SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DG, as we often point out here in situations where kids are involved that not only is the BS the betrayed victim but the children are also victims of that betrayal. Not only where you gas lighted by your XW, but your daughters were as well. So what did your daughter do to your XW to deserve such abusive mental manipulation? You don't have to answer us. Just something for you to mull over.

Speaking of gas lighting, you know what I remember most from your story, DG? Two words.

Othello Syndrome

Did she ever explain to you where she came up with that one? I mean, to actually assign a psychiatric label to your state of being AS A RESULT OF HER GAS LIGHTING is some seriously cold shit. VERY cold. Did you read about that also in the messages between her and that CA coworker?

Also, as for the CA coworker all I can say is that if he wanted to give your XW good advice about her marital issues it would be "I think it would be best if you went to a licensed professional marriage counselor for advice and guidance" from the moment your XW started to say to him "I have problems in my marriage." To do so otherwise was just asking to perform a harikari on one's career. I wouldn't care what level of friendship they had. That one is just straight up common sense on top of needing to respect your privacy with regard to your personal life and your marriage back then. He should have known better AND HE DID IT TO HIMSELF.

I think your XW is VERY skilled at manipulation. I can't help but wonder she carries resentment from you busting up her budding EA with CA coworker and used it to feed to her rationalization hamster for the PA with that "teenager for life" AP.

All I can say is that as long as you try and hand hold your XW into fixing herself you'll be that crutch she can use to blame shift her issues when it becomes tougher for her to look deeper into herself in the mirror. The whole point of her doing this on her own is to determine if she has the strength and desire to change for herself. This is her crucible. You shouldn't screw with that process. Point the way for her, but from afar.

At this point since you both are divorced that this isn't so much as an effort to R. It is more like trying for a new beginning. Make sure new beginnings are with someone way better than the last. That includes your XW fixing herself to be much better than she was before.

I think there is something very disturbing about this thread and the conduct here.

1. Asking for help but withholding crucial information from us with really poor and banal excuses is misleading everyone. If there is no intent to talk about things one should not speak about them but those things that are real and can be discussed. I think we would not get that information even if miraculously the OP's EX would show on SI. This is already a proven fact (by her conduct)

2. The denial of things that were clearly stated is very suspicious. From all of the OP's post it is simply not how he is. This change is very suspicious. Also the denial of simple facts that the breech of boundaries in the first place has nothing to do with infidelity.

3. The horrible things that were done turned suddenly to be a most trivial shouting and screaming that is in no case and especially under the circumstances of infidelity an "abuse". This kind of change in version is to me suspicious as well. Also if shouting and screaming is abuse so is every kind of raising a voice in an argument. This is simply nonsense and unreliable.

4. Besides, it seems that both new versions are too identical. It seems as if the OP is dictated what to say and is someone who's will is completely broken.

5. It seems that the OP is not interested in discussing his situation and the arguments that are raised but either continues to disregard them stating the same things all the time, is partially denying things he said, continues to withhold information and so on.

6. The frequent change of versions is also problematic. It makes the whole conduct unreliable. It also creates a place for speculation as many versions could not be only replaced by other versions but many sub versions. It also deflects our ability to concentrate on what is fact and what is a mere phantasy. The change of versions is not only between the original post and this one but within this very new post itself

Again, my gut feeling is telling me that there is something terribly wrong going here. Nothing of which was mentioned earlier. I think VS summarized this thread very well. The whole thread is shouting Stockholm Syndrome. I think the OP was put under pressure and threatened. I also ask not only why OP's EX is not coming to SI but why he's still posting in JFO (one year later). I suspect the ex will never show on SI and we will never get the information.

To me it seems as if OP's wayward spouse is engaging with us (and therefore has no intent to come to SI) via this thread so that she could convince him by making us agree with her points without having to deal herself with the people here in the wayward forum that would expose her bullshit. Personally, I believe she's abused him that much that she's broken any free will of him to fight against her abuse. It's a typical trait of many abused spouses and especially as VS said with Stockholm Syndrome.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:01 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

I like this above point^^^!

Done gone, I suspect you are writing these posts but who is truly speaking to us, Done gone or Wishes?

