SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wow, this is threadjack and I'm sorry for it, but BEING PURSUED IS NOT A REASON FOR AN AFFAIR!

Anyway, back to the original poster:

get healthy. Time away will help. I'm a marriage guy, but there are things you cannot unsee. I think it is likely to be very, very hard to get over this.

Think long and hard about what you want. Reconciliation is TOUGH work. We are talking 2-5 years if both sides work hard. Y-e-a-r-s. Not months.

Good luck in your decision.

A given in life nobody on this board can change.

People are not always loving or loyal.

So her reasons for doing this are what I thought I need to understand first of all.

Your W told you why she failed you. I stand strong behind what I said, the reason is valid.

IMO.. it is very important to understand the reason. You must know in order to make a decision for your own happiness.

It may not mean at all, you lacked in anyway filling her needs... people are selfish.

If she told you she hated this or that about you... That would be the reason too. But based on your post.. she was chasing feelings that often just are not the same as all marriages evolve.

Any A behavior is never justified no matter the reason.

I wish you well brother.. May you find peace soon.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:38 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

TheRedBaron

Just want to add this

I got up to piss, and saw the two of them having sex on the ground, less than six feet away from my tent.

THIS…..this is equivalent as sleeping with POS in in your marital house and bed and is EXACTLY the sick and perverted mind game based on power trip and control which the betrayer plays with the betrayed one in order to dominate and degrade him. Fucking POS a few meters from the tent you slept in and in your house while you sleeping in your bedroom is an act of aggression; it's an act of violence; it's a perverted power play and mind game by her to humiliate and degrade you; for her own selfish sexual jollies!

When she tells you

"That it was purely the thrill of the act not even the sex itself"

as you yourself wrote above, it is exactly that. It is the power trip, the feelings of controlling and dominating you, the emascualtion, humiliation and degradation inflicted upon you that she enjoyed and from where and the nature of feelings she was enjoying. No, it was not the sex that was lacking; it was not the boredom that was disturbing; no it was not the absense of something, new and different that drow her to cheat but as I said the thrill and the excitement of the act that had the nature of manipulating, dominating, controlling, emasculating and humiliating you that gave her the chills, the thrills and the excitement. It's vile, it's evil and and it's disgusting.

For god's sake, she did it in my opinion because this idea was a huge turn on for her and her sick mind. In my opinion the idea of humiliating you it-self was a huge turn on for her. Couldn't she avoid fucking him in a place that you can so easily find them there?! It's an act of mental as well as emotional abuse. It's very similar as when the WS screws someone else in your marital bed, marital home. I think it is very clear. It's about your humiliation and it's an act of violence, an act of aggression. Look once again what I wrote about her and her abusive nature.

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 5:16 AM, December 23rd (Wednesday)]

People are not always loving or loyal.

And if some are evil enough to excuse it then run away from them, TRB

Your W told you why she failed you. I stand strong behind what I said, the reason is valid.

TRB, remember that excusing evil and repeating it doesn't change anything on the nature of evil and it's invalidity. This is also called the banality of evil. You seem to me a strong person and not lacking such kind of self-worth and self-esteem to accept. This is the exact mental shenanigans people of such kind do to "reconcile. It's not reconciliation but self-hate, (self-) denial and martyrdom.

IMO.. It is very important to understand the reason. You must know in order to make a decision for your own happiness.

The reason, are very clear and I outlined them to you. No of your business in excusing in being her punching bag of evil

It may not mean at all, you lacked in anyway filling her needs... people are selfish.

No, people are not selfish, they have the capcity for both. What you chose and think. it's what you'll become. So, yes there are those who use it as excuse to become more selfish and those that strive to overcome them and thus have coping skills, boundary and morality to overcome them. Be the latter not the former one.

If she told you she hated this or that about you... That would be the reason too. But based on your post.. she was chasing feelings that often just are not the same as all marriages evolve.

