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marji ( member #49356) posted at 2:42 PM on Friday, July 8th, 2016

CC, just a while ago wrote a huge post clicked wrong button and whoosh, all gone. Do not have time now to rewrite but will later.

Please know that you are not alone. And I have had exactly the same thoughts, feelings as you've described--especially being baffled about his ability to have lead that double life--come home as if nothing had happened and continued even 'the next day" after a lovely vacation, a holiday, birthday or, as you say, just a nice time.

But lots more to be said--especially about his seeming to act as if all was normal while you are dying inside--that part I think can be changed and in a decent enough way. But more on that later.

Will write more later--Im sorry you are havig to deal with post surgery stuff as well; you're dealing with two healings at the same time. But again, CC, you strike me as an amazingly strong person. This stuff can make us crazy and you are sounding very sane to me.

More later, love and hugs, marji

posts: 2230   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2015   ·   location: NYC
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 8:17 PM on Friday, July 8th, 2016

CC, a little more time now. Hope you are feeling not horrible.

I had written a great deal in the post I regrettably lost, but it basically said how exactly your feelings, thoughts, mirror my own. indeed, i've often used the word, "baffled," these past months as in how he could live those two lives simultaneously and in my H's case without feeling guilt, discomfort, struggle.

I was concerned though about your saying your H acted as if everything were normal and you were dying inside. I don't know if you meant that you don't express how you feel but if that is what you mean I think that may not be such a good idea. I know it helps me to express my feelings, anger, sadness, horror, shame, whatever. We are going on 11 months out and my H's reactions to my communications have changed; he is far less defensive that earlier on and that is a good thing. We also go together for counseling and our therapist repeatedly reminds my H of the huge destruction he has caused as he reminds him of what he needs to do to change and become a good partner. I am wondering if your H's IC is doing anything similar or if you have been present at some or all of your H's sessions.

CC, I gather from what you have said you are housebound now and recouperating from your surgery. I hope each day is getting better. I found it really helped me to get out and about and do some normal things--chat with neighbors, have lunch with friends. Perhaps you have some friends who can visit with you.

One other thing I did in the very early days was speak to some S-ANON partners. Their numbers were listed at their website and I spoke at length to several people. It helped to break the isolation. If you are unable to leave your house these days that might be something you find helpful.

But again, CC, you seem to be handling things well for so early into this. Hey, you found SI rather quickly and you express your feelings very well. Please do not despair. You will feel whole and healthy again. And there is absolutely no need for you to pick D, or R or even Wait--your job is to be nice and good to yourself. Don't know if you've ever tried but another thing you might find helpful is meditation. No links allowed on SI, but I found a program for $20 that's available on iTunes. I worked that program every day for 8 weeks.

And of course, I may be going out on a limb here, but I think your H loves you and wants to make amends. But he violated your relation dramatically and will have to work ever so hard to rebuild. Im just guessing your both in your thirties or forties and that gives you a lot of time to grow and change and have a good future. Seems impossible to imagine now, I know, but really and truly you will find life good again.

posts: 2230   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2015   ·   location: NYC
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 2:50 AM on Saturday, July 9th, 2016

Hello Marji,

Thanks for responding. Believe me I have spoken how I feel for sometime. As of the last few weeks I haven't said much about anything. I guess it's me. Actually I know it is me. I am thinking is I keep talking about this how do WE move on? I believe my H really does love me and is forever apologic. H is more open as your H is.

I have never been to one of his sessions. Maybe I need to attend.oh and to answer your question my dear friend, I am not in my 30s or 40s.a tad older. ;-) I think you and I are around the same age. (Just guessing) I thought I was doing well but thinking to much. I am writing things down to discuss with my IC.I am going see if I can mediate. I always wanted to. Well, Thanks for listening. Hugs

[This message edited by CrushedChic at 8:50 PM, July 8th (Friday)]

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 7602781
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 5:59 PM on Saturday, July 16th, 2016

Hi CC--just checking in to see how you are doing. Hope you're able to find something nice to see, hear, do, feel, or in any other way experience each day. Even for a little while.

This stuff is really really hard to live with, deal with, get on with but I think you are doing very well for such a short time. You and your H are each in IC; you found SI pretty much right away. You are able to articulate your thoughts and feelings so well.

