SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I found only when getting copies of her texts that her conversations with him were concerning problems in our marriage and he was giving her good, very good counsel. She did not want me to see texts for fear of making things worse between us.

My anger took control and yes, this is when she said I was crazy to think there could be something between her and her associate. We argued about this much because she would not let me see texts. She had always given me pre-eminence in our relationship and did not want me to know she was talking to another individual for help. She was also seeing a therapist and strongly entreated me to go with her, but I refused. Our problems, I thought I could handle.

The second guy she was texting (video guy) I thought was the same man (from CA) and that she had started up again. There were a lot of other terrible things going on in our marriage at that time and I was like the ostrich and did not even see the problems I was causing. I definitely did not realize that I was the problem. But I was.

Immediately I fired the associate in CA and ordered her to break all contact with him forever. This is when all hell broke loose. Wishes is a very delicate, gentle soul unless she starts sensing mistreatment or abuse, and then the gloves come off.

I found out later that she had not stopped texting this new guy, but on the contrary took it underground. Since I had already fired the associate in CA, Wishes saw no need to inform me that this new guy was not him.

I found out about the PA when I discovered Wishes had been seen entering into a motel. A friend of mine made the call and although he had seen Wishes he never saw the man she was there to meet. Again, I assumed it was the man she had been texting who I had assumed was the man from CA and did not know any different until later.

Trying to get the timeline correct:

1. She is texting coworker in CA for business, and also for advice on her marriage. (wrong move on her part, IMO to talk to people of the opposite sex about marital problems.)

2. You get jealous. She hides texts (another wrong move IMO) because the two of you are already having marital problems, not related to CA friend and she is afraid you will be upset if you read the advice CA friend is giving to her.

3. She starts to see and text video guy too. You don't know she now is texting two guys. (I don't condone texting people of the opposite sex when one is married.)

4. You fire guy in CA because you believe she is having an A with him. (This is not your bad, because she refused to show you the texts. She actually forced your hand.)

5. You meet video guy when they are having lunch. You don't know she is having an affair with him, because you thought she was having one with CA guy who is now fired. You suspect nothing. (She an own this too.)

6. You see the naked pic of video guy on her phone. She denies it is physical. (She can own this.)

7. Your friend tells you she was seen going to a hotel, and you verify she has lied to you about video guy. (On her.)

8. You became abusive to her, physically, emotionally and psychologically. This is partly on you. You apparently went too far, although neither you nor she has told anyone what you actually did, or said.

Once I discovered the real truth, it did not make a whole lot of difference to me at the time because she still cheated on me. It was only after reading TAM, and watching her protect me, and see the treatment she was getting there, did it really hit me as to what I had done. The same horrible treatment she was getting there was nothing compared to what I had been doing to her for over a year. I could say a lot of bad things about some of the posters on TAM but I will save those judgments for myself.

This is a little strange to me. I read the stuff over on TAM, and they weren't insulting her, they were just calling her out on her stuff. (Ignore the troll who was saying absurd things and who was deleted later, but some of their quotes remained in other people's posts.) Why would you abuse her yourself for over a year, and then not let her be treated like an adult, and be held accountable by people she went to for help?

I was very wrong. I came forward because I really believe Wishes will go down in flames rather than tell what really happened. If she does not open up, she is only going to be hurt again. I am still holding my breath, waiting for that one to come out. When it does, if it does, my one and only defense is that I'm a guy. I would do everything so much different if I had it to do over. I nuked our life together. It was me.

What really happened? Neither of you is willing to say. Why are you both posting on marriage forums for advice when neither of you is willing to tell the people trying to help you the information they need to give informed and good advice?

I was warned of my anger many, many times on this forum but l loved it, I nursed it, it gave me power and strength to go on. It was the one passion that kept me from feeling other passions, however, by holding on to that anger, it totally clouded my vision and I had no perception of reality.

What did you do to her in anger that neither of you is willing to share?

Nothing you did justified her having an affair. If you were horrible to her, she should have left you, not had an affair.

BTW, I'm glad you have stopped seeing OMW. Did you keep seeing her even after she showed your children Wishes' thread? Why? If someone did something to hurt my children, they would no longer be part of my life.

DoneGone seems to be going through some weak moments and based on what I've read of the last few pages on her thread, she is turning on the guilt big time in her thread.