{{{Hugs}}} to Donegone and his children.

I noticed you quoted every one and addressed except my comment.

Go NC, trust me I know what I am telling you, get far and away from her.

If you lashing out to her upon discovery of her at motel, then I can assure it is and was not abuse."

When I found my ex was messing around, let me tell you something of the verbal onslaught I gave her, it would have made Eminem blush.

We are bilingual so I gave it to her in both languages, and guess what? Not abusive...

But this is her narcissism trying to distort things to manipulate you.

She either has a personality disorder, a sociopath, either way get as far and away from her as possible.

Tell her you rescind your invitation for coffee, (not that she deserved it anyways) and send her a firm NO contact letter.

You committed the ultimate crime against her (which for a Narcissist is calling them out) she is going to make you pay dearly if you let her.

Right now you are an abuser, wait until she ups the anti, and its coming....Go back and re-read your first original posts from start to finish.

She is a Class A manipulator and using your own children against you was not beneath her.

She is still doing it now, let me explain to you how she did it, she did not want you communicating with the OBS, am I right? She knows your daughters are your weakness because you are a dad....What does she do? She purposely puts something on a site she know the OBS frequents and would have been easily identifiable to you, whether she knew that she would tell your daughters or not is irrelevant, she knew it would get back to you.

You saw what she wanted you to see, and you gave her the reaction she wanted, hook, line, and sinker, and now she got to turn you down.

See?... Then you still hand her a victim card like she is a damsel in distress in need of rescuing by some anonymous cyber bullies.)

She is calculated....

She is wold dressed in sheep clothing.

Don't take my word for it see for your self.

https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/five-powerful-ways-abusive-narcissists-get-inside-your-head/

I'd say right now she is working number 3, the Smear Campaign.

NO CONTACT

Get Therapy and tell them everything, even if you have to book 2-3 sessions, individually one that specializes in Abuse recovery and PTSD.

I shit you not bro.....

There are men in Prisons serving sentences because of women like these.

GET AWAY FROM HER!

[This message edited by Igotthis at 12:26 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

Igotthis,

It's not only yours but all of my comments as well. This was one of the reasons I wrote the comment above. We came to the same conclusion and in my opinion it does not fit into his wayward Ex wife's plan.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:37 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

DG

There is an excellent book that I think you should read. It will help you to escape the abusive relationship with your narcissist Ex. It was written by Dr. Tara Palmatier and is called "say goodbye to crazy". She is specialized in helping men escaping relationships with abusive women. If you read her book not only it will help you realize what an abusive narcissist your Ex is, not only as if the book was written about her but will especially give you the practical tools how to deal with your situation

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:17 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

DG, some relationships are just toxic. Some people are too. IMO, you're in a situation where you're dealing with both.

We have had the marriage that others could only fantasize about (I thought). My wife and I are both 44 years old and never really stopped dating.

Yet, now you're a monster with out of control anger issues. Color me confused. You reacted when she declined to show you the E-mails to and from her *father* figure? Why not react? She was hiding a relationship with another man, no matter how innocuous. She was sharing her emotions with him rather than you. Isn't that an EA? Not a romantic one, but emotional none the less.

While we're on the e-mails, how deeply did you dig? She kept them from you with such vehemence that I would almost bet money there was something more. Were you/did you do a forensic analysis to check for deleted files? Will Wishes go for a poly?

Here's the thing. You're divorced. What is it that Wishes has that you so desperately seek?

Dude, what's happening?

Strength

there is something that does not sit well with me with the new "tone" of this thread. I have read the original thread of DG and then I, regrettably, read some of Wishes on TAMS (gave up about page 5 because I think she's a manipulative narcissistic who I have no desire to help.)

DG's response to Alaska77 (on page 2 here) seems completely out of tenor of his usual post. In fact, he was rude and confrontational; frankly, I don't believe he had ever responded in that way; yet, the tone perfectly fits Wishes on TAM.

Whatever. narcissists love attention. Here she is being discussed in not one but two threads.