CC you have said that prior to discovery you were happy in your marriage. Many of us were not. Some of us felt something was off; something strange or missing. Didn't have a clue as to what was going on, just a feeling that things were not so right. But you were happy with your relationship and IMO that really must count for a lot.

I know it can feel as though the whole past was a lie; that your H was not at all who you thought he was. I know I still feel at times that I was, that I am, living with a stranger--someone alien to me, my values, my feelings. But I know that it's all more complicated. So I try to hold on to what was good; to fond memories which now, sometimes feel tainted but with time start to look at least partly true and good. It sounds to me that you have a lot of positives in your relationship. So try to stay hopeful. You've been at this but a short time and things will get better. You said you stopped talking about it these past weeks. Maybe talk might help. I know it helps me and there are some studies that suggest the more talk the better. But of course that's an individual thing. Im sure you will find what works best for you.

[This message edited by marji at 1:50 PM, July 16th (Saturday)]

posts: 2230   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2015   ·   location: NYC
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234empty ( member #54165) posted at 12:41 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

pallid... what was the program you used to pull the deleleted messages, pictures and history from his iphone?

Marji...please share what this mindfulness program was that you used. It sounds like it really works!

I know links are not allowed so private message me if you will. Thanks!

me: BW
him: WH
dday: Feb 2016

posts: 176   ·   registered: Jul. 15th, 2016
id 7610149
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 1:16 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

Hi Marji,

I wish I could tell you that things are wonderful but unfortunately it is not going well. I try to move on but I must say that I am having a difficult time. This weekend was nit good at all. We had a huge argument. He states he's trying but I am not responding like I have in the past. ie caring, devoted,fun loving, romantic spouse. I was shocked. His last visit to one of those places was on his mother's 80th birthday. He went to her visit and stopped off at a place. That was in April. So 3 months later I am supposed to be all better? Wtf is he for real. I don't think that he gets the damage he has done. I thought he did but i don't think he realizes it.

When you stated

I know it can feel as though the whole past was a lie; that your H was not at all who you thought he was. I know I still feel at times that I was, that I am, living with a stranger--someone alien to me, my values, my feelings. But I know that it's all more complicated. So I try to hold on to what was good; to fond memories which now,

I feel the sams BUT I feel he ruined all our memories around special events. ie we went on a few trips only for me to find out the next day he had gone to visit the palor. Nit once but several special events. It's crushing!!! Also, the night my sisterpassed I called him and couldn't reach him. In investigating I found that he had visited this place. The list goes on this is just a few. So how does one hold on to the good memories knowing NOW that your husband has cheated on you. Not once but years! I don't get it? I told him this this weekend. He just look stoned faced and said I am trying. Well do I am but it seems easier for him. I was shocked when I felt in this argument or disagreement that made me feel that I was wrong. I was like wait a minute. He was turning everything on me. Pointing out all my faults. Bad enough I felt him going was my fault. I feel unattractive, not sexy and as you know I was so depressed. Well get what I am right back there. We even spoke of d.

** To answer your question Marji,

Our marriage was great. I had no idea. Our sex life was good, we vacationed. I gave it all. Now,its difficult to give someoneall that has had over 30 women givehim a HJ while he fondled her breasts. If anyone thinks it's do easy please give me the knowledge to move on. Triggers are horrible!! Anyway, I am a mess today. Not sure what's going happen. It's truly sad. Hugs

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 1:46 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

234 I believe we can only do private message after 50 posts. But the mindfulness program I'm using is the one from Jon Kabat Zinn. It's a four disc set that is available on iTunes as well. It includes a set of meditations as well as a gentle yoga regimen. This is Series 1. It's been very, very helpful.

posts: 2230   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2015   ·   location: NYC
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 1:53 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

CC I know exactly how you feel. We've been at this fir 11 months now and my H is just recently getting on the way to ...well getting it. But CC our MC has been on my H's case constantly. I do not know if we would have made it even this far if nit fir our counselors regular intervention. Have to go now but will write more later.