DoneGone seems to be going through some weak moments and based on what I've read of the last few pages on her thread, she is turning on the guilt big time in her thread.

I wouldn't phrase it that way. I think she's opening up. More calling out some things DG is doing that he shouldn't, to illustrate that they both need therapy and help. They are divorced. He has moved on. To do what she says he is, frankly is wrong and there is no justification for it. DG, I would venture, would agree. Obviously it's because he's in pain, but just because one was wronged does not mean all actions are okay. We are better than that. They may be understandable, but that does not make them right.

She is also right not to agree for drinks, etc unless he stops with other women. That is fair. It is his choice, she is not telling him what to do. But if he reaches out to her, as his ex, she is well within her rights to say that a condition for starting down a path of possibly getting back together is him not having an ongoing relationship at the same time.

Look, these are two people who still love each other. One betrayed the other. There were clearly issues in the marriage (whose doesn't?) that should have been addressed, and there could have been better ways to deal with her infidelity and what has happened since. Great. Enough blame to spread around. So what? The real question is where do they go from here and how do they approach it? With integrity and character or not? It is up to them. Regardless, I hope they both get the healing they need.

[This message edited by Walloped at 9:41 PM, March 26th (Saturday)]

To me, the level of offense she takes after being asked for drinks, is un-necessary puritanical .

Maybe she realizes that if she plays it too easy, he might never be interested in her again.

[This message edited by kimichi at 11:57 PM, March 26th (Saturday)]

I was not speaking of everybody on TAM. I have already said that I think she has gotten a very good care there, however, I am talking about the 'assholes' on TAM who wanted to stomp, stomp, stomp her until they had vented all their own rage. This was just a small percentage. I only wanted Wishes here because of the Wayward forum but I cannot speak for her.

Also, we disagree on something else. Ok, I have only read the entire thread once, what I see is not the people of TAM busting her bullshit, because, there has been no bullshit. What I can say however, is that there were those who patiently waited her out, did not abuse her and let her know that there had to be more to her story.

This is why I am posting.

Look, I was really hesitant and don't know if I'm going to continue posting on your thread. The reason is that I'm not sure if you're in the place of getting help. Many posters here try to help you and once it's something you don't want to hear you ignore it. It's one thing to disagree and to engage in a discussion which opens the door to offer you help or just ignoring things. Your attacks on the guys on TAM also say a lot on your mindset. Anyway, let's try one last time

This is from the SI Healing Library:

"Stop blaming yourself for his actions. You are in no way responsible...even if you are Attila the Hun!"

Here is the article on SI. I think you can benefit from reading it all.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/reconcile_musts.asp

It says everything. No matter "how horrible" you were, I doubt you were Attila the Hun. Reading your last posts it is possible that you will continue to dismiss it but even under those circumstances the denial of the above truth, made through years long experience of SI moderators and members, even if you refuse to see it as in regard to your ex wife's necessity to heal, then it will prevent your own healing, even if you were wrong (and it's more than possible you were). I also doubt and I will explain it too in details below that your alleged misdeeds were the cause of your ex wife's infidelities (the plural is not a mistake as there were more than one). She even admitted it on the other site and I will come to talk about it later. Yet, despite this fact I will only post here at the beginning that someone who feels so threatened by someone (as you described yourself) does not choose an affair, for sure not multiple and ongoing ones) as coping mechanism but runs the other direction and seeks help and protection. I think your ex wife was not that threatened but actually felt very secure in her actions and choices of cheating. Additionally, the sheer level of disdain uttered at you in the conversations with this low life imposter which pretended to be a "true man" as well as the fact that she STILL continued to have an A with this evil turd who constantly called you every despicable and degrading name in the book while pretending to be an alleged "alpha" man (who I doubt even know what a real alpha means)who really knew how to sexually satisfy her unlike her "Loser Beta BH" while using this specific behavior and circumstance to escalate her affair and deciding to let him sleep with her (=this behavior of him only increased her jollies and stimulated her sexually) is showing a great deal about her morals, her frame of mind, her mindset as well as her intentions and is simply beyond any comprehension. It's also beyond any forgiveness! The depth of your ex- wife's betrayal is simply astonishing. Unbelievable! And it has nothing to do with your actions as we will see immediately. It's a part of her mindset and character not some "temporary insanity". Furthermore and this only emphasizes the flawed character, mindset and morals of your ex wife and has nothing to do with your action, whether you were right or wrong, is as following:

