SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sounds like you've identified a great topic for IC. It's not uncommon for victims of abuse to recreate the environment they were in. Maybe a subconscious attempt to create a different outcome.

You picked a woman with characteristics of your Mom.

What can you do to not repeat that? How can you recognize the signs?

IC can help

Yeah, I know.

I said a few times over the last couple of weeks - "I'll never get married again" - "I'll never get close to a woman again" - "I'll never let myself be vunerable again" - but who really suffers living like that? I do.

Now, I'm hoping I don't fall in love again. Sex? Yes please, but I can't go through this shit again. I don't know if I would make it.

I read so many stories on here, or see people's signatures -

Dday - 1

Dday - 2

Dday - 3

Dday - 4

And think....My God....

Some of it felt good, to call her on her bullshit.

Of course, the whole thing was blame-shifting, which I expected.

"You were never there for me"

"I could never count on you"

"You never made me feel that you loved me"

"I was always alone"

"I was a single parent"

"I had to always take care of you"

"I can count on a single hand how many times you've given me a compliment over the last 25 years"

"You undermine me with the kids"

I called her on the affair, which she denied still, and showed her the proof I have. She says -

"How is that any different then what you did with the cat lady? The lies, the cheating, the secrets behind my back? That's where all this started. Now you know how it feels"

The cat lady thing was over 2 years ago.

And then she wants to be amicable. "This doesn't have to get ugly".

At one point she called me "a master manipulator"

She says we have the life we built "despite" me and what I did. Mind you, I've been without work for a total of 9 months over the last 20 years.

When I left to go to work, I get the following text from her -

I do work hard for what I have. I've gotten 2 promotions over the last 8 years, and I'm up for a supervisor position. If you go ahead with your threats, I'll lose everything I've worked so hard for. If you feel you need to punish me to "protect" yourself, then so be it. Just know the kids will take the hit when it comes to college or the things they need. If you want to see other people, then so be it. That's a part of moving on

And I'm the "master manipulator"...

Really, I hate to say, "I told you so," because I know what a kick in the nuts you just got by going through what you did.

But...That's why I told you...

This meeting?

Don't go. Nothing good is going to come out of it.

Confronting your WW? She clearly doesn't give a shit what you think. Her friend? She'll just see you as the "crazy" husband. (Maybe if you stay totally calm, like an undertaker, she'll believe you. But unless you've got video of WW fucking the dude, your WW will have some kind of semi-plausible excuse. Trust me. She's been thinking of them for sometime now). You're going to get angry and upset. That will be read as crazy.

Just go crickets. Detach. File for divorce and start the process of healing.

But if you really must go, bring a VAR (or a GoPro), as protection against some trumped up DV charge

What you just got was more manipulation. More doubt in your mind to leave her.

So, please. Listen to us when we tell you a relationship with someone else is a bad idea at this point. All you will do is hurt her. Do you really want to hurt someone else? Even 10% of the pain you've felt? Don't suck another innocent person into your personal vortex of hell. Be a decent human being and leave her out of it.

Deal with you and your WW, then move on to another relationship.

What is your plan to deal with WW? What is your plan to heal from this tragedy?

My plan is to to after as much as I can humanly get.

And I know. When the cat lady and I were texting last night, she said "and for the record, I never stopped thinking about you".

I told her I'm an emotional mess right now. I don't want to screw up somebody else right now. I realize where I'm at at what's going on. Now if she said "don't worry about that, just come on over", I'm going, heh.

The fucked up part? I woke up this morning and felt guilty for talking to her. I'm programed to be monogamous, even while sleeping on the couch, her screwing someone else, impossible to talk to, and she's telling me to go date other people.

Most of the guys I work with all have wives and girlfriends. Very few of them are faithful. I have this situation, and I'm the one who feels guilty.

I woke up this morning and felt guilty for talking to her. I'm programed to be monogamous, even while sleeping on the couch, her screwing someone else, impossible to talk to, and she's telling me to go date other people.

I'll tell you something - This doesn't go away immediately.

I was married 19 years, together 25. When I met my girlfriend, and sometimes still do (a year out from D, after 7 years of her cheating), I felt like I was cheating.

