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JM, do you think she doesn't know the truth? Or that you don't know her truth?

This meeting just going to pour more salt in the wounds. You want to discuss logic with a woman that simply doesn't give a fuck about your facts. Her narrative is already written, anything you say will be twisted to feed that, not change it. And it won't change anything for you either. The closure you seek will just just be more confusion as you sort through the new BS she tries to pile on top of you.

It took me a long time to learn this, so I understand, but when it comes to infidelity and an unremorseful wife, the best policy is simply crickets. Though that was a lesson I had to learn for myself.

If nothing else, get the conversation on tape. You may trust this friend, but there was a time you trusted your wife too. This is just coming from a guy who has been dealing with false DV and a P.O. after confiding in a family friend that turned out to be a little more my wife's friend then mine. Sadly by the time I knew that, the ball was already rolling.

If you are hell bent on taking the meeting for "closure" then make a list prior. You don't want the meeting to turn into... what you did wrong in the marriage... Remembering the "good-times" so the Affair doesn't seem so bad...

I'm unaware of the legal position in the US but I'd be making a discreet voice recording of any 'meeting' in these circumstances.

This all feels so weird.

Two things are going on -

I still love my wife, or least least the person I shared my life with over the last 27 years. I think back to the vacations, time spent together, holding hands on the boardwalk, cuddling on the couch, laughing together. I understand that's not who she is right now, so it's like grieving her death, all while seeing her every day. I miss who she was, and the life we had together. I was hoping she would come out of this fog, and back to reality, and she still might, but it's gonna be too late by then.

- now I'm talking to this other woman last night, and she listened while I told her what was going on. She said - "I hate cheaters, but understand one thing, this is not your fault. You didn't cause this, and most cheaters will try to blame you for what they're doing because they can't look in the mirror" - she gets it.

And this morning I wake up, start to miss my wife, and feel guilty by reaching out to someone else.

I think I'm still in love with my wife, and the whole thing is a big mind-fuck.

JM, Do you think she doesn't know the truth, or that you don't know her truth?

This is exactly it.

See all this 180, detaching, ignoring her, she doesn't know what the 180 is. She thinks in her convoluted mind, that this guy is showering her with attention, and I'm simply not giving her the time of day. All of this is based on my wife's bullshit story of - "I haven't been happy in the marriage for a long time. I want to try a trial separation to work out my feelings, because I'm just not happy, and I want to be"

She still thinks I believe this scenario. In a normal marriage, if a couple were having problems, this would be a logical scenario and make sense. The only problem is, I have proof that the scenario she created was all bullshit, and that's why we're meeting tonight.

If I get nothing else out of it then - "I have all the proof that you've been lying the whole time, and here it is. You can't bullshit me anymore, and YOU are 100% responsible for this affair, and all the consequences that it will create. The kids hurt and crying, losing your self respect in the eyes of everyone in the family, the divorce, the lifestyle change we now both have to go through. Any and all consequences from this is on YOU, not me"

She may have a hard time hearing it, but I really don't care. She knows she's gonna have to carry it once I tell her, and if I get nothing else out of it then to just finally call her on her bullshit and get it off my chest, it will be worth every second of it.

Going to this meeting may not make sense, but fuck it. Sometimes you just need to say the truth. As long as you protect yourself, go for it.

I think to someone like your wife the 180 must seem the act of an insane person. When someone is used to getting their own way, and get used to predicting the response of another, and as a result are confident in their ability to manipulate, and then that person no longer responds to them the way they did, I am sure it is very disorientating in the extreme.

A narcissist must surely think the person doing the 180 has gone crazy.

Well, I ended up getting myself upset.

Who would have thought?

It happens. Don't be too hard on yourself

You told her what you feel

A good thing

Some of it felt good, to call her on her bullshit.

Of course, the whole thing was blame-shifting, which I expected.

"You were never there for me"

"I could never count on you"

"You never made me feel that you loved me"

"I was always alone"

"I was a single parent"

"I had to always take care of you"

"I can count on a single hand how many times you've given me a compliment over the last 25 years"

"You undermine me with the kids"

I called her on the affair, which she denied still, and showed her the proof I have. She says -

"How is that any different then what you did with the cat lady? The lies, the cheating, the secrets behind my back? That's where all this started. Now you know how it feels"

The cat lady thing was over 2 years ago.

And then she wants to be amicable. "This doesn't have to get ugly".

At one point she called me "a master manipulator"

She says we have the life we built "despite" me and what I did. Mind you, I've been without work for a total of 9 months over the last 20 years.