Again, your ex wife cheated with the first guy (EA) violating the boundaries of your marriage (inappropriately discussing her marriage with him) not because she wanted advice and the other man wanted to help her but because they were deep in an emotional affair and wanted to turn it most probably into a physical one. You busted them and got angry which is most natural for every betrayed spouse. Instead of stopping her affair your ex gas lighted you, made you to believe you are crazy and angrily escalated her affair. On her thread on TAM she also straightforwardly admitted that it was not the sex but the manipulation, power and control that were the main incentive of her behavior. Her continuing to lie and gaslight you made you to believe that it was the same man yet in fact it is irrelevant who it was as her continuing deceit made it possible for you to make those mistakes. And your rationalization off taking the gloves of only show how vile her conduct was and what a vindictive kind of person she is. Yet, her vindictiveness is not the result of your abuse but you busting her and preventing her affairs. The only sure facts from those event, that you'll maybe want to re-write (which you know will not change the truth and reality), is that your ex wife was never afraid of you, the story of "your abuse of her" is nonsense and another emotional manipulation from her own school of abuse, that you were in fact very forgiving, too forgiving in my opinion and that she doesn't get anything, even not now, and continues her old behavior. What she's feeling is not remorse at all. It is a combination of self-pity (as she was whining that she has now to work of still continuing being a SAHM most probably combined with shame, regret, confusion, disbelief, hurt and even resentment, hate and anger. That's all. But never remorse

Anyway, as I alreay said, I have read her thread on the other website before responding to you here to get a better view of the situation by reading both sides and compare them as well as cross checking both your versions. There are too many inconsistencies in the story and especially to the approach you took in the last pages of your old thread when I compare it to her version on TAM. It just doesn't make any sense. Besides, your ex wife has stated very clearly what was so appealing to her in the cheating. It has nothing to do with your statements here and even make less sense than the other aspects. I think you read and interpret it very selectively but should pay more attention to it. She stated quite straightforwardly that it was not the sex but her ego and the power (=control) she felt through this. By her own statement and the rage and wrath she showed there despite the mostly kind and polite support she got there I do believe your ex wife is a very controlling and angry person. You should carefully listen to what she's said here. Attacking people who are trying to help her that way is like spitting into the well you're drinking from. A very problematic attitude!

In other words, it was about manipulation and control over the other man (and naturally over you). As she stated over there, it's her own words in her thread that I'm quoting here, not some interpretation of mine. When asked what was it that she was craving and was so thrilling in the affair for her she said: "the power was intoxicating and the ego trip". So, although it was about you too, it was not restricted to you yourself but other men as well. She stated she used sex as a mean to get those feelings over the other man and not vice versa. Which first of all is really mean and shows your ex wife is not that kind of angel you try to portray her in the last pages. Maybe the both of you contributed to this which once again in regard to the inconsistencies let me question the nature of your marriage and if it was that good as both you have portrayed it. Yet, even give the fact that the marital issues as it seems go 50% to each side, it was still her choice to cheat.

And as SI state this it was wrong even if you were Attila the Hun. If you want to heal and right now it seems to me you extremely swing like a pendulum from one side to another which is not good you should avoid the extremities and internalize the blame shifting as in the future it will cause only more anger and wrath on your side as a result of this. If you did wrong prior to the affair I do not suggest you rug sweep it, yet you out of guilt rug weeping her behavior will not help you too. As it is normally suggested here on SI if you want to reconcile, before you deal with the marital pre affair issues, start to deal with her infidelity first. Additionally, another SI wisdom is that first you heal yourself (from her infidelity), meanwhile she heals her-self and then both of you heal the marriage which only then will include the marital issues, none of which has to do, even not in the slightest, with her infidelity. And by the way, if you were that monster, how comes she so desperately wants back to you, after her affair allegedly set her free from that monster! I don't believe in an ounce of your last posts. Yet in those at the beginning of your firat ones in the old thread very much!