Try to do something for even a little relief today. Please stay here with SI. You will recover from this but yes, I know it's horrible and disgusting and your H really needs to get himself on a righter path. Hugs

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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 4:02 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

Thanks again Marji

I will look into it. Right now we both have our own I am going to look for a MC in our area. I feel like I am back to where I was when I found out. I feel like I am driving myself crazy. I know I probably sound pathetic. Anyway, thanks for Everything.

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 8:12 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2016

CC--I know what that feeling is like--when you start to feel a little better, more normal, more balanced and then boom--feels like week one again. But I think, even though I think I remember exactly what day one or week one was like, I don't know exactly because, hey, it's not that first day, that first week. It's only "like that time" so then I think even though feel horrible, even though it's "almost like that time" is isn't quite as bad--just really bad,

I know for me many, indeed, most of those really horrible moments came when my H was being defensive, insensitive, impatient; when he was minimalizing or rationalizing and even worse, lying.

We have not been doing traditional MC work as such; it's more like Im at my H's sessions. I sometimes interject; more often answer a specific question; often I initiate with some immediate issue though as weeks went on my H often did that himself, i.e. spoke about a way he had acted that was wrong. Our MC is not an equal-opportunity scolder. In his view it is my H who has created the huge damage by acting out in a horrible, devastating, unhealthy manner and my H who must work hard to change if he wants to rebuild the relationshp. It is our MC who has been working hard to get my H to work hard to stop feeling sorry for himself; to stop acting/speaking defensively.

It's all very complicated but what I'm trying to say is that I think it is very challenging for these partners who so repeatedly and mindlessly, uncaringly and, at least in my H's case, compulsively acted out, to now act in ways that are loving, and caring, and selfless but that is how they must act if they are to become good and healthy partners and if they have any chance of regaining the love and trust of the good and honest and innocent partners they so awfully betrayed. But that's a longwinded way of saying, I think I was not being realistic to hope or expect the partner who was so thoughtlessly betraying me weekly for over a decade, who acted without any feelings of guilt, who managed to fit his betrayal so neatly into his everyday life, to change over night into an ideal person and husband.

So now its 11 months later; he attends the rather grueling counseling sessions twice weekly; he reads everything suggested; he's attending SA meetings and speaking and he seems to be working toward extreme honesty; extreme caring and trying to learn about himself, to retrain himself in living and becoming a healthy and happier person. All a huge task.

And CC, that task is basically his. We can go together to the sessions; we can read together and talk. And we do. Like never before. But ultimately his work is his. My work is mine.

I have to keep working towards greater calmness; greater attention to the present. Greater attention to things that are not about H. I have to try to find ways to get out of the hole; to turn off the mind movies. To get on to what is nice, fun, beautiful, necessary, important, pleasant . . . .etc. I have to work on the positive.

CC have you and your H read MacDonald's How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair? I know that our H's didn't have a traditional affair but many things do apply. I don't remember how long your H was visiting the MPs, mine was a very long time and about 5 girls allowed touching as well. (That part has driven me more crazy than the other but that thought/image passes too. )So I think of it as his A with the parlors if not a person. But again, there must be NC, transparency, honesty. They must dig deep inside themselves to learn how and why they did what they did and how they could live their double life.

My H has not been diagnosed an SA because he did not and does not experience the thoughts/feelings the standard tests describe; but he did go continuously to strangers He did go to escape from unwanted realities and feeings and he did repeatedly engaged in impersonal and illegal activity that was against his so called values. He did act in secret though I guess that's true for all BSs. They don't come home saying, "honey, guess what AP and I did today." In any case, because my H has had extreme difficulty getting in touch with his "whys" and his feelings in general, our MC suggested he attend SA meetings and this time around I think it is helping him to stay focused on his character, his flaws and how he needs to change. Perhaps your H would benefit from that approach as well. That might be something to discuss with your ICs.

Surely not all men who regularly visit MPs are SAs. Escalation is one of criteria for judging but my H routinely did the same thing twice a week for ten years and I know of others similarly engaging. Personally, I would call that an addiction even if it doesn't meet the standard and so I read about SA betrayal along with the regular books on how to get beyond.