It's just your mind/heart, trying to catch up with reality.

But a month out? Everything is still fucked up (mind/body/soul). Take your time. (I met GF 16 months out. It took another 5 months to get serious).

Yeah. That's your morals trying to readjust to the situation. Totally normal.

The title of your thread describes the situation perfectly I think, JM.

Please stop thinking any of this is your fault.

When a wife betrays her husband or a husband betrays his wife, the blame lies squarely on the betrayer, NOT on the betrayed spouse.

A BS with high moral standards like you might be made to think he may be partly to blame because he did or didn't do this or that at some time in the past. But none of that is an excuse for her betraying you as she has done. She betrayed you because she CONSCIOUSLY began an EA a long time ago, then which became a PA several months ago. She WANTED this JM. It was nothing you did.

I have read every post on this thread--yours and others--and it is obvious to me that you have done everything you could to prevent coming to this point. Yet here you are. Your marriage is over, JM. The wife you love is gone forever. What is left of her is a vicious, vindictive, utterly selfish monster who, frankly, you do not know. And a rotten mother who would leave your minor children to fend for themselves in order to have her weekend overnighter with her ghetto rat wannabe rapper, smoking pot in some rap joint. It's just lucky for your kids that YOU have been there for them. She has virtually abandoned them at times for her own selfish interest. Remember how you felt when your mother abandoned you. Although that was permanent, your WW is doing the same thing to her/your children--albeit only on weekends. She has checked out of being a wife and a mother. Now she is just a sex toy for a 2-time loser who will soon dump her like a bag of garbage for a younger, sexier woman.

Now it should be obvious to you that the only thing left for you to do is protect yourself and protect your kids. You deserve a better wife and they deserve a better mother.

As so many others have advised you here, you should immediately hire a pit bull of a lawyer who will go for her jugular financially.

And don't let her guilt you into thinking you should cave in because of the bull**** she tried to feed you in your meeting today, that you need to cave in to her because of your kids.

Look at it this way: You will continue to have the same earnings you have now, and she will continue to have the same earnings she has now. So whether you stay married or not you will still have the same combined income as you do now. So your kids will suffer ZERO financially. The courts will see to that.

In my own case once the papers were filed any guilt I had of seeing other people went away for good.

I wouldn't push the cat lady away - just make sure you aren't making any commitments to her. I had a woman friend when I went through my D - she was quite a help. In some ways an improtant figure in my life.

I have been following your thread since the beginning. I'd like to commend you on your progress! You seem to be showing your wife more strength and defining more boundaries. Not an easy thing to do when you are still struggling with feelings of love. You should take a minute to give yourself a pat on the back for that.

I'd like to offer a few words of caution when it comes to starting a fling with the cat lady. During my own divorce, it was repeatedly recommended that I avoid starting any sexual/romantic relationships during the process. I live in a no-fault state, so infidelity was not included in the initial filing, but there are a few scenarios where it could have been used if our our divorce/custody would have turned into a battle. Infidelity would have been a hard card to play if, essentially, I was doing it too. Plus there is the added benefit of feeling slightly morally superior because I can say I NEVER stepped outside our marriage, even after everything he put me through. A little petty on that last part I know, but after feeling worthless throughout this situation, I'll take a an ounce of superiority wherever I can get it.

Believe me, I completely understand the desperate need for a distraction and "companionship", but I have to ask (to those encouraging you to go for it), how is this different from a WS's exit affair? The feeling that your marriage is over through no fault of your own, enjoying the positive attention and "friendship" of someone else, feeling completely justified in making the choice to jump in to "just sex" rather than wait until the marriage is officially over... I just don't see how it's different. Has your wife destroyed your marriage? YES!! Do you deserve some happiness? Abso-fucking-lutely!! But in the end, choosing to have a relationship (just sex or otherwise) BEFORE your marriage is officially dissolved is the same choice your wife had.

Have you physically cheated on your wife before?

I just want to understand this:

You had an emotional affair two years ago (affairs can take up to 5 years to get over).

Your wife then has her own affair.

You react by starting back up with Cat Lady and talking about how bad you need sex?

I get the impression there may be some validity to what your wife is saying.

