can be and how mistrust wears on your soul making you feel heavy. Do not let these things allow you to drop your guard. No one can protect you but yourself. Go ahead and let her believe you are giving up trust but keep checking her!

1. Keep the VAR going. You might not like all that you hear but it will help you proceed knowing exactly where she is coming from.

2. GPS her. You can install on her car and personal phone. If she says she is doing something, check up on her. Every truth helps, every lie takes you to ground zero. Not a recipe, just how it ends up feeling.

3. No way to any cheater app!! Get that software. If she has an iphone, look in spotlight search for the names of apps. Also look in folders. They can hide that shit, and will.

4. Absolutely no fucking way to any abroad damn work! No way, or no marriage. Make that your new mantra.

5. She starts job search and interviews ASAP. Do it or done. Second mantra.

You are doing well for so early in the storm. I can't imagine how I would have felt, ON TOP OF JUST DEALING WITH DDAY, if my WH had told me he couldn't decide on who to be with or wasn't sorry. Damn it, that just pisses me off for you.

I do think your WW is still dwelling in her unreality romance and looking at everything through her "all about me" glasses. Stay firm and as controlled as you can. Keep looking after yourself. Keep moving towards D. Let her step in your path to stop you when reality begins to really start hitting. It will and she will have to take off those glasses or lose you. Middle ground is where you are at now and I think you and I can agree it is absolutely undesirable. You would not choose that for yourself so don't let her do so for you.

Take care. Keep going. Believe in you.

I have a different take on it and please correct me if i am wrong. But I get the feeling your WS is kind of naturally aloof/ambivalent about stuff? ... she doesn't seem overly distraught about losing her OP which can suggest a) he was not as serious as originally thought or 2) she is not completely convinced it is over.

Due to 'possibility' of #2 keep up diligent observation including the VAR.

As for the 180 .. detach .. gosh i know this is HARD .. and feels unnatural especially if you are a warm affectionate person. What you CAN do is infuse alot of positive in the detachment .. like sending the loving energy toward the kids and friends ect .. be cordial to her .. but do not talk about the future or the relationship. make sense?

When triggered journal or post on SI or write it down for IC.

"We're doing really good"

"We" - still considering them one unit, two lovers

"Doing" - NOT done

"Really good" - this is just yet another challenge in the magic of their relationship

It will come today or it will come four weeks from now "we just missed each other, what we have is magical".

Don't get me wrong, I am not happy. I don't think we've crossed any threshold at this point. I'm relieved that she's been telling the truth so far.

I am not happy about the current state of us. If I remember correctly she is disgusted with the idea of having sex with me. She still is working things out in her own head. She is a different person. All of my assumptions about her are shattered.

Her cheater friend is married to a two time cheater husband. They are just two people who shouldn't be together yet had four kids. Honestly, from what I heard my WW said to her friend, I'm ok with them talking. It sounds like my WW is trying to grasp reality from this fantasyfuckingville.

She had no plans to stop the affair. She mentioned during this call that she wished it could have died off on its own but she couldn't stop it. I sure as he didn't want to hear that.

She talked about our love life and how it's never been what she had with the OM. Pretty much what they had is what I've always wanted. This shit is hard to hear.

I think that as you are gathering information (in VAR mode) you will truly begin to detach from your wife. It's hard to be a silent voyeur, but you need to get an idea of where her mind is. This will make you realize that she is not a wife to you. She does not have your best interests in her heart. Keep listening, because it will help you pull away.

You only have to do work on yourself right now. Not on the marriage.

Strength.

If I remember correctly she is disgusted with the idea of having sex with me. She still is working things out in her own head. She is a different person. All of my assumptions about her are shattered.

Was this from the VAR?

I agree,

ICO - one of the reasons we are and will be tough on you is those first intiial steps were to get you to this point. Believe it or not many do not even get to the point that you are at.

I do agree that the chorus here can add to an already muddled brain, so by way of clearing that up... The first few steps by way of summary were intended to:

- get you all the details

- stand up for yourself, put yourself first

then

- flesh out the situation

- do you even want to reconcile

- if you do, is she a good candidate to offer reconciliation to?