Her being hedonist and chasing either what is given in marriage or every primitive impulse and desire, especially if she uses the excuse of selfishness, is exactly what make her evil, not simply selfish of course,and not worth of reconciliation. The majority is not like that. If this is the case drop her and run away. Chose some who is worth trusting and living. Someone who understand that as marriage evolves it offers much more deeper and satisfying emotions than those primitive and low impulses. Chose someone that has the insight and understanding as well as seking on working on such kind of marriage. This will bring you happiness.

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 7:57 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

And by the way, people are neither generous nor selfish. They have the capacity for both. What you feed, it's what you'll be. We are what we think; what we are arise within our thoughts; With our thoughts we make the world (and ourselves). Thus the one who wants will be selfish; hence, the one who chooses not to be will not. This is life and undeniable truth; not vica versa. Thus also the chance for a decent, truthful, aware and moral person is almost zero and for a selfish one is almost sure. This is also another false equivalencey between cheaters and those who aren't. It's cheater think 101. The one who excuses his selfishness is prompt to cheat again and even more and those who don't are not. No, forgetting something the partner asks out of one own's selfishness is not the same a cheating on your loved one. Not the same league.

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 7:50 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

So, this, the above, as well as the fact that a reason simply being a reason it still not makes it valid. Killing someone of selfishness still does not make it valid; murdering someone out of hate does not make it valid. Such kind of argumentation as nonsense mentioned and was pointing too is not only moronic, not only simply evil as I said above but the most disgusting and wicked moral sewage one could encounter. That's not true and is not only valid to killing and stealing but to infidelity as well. That simple!

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 5:03 AM, December 23rd (Wednesday)]

I agree with a few of the others here - sex 4 times in 9 months. she could be telling the truth but most if not all cheaters minimize to protect them selves.

one way that might help you decide is to see if there are any more truths.

even the threat of a polygraph may get you some more truth.

you know all contact with the couple will have to stop, well at least with OM, you might want to still talk to OM's wife to compare notes if you get more information as she may be getting more truths.

[This message edited by convert at 10:02 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

this topic seemed to trigger a lot of people here. because of the blatant disregard to her husband by having sex just feet away from her husband at the camp trip. she had sex with the other man in their home while the husband was home asleep.

this is not a nice person. this goes beyond just a fling. it goes beyond just an affair. as one of the other posters here put it,

this is equivalent as sleeping with POS in in your marital house and bed and is EXACTLY the sick and perverted mind game based on power trip and control which the betrayer plays with the betrayed one in order to dominate and degrade him. Fucking POS a few meters from the tent you slept in and in your house while you sleeping in your bedroom is an act of aggression; it's an act of violence; it's a perverted power play and mind game by her to humiliate and degrade you; for her own selfish sexual jollies!

she is not worth it. divorce her and move on.

I share the feelings of Nononsense and Imgonebythedown. Your wife had no valid reason for an affair THERE IS NO VALID REASON FOR AN AFFAIR !!!!

Look, first moving out was a mistake. Crushing the affair, whether you decide to stay with her or not is a must. The OM is married and his wife has every right to know. Relationships formed out of immorality should be destroyed regardless of anything IMO.

So move back in while doing a 180. If you must, take a quick trip or two or daytrips to clear your head but don't give up your castle.

Now here's my big question; what keeps you with her at this point ??? Make a list of what keeps you with ehr and what makes you want to end this ... what is your asset situation, family situation ?? How clean of a break can you get from her if you divorce ? What has been her reaction since you left ?

Betrayal is bad enough, being betrayed with a close friend involved is insane.

Tell us more of your thoughts and again, none of this is your fault. NONE

Hi TheRedBaron.

The double betrayol has got to be HELL.

I read the whole story. I agree with others to have a POLY done. Cheaters lie and liers cheat. If you go the POLY route watch your WW's face very carefully for reaction. Expect the TT to flow over the next few weeks. Others here have gotten parking lot confessions as to how far down the rabbit hole the affair had gone. Make sure you follow through on the POLY.

I would take your time to make a decision amd it would serve you well to impliment the 180 as described in the healing library. The 180 will help you to put your needs FIRST and to detach from your WW. You need to detach so that you can get some REAL perspective on the marriage and to be able to control your emotions to come to a better decision for YOU.