The last thing I will mention is that I don't buy any of the stories about her abuse. Every time a woman cheats or does something wrong than comes the ultimate mantra of the abuse to justify her wreckless and immoral behavior. Sorry, there are millions of men that were abused in their pasts including by women in their life and it fucking does not give them any right to cheat and abuse others. Isn't this the other mantra we hear all the time when it comes to men? Her past has zero of relevance as in regard to her abusing other people who didn't do anything to her and have nothing to do with this abuse. I have no sympathy with cheaters who screw others, mistreat their loved ones and cry abuse when they are hold now responsible for their misdeeds and I make no differences between men and women. Your ex wife should woman up, take responsibility and stop accusing half of the world for her mistreatment of you. Not only there were bullshit on her part but by her behavior on TAM she shows how great her bullshit is. It's overwhelming. Your ex wife is an expert manipulative bully and no different from any other male abuser that we've endlessly encountered in similar stories. And as I see your responses now, your reaction is no different than any female survivor of male abuse who blames herself for the misdeeds of her abusing husband. There is no difference between the abusers and they are all the same whether they are male or female. The same is with the survivor of abuse. As other mentioned you are in a very weak place now. You were abused by your ex wife. You are a survivor of abuse. Ther are millions of men like you. I think you need to get help to heal from that abuse. It's no shame for men to admit they were abused by a woman and for sure get help for this.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 4:11 AM, March 27th (Sunday)]

Actually - your xww stated that you did not go to any mc after the motel incident - not 1x, not 2x, not 3x. When cornered into stating that you must be liar on your thread here - she explains you did not go to mc 3x but to her personal counsellor 3x. She's playing word games. She's even dividing her chosen support forum by telling secret parts of her story to the sympathetic members so they will jump up and be her knight in shining armour.

DG - guy - very few bs' were perfect pre dday. I was a bitch. I was convinced from day 1 of our relationship that my husband was going to fuck me over - so I never let him know I loved him - pretty horrible I'd say. In fact - my husband had every right to ask for a divorce. He did not have a right to cheat on me.

We are in a new marriage now - and while he worked on becoming a safe partner for me, I've worked on admitting and showing my love and being vulnerable - because I deserve - and he should want - a better marriage than the one he nuked with his AP.

DG - it's fine to admit you made bad choices and conducted yourself badly before dday. She still needs to dig to resolve her issues with manipulation, lying (I lost count of the number of times she contradicted herself over on that despicable site) and with blame shifting. I'm not even going to touch on the flirting and coy comments.

I read her whole thread today to try to see why you are here intent on self-flagellation. How much of her behaviour there do you think our mods would tolerate here?

[This message edited by sassylee at 1:05 AM, March 27th (Sunday)]

I have read both threads, here and on TAM. It strikes me that we have two damaged hurt people who may love each other but have lost the kinds of connections that might have lead them back together.

The landscape of their love resembles a World War One trench scape. Done Gone and Wishes have dug their trenches, supported them with weapons, and creating, in depth the heavy defenses needed to blast the other out of existence. Now in dead lock they cannot reach our for fear of ceding the other one advantage. Neither one can risk a flag of truce, meeting in the middle and leaving the crap behind.

So there they sit, behind their defenses, lashing out, hurting one another, but solving nothing.

Their story is one of the saddest and most painful I have ever read.

And if your great transgression in your marriage is the reaction to the father-figure colleague...it all could've been resolved if she had simply told you she was concerned for the marriage and getting advice. Why couldn't she had said "please call his wife - she will assure you it's on the up and up" btw - did the colleague's wife know?

DG - if you had come here to SI all those years ago with a tale about over-texting with a male coworker - hiding her phone - refusal to show the texts - WE ALL WOULDVE THOUGHT SHE WAS CHEATING! This is classic cheating behaviour. These are red flags and you were right to be concerned. The fact it was innocent and she could have easily cleared this up through transparency or even *gasp* honesty - well - that's on her. It's unfortunate that she was unwilling to cede control and power in that situation and her father figure paid a price for her deceit.

Please - try to see this situation through objective eyes. Try to untangle yourself from your emotional involvement and think about what solid advice you would give one of us if we were to tell your story and come to SI for clarification and direction.

Strength and clarity brother...

I nuked our life together. It was me.

Definitely a portion of it.

Without knowing the details inside your marriage, it is possible that you did enough damage to have terminated your relationship. But that obviously has zero to do with her transgressions. How many marriages end in divorce WITHOUT infidelity? A whole hell of a lot.