CC, there is a lot we can do to help ourselves heal from this horrible trauma we have been subjected to. Different things work for different BSs. I have not watched tv or a movie since last August. I have not listened to my previously favorite radio station since then either. On the other hand I take a long walk almost everyday--two or three hours and listen to calmning music all the time. I stay in touch with several of the amazing, smart, caring, wise and funny people I have met here on SI. i try to sleep decently if not perfectly each night. I try to eat things I enjoy each day. I worked the mediation program each and every day for 8 weeks --still use it for maintenance. And of course staying in close contact with friends and neighbors.

Lots and lots of talking with H. At times he became defensive. Now he knows he cannot be that way if he does not want to push me away--set things back. The talk led to finding out little lies. He admitted that he found it "easy" to lie but even that admission was a sign of his learning and growing. He now knows he must work hard to become some who will find it hard to lie--there is no wiggle room on that. So newer and clearer parameters.

Don't know if you have looked at the LTA section and the SA sections but I have found both relavant and helpful. A recent thread in the SA section asked about "consquences." My H knows if he becomes impatient, insensitive, defensive, etc. the consequence is that I become more distant and our days together unhappier.

CC, I know this is super long but I really want you to know that you will find your way to a decent reality again. And please remember that you have already experienced some decent hours, maybe even a day or two--perhaps a weekend or pleasant afternoon or evening so that when you feel bad again, something triggers, or H is doing less than he should, or it's just a thought, image, sound that creates a bad feeling or thought, that too will pass. That's what the roller coaster is about. But from everything I've heard and read, with time the bad feelings are less intense and of less duration. The reality will never be the same as before D-Day; the reality we thought we had, the one we assumed, was not a complete lie (though yes, i felt that way too--many of us do) but it surely was not the truth either.

What can be the whole truth is today and tomorrow.

As a wonderful friend reminded me, this is the hand we were dealt and this is what we must play the game with.

CC, my guess is, you have all the smarts, strength, heart, soul, wit and wisdom to play your hand wisely and well. The cards are in your hands and im thinking you even have the jokers. If after a good long time, say a year, you decide to quit playing, throw the hand in, then that will be your choice and your right. In the meantime, yes, some days will feel like stay; others like go. Some days very awful; others not too, too bad.

Meantime, i will share with you that today is our 35th anniversary. We will not do what we did for the past 10 years--visit the spot in Central Park where we married so many years ago. We always asked someone to take our pic there. I cannot bare to look at those pics anymore realizing that just a day or two before and just a day or two after he was at the parlor again.

So today we took a neighborhood walk and staying home. Well have dinner in a restaurant we never had dinner in before and there is no gift--no jewelry or candy but nice handwritten card.

Maybe next year will be better. And you can tell your H that I said he'd better start boning up on how to change, how to become a good person, good man, good husband. He's got to start making you and your feelings number one if he wants to ever regain at least some trust that will bring back your laughter, your affection, the light in your eyes that he must now know is the only real, and most valuable thing in his life.

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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 3:00 AM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2016

Hi Marj,

Happy Anniversary!!! I hope that you had a wonderful day today. I must say thank you for your time and input. It truly means alot to me. I appreciate your help and suggestions. I have the book now from McDonald. I also have told my H I wNt to attend his sessions with him. I informed him that I will be attending but not everyone. As you, I look at pictures and say omg he was at the MP right after he dropped me off. You know I told him this weekend that he hurt me so bay that I can't even be comfortable getting my nails done. It's difficult sad but true. I am trying move on but as I mentioned some days are good and so are bad. Thanks for being there! After I read the book, I will let you know. Thanks again!! Hugs

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234empty ( member #54165) posted at 12:19 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2016

Thanks Marji for the info! I checked it out and it looks good, had great reviews too. I think I will get the book as well since so many people recommend that as a starting point for meditation beginners. :)

me: BW
him: WH
dday: Feb 2016

posts: 176   ·   registered: Jul. 15th, 2016
id 7611091
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 1:16 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2016

The book is really, really, good. I have hard copy and electric and have used it a lot. It deals with all types of stress. The program was developed to help those suffering from all types of extreme trauma and used originally in a major northeastern hospital. Good luck to you. 😊

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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 2:56 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2016

Thanks Marji,

I got the audio and download it for my H. We shall be reading it this weekend. I was thinking if you yesterday. I was hoping you enjoyed your day. (Both) me, today I have a IC appointment. This should be a good one after the hell I had this weekend. Anyway, I have to go but I wanted you to know that I am grateful for this site. I am blessed to have met you. I can't begin to tell you how much you have helped me. Hugs...