I don't think you mentioned whether there are children involved.

So sorry you are going through this crap.

I wish you good luck!

RedBaron, as you can tell from the responses, your story is one of the more "triggery" ones that pop up here. Brutal.

She says that she did it for the thrill and excitement of something new and different, which she hasn't felt in years.

Unsurprising.

I've read, heard, and seen on multiple sites and in my own experience that boredom is the kryptonite of marriages. It's far easier to relieve that boredom with an OM than it is to regenerate the excitement with the husband or wife. Truth. She took the easy path to self-gratification.

Statistics say that 5 of 6 marriages where the guy catches the wife (as opposed to her confessing) end in divorce. Just too big of a bridge to cross. They fail either immediately, or after attempting R when the H realizes that time doesn't heal all wounds, that some things cannot be forgotten, that the new normal isn't good enough.

If you try to R, you will never, ever, ever look at your WW the same. You can have a strong marriage again, but it will be a different creature from what you had. You'll know that your WW is a card-carrying member of the crooked timber of humanity, fully capable of falling from grace (and hopefully aware of it).

Be wary of posters here saying "If I were you..." because they are not you. Only you ca ndecide, we can just tell you what our experiences are, what worked and what didn't, and what we have seen here.

The long term keys to your recovery are to:

1. Accept where you are (in a broken marriage)

2. Come up with a plan for where you want to be near term and long (in charge of your own destiny)

3. Act. Take firm charge of your marriage and your life, and drive the bus.

You've been heard, RedBaron. Everything you are feeling right now is perfectly awful and perfectly normal. You will survive.

Your wife stating she did this because she wanted the excitement and or something new, and validation is most likely a true reason, but that does not make it valid in any way.

The real problem is why did your wife need validation from some other guy, which by the way is one of the most stated reasons for an affair from a wife.

She needs to therapy to figure out her problems, how she allowed herself to cross these boundaries and importantly, how will she keep this from happening ever again.

The next time she needs excitement what will she do.

And what this the only time, and I am sure you are wondering.

Is she in any way communication with the OM at this time?

Are you able to know if she is still talking to him at this time, because many times do go underground after discovery.

You will see clearly as time goes on, as you go through all of the range of emotions, and you will go through all emotions, and many times within an hour, from anger, to depression, to confusion and back again.

Welcome RedBaron. Sorry you're here.

I read your post late last night. But I was too tired to offer any sound advice.

First thing: There is NEVER any reason, justification, excuse, etc, to have an affair. None. Ever. Period.

Second: The ones I have heard are reasons to get MARRIAGE COUNSELING. Not have an affair.

I would also advise you to get rid of the alcohol in your relationship. It sounds like this may be a problem. If you and or your wife are drinking to the point of "passing out" during social functions, this is a recipe for disaster.

Best of luck to you and which ever road you choose.

sadtoo wrote:

There is NEVER any reason, justification, excuse, etc, to have an affair.

To be precise, there is ALWAYS a reason. Just never a good one.

Western wrote

Now here's my big question; what keeps you with her at this point ??? Make a list of what keeps you with her and what makes you want to end this ... what is your asset situation, family situation ?? How clean of a break can you get from her if you divorce ? What has been her reaction since you left ?

Western has told you a lot of correct things in his post; this one is very good and wise. I just want to expand it a little bit so that you can have tools for better introspection and understanding so that your decisions are more informed. If you want you can time to reflect on it and then share it with us so that we chat over it and help you. So, here are just a few things that you should consider whether to divorce or reconcile and we can expand on it later the more we proceed with the discussion. So,

1.I know it's early on the path and you'll need to evaluate it later again, the more you then proceed, so If you harbor any expectations of a truly successful reconciliation, have you've seen the necessary growth, change, and commitment in her or at least the seed of it over this period time; later on, if it's relevant, consider how long is this process, how was it characterized and so on? If you're heading towards divorce, what in those attitudes/requirement make you feel unsafe or bringing you towards the conclusions that that's too risky to stay with her

2.Which qualities did she shows besides of remorse and beginning to get it (if it is relevant) that made you believe she has a true and genuine chance at transformation

3.Besides this what is actually your motivation/intention for yourself despite getting back/reconciling your relationship or divorcing her

4.What is also your motivations or intentions either behind reconciliation or divorce

5.What intention/motivation do you have towards and in the context of non-relationship issues in life?