But this site is about surviving infidelity. We are not marriage counselors, but we are pretty good at lending support....and having an idea where a person stands on their road to healing. Sometimes it is easier for us to sense if someone is showing remorse, regret, guilt, codependency, or outright resentment than the people who are right in the middle of the mess. And I am glad that you are owning your mistakes in the marriage. But you are owning too much in the marital decay. You state that you hold your wife 100% accountable for her cheating, but I believe that you think her cheating may have never occurred if not for your behavior over the years. That is nothing more than speculation, but again, that is laying blame unduly at your own feet.

Like many others, I have read Wishes thread...at least up until a couple of days ago. That is the first time that I have ever visited any other infidelity related website. My only experience is here, so I am sure that my views may be biased. But to be honest, for the lack of strict moderation, that thread is, like you stated, full of many helpful members. Sure, there are a few assholes(who would have been throttled here), but what I saw was a whole lot of unwillingness from Wishes to seek deep inner help. I could be wrong, but I believe that you stated that she researched that site before she posted---so she knew what she could be getting into. And yet she skirted around for dozens of pages without any sort of substance that is indicative of searching for help. Maybe she has opened up in the last few days, but I honestly expected to see something entirely different when you first stated that (1) she was not in a good way mentally post-divorce, and (2) that she was on an online forum searching for help. I know that everybody's personality differs from person to person, but I expected a little more contrition.

You state that she is protecting you. Others here see it as manipulation, especially because she is not digging deep. Is banter what is needed for a broken person looking for help, or is reaching out...and showing some level of exposure....more conducive to healing? You can bet your ass that if Wishes posted here with a stop sign, that the former waywards would call her out....just like the helpful ones over on TAM....in a heartbeat. They see it for what it is. You can beat yourself up as much as you want(and much of it may be rightly so), but there is a HUGE difference between making huge marital mistakes with the right intentions(or even perceived intentions) versus totally destructive, self-serving, and manipulative behavior. The mindfuck that she originally put on her kids is what immediately comes to mind. They were the innocents that got played.

This doesn't mean that Wishes is some sinister person. But you are definitely shouldering some of her blame. She is broken right now. So are you. I am not sure if your intention was always to seek out a relationship with her again after divorce, but right now, the two of you have your own healing to do until either of you should reconsider dating. She has to heal on her own. She has to know that you will not be there as a guaranteed support. You are sending her signals that are contrary to this.

Keep working on yourself. Keep opening up like you have as of late. Work on your flaws that were issues in your last marriage, so you will be a better partner in your next relationship. And if you and Wishes still desire to reunite in the future, then the two of you will work to become better partners. But she has to get honest with herself first.

She's playing word games. She's even dividing her chosen support forum by telling secret parts of her story to the sympathetic members so they will jump up and be her knight in shining armour.

sassylee

Wholeheartedly agree. And when I read the latest post from today so the way how she manipulates the members there is simply unbelievable. Also how some of the members play along with her, something that wouldn't be possible on SI. She's implementing there successfully the "Divide et Impera – the Divide and Conquer rule"! She's doing this by spreading rumors and certain connotations without the intent to prove anything. She's also played with information by almost not answering any of the poster's relevant questions there and the irrelevant information she exposed there was a manipulated version of the truth too. She was also called out by the posters on this. Therefore, her intent was not to get help but manipulate her ex and beat him into submission and back into the marriage. She is very clever, very manipulative, her tactic was unscrupulous and at the end successful.

The most disturbing thing is her manipulation, the claim or the notion she creates as if she's there to protect him. As I explained above it is nonsense. The thing is that even if the worst thing happened then there's police, courts, RO and whatever other means to deal with it. No, her cheating has nothing to do with it. If this all is true then she should go and report this to police. Her not doing so isn't protecting anyone. I suppose she's not doing this because none of those claims are true. It makes also no sense that after being allegedly abused by him in the most terrible way she fights with all the manipulative ways to get that "monster" back in her life instead of ensuring that her and her kids are protected from him. Also the stories how she came to DG house (in his first thread) make no sense in that context. She doesn't look or acts as an abused wife but tries to make this connotation to get him back. That's ridiculous

However, if it's not true then this is terrible too because she's ruining his reputation and playing mind games with him. By the way, I saw a lot of stories like that discussed based on the anonymity of the web. The most terrible and sad things about TAM is that there are members who play along with her bullshit. I'm sure it wouldn't go with the former waywards here who would call her out on her bullshit. They would not let her manipulate them in this way. Our biggest problem is that we as a comunity miss a lot of information, that we are not told the whole truth and as such it is very difficult to maintain an objective attitude and to help the both of them.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 8:00 AM, March 27th (Sunday)]

Done gone, what did you hope to achieve through opening up this new thread? That is a serious question.