For the record, again, I will state, the good, honest BS members of SI are trying to help. We face, and have faced, great pain in our lives. We help each other because we are a community and we know what this pain feels like. WE should not be manipulated and made fools of. There are many brokenhearted here, not playing games and looking to get and give support.

Wishes is a big girl. If she wants support, let her visit this forum and get support. The people here will be honest. her actions are heinous and she's manipulative. We get this from WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. We do not have to read between the lines. IF she is open to ways she can change, put up boundaries and improve her moral core then she'll have no problem with SI. If you want genuine help to change, you'll get it here; if you want to play games and be manipulative, well,,,don't think SI members will be tolerant.

Here's my no nonsense two cents--take it or leave it. She's playing you. She is unremorseful and is disrespectful. Her low self esteem and poor boundaries show in how she is "flirting" on an infidelity site There is no love without respect and there is no forgiveness without justice. You are not respected and well...you can define justice for yourself.

She has no respect for you. None.

[This message edited by Biggestmistake at 12:39 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

Two points about what you posted:

The fact is, the OMW is a very good woman, however, she hates Wishes.

This is the same woman that got your children involved with this mess? She's not a good woman. What she did was disgraceful. Good people don't involve children in adult business. The fact she was married to Video Game Loser is less surprising to me in light of her behavior.

Now, as for your employee in CA that you fired? Lets just say if my bosses wife started confiding personal details of her marriage with me I hope I'd be smart enough to run for the hills. And texting my bosses wife day and night discussing their personal business? Jesus Christ, what an imbecile.

If I'd been in your shoes, knowing exactly what you've told me about their correspondence, I'd have fired him as well.

You need to cut yourself some slack here DG.

Once again, I must be in opposite world. Because in this world, it's not the skanky nasty cheaters who are not good and disgraceful but the OMW! The ADULT children who were dragged into this mess was done so by the cheaters. Frankly, the OMW owes NO ONE, not even DG, anything. She certainly does not owe the cheater anything. It's called exposure. We counsel it here everyday. BS, of which the OMW is, are told to expose the affair. They are told to out the cheaters to their boss, their families, their parents, etc. Exposing anything to adult children is not beyond the pale; what is beyond the pale is when a bs is labeled as not good and disgraceful for exposing an affair!

I hope that BS comes here to post, so we can hear her site. Maybe DG can direct here here. Since there are so many "inconsistencies" flying around, just perhaps what's attributed to her is false too...

what is beyond the pale is when a bs is labeled as not good and disgraceful for exposing an affair!

I don't have an issue with the OMW exposing the affair, not even to the adult children. My problem is in the manner she did so. Showing them the thread was over the top. A simple declaration would have been fine. I also believe at that point the affair had already been disclosed so this was just gratuitous spite on the part of the OMW.

Actually considering how manipulative and devious DG WS is; I think she did them a public service. To my knowledge, the WS was manipulating DG by involving his children and turning THEM against him. She was playing the victim, in a manner that many on this site have labeled as abusive.

So, actually DG and his children should be grateful that she had a part in salvaging and bringing to light how they were being manipulated. Regardless, the OMW owes no one, including DG, or his children anything.

And I stick by my original assessment, more than anyone the OMW should be the last one in this sick mess to be labeled "not good" or whatever.

Hope that poor woman is long gone and is just getting on with her life--without videogame boy (for whom she has no responsibility for being a loser nor does it say anything about her character for being married and cheated on by a loser.) Good luck to her, where ever she is!

DoneGone,

Regarding the "Father Figure"

My WW's OM was described to me as a very platonic friendship. They did discuss some the problems in our marriage. They discussed issues she was having and life's difficulties. Work, kids, school, current events, dreams and desires, me, music...

My WW told me he was like a "brother" to her. He was the big brother she never had.

She told me she was not physically interested in him. He was just a sounding board for the issues and ideas she had and she was like that for him.

I had agreed that they could be friends, but that it must stay platonic and that there would be complete open communication and no secrecy. She agreed.

Then I became, in her words, controlling and manipulative. She bought a new phone and installed a password on it. I pressured her to stop the secret texting and Facetiming. She told me I was crazy for not letting her have friends and that I was making something out of nothing.