When I left to go to work, I get the following text from her -

I do work hard for what I have. I've gotten 2 promotions over the last 8 years, and I'm up for a supervisor position. If you go ahead with your threats, I'll lose everything I've worked so hard for. If you feel you need to punish me to "protect" yourself, then so be it. Just know the kids will take the hit when it comes to college or the things they need. If you want to see other people, then so be it. That's a part of moving on

And I'm the "master manipulator"...

And I still can't go pay the cat lady a visit because I'm in a "committed" relationship, right?

Yeah, someone should be committed all right....

I would not blame you if you violated that cat lady every way you could.

You are doing well. I am very happy you have found your way.

I'll give you one of my mistakes. I tried to go to a family memorial day cookout. We talked about what happened.

Then she got just a little snippy with me. In front of her family and my mom, I told her "none of this would have if you kept your legs shut".

As you can imagine, the party was over for me.

lol....bet it was worth it though...

Everytime I think of my wife now, I keep getting the visual of Sharon Stone, staggering down the hallway at the end of the movie 'Casino'

Meh, more interested in what you're gonna do with your life now.

You've had your *closure*. She obviously needed hers also. What's the next step?

Honestly? A new relationship is just going to complicate things for you. Figure out what direction your ship is going to sail before you invite someone new on board.

Read my user name phonetically. I jumped right back in before figuring myself out. My advice is don't be me.

Strength

JM, gotta say, in spite of the rocky road, you're doing great. Keep at it and you'll make it through just fine.

That said, it would be nice to have a fast forward button, eh?

[This message edited by healingroad at 10:27 PM, April 20th (Wednesday)]

JM, I've been following this for a while.

Honestly, I know you've said you've still got some pretty strong feelings for your wife. But honestly, I think bo matter what, even if you do get her to admit what she did, or even have definitive proof she started the affair it's not going to make a difference.

Your marriage has taken such a serious hit, that the only way you could repair it is to work together. From the person you're describing your wife to be, I don't think she wants to. It sounds like she'll do whatever it takes to draw this out as long as possible.

Not to get too off track from my above comment, but the 180 is supposed to not only help you detach from your wife and her flawed feelings, but also help you find yourself again. As hard as it may seem, you've got to start enjoying yourself. Find any way to make the time you have away from her enjoyable.

In my honest opinion, I think you've got every right to be selfish right now. I can say that if I were in your shoes, I'd already be talking to the cat lady, just taking time to get to know her. This may seem hard to take, but you can be happier with someone else man.

I'm my life, if I've learned anything it's that the people you care about most can do the most damage to you. Sometimes, you need to cut them out of your life simply because it's not healthy for you to continue to try for their sake.

Find ways to distract yourself and let her see you can be happy without her. She needs to want you back, to want to work on this and do whatever you need to help you heal. If she fights you in any way on that, then it's a clear indication:

She just doesn't care you're in pain.

Id be planning fishing trips for you and the kids, BBQ, and maybe even take them to a theme park or something. When you feel your thoughts drift towards her remind yourself that you're doing everything you can to help heal right now. Then ask yourself if she is as well. Let that be your motivation. Let this be what drives you to show her the kind of man you are.

Yeah, I know.

And I've said a few times 5454real, I'm in no shape to have a "serious" relationship right now. I still have alot of pain and emotions to work through. Wouldn't be fair to anyone involved.

That said, if someone wants a "special friend" type relationship, I'm game.

I need to have fun now, not get seriously involved, but I would tell any woman that up front. I'm not gonna screw with someone's head or mislead them, BELIEVE me.

Alot of lessons learned by going through this.

[This message edited by JM72 at 10:45 PM, April 20th (Wednesday)]

Lol, yep, special friends. Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. It's a very apt statement. IME, there are VERY few women who can seperate sex from emotion. Hell, not too many men either.

I'm glad you're aware of your own fragility. Just proceed with caution.

As to your pending D, listen to your lawyer. In everything!

I think I said somewhere along here (I can be a bit redundant when I'm losing my mind), there was a reason this was even more crushing to me -

My Mom abandoned me when I was 12. Over the course of the rest of my life, she never apologized. No accountability, not responsible, she was the victim, it was "your father's fault".

Of course, I had trouble developing trust issues. It took many years before I REALLY opened up with my wife. I got close to her, made myself vunerable. Told her of my fears, my desires, my secrets, etc.

Now she does this. No accountability, no remorse, no responsibility, she's the victim, it's my fault, and I'm left to pick up the pieces.....again.

That's what hurts the most.