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 9:22 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2016

Hi Marji,

I finally started to listened to the audible from McDonald. It truly is right on!! Thank you very much. It truly makes you think.

Thanks again!! Hugs

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
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234empty ( member #54165) posted at 3:10 AM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2016

CC How did you find out it was 30 times? Did you have evidence of all these visits or did he confess to all of it after getting caught? Is he still going to the AMP's? Do you feel his IC is working for him? I want my WH to take a poly too I just don't know how to find a reputable one that specializes in infidelity. Hoping you have better days ahead, we all need that!

me: BW
him: WH
dday: Feb 2016

posts: 176   ·   registered: Jul. 15th, 2016
id 7611950
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 3:21 AM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2016

Hi 2,

Unfortunately, after I found out due to investigating, my H was so smart he used his credit card. I saw the cash withdrawals, the names of the places. I even looked through the cellphone bill at the data and minutes. It tells you what your location is. He was working out of town so you can see what doesn't add up. Plus matched it to the dates on the credit card. As I looked my heRt sank. He is doing ok in IC. I want to attend his next appointment.

2, did your husband go to MP'S? The polys are expensive, just make sure you get checked for STD'S. Hugs!!!

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 7611956
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 9:03 PM on Monday, July 25th, 2016

Well this has been an interesting few weeks. My H and I have some good days and some bad. Last weekend we had a big argument over something childish. I didn't ask permission to use something of his. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. So I shot back with, well you didn't ask permissionto go and get a HJ for the last 5 years either. Hmmm I think that is worse. Atleast I did go outside our marriage. Back and forth and ended civil. This pass weekend we were talking about how long have owned our home. Then it hit me. Owned the house for 7 yrs and out of the 7 years he was faithful 2. Then I really started to think. Married for 8 years and faithful 3. So I said it to Him. Exactly like that. He then said, "I don't want to talk about this every weekend." I said, sometimes I need to talk about it. I told him before and he was like ok whatever you need. NOW it's I don't want to talk about it. I had him print out something someone suggested regarding recovery for me/us this weekend. He did print it out. Sometimes I feel like I am the one doing all the work and he brought this to our marriage. Just pissed as hell today. Thanks for listening. Hugs

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
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marji ( member #49356) posted at 11:53 PM on Monday, July 25th, 2016

CC, it can take a long, too long a time for them to stop being defensive, impatient, insensitive. You said that before he was OK to talk but not now. But the healing process can take years and he has to at least realize that. His IC should be guiding him that way. He needs to own what he did and that includes truly understanding the damage he has caused and truly wanting to change into a safe, loving, committed partner who acts in a mature, respectful, honest way. And that includes talk.

Now some are better than others at getting on the right track but even then there may be minor accidents, delays, mishaps. The ride may not be perfect. But he has to be willing to do all he can to be a better man. On a practical note, some studies have shown that the more talk the better the chances for R.

Our couple therapist has twice weekly reminded my H that he must act a certain way: non defensive, non minimizing, non evasive and totally honest if he wants the relationship to work. It's taken many months of this coaching but things seem better.

My H is also finding the 12 step SA group helpful for coming to grips with the reality of his betrayal . Lots of reading helps too to at least get a clear picture of what the WS needs to do if he hopes to repair and move on.

And of course as BSs we need to know what we want, deserve and are willing to stand for. Sounds like you have a pretty clear idea and that's a huge part of the battle.

posts: 2230   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2015   ·   location: NYC
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 CrushedChic (original poster member #53354) posted at 1:58 AM on Tuesday, July 26th, 2016

Hello Marji,

You know I totally agree with you.

On a practical note, some studies have shown that the more talk the better the chances for R.so true!! My IC agreed as well. He printed out for us How to Heal by Linda McDonald. I am going to start reading it. (As he will as Well) we shall see what this weekend brings.

posts: 77   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2016   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 7616831
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