But secrecy has a seductive quality to it. Slowly, over the course of many months, she grew to be very attached to him. She looked forward to the contact and she resented my consternation of her "brother"-like friend. While he initially praised and complemented me to her, slowly he suggested that I wasn't all that nice after all. That I was controlling and manipulative, like a puritan father that would tell his son to stop being gay and brow beat him with the bible.

Slowly and surely he drove a wedge between my wife and I. I was forced to pressure to her to stop texting and communicating while at the same time doing the pick me dance, even to the tune of buying us a million dollar house... It was a lose/lose scenario that was destined to fail.

Then she felt so close to him, so attached, so grateful, that she felt obligated to give him what he wanted--physical touch. They texted, talked, met, facetimed, for nearly 10 months, and then she gave herself to him in the back of his car and many times in hotels thereafter.

Never in her dreams did she ever think she would do that when they first started talking. But slowly this is what happens.

Now she says she doesn't know what came over her. She was so broken, so crazy. She didn't see how she let that happen. She was just trying to help him, to give him a hand.

You were stronger than I and insisted that the emotional affair end. She did end it.

My wife told me that if I forced her to end the relationship, then we were through. She told me she would end us if I ended them. She even requested divorce papers be drawn up from her brother in law lawyer. I backed down and allowed the EA to continue and just tried to reason with her.

So I waited for her to come out of it, much to the devastation of our family and our lives and that of my children. You forced the issue, and still were devastated.

Those were lose / lose scenarios we were facing. Either way we went we ended up devastated and with an adulteress wife.

So do not beat yourself up too much about asking her to end the friendship. Secret friendships are friendships that cannot and do not stand the light of honesty and integrity. How I wish I had taken your route. At least I could say I had tried.

NP5

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 1:55 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

HurtButHopeful? Your questions sting. I want to defend myself and throw myself to the wolves in the same motion. In all honesty, I desire to clean up the mess I have made. Most of what went down between Wishes and myself before the first texting incident is incidental to everything that followed. I am tempted to interject here and there on your outline, but actually, you are quite accurate.

1. You and Wishes had a wonderful, loving marriage for many years.

2. All of the sudden, you put her into an environment of physical, emotional and psychological abuse from another person.

3. She begins texting coworker in CA for business, and also for advice on her marriage due to the abuse you and the other person are putting her through. (wrong move on her part, IMO to talk to people of the opposite sex about marital problems.)

4. You get jealous. She hides texts (another wrong move IMO) because the two of you are already having marital problems, not related to CA friend and she is afraid you will be upset if you read the advice CA friend is giving to her.

5. She starts to see and text video guy too. You don't know she now is texting two guys. (I don't condone texting people of the opposite sex when one is married.)

6. You fire guy in CA because you believe she is having an A with him. (This is not your bad, because she refused to show you the texts. She actually forced your hand.)

7. You meet video guy when they are having lunch and they play footsies and disparage you in texts after you leave. You pay for their lunch. You don't know she is having an affair with him, because you thought she was having one with CA guy who is now fired. You suspect nothing. (She van own this too.)

8. You see the naked pic of video guy on her phone. She denies it is physical. (She can own this.)

9. Your friend tells you she was seen going to a hotel, and you verify she has lied to you about video guy. (On her.)

10. You became verbally and emotionally abusive to Wishes. You tear up a couple of rooms, but don't hit Wishes.

11. You begin posting on SI

12. You divorce Wishes.

13. You begin seeing OM's wife. The two of you are cruel to Wishes.

14. Wishes begins posting on TAM

Who was this abusive person you brought into Wishes' life when your marriage was still very good? How did he inflict emotional, physical and psychological abuse on her? Were you aware of it at the time? Why did you allow it? Did Wishes protest and stop the abuse? Did you?

It is beginning to sound like you became bored with your beautiful marriage, and you decided to "spice it up" by bringing more people in: aka swinging, or open marriage, or perhaps S&M?

This is where I realize I probably should not have opened this thread. I have created more problems than I have solved. I never expected to be answering questions that belong to Wishes. I will say that we did not open our marriage in any way.