You are still in detail gathering mode. Opinions will vary on what each new fact will mean, and that will probably carry your thread for a bit. I don't agree with not posting here, since you have a crew of 100s of us who you are effectively crowdsourcing the digestion of each topic. I do think that it's important to put us in context by also soliciting the advice of people in your life who you trust parents, friends, counselors, etc)

I also think that it's important to post here because THE VERY MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is journal. It's the only way to keep yourself honest. I wrote my journal to evernote. I worked well. If i was here I would have been so much better off having a journal that talked back to me! I lied to myself a lot. I was my own worst enemy.

detail gathering mode is probably never going to finish until she has completed her polygraph, and even then it's a never-ending battle. This is why her leaving her job and you breaking off communication between her and her boyfriend is important. She's still in contact with him and what you heard with her girlfriend is her lying to herself. She has not been good. They might be acting "good" but I can promise you that 100% of their messages are not business-only. But you are right that if you feel she is trying to work this out in her brain, it is a good thing.

because detail gathering mode does not end you do need an external timeline to force some sort of action, which is a nice side-benefit of the lawyer.

You do not need to make a decision on R or D right now. Focus on what you can do, and if you can't make a decision yet then make the ones that you can. I'll be honest, you already know what you want to do, you just won't admit it yet. The guy who stares up at the ceiling at 3am has already told you. That same guy told me early on and I ignored him. I do presume to know which way your guy leans, but he has already leaned.

She is a different person. All of my assumptions about her are shattered.

Question we all have to ask ourselves - is she a different person? Or is she the same person, but we just didn't know her "true her" before this?

Your other family, close friends - did any of them ever become "a different person"?

If your wife's parents, siblings, close friends learned about the affair, would they think your wife is "a different person" now? I am guessing that her cheater friend does not see anything different about your wife. In the VAR, did your wife ever say anything to the effect of how much this affair is so out of character for her?

She mentioned during this call that she wished it could have died off on its own but she couldn't stop it. I sure as he didn't want to hear that.

That is the kind of affair that is hard to stop. She is obsessed by this guy and even though she would like to stop, she just can't stop it. This means every time this guy is around her, she probably gets physically sexually turned on and all he has to do is say "let's get a hotel room" and she's all "Yes yes yes!!!"

She talked about our love life and how it's never been what she had with the OM. Pretty much what they had is what I've always wanted. This shit is hard to hear.

Yes, that is hard to take. She has convinced herself that sex with you is boring, but sex with him is great. It may just be an argument she uses to justify the affair to herself. You have a long way to go. Get a book on the Kamasutra. Show her you want to improve your sex skills. That statement worries me because it could be an indication of things to come. If things with OM have to grind to a stop because the affair was outed and he lives in another country, she might look for an affair with someone else closer to home. Be vigilent.

In closing, a VAR is the greatest source of information you can have. Never tell her about it. Never divulge to her information that could make her suspicious about a VAR. The information you are getting with the VAR is priceless. In my case, I thought OM was the one chasing after my wife to have the affair. The VAR taught me that my wife was the one obsessed with OM, who had been her first boyfriend. She would call him 5-10 times a day to tell him how much she still loved him and how she missed him. Boy, that's hard to take, but the VAR gave me information I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Good luck at damage control. I know from reading your thread that you love your wife and want things to go back to the way they were before. Unfortunately, one thing has been shattered forever in your marriage and that's trust. I wish you the best.

[This message edited by marbou888 at 11:01 PM, August 3rd (Monday)]

I'm a little more jaundiced than the rest of these guys so you can take this advice with a pinch of salt.

The only thing that is preventing her from continuing the affair is the logistics. My guess would be that even if she were to come out of the "mythical fog" it will be with the realisation that her romance with the OM was never meant to be because of the fact that he's out here in the UK and she's across the pond. She will hold onto the cherished memories and you will forever be the guy who she settled for.

You're the safety net that broke her fall. You're the equivalent of Woody who got chucked into a corner when Buzz held her fancy. When she comes back to you it will be to come back to the comfort of the old and not because she is afraid of losing something she once held dear.

You're probably not seeing this message clearly because you don't want to. All I can say at this point is good luck and I sincerely hope you do not end up a jaded husband just going through the motions.

Kronos82,

There is no doubt that's true. I don't want to either.

I've started being able to see my life without her and really ita not all that bad. I may even be happy.

I've done an inventory of what she's really done and it's pretty minor.

Tomorrow is 3 weeks. I want to ride this out a bit longer to see where I want to go with this. I'm not sure right now. It changes minute to minute and I just want to make sure I make a choice I can live with.

So much for going dark for a bit... I think I'm a drama queen.

I think I'm a drama queen

You're not a drama queen. You're someone who has suffered one of the worst betrayals any person can suffer, and you're SMARTLY coming here for support. I'm very glad you're not going dark on us!

Best wishes