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 10:25 AM, April 21st (Thursday)]

You feel guilty because you are in an affair with someone you were in an affair with prior.

I'll break the whole thing down.

2 years ago, I was struggling with severe depression. My father was dying from lung cancer, my daughter was recently diagnosed with diabetes, my son was diagnosed with cancer.

My wife and I were both struggling. When the flirting started, it was an escape. I was broken. I was the problem. I was escaping reality. These are all excuses, I know. I had no right to disrespect my wife and disrespect out marriage.

Before I even laid a finger on this woman, I voluntarily came clean to my wife. I had a choice to make, and I chose my wife. I didn't want to lose her, I love her, I didn't want to make the ultimate mistake and betray her.

I was 100% at fault. My wife wasn't the problem, I was. I was broken and in alot of pain, and yes, it did help to temporarily escape my problems, but I recognized it before it went where it was not supposed to go.

Since then, my wife and I have never been closer. 2 trips to Vegas, a trip to Costa Rica, date nights, a trip to Punta Cana to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary, all while cheating on me (as far as our anniversary).

And so, yes, I made a huge mistake, but not the ultimate mistake. I never laid a finger on that lady. I had a choice to make, and I chose my wife because she was the one I loved.

My wife was in the exact same situation. Flirting with another guy. She had a choice to make as well. She didn't choose me. She chose the other guy. And then blamed me for it because of the cat lady, and now wants a divorce.

Did we both make the same equal mistake as far as severity? I don't think so. I chose my wife because that's the woman I loved. She chose another guy and then blamed me for it.

I'm in no way completely innocent in this, but there's NO WAY what we each did being equal.

And I never said I reached out to the cat lady for sex. Yes, she is attractive. Yes, I could go visit her right now if I want. I even explained to her, even with my wife cheating on me, taking her rings off, filing for divorce, I still love her. I'm an emotional mess.

If I'm trying to get into her pants, I wouldn't start with how much I still love my wife.

I'm going to preface this by saying, no one "wins" in a divorce. In a long term marriage, it's a financial redistribution, no matter who is wrong or right. You are entitled to half of what is the sum total of the marriage as is she. That bites no matter what the circumstances.

My marriage was dysfunctional for a long time. I WAS on my own, he did ignore me, he did have emotional affairs, etc. He also is an addict, now sober. It seems as though your wife had real and valid hurts and concerns. Maybe you don't deny that, judging by your decision to get back to recovery work and your admission that you were a dry drunk. Nonetheless, nothing excuses her cheating. Nor does it give you a pass on your prior behavior, including the EA with the cat lady, which btw, imo you should be discussing with your sponsor. I GUARANTEE you, that EA hurt her terribly, no matter how long ago it happened, no matter that it was "just" an EA.

And she had a long ago affair, too, right? You two have a long history of hurting each other. I'm sad for both of you. And your kids.

If your wife found out about Cat Lady you shouldn't even have a way to contact her at this point. Her contact information should have been purged a long time ago.

All I see are excuses as to why you are broken.

This thread is one month and one day old and you have already started back up with an old emotional flame.

Sounds like you are looking for yet another escape.

We cross posted. Maybe you dealt with the cat lady issue, maybe you didn't. I know, in our marriage, we seemed closer, took trips, etc. But never really dealt with that elephant in the room. I oozed resentment. Which I hid.

She did choose the other guy, or more accurately, choose an exit affair, as it was. That is harsh, I know. Maybe it might have turned out differently if you had done other things, but hindsight is 20/20.

What am I supposed to do? I inappropriately flirted with another woman. I had no right doing that. I came clean, was not "caught", and told her everything because I didn't want to hide it from her. I slipped up for 3 weeks.

We talked & talked & talked about this. We took long walks in the park, sat on the bench for hours, got everything out in the open. She cried, I cried, we worked through the emotions and reconciled.

Then we went to Vegas and had a great time. We went out to restaurants and talked and laughed. The movies, date night, another trip to Vegas, a trip to Costa Rica, a trip to Punta Cana, everything was great, and then she met the guy in her office, told me after a couple of months that she's not happy, wants a separation/divorce, continues to see him, and doesn't want to be with me anymore.