These are incredibly perceptive questions but I do not think I have enough wisdom to answer them without making the situation worse. Let me just say, and hopefully it is enough. I encouraged her strongly, very strongly, to have a familial relationship with a close relative who had inflicted great damage on her in the past. Over a period of 8 months, this person continued the abuse to the point that Wishes was seeing a therapist, on meds and losing her health.

I just did not see it and although I didn't ignore her pleas for help, I basically reinforced that she could do this. She did, but she couldn't. She did come out of the situation damaged. I have no desire to speak in riddles. Hopefully this is enough to convince you that Wishes was not well at the time of her affair. I am the last to excuse her but I do have a little more understanding now.

Of course OMW hates Wishes. She played a role in ruining her otherwise bad marriage to lazyVideoGameBoy. I doubt that OMW is a "very good woman," or she wouldn't have schemed with you to hurt Wishes, but she would have taken the high road.

True, which also means that, I was not a very good guy for scheming with her to hurt Wishes. This is why I am here and also the reason I sincerely apologized to Wishes for my behavior.

Well, ya'll have a different sort of marriage if she does stuff that causes her permanent damage just because you tell her to. Maybe it's time to create a different kind of marriage, one where you make your own decisions and you each take responsibility for your own actions.

NP-

Never in her dreams did she ever think she would do that when they first started talking. But slowly this is what happens.

She got a second phone, and password it, yeah she did, its called per-meditated, and planning. If there was no intent she would have not needed the second phone and gone underground while labeling you as crazy possessive.

Find the post where I linked an article, believe it or not Edith and Wishes are similar.

Only difference is that all kids in his DG situation are grown up and gone, yours are small and 5 of them, on top of that Edith is bread winner.

Right now, Edith is in damage control mode once she gets comfy brace yourself.

Any WS that uses kids in this shit, is not salvageable.

Say what you will.....

I agree with Biggestmistake.

OMW is probably a very good person. She owes nobody nothing,e specially Wishes who some here forget it the OW to her. Further, OMW is a victim in this mess. DG may want to capitulate to his ex-W regarding responsibility. The other two are cheaters and brought this onto the ADULT CHILDREN !!!! (people forget they are adults and have their own minds). The one who I feel worse for all of a sudden is the OMexW. She didn't ask for this, she acted decisively and without excessive self blame and got dumped when exposed further to DG's kids who were somewhat complicit in gaslighting DG.

So I agree 100% Biggestmistake. Fortunately for OMW, she gets to wash her hands of it all

I agree IGOTTHIS

MrSpock

I think there is something very disturbing about this thread and the conduct here.

I agree with you completely. I did not see this thread progressing much past my opening post. My thoughts were to send a message to Wishes that it was ok to open up either on TAM or here. AS I said, I am a pretty big guy, I can handle it.

By trying to be very careful in my answers I am only raising questions and maybe creating problems. I think I should leave it to Wishes now.

Igotthis I was going to respond to your post but needed thinking time. I do not disagree with you.

Jduff

Othello Syndrome

She did not explain where she came up with Othello Syndrome.

If she has posted or does post her side to this on TAM or here, I will be back, if I, once again, decide I can be useful. I think we can all agree that I was not too useful this time around.

ataloss

Done gone, I suspect you are writing these posts but who is truly speaking to us, Done gone or Wishes?

I am, but I wish it was her.

annanew

Well, ya'll have a different sort of marriage if she does stuff that causes her permanent damage just because you tell her to. Maybe it's time to create a different kind of marriage, one where you make your own decisions and you each take responsibility for your own actions.

I should write a book.

I see now what you people have seen from the beginning, Wishes will have to speak for herself.

As I said earlier in this post, if I see an opportunity to help or assist her on this or that forum, I will, but, I probably should wait until I am asked.

thanks

[This message edited by DoneGone at 2:32 PM, March 28th (Monday)]

T/J

Further, OMW is a victim in this mess. DG may want to capitulate to his ex-W regarding responsibility.

DG was a victim too. What bothers me the most is that OBS was dating DG when she exposed to the adult children. She did so without his knowledge. That just doesn't sit right. Seems DG was abused again.

JMO

YMMV

T/J