6.How being reconciled or divorced with her does move you closer towards those goals you set for your-self or is there a danger it will set you further away from them? (Once again if it is relevant at all)

7. Like in a business approach this topic with a probability test and risk management. Try to put your emotions aside. It's a cold calculation at that point; like a SWOT matrix and analysis in an intelligence gathering and decision making process. Consider what is the probability, what are the risks and what are your strengths, her weaknesses, the opportunities involved and the potential threats you're exposed and respectively are involved in each project, whether it's reconciliation or divorce. Make informed decisions!

Now, if you're comfortable to share more, it will really help us build a picture and give us a true chance of a genuine understanding where you're coming from and heading ahead. For example, what cultural influences/differences might be in the mix contributing to both your and your spouse's approach and choices you both made and are making right now as in regard to what happened and awaiting you (namely divorce, reconciliation and what might be afterwards?) What are your future plans, what is his attitude/approach, what kind of support do you both get and have and etc?

And of course are your views on the matter typical or atypical where you live, or somewhat usual or unusual? Try to look and see if your approach is colored and motivated by either by aversion or attachment to this cultural, familial and societal thought, beliefs, mindset, ideals and so on. It would be interesting to know about those dynamics. Moreover, how do you think that has influenced your approach to your partners infidelity, and do you think that your own thinking and his is disparate on these matters, or relatively similar? The purpose of those questions is both to help as to demonstrate to you that instead of an auto-pilot response you should make a conscious and aware decision for yourself. We can help and even show you the path, but no one can walk it instead of you. As I said earlier, ultimately those are the decision you must take for yourself

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 11:29 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

craig2001 wrote:

Your wife stating she did this because she wanted the excitement and or something new, and validation is most likely a true reason, but that does not make it valid in any way.

I agree, your wife most probably does not lie about those specific reasons and it is indeed why she cheated, yet her not lying about it still does not make those reasons valid. Even being truthful in itself is not enough; one must also be authentic and sincere (as I outlined in my first responses to you). If she states otherwise, she's not!

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 11:07 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

From HouseOfPlane:

sadtoo wrote:

There is NEVER any reason, justification, excuse, etc, to have an affair.

To be precise, there is ALWAYS a reason. Just never a good one.

Please. If you're going to quote me, do it accurately. I also said this:

Second: The ones (reasons) I have heard are reasons to get MARRIAGE COUNSELING. Not have an affair.

In other words...

Being completely remorseful also means self reflection and self blame. No blame shifting and no easy answers.

It is said that the WW lies to themselves as much or more than they do their betrayed husbands.

The worse thing is rug sweeping. Yes, she wanted the excitement, but what about next time she needs excitement. Self honesty from her is what is needed to reconcile, if that is what you decide you can do.

Although this experience is beyond words, you've done an admirable job describing the depth of your emotions. Having been through a double betrayal myself, your words resonate with me and I know the incredible pain you are currently in.

While being betrayed is horrendous, a double betrayal is exponentially worse. You will find others who know exactly what you've experienced on the Double Betrayal thread in the "I Can Relate" forum (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?fid=14). As you can see from the responses on this thread, everyone desires to help, but each can have their own experiences and opinions. Take what is helpful to you and ignore the rest.

To say that this has been the most harrowing, gut-wrenching, shattering, soul crushing experience for me since the death of my father 16 years ago would still be an understatement.

You know deep, immeasurable sorrow from past experience and have traveled through the stages of grief (google it) before, so you will have something to draw from. You can appreciate the fact that this takes time, that emotions will be unpredictable for some time to come, that you should be patient with yourself and that you will survive this. Right now, you are likely still in the stage of shock and denial. It is part of the body's mechanism to avoid being overwhelmed and, especially after a double betrayal, there is much to be overwhelmed by. That is why you feel lost and why you struggle to know what is right/wrong. It is ok to feel this way right now.