Hope you and your kids are well.

DG - I've read and re-read so I have a full understanding of what you and Wishes have each individually shared.

Here's the thing. If she had been willing to be open and honest about her "father-figure" guy, you could have more easily come to terms with the massive amounts of texts going back and forth. But she shut you out. She was behaving like a wayward, even if she wasn't at that point.

Marriage means NO SECRETS. No "private" conversations that go on and on and on.

You had every right to be suspicious. She only used the revelation of innocence to leverage you.

Does that give you license to go be hateful to her now on the secretive behavior?

No.

But to publicly take responsibility for contributing to her affair? No to that as well.

I can't help but feel she's still manipulating you. She is 100% responsible for triggering you. That's ALL on her. She behaved like a wayward. You firing a guy without all the evidence in front of you? Perhaps that's partly on you. But it's partly on her as well, since she held the cards that would have made this all open and honest.

She needs to get to a place of being 100% responsible for that behavior, as well as her wayward behavior, before she could ever be a safe person for you. She needs to apologize to her father-figure friend because she orchestrated him getting fired. She needs to be committed to living in a 100% open and honest lifestyle before she's safe for anyone.

DG, you've been a gentleman from the first post here, whether you will see that or not.

I have to concur with Spock and Sassylee.

I think you are being manipulated into rewriting the past. And, you have a bit of Stockholm syndrome.

Who nuked your marriage?

You?

Most certainly not.

Just because you chose to flee the blast zone doesn't mean you had any hand in the end of your marriage. The point of one's life after dday is to get out of infidelity.

You did this the best way you knew how.

From the beginning, you felt guilt for the anger you demonstrated. We had to tell you that you were entitled. I think you were restrained, actually.

You never involved your daughters.

Quite the opposite. You were fearful for their happiness and safety. Your ex wife? Not so much!

She's still got a tremendous amount of healing to do. A long way to go to becoming a whole and balanced person. I say this because she still thinks of herself as "not being able to live without her husband." This us such an unhealthy way to view oneself. You do not need to be with a person who cannot live without another. It's a prescription for disaster.

Please let us support you and remind you that you've done nothing wrong. You've suffered an enormous shock that still ripples within you today. You did the best by everyone. Now, do the best by YOU.

DG - wishes has shared some deep dark horrific thing you've done with one of her white knights on her thread. This white knight is implying you have done something horrible - not related to the father figure. Why not just tell us? If we agree with you that it is awful - then maybe we can help.

Maybe you did awful things to the detriment of your marriage. But this is not a bad spouse support forum. Those are out there. This is specifically an infidelity support forum. And here - we acknowledge that as betrayed spouses, we may have done things that made the marriage horrible - unbearable - divorcable. This in no way condones the infidelity. If your xww was so harmed and angry by whatever your "deed" was - she should have divorced you. For whatever reason, she thought her cheating and betrayal of you and her daughter's was the way to deal with your "deed".

You say she is protecting you. So - why not remove that burden from her. Why not just tell us what you did that you feel played a part in her poor coping mechanisms. I'll tell you - the way she's alluding to it and the secrecy - imaginations are running wild on that other site. Murder and rape are being tossed about there - which certainly plays into the manipulation so many are seeing in both your stories. So why not let it out - these forums are anonymous. We don't know you in real life. So why not give us the info we need to help you?

[This message edited by sassylee at 1:02 PM, March 27th (Sunday)]

I concur with sassylee.

Look, there are a few other folks recently in JFO who weren't so honest with their circumstances. One has since come clean to a larger degree. The other has still not. In the end, they hurt only themselves as the advice they've received is really not appropriate for the situations they are in. Yeah, we may not think so highly of you once you tell us, but honestly, who cares? We are a bunch of anonymous internet strangers, and none of us are perfect people, let alone spouses.

What matters most is that you get the advice and support you need, and really, the only way that happens is through total honesty.

Finally, the whole infidelity shit sandwich is predicated on secrecy and dishonesty. I think as part of the healing, for both the BS and WS, is to live a life of transparency, honesty, and integrity. Doesn't matter who the wronged party is. So why not take that step? We are here for you.