I'm not trying to twist the story to make myself look better. I fucked up, I owned up to every part of it, voluntarily.

She fucked up, and it was, and still is my fault because of the flirting with the cat lady.

I still want to be with my wife. At least who she was for the last 26 1/2 years. I don't want to be with the cat lady. I want my wife. I can't be with my wife because she doesn't want me. She didn't choose me, she chose someone else, so please, someone, tell me what I'm supposed to do?

sounds like you are looking for yet another escape

But you're not in the room with me at night while I cry myself to sleep.

Why am I in so much pain, crying when no one is around because of how I feel, how I hurt?

Because I have to go through the pain, not around it, so please explain how I'm escaping?

I wish I COULD escape, but I can't. The only way is to go through it.

Some people can judge me and take my inventory if they want, that's cool.

[This message edited by JM72 at 11:24 AM, April 21st (Thursday)]

I'm not judging, I am going off what you are saying and giving feedback.

I've been through a divorce with infidelity that was also a dead bedroom. I know how lonely it is.

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 11:17 AM, April 21st (Thursday)]

I recommend lots and lots of therapy, working on yourself and no women (except your wife if she'll become truly remorseful and you'll be willing to give R a chance) for at least a year.

At least that's the advice I'd give myself in the weeks after D-day if I could.

Read "No more mr. nice guy" (great to help you re-build male friendships and in generally focus on yourself), "Toxic parents" (excellent book, especially given what happened with your mom), "Families and how to survive them" (a book imho all people should read at least once) and other books. Do the exercises therein. Focus on your mental and physical health. Focus on kids, relatives and male-friends. Volunteer. Focus on work, try to rebuild yourself financially and, when finances will allow, seek therapy. Until that's an option, look for support groups in your area, and if there are non, consider starting one (online and/or in-real-life). Get herbal remedies etc. to help you sleep. Yoga or other relaxation techniques via youtube, books,... No alcohol or other detrimental coping mechanisms which you can control.

I cried, I was numb, I screamed, I almost became an alcoholic, I was too needy and was searching for another woman/other women to make me feel whole/normal/worthy/... I became suicidal, got help. I survived and now I'm happy, even though I'm still single and haven't been in a serious relationship since (because I only recently determined I'm ready to be in a healthy relationship again).

So yeah, focus on the essentials. Stay away from other women so you can focus on the essentials without all the extra stuff sex sooner or later invariably brings (and heavens forbid some woman would get accidentally or "accidentally" pregnant by you). I'm a living proof a man can survive without sex etc. for over a year

There are no quick fixes to this situation. It will take a lot of time and hard work. The more emotionally healthy your approach to this sh-tfest, the better off you'll come out the other side, and the better off your kids and everyone else you care for will be.

We're here for you.

Look, usually when people say things that aren't true, it doesn't bother me, but I have to stand up for myself.

I have been 100% committed to my wife and my marriage after the flirting thing 2 years ago.

I would have never reached out to another woman to talk to. I didn't want another woman, I wanted my wife.

My wife doesn't want me, she wants someone else. I talk to another woman after finally realizing I can't have what I really want, my wife, knowing and accepting my marriage is now over, and I'm being unfaithful? I'm being dishonest, untrustworthy, and doing the same things?

How so? This isn't what I wanted or what I asked for. Everyone knows what I wanted. I can't have that. I need to move on. I'm not sleeping with this other woman. One of the reasons I reached out to her was, she was in an physically abusive relationship. She was getting smacked around, and when I cut ties, she was living in a hotel, trying to get away from him. I have always wondered if she was at least safe, if she got away from him.

I'm gonna do what's best for Mike from here on out. Some of my choices were made for me, unfortunately. I'm just left with picking up the pieces and moving on.

It's not your fault. She did choose this. The cat lady is her internal justification. As are all the other "reasons" she gave you.

I'm sorry you are hurting. This is a horrible situation for you. Please continue to reach out here, practice your recovery work, pray, whatever works. I DON'T think the cat lady, or another temporary relationship is healthy right now, for either party. But who knows? In a year, that might work. Right now, you need to focus on you.

As for your wife, think 12 steps. Detach. You DIDN'T cause this, can't cure it or control it. Let go...