I suspect that some of the comments and advice you have received already are very overwhelming. Please skip them for now. You can come back weeks or months later when you are ready. There will be a time when they can be helpful.

There are only three choices here; 1) I walk away now without trying anything further. 2) I walk away some time from now, having tried and failed 3) rebuild this successfully having tried and succeeded.

I think it is important to recognize that you've been through a MAJOR trauma. If it was a physical injury, you'd be in ICU right now. It is difficult to make a decision at the moment, so allow some time until you feel ready to do so. Only you will know when that is, but, as a starting point, some counselors recommend not making any major decision for 6-12 months.

As part of the trauma, you'll also need to know that you will heal given time, but there will always be scars from the wound. Regardless of what you choose to do with your marriage, you won't be the same and the only path is through the pain. It sucks. It is a new reality moving forward. While losing a father is immensely difficult and draining, this is multiple times harder. That all being said, having the assistance of a good IC (individual counselor) can be very beneficial in the healing process. I'd recommend one who has experience in infidelity and, possibly, EMDR as well (EMDR being a treatment for PTSD -- something that is possible you will have given what you've been through).

One more thing. This level of trauma can have physical effects -- sleeplessness, loss of appetite, acid reflux, anxiety attacks, depression, etc. If you are having a problem in any area, get help from a doctor sooner rather than later.

Please primarily focus on your own healing and needs right now. I'll offer a few things up that may help:

- Your wife will read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. You'll want to read it too.

- You get to decide what to do about the house and its furnishings. If you need to get rid of some pieces of furniture, do so. If the whole house is unbearable, sell it. If the location/town is a problem because of the proximity to the OM, move. Do whatever you need to do to heal.

- Find an IC for yourself. You may have to "shop" around because there are excellent, average and poor ones out there. Find one who really helps you to heal.

In terms of trying to decide about your marriage, the only thing you need to know about right now is that the affair is truly and totally over. If it isn't or if you discover additional contact/communication, then you need to take immediate action. Otherwise, you can allow yourself and your wife some time to sort out what the next steps for your relationship will be. A hard and fast requirement for your wife is that there will be absolutely no contact between her and the OM. The other requirement is that she get an IC. She needs to dig deeply to find her "Why?"

She says that she did it for the thrill and excitement of something new and different, which she hasn't felt in years. She says that she was intoxicated by the fact that someone else wanted her that way other than me, it gave her validation and assurance, especially since she's getting older (she is 37); and that felt really good to be able to see that she can still be attractive to someone.

This "Why?" is only surface level. Why did she need the thrill? Why was she chasing validation? Why did she believe that it was ok to betray you in order to get these things? She needs to do a lot more work if she is going to prove that she is worth reconciling with.

Keep posting TheRedBaron. Come here to vent, let out the pain or to seek input. You have many here who will encourage, support and stand alongside of you.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 11:26 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday)]

Dear Red Baron,

I'm so sorry that you find yourself here. You are very articulate and it seems clear that you are seeking to understand or explain what is essentially unexplainable to those of us on the receiving end who would not, could not have considered doing this to our spouse.

From the way you described your delight in your relationship from the outset, your wife took an unimaginable risk with something very precious.

I echo other posters who encourage you to take what you need from our well-intentioned posts, and leave the rest.

We've all been betrayed and felt the deep, raw pain. And we each have our own ways of dealing with the betrayal as we work to rebuild our lives.

I highly recommend individual counselling. For me, while it didn't change my circumstances, it was very helpful as sort of a steam valve -- letting me get everything I was feeling out and come up with strategies to move forward.

Time will be your greatest friend and your worst enemy. You WILL be okay and things will get easier to handle as you move forward. Unfortunately, it just has to be gotten through and it can seem like you will never be at peace again. But you will.

Just take care of yourself day to day, at this point. Don't feel pressured to make any significant long-term decisions right now. In fact, may be best to put off the big decisions until your emotions have stabilized.

Best to you, Red Baron.