I agree with Kimichi.

And Mr. Spock is dead on in his last two posts.K8 too.

Regarding Sassylee's post, even if there is some big, dark secret, the way she conducted herself is not acceptable period. She was acting like she enjoyed the affair and was torturing the guy.

I agree with Spock that DG is in a very bad place right now. Adding to his guilt is not helping the OP.

I too want to know what he claims as bad behavior on his part but in the end, she was still wrong.

No, her cheating has nothing to do with it. If this all is true then she should go and report this to police. Her not doing so isn't protecting anyone. I suppose she's not doing this because none of those claims are true. It makes also no sense that after being allegedly abused by him in the most terrible way she fights with all the manipulative ways to get that "monster" back in her life instead of ensuring that her and her kids are protected from him.

I'm very quick to defend and protect victims of domestic abuse and yet this is exactly why I'm not trusting her account of things. She claimed that him asking and enforcing reasonable boundaries in the M while knowing full well he was doing it against the wrong man (though still an EA OM) was controlling and akin to abuse. I'm sure DG did verbally say things that under normal circumstances would be considered emotional abuse. I have a hard time believing things were as bad as she claimed considering her accounts of it range from how DG is the perfect H to he's to blame because of the abuse she suffered from him. That doesn't make any sense and the "abuse" she did reveal sounds like the angry behavior of most BSes put into that kind of situation. I'm sure many took it worse and I don't blame them either or consider what they did to be on par with an abusive spouse! Infidelity pushes people to their emotional extremes and they don't act in ways they normally would. A remorseful WS sees this and learns not to hold it against the BS. As long as she holds this over DG's head as the reason she cheated, she is not remorseful.

DG used the terms - deliberate physical torture - in his last thread here. Any light he could shed on that would be useful.

Clearly from Wishes perspective the abuse she is alluding to seems to be situational.

Pre my wh ea turned pa I was acutely aware of his none stop texting. I know now in his mind there was nothing to it just a close female friend that he could confide in (completely inappropriate, summer of 2013). In my mind I could feel something was amiss, he had other female friends before and I had no issue. This time he was hiding his phone, she was texting until midnight, it all seemed off.

Long story short, I went ballistic, screaming, throwing things, telling him that our marriage was over. I demanded that he end this friendship which he claimed to do. I was told that I was pathetic, crazy, needed therapy, controlling, abusive and jealous. This continued for a year and a half and I did believe that there was something wrong with me but those gut feelings never left. The friendship went underground, an ea/pa ensued and I was truly none the wiser. I thought for the most that they had remained friends.

In addition, I have spent many years working as a crisis counselor in DV. We were trained very well on how to weed out situations that didn't qualify as DV. In my 8 years (200 women annually and a significant amount of men) never did I once meet a victim of DV who in her situation went on to have an affair, with stories of playing footsie while the spouse was around or writing demeaning texts/emails. They were in all honesty terrified to move for the most part.

Your 5ft2 ex wife on the one hand says you were the most perfect husband but then alludes to having to do your will. She paints a very conflicting story that she has no desire to explain except to one poster, in private, due to her sympathetic ear.

Wishes could have had her post shut down long ago but she didn't. You have offered to give up posting here so that she can benefit.

Done gone, you're a great dad and I wonder how much of that is influencing your most recent posts.

Continue to tell your story. You have a strong SI support. Stop alluding to the past and be honest so we can help. Sadly I think your children are reading these threads and deserve a conclusion to this whole overdrawn out mess.

{{{Hugs}}}

Here's the thing. If she had been willing to be open and honest about her "father-figure" guy, you could have more easily come to terms with the massive amounts of texts going back and forth. But she shut you out. She was behaving like a wayward, even if she wasn't at that point.

I totally agree with this and I have to say that I wonder if she wasn't actually in a physical affair with this guy. Number of miles away only makes hooking up a bit harder but two people that want to get together will find a way. You fired him for what did occur. Well, were you fortunate enough to happen upon a terminable offense? Is California an "at will" employment state? Because I just cannot believe you could fire him and have no repercussions for doing so (unless you have and just didn't disclose it here).

Aside from everything else, it really boggles my mind how she ever let you divorce her given how manipulative she seems to be in words and actions.